Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Welfare Pays More Than Minimum Wage.  
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8908 posts, RR: 10
Posted (1 year 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5209 times:

http://dailycaller.com/2013/08/20/st...ays-more-than-work-in-most-states/



Another case of why we have a ton of people who will not work. I do not blame them, why should they? They are being screwed over in life, so they in turn screw the system. I have to wonder why anyone would be surprised. It is human nature to take advantage, as we see with corporations, and other business people. Notice this study is by the Cato Institute.


It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
196 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJetsgo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3083 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5199 times:

Interesting. With the exception of a few states it looks a lot like the 2012 electoral map.


Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8908 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5183 times:

Quoting Jetsgo (Reply 1):
Interesting. With the exception of a few states it looks a lot like the 2012 electoral map.

I would not doubt it. You cannot beat free stuff. The Republicans give out free stuff to the wealthy, and the corporations. The Democrats are wiser, they give out frees stuff to the voters. Who is smarter?



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8278 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5180 times:

That pretty well demonstrates a need to change minimum wage and employer costs. It is pure folly that employers are stuck with the financial burden of nanny care and that they need to use that relief to pay above the poverty line. Otherwise you are going to exceed this grow even higher.

User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8908 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5158 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 3):
That pretty well demonstrates a need to change minimum wage and employer costs. It is pure folly that employers are stuck with the financial burden of nanny care and that they need to use that relief to pay above the poverty line. Otherwise you are going to exceed this grow even higher.

I most certainly agree, something has to change. The system is rigged. Whose side is the winner and loser? We are all the losers, except the wealthy of course.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15744 posts, RR: 27
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5118 times:

Quoting WarRI1 (Thread starter):
I do not blame them, why should they?

I thought you were against greed? You dislike the fact that I think I should be able to keep more of the money that I actually earn rather than see it go to taxes, but you don't blame people for keeping themselves on welfare to make a few bucks more?



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineJoePatroni707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5105 times:

Makes a strong argument to eliminate or discontinue welfare.

User currently offlineusflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5097 times:

Quoting WarRI1 (Thread starter):
Notice this study is by the Cato Institute.

Red flag. Right-wing think tank with an agenda. I would take this study with a large grain of salt.


User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8908 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5087 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5):
I thought you were against greed? You dislike the fact that I think I should be able to keep more of the money that I actually earn rather than see it go to taxes, but you don't blame people for keeping themselves on welfare to make a few bucks more?

Distortion, you miss the point. When the government will pay you more for not working, because of the greed of corporations, I do not blame them. This will change only when the system of exploitation ends here, it will only get worse, so be ready to pay for it. I paid for 42 years, you have a long way to go. Enjoy the ride.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8908 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5085 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 6):
Makes a strong argument to eliminate or discontinue welfare.

It will not, cannot happen, we will always have welfare in this world of the haves and have not's. The Capitalist system breeds welfare. Thank goodness we have it.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8908 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5084 times:

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 7):
Red flag. Right-wing think tank with an agenda. I would take this study with a large grain of salt.

Correct, That is why I thought it wise to point that out. We know they are not always truthful in their articles, as all people with agendas are.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15744 posts, RR: 27
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5077 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 6):
Makes a strong argument to eliminate or discontinue welfare.

Time to cut off the junkie.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 8):
When the government will pay you more for not working, because of the greed of corporations, I do not blame them.

The problem is that the government overpays so you should blame them. You don't blame them because the reality conflicts with your ass backwards, "gimme free stuff" agenda.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 8):
This will change only when the system of exploitation ends here,

I pay the taxes of 1.6 people, partly so others can make money by not working, and you think it's the people getting free money who are being exploited?



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21634 posts, RR: 55
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5052 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 6):
Makes a strong argument to eliminate or discontinue welfare.

Or, better, to raise the minimum wage.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7401 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5016 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 11):

I pay the taxes of 1.6 people, partly so others can make money by not working, and you think it's the people getting free money who are being exploited?

Obviously you don't pay enough, you shopuld be paying the taxes of 2 people and be happy that you're helping those less fortuinate than yourself.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15744 posts, RR: 27
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4963 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 13):
Obviously you don't pay enough, you shopuld be paying the taxes of 2 people and be happy that you're helping those less fortuinate than yourself.

If I feel the need to help people, I'll help people. My (theoretical) millionth dollar is infinitely more important to me than some trailer dweller's first.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2603 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4946 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 11):
Time to cut off the junkie.

I have a friend that works in one of the social welfare offices here in Roanoke. Every once and a while I will go down there and meet him for lunch. I am always amazed at the line-up of pregnant women waiting to get in.
He says they just don't want to work, so they get pregnant and come get the freebie coupons. Multiply this by millions and you can see why the system is broken! Badly! They just keep on having babies and those of us who pay taxes keep on paying the tab. What fun!  



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4941 times:

You have to be careful with studies like this one.

This is the fellow who identifies Social Security, the Veterans Administration, military retirement and civilian federal pensions as 'entitlement' programs and includes them in his figures.


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4927 times:

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 7):
Quoting WarRI1 (Thread starter):
Notice this study is by the Cato Institute.

Red flag. Right-wing think tank with an agenda. I would take this study with a large grain of salt.

   Not only right wing think tank, but "Daily Caller" is openly to the right itself. I think a fair bit of salt is required.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 16):
You have to be careful with studies like this one.

This is the fellow who identifies Social Security, the Veterans Administration, military retirement and civilian federal pensions as 'entitlement' programs and includes them in his figures.

  



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4626 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4927 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 15):
Badly! They just keep on having babies and those of us who pay taxes keep on paying the tab. What fun!

So what's your choice? Cut off welfare? Abortion, Eugenics?


http://scientopia.org/blogs/authorit...doesnt-pay-more-than-minimum-wage/

People do have an incentive to work under minimum wage, especially under Cato's Normal family scenario.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineSmittyone From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4909 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 18):
So what's your choice? Cut off welfare? Abortion, Eugenics?

Posing the question this way seems to hold the rest of us hostage to the consequences of a few people's poor decisions, doesn't it? I don't have a complete answer, but providing a financial incentive for the kind of behavior that we don't want to see (planned or unplanned pregnancy without a way to support the child) is not much of a solution either.

Would this kind of pregnancy - if it is indeed the issue that it is being presented to be - become less common if people knew that their only option other than starvation would become giving the child up for adoption?

That may sound hard hearted but I don't think it's any more cruel than having kids that you're not in a position to raise properly in the first place. Or any more cruel than taking money from one person - for which they have surrendered the most precious and finite resource they have (time) - and giving it to someone else under these particular circumstances.

I understand that accidents happen but I'm responding to the premise that some segment of society is deliberately having children in order to collect a check. I have no data on how widespread that practice actually is. I'm not against welfare in general because I recognize that shit happens to good people and our economic system isn't perfect. I am against people gaming the system if that is what is happening.


User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4626 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4900 times:

Quoting Smittyone (Reply 19):
Posing the question this way seems to hold the rest of us hostage to the consequences of a few people's poor decisions, doesn't

No, it is a serious question. The fact that you feel like a "Hostage" is because you have thought very little of the solutions. I have grown sick and tired of folks bashing policy without offering alternatives. There is a reason their are policies, because the alternatives are not as palatable.
As the rest of your argument shows, we can't fix stupid, and some solutions we have to deal with.

Quoting Smittyone (Reply 19):
and giving it to someone else under these particular circumstances.

And who would take them? And at what cost?



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8543 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4868 times:

Quoting Jetsgo (Reply 1):

Interesting. With the exception of a few states it looks a lot like the 2012 electoral map.

Yeah, but on average, blue states are net payers into the Fed govt and red states are, on average, provided welfare provided by blue states. If you look at the govt purely as a transferer of wealth.

Quoting Smittyone (Reply 19):
but providing a financial incentive for the kind of behavior that we don't want to see (planned or unplanned pregnancy without a way to support the child) is not much of a solution either.

Of course not. The average human being is incredibly smart. If you pay people to fail, then failure becomes their job. It's how they make their living. And apparently welfare people in Hawaii for example live a non-poor middle class lifestyle.

When you properly account for subsidized rent & prison costs, I believe many "poor" people consume far more than I do. And that means I work and study hard purely for fun... and because it's the social norm for my peer group.

[Edited 2013-08-22 08:13:17]

User currently offlineSmittyone From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4848 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 20):
No, it is a serious question. The fact that you feel like a "Hostage" is because you have thought very little of the solutions. I have grown sick and tired of folks bashing policy without offering alternatives. There is a reason their are policies, because the alternatives are not as palatable.
As the rest of your argument shows, we can't fix stupid, and some solutions we have to deal with.

No, I feel like a hostage because there seems to be a presumption that children born for the purpose of collecting welfare is my/our problem to solve, as opposed to the parents' problem. Again, the specific point I was responding to was "people who game the system by being rewarded for having children (either carelessly or intentionally) that they can't support."

I think I have a right to bash the current solution without providing an alternative because I'm not getting paid to do so, unlike a whole lot of people who are. But even so I have considered it so here is my thought:

- If you have one or more children when you apply for welfare, they 'count'. Because bad things happen and new parents can find themselves between a rock and a hard place. I get that.
- Additional children born while on welfare do not result in additional benefits. If you're getting a check from me I get input on your reproductive choices.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 20):
And who would take them? And at what cost?

Like I said, I don't know what the actual scope of this problem is (ie how many kids really are being born for 'bennies' - the whole issue could likely be a strawman) so it's hard to say how many kids we are talking about. But if this issue is real then I reject the idea that even the most progressive/enlightened society has an obligation to continually cater to people who are deliberately or negligently creating problems. At some point people have to feel some discomfort in order to change. If that means we need to set up an orphanage to meet the short term needs of the innocent kids at greater cost I'd prefer that to perpetuating the parents' behavior via individual payouts.


User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4626 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4836 times:

Quoting Smittyone (Reply 22):
At some point people have to feel some discomfort in order to change.

That change may not be to your benefit. That change could be bad. It could be crime.

Withholding "welfare" will not stop people that do not know any better from being better.
Sure their are some folks that are on welfare through bad luck, but many are there due to abuse, lack of education, and cognitive impairments. Not everything can be changed by withholding welfare. Especially since your decision harms the most innocent person in the whole mess. The kids.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11657 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4833 times:

I should probably add this disclaimer to all of my posts: I am of the opinion that there are right-wingers who are out there to simply stir the pot and make as much money and noise for the very very wealthy and/or Christianity and there are Republicans who are educated and make decisions based on what they read from multiple sources.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 2):
The Republicans give out free stuff to the wealthy, and the corporations. The Democrats are wiser, they give out frees stuff to the voters. Who is smarter?

Considering the wealthy right-wing are rigging the voting...

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 11):
I pay the taxes of 1.6 people, partly so others can make money by not working, and you think it's the people getting free money who are being exploited?

I am going to suggest this again to you:

Live like the majority of people in this country. Work two or three low wage jobs because that's all you can get with your college degree in computer science or accounting or whatever.

Also, you sound like welfare lasts forever. It does not.

And, one last point: the right-wing lumps food stamps and Medicade in with welfare. They are three different things.



Life in the wall is a drag.
25 bmacleod : Sadly I'm just another statistic whose Employment Insurance ran out after 9 months. Tried to avoid applying for welfare but bills; increasing rent and
26 connies4ever : How dare you bring Grover Norquist into this discussion ! For shame !
27 Smittyone : Well maybe but maybe not. I'm talking about a pretty specific case, not randomly ripping the sippy cup out of kids' mouths because we're cheap bastar
28 Post contains links Fr8mech : If this is true, it tells me that we pay too much in welfare. Look, we have gotten ourselves into a deep mess. People are incentivized to not work. Wh
29 casinterest : Not much to be honest, but at the same time why do the cops always try so hard to prevent someone trying to comit suicide? You have to try , even if
30 seb146 : Can we please define "welfare" before this thread goes any further? It is and it is. BTW, people actually do work and receive food stamps and Medicade
31 connies4ever : BMac- Sorry to read of your travails. But keep in the forefront of your mind, you are NOT a statistic. Is there a possibility through Service Canada
32 Smittyone : Well I suppose you are right, there. Definitely need to find a way to cut out the nonsense with the 'welfare kids' if that is what is happening thoug
33 bmacleod : Thanks for responding, I have an interview next week for a training program (environmental engineering) sponsored by the NovaScotia (provincial) gove
34 Fr8mech : Really? Where? The Obama Administration is actively promoting welfare. The Obama Administration has gutted the Clinton welfare reform. Speaking of wh
35 Post contains images Superfly : If I'm not mistaken, men do not qualify for welfare. Is that correct? In order for a women to receive welfare, she has to get knocked up. If so, did a
36 casinterest : I agree with Superfly on this. Can't take away personal responsibility here, otherwise they won't learn. the real issue are the ones that are on Welf
37 Post contains images connies4ever : That's good to hear ! Keep me posted (by IM if you prefer).
38 Fr8mech : No, it is our problem because then these same folks and their sponsors in congress will say that the money they currently get is not enough. Listen,
39 casinterest : Sure, but what if it was a good week? A splurge here or there is not a bad thing if you are saving overall and living within the constraint of the Fo
40 Post contains images Ken777 : Hard to call that level of poverty as greed. There are a lot of people in this country at the bottom of the economic scale that would love a job that
41 FlyPNS1 : But there aren't enough higher paying jobs to transition to. Not everyone can be a doctor/lawyer/engineer...or even a plumber/mechanic. Yes, some peo
42 SIA747Megatop : I think minimum wages should be lowered if not abolished all together. Low wages mean lower costs which keeps industry and manufacturing local. Pensio
43 lewis : So basically become Singapore. I don't know whether Americans would like that, but as someone residing here I'd say no thank you, if I wanted any of
44 flymia : Assuming this is true or even taking 20% off the numbers of the higher ranked states these numbers are insane. Assistant State Attorneys in Florida do
45 BMI727 : I don't have to and I'll explain why. I didn't screw around too much. I didn't decide I needed to go smoke instead of go to class. I didn't get smash
46 WarRI1 : A noble idea, sometimes abused, but absolutely, positively needed when disaster strikes. As I said before, to me welfare is a product of Capitalism.
47 Ken777 : I believe that normally both men and women qualify, but don't assume that a healthy guy will get it as easily as a very pregnant woman. If you want t
48 Superfly : What about a healthy pregnant woman?
49 rfields5421 : His numbers include every Social Security recipient as 'welfare' from an 'entitlement program' and the 'value' of Medicare they receive as a second e
50 seb146 : I like your definition, but it says nothing about what goes into it. The right loves to hate "welfare" and puts so many things under that umbrella. I
51 Superfly : You mean taught by a school system that's always in debt? You have some teachers that don't have a basic understanding of personal finance. Hold on a
52 seb146 : According to some, defunding is the best way to make an education system.
53 BMI727 : Who? Names and quotes please.
54 N1120A : Exactly. The reason welfare is more than the minimum wage is because the minimum wage is not a living wage.
55 MD11Engineer : Not just this, but, as our HR chief said once to a gifted unlicenced mechanic, when he denied this guys application for a programme which would get h
56 Mike89406 : "Better yet, go into the military for four years or more. You can work your tail off in the military and, even then, you might not get what you want.
57 Post contains links Fr8mech : And, to quote Judge Smalls "...the world needs ditch diggers, too." I'm not trying to be flippant, but there you have it. Not everyone can be in a hi
58 Post contains links casinterest : Bbut a can of brown mustard compared to the price per poind for chicken/pork is miniscule , unless you are some kind of mustard fiend, in which case
59 Fr8mech : I'm just about positive that Kroger has a store brand lean beef. I'll check later. The point is, that we need to encourage (force) SNAP, WIC , whatev
60 seb146 : Better not let people like BMI hear that kind of talk. Those people you describe are lazy and ignorant and left wing voters to people like BMI. We wo
61 Superfly : So the generic store brand of a pound of sugar is sold out and the only sugar left is C&H sugar which is a name brand. You're saying that these p
62 L410Turbolet : It's always someone else's fault is it?
63 usflyer msp : I concur. That is absurd. On a policy note, I think that is overly intrusive into poor families' domestic lives. What they eat is their own business.
64 Fr8mech : They could always come back and get the generic, it's what I do when the store is out of the brand I like. But, 10 cents isn't that much of a big dea
65 Flighty : Welfare should be an opportunity to get job experience splitting rocks, excavating roads and emptying bedpans of the elderly and profoundly handicappe
66 Post contains links casinterest : A lot of people on welfare already have jobs, or they are incapable of work. Most have families, and then what would you do with the kids? http://www
67 darthluke12694 : Let's see if I have this straight. You're going to force people to come back and get the generic brand. So you would rather have people pay for the g
68 Post contains images Superfly : He also thinks it's his right to poke his nose in people's personal finances if they are considered for a job offer. We're not talking about top leve
69 Post contains images Fr8mech : Yeah, that is a little too far, but I'm being a bit outrageous to make a point. The preferred purchase should always be the cheapest. If a store sell
70 Ken777 : That depends on the state I guess. Generally school systems get funding from property taxes or through voters voting them money in one way or another
71 darthluke12694 : Wasn't sure if you were trying to make a point or not. Glad you were. The only problem with that is creating a system that can do that. That will bec
72 seb146 : I know I could never survive military. I never tried. However, I like having a paycheck, socialization, and eating. All of us do. Some of us get a do
73 Post contains images Superfly : Which will not be determined in a credit report. We went over this already. Sounds like you were dealing with a crook. Are you kidding? On just about
74 Fr8mech : I'm not a computer type, but I don't see where that would be a real hurdle. Like I said earlier, Kroger is able to match the digital coupon on my pho
75 rfields5421 : Unfortunately he thinks he is in a 40 year career field - and will be shocked to learn in 20 years his training and skills are considered out of date
76 seb146 : They do. When I go to any supermarket, it says on my receipt how much I could have paid for using EBT/food stamps. I have been in line next to someon
77 Post contains images Ken777 : That depends on the service you choose. I went into the Navy because of the "See The World" nature of the service. Boot Camp was not really that phys
78 ouboy79 : Reading through this one comment stuck out... This was the minimum wage from 1981 to 1990. So if we look at the inflation rate over time that would me
79 Mike89406 : Society needs them all without them where would we get our fast food, yard work, space programs and so on. You don't need to join the military to be
80 Post contains links JoePatroni707 : Interesting event in the USA today, that fast food workers in 58 cities have gone on strike demanding a minimum wage of $15.00 per hour. IMHO thats wa
81 Post contains images WarRI1 : This does not surprise me, nor millions more if asked. Let the market decide how much a job is worth. Evidently not much as we can see. Minimum wages
82 seb146 : Some people have no choice. Some people take that only job because they need to feed their family. Knowing full well they will be yelled at, be assau
83 Mike89406 : Which is why i followed up the sentence with...Not everyone is going to well off or successful as the next person. A person can better they're situat
84 seb146 : Yes. No matter how hard that some people work, they will just never get half as much as the other guy. Problem is, in this day and age, inflation wil
85 ouboy79 : I just wonder why a job I started in the late 90s making $9/hr is still paying people $9/hr starting when inflation would make that nearly $13 by now
86 Mike89406 : Ok let's put it this way. They get the what they want then the dollar value will drop. That 15/hr would have nearly the same buying power as what they
87 Post contains links Dreadnought : No, Inflation happens when the government spends more than it can afford, and prints money to cover the difference. And to top it all off, the US gov
88 seb146 : Says the person who didn't have a problem when it happened 2001-2009. I am asking this as an academic: What about Safeway vs. WinCo? Union vs. employ
89 Dreadnought : Says the person who makes stuff like this up when he's against the corner. Show me a single post in the past 10 years where I have said that GWB was
90 FlyPNS1 : While I agree 2% is a bit low, anyone claiming a 10% inflation rate has no credibility whatsoever either.
91 SmittyOne : Work (which currency represents) currently being done or to be done in the future is more valuable to a society than work already done in the past. T
92 Aesma : In France (and other European countries) salaries roughly follow inflation, it is even mandatory for the minimum wage (and all wages in Belgium I bel
93 casinterest : The money was not printed just to cover overspending. It was printed to get interest rates low and stay low so that employment and the economy would
94 RomeoBravo : Not that i'm in favour of the minimum wage or welfare but the negative income tax cures the problem of the welfare trap described in the OP. It also d
95 RomeoBravo : Artificially low interest rates do not cause economic recovery, they cause bubbles. In fact low interest attempting to suppress the .com bubble are w
96 casinterest : Before they can cause a bubble, they can cause a rise, that coupled with the proper monetary policy will keep thinks from becoming a bubble. Just as
97 RomeoBravo : Fundamentally disagree there. The government can't plan the price of money any better than it can plan the price of cars, bread or housing. The marke
98 Post contains images seb146 : What are we defining "welfare" as? It looks like some think they are huge cash payments made to people who are living high on the hog but not working.
99 Aesma : Especially considering that the system we currently have was created by the US for that explicit purpose, with commercial banks creating money.
100 Post contains images PSA53 : Or even better.Lower Welfare! STOP THE DEPENDENCE!You'll always will be poor. There it is ! That says it. Some of you guys keep blaming the wealthy!
101 WarRI1 : Exactly! Think about the correlation of the two. I applaud your example. Pay more, less welfare, a living wage. Not rocket science, or is it?[Edited
102 seb146 : That would be great. If the poor people had access to getting their hands on money through work. When the poor work, they spend their money on things
103 WarRI1 : I just drove through the poor section of Providence today. A fast food joint on every corner, the big chains. They sure know how to exploit the needy
104 PSA53 : Whoa,admit it! A lot of misuse of spending on those same, latest and greatest technology that poor people ALSO spend on!.So,that is not all accurate
105 seb146 : Could you write that so we can understand it? I think you are trying to infer that people on welfare actually have the purchasing power to buy things
106 WarRI1 : •Failure to report income or money received. •Failure to report the return of the absent parent to the home. •Failure to report a child out of t
107 seb146 : Which the state has a record of. Believe me, in California, Oregon, and Washington, they let the people know and they do something about it! Again, t
108 Ken777 : The ,minimum wage should be above the poverty line. Until employers pay that then we all see our tax dollars to go food stamps, welfare, etc. It's ca
109 RomeoBravo : Why stop at the living wage? Why not make it a millionaire wage? Then we'd all be rich right? It isn't corporate welfare at all. Businesses have no o
110 seb146 : And if the gays get the right to marry, then people will be marrying their dog and then marrying their child. We kinda do. We could actually be payin
111 Mir : I'd say it should be at the poverty line, no more and no less. And as the poverty line moves, the minimum wage should move with it. -Mir
112 Post contains links Dreadnought : Poverty line for a single person household is $11,490. http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/13poverty.cfm Assuming 50 work weeks at 40 hours per week, that wo
113 Mike89406 : To summarize, I realize not everyone can succeed or make more than minimum wage. I said that one way or another from my first post and on... Some peo
114 WarRI1 : Even though we speak different languages at times, we agree on the main points. The prevailing attitude most read on here. Cheap Labor, not me. Cheap
115 WarRI1 : Why? As far as I can tell, most people are just trying to pay bills and survive. I am one of them. We leave the greed to others.
116 Post contains links WarRI1 : http://digital.olivesoftware.com/Olive/ODE/ProJo/ Some may enjoy the Al Lewis article, "Let them Eat Burgers" in the Wall Street Journal. Scroll to Pa
117 WarRI1 : Just a few numbers for people about burger workers pay which is minimum wage mostly. McDonalds pleading poverty. along with others about raising wages
118 Dreadnought : While I agree that those salaries are excessive (well, not all of it is salary - most is in the form of stock options. Actual cash compensation is cl
119 Post contains images Ken777 : A lot of people earning a moderate income have problems with financial budgeting. One reason why I believe it should be part of the last 6 years of s
120 Post contains images Dreadnought : Ah, so anyone making over $100K now is filthy rich and needs to be pulled down. It used to be millionaires and billionaires. Then it was $450K and ov
121 seb146 : HUGE red flag. HUGE call for BS here. Washington state minimum wage is $9. Not much in Seattle but a fortune in Walla Walla. The places I shopped and
122 mad99 : I know a couple in California who adopted a 12 yo child.. She's now 16 and pregnant! So the 'father' is 17 and failing high school (will not attend th
123 Dreadnought : And there you go. I also know a few "benefit families" as you call them, and you are right - from what I've seen, it's mainly mothers who are actuall
124 mad99 : Yep So what do you do? The one who will suffer is the new born through no fault of its own. Some people are proposing no increase in benefit after 1
125 Dreadnought : How about mandatory sterilization after the first child receives benefits. I think that's fair. Don't have kids unless you can afford to have them. T
126 Flighty : I think most everyone is capable of separating garbage into categories, unclogging sewers, plowing a field etc. Make the kids work as well, or not ea
127 mad99 : Probably not going to happen Here in spain you get benefit for two years max then nothing. Here they keep lowering the amount and duration one can ge
128 Aesma : According to the Big Mac Index a Big Mac is 4,56$ in the US, and 4,66$ in the eurozone. Those are averages, I can attest that in France it's usually 3
129 mad99 : I checked Four months per year worked so after six years of work one is entitled to two years. I think you get close to 100% of your pay the first yea
130 RomeoBravo : Great and France has 11.5% unemployment vs the US's 7.4%? Terrific. And of course comparing minimum wage values doesn't say anything about what peopl
131 seb146 : People currently working for minimum wage ARE contributing to the economy. They are buying things. Even if the job is listed as "unskilled" they actu
132 Dreadnought : You elitist prig. The vast majority of those 10% have had jobs as I have when we were young. Starting at mowing and trimming lawns, sacking groceries
133 RomeoBravo : But who would start an oil company if they weren't allowed to generate profits? You wouldn't be able to get oil at all if that were the case. Yes, it
134 WarRI1 : What does one need with 500k every week? What is the function of that salary? Where is the morality of that salary, while people have nothing, no hop
135 WarRI1 : I would say, exactly the same.
136 WarRI1 : And it will continue to get worse, ignorance, poverty, low wages, classic examples of the torn fabric of our society now. Show me the fairness in our
137 WarRI1 : We do and have by the millions, do you see things getting better?
138 WarRI1 : I was, and I am sure millions more were taught that greed was not good. That exploitation was evil. To look in the mirror everyday and say, I like my
139 WarRI1 : Ok. I agree, you earned your pay by hard work. Value received for work given. Do you think anyone truly earns 520k per week? Can anyone really do tha
140 FlyPNS1 : I think you'd be surprised at how few of today's top 10% have had jobs like that. While it was true in the past, most of today's wealthy were wealthy
141 Dreadnought : That is pretty extreme, and I would support a very high income tax rate (say, on $10 million per year upwards) to dissuade that sort of thing - inclu
142 WarRI1 : You miss the point. Nobody would care, that is how the system has gone off the rails. there is no wash down. It goes up to a relative few, as we can
143 WarRI1 : [quote=WarRI1,reply=134]Where is the morality of that salary, while people have nothing, no hope, no jobs, no pride. Does a pig feeding at the trough
144 RomeoBravo : What you are describing is modern day america. Not quite sure how you can tie any of the above to the minimum wage though. The minimum wage causes po
145 Mir : I should have specified the 3-person household poverty line. That works out to just about $9.75/hour, which you could round up to $10/hour if you wan
146 seb146 : No. You are saying "let's start everyone off at a million dollars and see what happens" which is akin to a slippery slope argument. I say don't let t
147 mad99 : Sorry, i think you missed the point. These people do not want to work! The 'father' can't find a job and one of the reasons is he looks like a gang m
148 seb146 : They do. If they did not want to work, they would not fill out applications!!! The smart ones figure it out. Believe me. I have seen people who dress
149 RomeoBravo : I'm not saying start everyone off at a million. If the minimum wage was a million pounds 99% of people would have no job. Or do you actually think if
150 seb146 : I don't understand. People who have no choice should suffer? People who can not find work in the field they were educated in should go without? Peopl
151 RomeoBravo : Where have a i suggested people should suffer, i genuinely don't know you are blathering on about? The reason they do it is because they are allowed
152 Ken777 : COme in, you're smarter than that and you understand the split between the top and the bottom. But for folks making minimum wage I guess they will se
153 Dreadnought : Actually, yes. According to his autobiography, he worked summers on an oil rig for Circle Drilling Co. out of Lake Charles, LA. Same type of thing I
154 RomeoBravo : It doesn't. There is only one thing that pushes wages up, competition for employees, ergo supply and demand.
155 FlyPNS1 : Hardly. Modern day America (while far from perfect) isn't even close to the levels of poverty experienced 100 years ago. It's quite easy...because th
156 RomeoBravo : And do you think that is due to the economic model or due to the technological level of the time? (I notice you have conveniently ignored me pointing
157 windy95 : Send the illegals packing and we will see a sharp rise in wages.
158 FlyPNS1 : I think it's a bit of both. Certainly, the technology of the time didn't lend itself to great wealth, but at the same time the economic model of the
159 RomeoBravo : No it isn't, it's entirely due to technology. If we had the same economic model as we did back then we'd be richer. GDP per capita in 2000 was 7 time
160 FlyPNS1 : A few people would be richer no doubt, but the overall population....not so much. And of course, when the economy crashes routinely and our banking s
161 WarRI1 : It worked once, not so now, as we can see by the title of this thread. I was raised with those principles, they could work for many more millions the
162 WarRI1 : Ridiculous, have you not noticed the world population count? Have you not noticed the automation in the workplace? Have you not noticed the numbers o
163 Ken777 : They already have their armies - of lawyers, accountants, financial institutions, PR teams. Just look at how W kept cutting taxes while waging war on
164 WarRI1 : I agree, we are not here forever, but we do worry about those we leave behind. I agree, that is probably our only hope, that the have not's will band
165 seb146 : The corporations will tell the legal workers that they have not choice but to work for the lowest wage. Mark my words. AAAAAAAANNNNNDDDD.... you are
166 mad99 : It will go on. Bombardier is building a factory in Morocco to build aircraft parts, i think wire harnesses and they have one in Mexico. JObs that any
167 RomeoBravo : Sorry what name calling? You have failed to to distinguish between a (known answer) question and a statement. This led me to believe you aren't educa
168 RomeoBravo : Sorry what name calling? You have failed to to distinguish between a (known answer) question and a statement. This led me to believe you aren't educa
169 WarRI1 : I have a conscience, not a problem. I do not like buying goods made by slave wages. I do not like buying goods that screw workers out of a living her
170 Ken777 : There is a lot of wealth in Hong Kong and a solid middle class. One reason might be because employers are not carrying the burden of employer nanny c
171 RomeoBravo : So you'd rather these people had no income at all? I wish you'd stop making yourself out to be the king of compassion you're not. They haven't screwe
172 Mir : A lack of a minimum wage would also screw workers out of a living. Demand may be infinite, yet resources are not, and thus someone is always going to
173 WarRI1 : Gee! I never thought of myself that way. I am glad you noticed that I have some compassion, now the King, that is a stretch. I only strive for compas
174 WarRI1 : A worthy answer to someone who seems an advocate of no compassion as far as I can tell.
175 WarRI1 : A little side note. 17.6 million households in the US had trouble feeding their families last year according to a government. report. This is in the P
176 Post contains images RomeoBravo : How? Let's just run a scenario through here a minute. Employee wants a job, he's willing to work at 4 dollars an hour. Employer wants an employee, he
177 PSA53 : I'm getting more respect for Bill Clinton when he tried to overhaul welfare.I remembered when at the last DNC convention,Clinton spoke about getting p
178 Mir : And then someone else comes along who's willing to do the job for 2 dollars an hour. The first person must now either have his pay cut in half or los
179 RomeoBravo : Even in this imaginary 3 person equation, that's not being screwed out of a living, that's being out-competed - Pan Am weren't screwed out of being a
180 WarRI1 : There are millions and millions working for less than 2 bucks an hour. Our former jobs here, now there. Your shining ideal (job competition) does not
181 Mir : Yet there are people (plenty of them) who will be making that 5 dollars an hour, and they'll be better off - you conveniently leave them out of the p
182 Post contains images RomeoBravo : Please don't accuse me of doing something i blatantly have't done. How would they do that? If they tried to charge 2 dollars an hour, their workforce
183 Mir : You speak only of the drawbacks of the minimum wage, not of the benefits (which do exist). Not only that, but you use that tactic to make it seem lik
184 RomeoBravo : As i say, please don't accuse me of that because i haven't. The MW bring a small benefit to some at the expense of a major loss to others. If i stole
185 FlyPNS1 : It already exists. Companies like Wal-Mart and McDonalds already have a cartel on low-skilled employees. In theory, that's true, but not in reality.
186 Post contains links RomeoBravo : *sigh* Source? It's true in reality too. Whilst some people do spend their whole lives on low wages, most go up the payscale significantly. Not that t
187 WarRI1 : Your theory. Theory. Idea formed by speculation. You speculate, no hard fast rules, as economics are. Designed to fit someone's theory of economics.
188 Post contains links WarRI1 : http://wallstreetpit.com/9524-most-i...ic-theories-over-the-past-century/ Just a list of economic theories, take your pick. Not an exact science for s
189 RomeoBravo : It's not speculation at all. It's based upon the completely and utterly proven law that the more expensive things are the less people will buy them.
190 Post contains images PSA53 : Yes.And welfare,too.The government(s) needs to combine these by offering incentives to work..Example: California minimum wage is $8.00,city of SFO is
191 WarRI1 : A perfect example. This does not apply to the rich. They always buy. One of the ways to get rich, has always been to exploit people, in one form or a
192 Mir : It brings a small benefit to a lot of people, actually. And it doesn't hurt that many - there's no shortage of minimum wage jobs in the US, so it's n
193 Post contains links Dreadnought : Wow. I am reminded of what former USSC Justice Sandra O'Connor said the other day. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/09/0...ndra-day-oconnor.html#.UivV
194 WarRI1 : [quote=PSA53,reply=190]But right now,welfare/social programs in it's present form is a cancer growing threatening to make the US 3rd world. I cannot d
195 WarRI1 : I also agree with Sandra Day O' Conner. I do not portray myself as an economic expert. I most certainly cannot argue against your points. I agree wit
196 WarRI1 : I agree, I took my grandchildren to McDonalds today. I did not see a happy bunch. I did not see a bunch of kids either, I saw middle aged, and kids w
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Obama Wants To Raise Minimum Wage Part 2 posted Sun Feb 17 2013 21:15:29 by jetblueguy22
Cities Grow More Than Suburbs, 1st Time In 100 Yr posted Thu Jun 28 2012 08:20:21 by kngkyle
Mexico Killings More Than Double In 2008! posted Mon Dec 8 2008 21:30:15 by QXatFAT
Scots Drink More Than The English - Survey Finds posted Fri Sep 26 2008 07:13:49 by Nighthawk
What Is Minimum Wage In Your Area? posted Fri Aug 1 2008 17:09:46 by CAP2008
Oil Prices Plunge More Than $9: Msnbc posted Tue Jul 15 2008 08:27:54 by PNQIAD
More Than 2 Million Turks Protest Against AKP posted Sun Apr 29 2007 19:41:25 by Beaucaire
Man Found Dead In Home With More Than 100 Guns posted Wed Mar 7 2007 18:44:00 by Luv2fly
Here's What Happens When The Minimum Wage Goes Up posted Mon Feb 12 2007 02:10:15 by Halls120
Minimum Wage Bill To Lower Wages In 7 States posted Thu Aug 3 2006 01:53:50 by NWDC10