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New IPhone To Be Announced 10th Sept.Cheaper Model  
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26957 posts, RR: 58
Posted (12 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5809 times:

So its new iPhone time again. Reports are of a upgraded iPhone 5 called 5S and a lower budget model called the 5C. Apple need to compete with the many good and cheaper companies and appeal more to people in China and India.

New additions are said to be ''Finger print'' security and a better camera.

Apple iPhone 5S and iPhone 5C landing in UK on 20 September

http://www.itproportal.com/2013/09/0...-5c-landing-in-uk-on-20-september/

177 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinea321luke From United States of America, joined Aug 2013, 125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (12 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5801 times:

I'm patiently awaiting the 5S myself. I felt that the original 5 just wasn't enough to get me to upgrade.

Of course, I'm still using my BlackBerry Bold 9650, so Apple needs to hurry it up.  

Who here plans to get the 5S or 5C?



Planes, Trains, and Cars... Heaven :)
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26957 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (12 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5790 times:

Quoting a321luke (Reply 1):
I'm patiently awaiting the 5S myself. I felt that the original 5 just wasn't enough to get me to upgrade.

Thats actually my dilemma this time around. Im very happy with my iPhone 5 and I had the 4/4S. Until I see all the specs I am not making a decision. The cheaper 5C model is out of the question for me as its aimed for the intro market it seems. I would have to be getting a whole lot of new features that I actually needed to bite this time around. Mind you I said that with the 5  

I am already running IOS7 for the last few months and love it so that wont be a new feature for me. The big thing for me is battery life.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 53
Reply 3, posted (12 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5746 times:

My 4S will most likely stay in use – it will get iOS 7 anyway (and possibly iOS 8 after that) and neither higher performance nor larger capacity (now likely up to 128GB in the 5S) are of major interest to me right now. And I very much like the steel-and-glass hardware of the 4S.

The rumoured fingerprint sensor may be an aid and motivation to upgrade security for people who did not bother with a passcode at all thus far, but an actual passcode is still quite a bit more secure than a key you keep disseminating copies of on every door handle and on every drinking glass.

Biometric keys are low-grade, but relatively high-convenience security. A passcode is lower-convenience but higher-grade security which is closer to my preference. And it doesn't need any additional sensor support.


User currently onlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12511 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (12 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5727 times:
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Quoting Klaus (Reply 3):
The rumoured fingerprint sensor may be an aid and motivation to upgrade security for people who did not bother with a passcode at all thus far, but an actual passcode is still quite a bit more secure than a key you keep disseminating copies of on every door handle and on every drinking glass.

Seriously, for someone who really wants to get into your phone, dealing with a PIN is easier than trying to lift fingerprints.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 53
Reply 5, posted (12 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5727 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 4):
Seriously, for someone who really wants to get into your phone, dealing with a PIN is easier than trying to lift fingerprints.

iOS supports arbitrary passcodes, not just 4-digit PINs. And even then an attacker needs to find the right PIN out of the 10000 possible ones within 10 tries before the device auto-erases its hardware-encrypted data. With a decent arbitrary passcode the chances shrink to a completely negligible quantity.

Even desoldering the flash chip won't help because the data is encrypted even there (with an individual, random key irrecoverably buried within the main processor).

This is not quite as easy as it may look at first glance.

By comparison, fingerprints can even be recovered from the device itself – and it's mainly a question of the sensitivity setting (again security vs. convenience) whether those recovered fingerprints can be used to gain access to the data for a determined thief.

[Edited 2013-09-05 05:14:05]

User currently offlinevirginblue4 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 902 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (12 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5716 times:

I will be upgrading to the iPhone 5S, I may possibly go for the champagne option, not too sure yet. I'll be upgrading from an iPhone 5.


The amazing tale of flight.
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7131 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (12 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5640 times:

I moved from Apple to the Samsung Galaxy IV, and have not regretted the move.


The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19608 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (12 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5615 times:

I'll be upgrading mostly because my iPhone 5 is out of memory and if I'm going to buy a new phone, then I might as well get the latest model.

User currently offlineKaphias From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (12 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5607 times:

Still running an iPhone 4 here. Works fine, no issues, just a little slow. I'm planning to hold out for the iPhone 6, as I don't really have the need for any of the new features on the 5S. Hoping that the 6 will be a bigger breakthrough... if not, I'll be getting one regardless.


Flown on: C150, C172, C206, Beaver, Otter, Jetstream 32, Q400, CRJ7/9, E135/40/45, A320, B732/4/7/8/9, B744, B752, B763
User currently offlinevirginblue4 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 902 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5579 times:

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 7):

I never understand why people do this? That contributed absolutely nothing to this thread.

Anyway, looking forward to the keynote on Tuesday  



The amazing tale of flight.
User currently offlineLuftfahrer From Germany, joined Mar 2009, 1014 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (12 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5502 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 3):
Biometric keys are low-grade, but relatively high-convenience security. A passcode is lower-convenience but higher-grade security which is closer to my preference. And it doesn't need any additional sensor support.

How about both passcode and finger print?  



Et là tu montes encore plus haut et ça persiste, alors on vole
User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (12 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5501 times:

Quoting Kaphias (Reply 9):
Still running an iPhone 4 here. Works fine, no issues, just a little slow. I'm planning to hold out for the iPhone 6, as I don't really have the need for any of the new features on the 5S. Hoping that the 6 will be a bigger breakthrough... if not, I'll be getting one regardless.

Ditto....It's as if he spoke for me.

Quoting virginblue4 (Reply 10):
I never understand why people do this? That contributed absolutely nothing to this thread.

And yours contributed even LESS!!!



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineJetsgo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3083 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (12 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5468 times:

I plan to contribute the least by pointing out how comical it is to watch people claiming they will wait in line for a product they know nothing about and are already considering colors they again know nothing about.

Carry on.   



Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
User currently offlineAirstud From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2660 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (12 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5459 times:

Me, I'm sticking with my Palm VIIx

  



Pancakes are delicious.
User currently offlineHomSar From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (12 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5443 times:

I'm not going to be camping out in front of the Apple store, but I decided a while ago that I was going to switch to iPhone for my next phone, so I've just been holding off for a while. My biggest hope is that they have a 128 GB model. I have a several year old iPod touch (first one that was available at 64GB), and it's basically full. If they offer a 128 GB iPhone, I'll get that to replace both my old Android and my iPod.


I was raised by a cup of coffee.
User currently onlineMIAspotter From Spain, joined Nov 2001, 2761 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (12 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5403 times:

I will wait and see what the new iPhone offers, then I´ll make a decision, I have a 32GB 4S and I am quite happy with it, and once iOS7 is released it will give it a refresh.

If it´s worth it, then I will buy it come december so I can give it a few months to settle and see what people think of it.

Will there be new iPads announced as well? iPad Mini is due for a refresh and so is the current iPad 4.

MIAspotter.



I think, therefore I don´t fly Ryanair.
User currently offlinevirginblue4 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 902 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (12 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5373 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 12):

The difference being, I had already contributed to the thread in my previous post. He came in and posted something unrelated to the thread.



The amazing tale of flight.
User currently offlinevirginblue4 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 902 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (12 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5371 times:

Quoting Jetsgo (Reply 13):

There have been plenty of leaks so a lot is know actually. Leaks of the champagne / gold model have already been shown, so I know exactly what it will look like.



The amazing tale of flight.
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 53
Reply 19, posted (12 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5316 times:

Quoting Luftfahrer (Reply 11):
How about both passcode and finger print?

That would work, but it would not have really better security than a slightly longer passcode anyway but you'd have at least occasional rejection even with the proper passcode. I personally would not see a significant gain in that either.

It's primarily for people who wouldn't bother with a passcode at all. For them it may provide some low- to medium-grade data security vs. none at all.

Quoting HomSar (Reply 15):
My biggest hope is that they have a 128 GB model.

That seems to be a plausible option.


User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2972 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (12 months 21 hours ago) and read 5245 times:

Quoting HomSar (Reply 15):
128 GB model

Leaks indicate that this would be very possible on the next iteration of the iPhone.



The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19608 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (12 months 20 hours ago) and read 5227 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 3):
The rumoured fingerprint sensor may be an aid and motivation to upgrade security for people who did not bother with a passcode at all thus far, but an actual passcode is still quite a bit more secure than a key you keep disseminating copies of on every door handle and on every drinking glass.

We use fingerprint readers at work and it's not as insecure as you think. They're much better than passwords. They make us change our passwords every three months and we can't use any of the last five passwords. I keep forgetting them!

Presumably, Apple would use a capacitance scanner similar to the ones we have at work. Those combine a capacitance scanner (which works on touch) with a thermal and pulse sensor, so a mold or my dismembered finger can't be used. This is required security for HIPAA, so the requirements are very stringent indeed.

Unlike passwords, you can't forget or lose your fingerprints (well, if you do, you have bigger problems). The big vulnerability is that if someone really wanted to, they could collect your fingerprints somehow, create a thin wearable glove with your fingerprints molded on, and then fake out the scanners we have at work. So a fingerprint scanner would not be good sole choice of security for, say, Fort Knox. But for most routine secure operations, it is usually sufficient.

But leaving such extreme measures aside, it is not your fingerprint that unlocks such a device, it is your finger. And fingers are hard to steal, and frankly, if someone does that, you have bigger problems than your phone.  


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5483 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (12 months 18 hours ago) and read 5213 times:

Quoting Kaphias (Reply 9):
Still running an iPhone 4 here. Works fine, no issues, just a little slow. I'm planning to hold out for the iPhone 6

  

Me too. Presuming that my 4S lasts that long, I have decided to skip a generation and go straight to the 6. It's working fine right now, so fingers crossed.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineFlyboyOz From Australia, joined Nov 2000, 1985 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (12 months 18 hours ago) and read 5202 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):

I'll be upgrading mostly because my iPhone 5 is out of memory and if I'm going to buy a new phone, then I might as well get the latest model.

lol... then take some of your apps in ipad... no need to buy another phones!! Maybe you have got too many photos of the planes!!



The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (12 months 17 hours ago) and read 5199 times:

The ideas some people have about security never stops to amaze me. Apparently it is easier to find someones fingerprint and create a usable replica than it is to read the pin code someone is entering. I know an eight year old kid who has access to every phone around him and he has not lifted a single fingerprint...

25 BestWestern : My IBM thinkpad laptop 10 years ago had fingerprint access. I presume the technology has improved since then.
26 Klaus : How much actual penetration testing has been done with those? I remain sceptical, particularly on a low-power, ultra-compact mobile device. How do yo
27 cmf : I'm glad you're perfect. Certainly not representative of how most people enter pin codes. Suggest that you continue using your perfect pin code but l
28 Revelation : Interesting. My music collection alone is around 32gb, and so on my last phone I went with an 8GB Galaxy S3 plus a 64 GB microSD card. I'm thinking h
29 willzzz88 : HUGEly looking forward to it. Right now I use a VZW Samsung Android that's CDMA only (not a world phone) and has battery life problems. As I plan to t
30 Klaus : I'm nowhere near "perfect". Just cautious. It can be better than no security at all, but that's not saying much. Particularly since pretty good secur
31 sia747megatop : Apple isn't just selling a standalone product with the iPhone, it's part of an Apple ecosystem. People that need to upgrade their phone and want to st
32 cmf : No, it is much better than the poor security you propose because it is practical. Reality is that pin codes are poor because a) people find them too
33 casinterest : I think the big things we will see on Tuesday are in order of probability 1. Iphone 5s and 5c 2. Ipad mini with Retina display 3. Ipad refresh 4. Radi
34 rwy04lga : The problem with that is someone could possibly erase all of your info on purpose. A rival, an angry girlfriend, a mean older brother....any of those
35 Klaus : So is a passcode. If you don't have any data worth protecting with a passcode, a fingerprint sensor can still provide a little protection even so, bu
36 cmf : You think so and I think it is easy enough. But, a good portion of the world doesn't think so. Claiming it is simple doesn't change the fact they don
37 ManuCH : If someone goes as far as trying to lift your fingerprints to gain access to your iPhone, you're probably storing way too valuable information (trade
38 Klaus : Ask the people who don't protect their phones – not me. See my posts above. Nope. It isn't. Whoever told you that didn't know what they're talking
39 Klaus : As I said: It's a step forward for people who hadn't secured their iPhone at all so far. Replicating fingerprints is not difficult. There are easy do
40 cmf : No, it is you who insist fingerprint isn't enough. back to you, where isn't fingerprint enough? My experience tells me the occasions are far between.
41 Klaus : On my device with my data. Exactly. And leaving copies of the key to my data everywhere I touch any smooth surface is not my idea of data security. I
42 Post contains images par13del : Security folks are all about CYA, everything is simple and easy to put down on paper, unfortunately for the rest of the world, security folks live in
43 Post contains images ManuCH : Or for those who secured them, like myself, but only enable the PIN after a 15 minute timeout, for conveniency. The fingerprint sensor is probably mo
44 Post contains links and images Klaus : Pretty quick and easy with readily available means: http://www.edri.org/edrigram/number6.7/fingerprint-schauble Of course newer sensor designs have t
45 DocLightning : Yes it is. Because you do not know which part of the print the software examines for minutae, you need an intact, complete print. Even the surface of
46 hoMsar : But James Bond makes it look sooooooooo easy!
47 Post contains images cmf : That's not an answer. You need to tell what type of data is unsecure with fingerprint but safe with pin code. All your answer provide is that you hav
48 Klaus : The answer to the question when protection is safe "enough" is inherently a judgment call and inherently does not have an objective answer except whe
49 Post contains images ManuCH : And you really think that 2 friends, or 2 partners in a relationship, will have a discussion going along the line of "oh well, your claim is not fals
50 Post contains images Klaus : Of course if that happens in a relationship, other issues have already gone wrong before. No, deniability is very much a real-life issue when things
51 Post contains images ManuCH : I agree. But I'd still prevent it from happening by using technical means, along the line of reasoning "better safe than sorry". True. But at that po
52 Post contains images Klaus : Sure; And depending on your circumstances and priorities you'd choose an appropriate way to do that. Indeed. Digging into the privacy of the other is
53 Post contains images ManuCH : Exactly. Which leads us back to the original discussion. Hence we closed the circle ... which would entitle a completely separate thread. You're very
54 cmf : Amazing. You are completely missing the point of what the fingerprint protection is about. Instead you dig yourself into minutia that misses the poin
55 Klaus : I simply have different priorities than you do, and I have always acknowledged that different views on the matter can lead to different conclusions a
56 TLG : I've said it before about the points you make concerning security, but I'll say it again: what you say is probably technically correct, but I questio
57 cmf : Yet so much hate and misinformation. Those are details, the big picture remains very similar. It is clear you can't find a way to defend your stateme
58 max999 : I believe the 5C is going to be Apple's 'growth' phone. Developed markets are already too saturated so it's getting more and more difficult to grow ma
59 DocLightning : There is more to Apple than status. The way they got that way is by making the best products. And, truly, of all the smartphones I've used, the iPhon
60 Post contains images tugger : Well, unless you are using Siri..... Tugg
61 Rara : This statement was 100% true about two years ago, when the other mobile ecosystems were still experimental. Since then they've really come into their
62 tugger : The problem is that 2013 is already nearing its end.... I know I may sound too negative, but honestly Apple needs to produce something that feels lik
63 mmedford : Jobs is dead, there is no innovation left.
64 Post contains links hoMsar : One of my biggest pet peeves. Every website has a different requirement about how many numbers, capital letters, symbols, hieroglyphics, etc. are req
65 Klaus : There is absolutely zero "hate" or other personal issue with you on my side as anyone can see from my posts. As to "misinformation", we've been discu
66 mad99 : If the phone does come with the print reader it will be interesting to see how it works. I have a lenovo laptop and you have to swipe your finger over
67 Post contains images cmf : Oh God. When will you get that this is about how pins generally are compromised, from watching them being entered. Limiting the number of attempts do
68 virginblue4 : Oh please. This argument is just getting ridiculous now.
69 MIAspotter : I suggest this thread has its name changed to ¨Fingerprint reader vs Pin Code which is safest¨ or either locked already and a new one opened where w
70 casinterest : I think the fingerprint reader will be a real difference maker, but one that Android and Windows will quickly replicate. There is a lot of security re
71 Post contains links casinterest : Anyhow, new demarcation point in thread. Almost need a new one here. Here is the live blog from Gizmodo from the Apple event. http://live.gizmodo.com/
72 OA260 : I think it will be a good idea and with the thousands of iPhones stolen if its not easily hacked then will be a more secure way. The number of people
73 casinterest : For me , I am not sure whether the tweaks matter or not. I still have a lot of coworkers still running 3GS and 4's. They are ready for IOS 7 , and th
74 tugger : I can see fingerprint, a simple PIN, and facial recognition being pretty good. Tugg
75 Post contains links and images OA260 : I have been running the developers IO7 for a few months now and love it on my iPhone 5 so even less of a jump for me to a 5S which is why for the fir
76 Klaus : iOS was always geared towards keeping each device fresh for 2 or more years and the outer appearance usually changed only every second generation, whi
77 Post contains links and images OA260 : [Edited 2013-09-10 10:25:22]
78 Post contains links and images Klaus : Quickest updates in writing: ars technica http://live.arstechnica.com/apple-september-10-event/ More pictures than words: The Verge http://live.thever
79 Post contains links and images OA260 : [Edited 2013-09-10 10:29:42] [Edited 2013-09-10 10:38:08] [Edited 2013-09-10 10:42:12]
80 Klaus : The A7 in the 5S does indeed have the new ARM 64 bit ISA – there have been rumours, but I did not expect it today already (that it would come eventu
81 Post contains links and images OA260 : . . . . . . . [Edited 2013-09-10 11:00:34] . [Edited 2013-09-10 11:03:39]
82 Klaus : As I had expected, the fingerprint sensor scans a raw image and the main processor does the decoding. They are giving assurances that nothing is uploa
83 OA260 : Ok the 5C is not for me as I said. I can see it appealing to the lower end of the market and teenagers. I like the 5S and the finger print sensor. The
84 Post contains images Klaus : The 5C appears to be a still nicely updated 5 in a plastic case, the 5S has all the new tech. Both have identical software features otherwise (no devi
85 casinterest : I will be interested to see more about this "M7" chip in the new IPADS and IPODS during the fall event for those. I suspect this has more to do with g
86 max999 : The price of the 5C is unexpectedly high at $550. I wouldn't consider this a low end price whatsoever. Once people tear down the 5C and figure out th
87 OA260 : The prices are lower in the USA. Here in the UK/Ireland an iPhone 5 is $860 ! The 5S is going to be the same.
88 Klaus : I don't think so, because the expressed purpose of that extra chip is apparently to track(!) sensor data while the main processor is in sleep mode. D
89 Klaus : The US prices are without tax, european ones are usually inclusive (VAT in particular). If I've read irish VAT correctly at 23%, your irish price of
90 doug_Or : The 5c looks a like a big disappointment. For most people in the US who are on contract the newest model of iPhone has generally been $200 while the o
91 Cadet985 : I just got my iPhone 5 in June, I'm not likely to upgrade for awhile, unless I hit it really big in Vegas in a couple weeks. I also wonder this. Inste
92 Jetsgo : I think it's an ok release, for the 5S that is... I mean no one really expected anything more, right? Apple has a history of making a mild refresh aro
93 Luftfahrer : Hopefully not. Some may see it as a cool feature, but it serves little purpose and does not even increase security (fingerprints can be replicated qu
94 Klaus : Given that Apple makes more money than their entire mobile phone competition combined, I doubt they feel any urgency to beat the others in a race to
95 Jetsgo : Be that as it may, it strikes me as a half assed effort to offer a "cheap" phone. Kind of like when Delta introduced Song and United Ted. And while I
96 hoMsar : Disappointed in the lack of a 128GB option. I wasn't really expecting it, given that it wasn't among the prominent rumors. That said, I still might ac
97 RyanairGuru : I hadn't thought of that! I actually don't have any issue with spy agencies, I have nothing to hide from the NSA if they want to look into me, but I
98 Klaus : They have no interest in offering a "cheap" phone. They only have an interest to broaden their base by a) ditching their expensive machined metal cas
99 seb146 : I am riding out my contract with AT&T so I can get a Samsung Android phone. Otherwise, iYawn. iDontcare.
100 mad99 : Looking forward to the ios7 and i'll keep the 4s for another year...maybe
101 mdavies06 : If Apple is really aiming at emerging markets with the 'iphone 4S' - as 5C is far too expensive as a cheap phone, they should really make a small effo
102 Post contains links JJJ : Samsung overtakes Apple as world's most profitable mobile phone maker Falling profits from iPhone sales and strong demand for Galaxy handsets combine
103 Post contains images Ken777 : This seems to me to be an annual event where, just before Apple releases new phones (or tablets) sales of the old product go down and Samsung looks t
104 MIAspotter : Same here, not quite impressed with the 5S (let alone the 5C) but as I said before, I will see what users think of it first, and then decide to buy o
105 Post contains links Klaus : They just won't get that either way. The 4S is still a high-end phone with (for most users) negligible differences to the the latest model, since you
106 na : Its looks 250 Euros cheaper, and is 100 cheaper. Disappointing.
107 TLG : Is it accurate to look at a company's total profits? Both Apple & Samsung produce other things besides phones. Apple produces iPhones, iPods, iPad
108 Klaus : Exactly that is at the basis of the article I've linked to above. It is possible to make a much more educated guess than the lazy journalists with th
109 TLG : I'll be honest with you, I hadn't even clicked the link you supplied. The reason is that when looking for information like this I don't rely on any w
110 Post contains links and images Redd : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sIWez9HAbA A good laugh about the new iPhones
111 casinterest : No, the M7 is there for aggregation of data and interpretation of movements and sounds that the active chip does not want to burden itself with and s
112 Post contains links Acheron : The NSA now gets both with the 5S. Handing your fingerprints for free, lol. And I found this related bit of news as quite amusing: http://www.busines
113 Post contains links and images Klaus : It's pretty obvious that video was made before the presentation, without a clue of the actual product. But in line with the tenor of that video: Why
114 casinterest : Right, but looking at every bit of input and processing it, is still a valuable offset to the load that the main CPU is performing. It is a dedicated
115 Klaus : Your metaphor has it right in one aspect: The CEO would cost a lot more in performing the same task, just like the main CPU would. Slow sensor data a
116 Post contains images Ken777 : And obviously you and I are now somehow complicit in our own surveillance by writing in this thread.
117 zckls04 : A thief doesn't steal a smartphone to sell on to an end user (or use himself). A lot of smartphone thieves are either employed by or sell their phone
118 virginblue4 : Well with activation lock in iOS 7, stealing an iOS device is going to be a pretty pointless thing to do.
119 Rara : We'll see. Chances are there'll always be a use for an iOS device, whichever way acquired.
120 cmf : No, those operations use other methods.
121 zckls04 : Other methods to what?
122 Post contains images Acheron : Hey, I'm not the one who is going to run into an Apple Store to buy a device that will give the NSA my fingerprint for free and without any effort
123 cmf : What do you think? It was you who brought up that there are leagues dealing with stolen phones, What do you think they do with them?
124 zckls04 : I am asking you to clarify your statement, because the logical interpretation of what you said is "they use other methods to", followed by my previou
125 cmf : You proposed those organizations would start using fingerprints. They won't because using fingerprints require more resources than the other methods
126 Klaus : Which "other methods" are these, pray tell? With a locked iPhone 4S, 5, 5C or 5S? Apple won't help a criminal operation out, so even weak passcodes a
127 zckls04 : In other words, they factory restore because they are unable to access the data any other way, because they don't know and cannot crack the password,
128 cmf : Ask the leagues selling stolen iphones. No, because the leagues are interested in selling them. They do not find the time spent in wading through dat
129 zckls04 : Assuming the iPhone uses the most sophisticated fingerprint scanner possible, it can only be as secure as a properly used password. If it is a less s
130 Post contains links OA260 : Sweaty types may find the iPhone 5S fingerprint sensor a challenge, Apple tells WSJ No doubt there are more than a few hardcore Apple fans out there a
131 cmf : Still no. It will be more secure in some ways and less in others. Passwords have lost most of their security. You're unlikely to find anything of val
132 zckls04 : Saying no don't make it so. If you are careful not to show anybody your password and pick a strong one (hence: used properly) there is as near to a z
133 cmf : Even klaus admitted he isn't perfect. People do pick up passwords all the time. That is fact. It does give you protection. It just is very vulnerable
134 zckls04 : Woah there- hidden cameras? I think we're straying into a rather fantastic scenario. Phones don't stay in one place. Hidden cameras would be ludicrou
135 Post contains images Klaus : Ask the leagues selling stolen iphones.Unprotected iPhones can still be extracted, wiped and resold, and iOS 7 and the iPhone 5S won't change that as
136 cmf : Happened when you guys suggested lifting fingerprints and fooling the sensors. That's what you try to attack after suggesting lifting fingerprints to
137 Post contains links zckls04 : Well that depends on the accuracy of the sensors, and the technology available to fool it. Technology marches on, but no matter the technology your h
138 Bill142 : Some people here think it is.
139 Post contains images cmf : As I have said over and over again. It really depends on what you're trying to protect if it matters. If all you want to get rid off are the opportun
140 Klaus : cmf, your problem is that you're insisting on making general conclusions and absolute claims but you are not equipped to back those up with sufficient
141 cmf : You keep looking at the problem from just one side and then support it in the same way you object me supporting my claims. Let me try to open your ey
142 zckls04 : I wouldn't argue with that. Hence the reason I prefixed every instance of password with "properly used". Nobody's claiming that a fingerprint sensor
143 gingersnap : Except it has already been done. The company that implemented a fingerprint swipe scanner into the Android powered ATRIX 4G, is the same company boug
144 cmf : No, I'm arguing reality. You're arguing a non realistic situation and even then you get it wrong. Not at all. I expect that apart from bottom line sc
145 Pellegrine : USA Verizon Wireless Apple iPhone 5S 2 year contract 16GB $199 32GB $299 64GB $399 +$30 upgrade fee which they are a pain in the ass about waiving. VZ
146 casinterest : Apple can't patent the fingerprint scanner if it is another companies. They have licensed it. However they can attempt to patent certain usages of it
147 Klaus : No, they have bought the company which made this particular technology (and which has since stopped selling it to other companies). Other patents may
148 casinterest : oops. Should be interesting.
149 OA260 : BTW anyone running a non developer IOS7 needs to downgrade to IOS6 before tomorrow. Developers have already upgraded to the IOS7 GM.
150 Post contains links OA260 : iOS 7 'could cause iPhone apps to crash' iPhone users around the world are eagerly anticipating the launch of Apple iOS 7 today, but the new software
151 casinterest : IOS 7 is Available Download begins now
152 OA260 : And as expected servers are jammed and loads of errors. That being reported by numerous mates of mine.
153 MIAspotter : Yup! mine is throwing up a lot of silly errors. Oh well. MIAspotter
154 casinterest : I am upgraded now. I like it. A few things are weird to me, but I like the double tap app access and the new camera app so far.
155 MIAspotter : Same here, finally managed it after like 3 hours. I also like it, it looks fresh and neat, I like the weather app, and the quick access to the contro
156 AirPacific747 : My girlfriend and I tried upgrading at the same time. I upgraded without problems, but my gf had to wait until early this morning before it worked for
157 OA260 : Yes it took some quite a while. This morning some of my colleagues who are not phone savvy got me to do theirs and it took around 25-30mins but all do
158 AmricanShamrok : I have a "junk" folder on my iPhone of all the built-in apps I don't use (Stocks, Passbook, Compass, Maps, Safari) and now it finally lets me add the
159 Post contains images Braniff747SP : Happy to loose the skeuomorphisms with iOS 7. Some apps are definitely better, the control center is nice, and I appreciate the speed on my 4S. I can'
160 Klaus : It works well so far on my iPhone 4S and iPad 3. Change can be good initially for its own sake, but in the end it has to prove its value on its own in
161 MIAspotter : Managed to update my iPad as well, much faster now after the bombardment of yesterday (I feel sorry for Apple´s IT guys) The only thing I still don´
162 Post contains links Klaus : Spot on: Three days. http://www.ccc.de/en/updates/2013/ccc-breaks-apple-touchid Actually, it was the same guys I referred to above, which doesn't sho
163 cmf : As I said, not surpriced. Yet still slower than the "safe" method. It means nothing. Nothing because the fingerprint solution is still as valid for t
164 Klaus : The fingerprint crack took them 3 days for the first one – with a bit of practice, this can likely be done within an hour. The difference between e
165 cmf : You still don't understand security. The protection against the few people prepared to go through the process of creating a substitute is wiping the
166 Klaus : You keep presenting one single scenario as universally representative for all security-relevant situations. That is just not the case. There are many
167 cmf : That only means you have not understand a single word of what I have said. The problem with most "security experts." is they think it is all about pr
168 zckls04 : A ludicrous misrepresentation of Klaus (and my) arguments. I can't tell if you're doing this deliberately or not, but if not I'd like to understand w
169 Post contains images cmf : Nope. You have constantly argued that you should worry about people lifting your finger print, create a substitute and get access to your phone. You
170 zckls04 : No, neither I nor Klaus have argued that a pincode is "the way to go here". That would be a vague and meaningless term which lacks specificity. Neith
171 Post contains links cmf : Hmm So even just after you make the argument... Pretty sure you will never open your mind thus there is no argument to convince you. This is about ma
172 zckls04 : Now you're going in circles- I've already explained the difference: Nobody and nothing is perfect. But I guess me and all my friends, colleagues and
173 Klaus : You're falling for a common mistake if you believe that understanding you would automatically and without fail have to mean agreeing with you. I have
174 Post contains links hoMsar : I find using banks as an example an interesting comparison, particularly in the US, where banks have been stubborn in refusing to implement chip-and-
175 cmf : Your jumping all over the place and more often than not your only argument is misrepresenting what I have stated or to question my knowledge. Amazing
176 Klaus : These issues are all significant, just not universally. Usage scenarios are quite diverse, which is why Touch ID may indeed mean a security improveme
177 zckls04 : But none of this applies to me- I don't use a PIN at all (a password instead, changed periodically; something I cannot do with my fingerprint). If I
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