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Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US  
User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7887 times:

For the last twenty years or so there has been a concerted effort by the manufacturers of heavy appliances to "dumb down" Americans into thinking they will be lucky to get five years of service from their new appliances. Pi$$ poor quality and lack of reliability. Cheap parts and systems that cannot be repaired. Poorly trained or inept repair people who are themselves being phased-out but in the meantime those "factory service" companies are still reaping the harvest of "basic services charges" while spending no time on the job to simply advise you to "throw-out the old and buy new"!

Here's the rant:

I am STUNNED to look through Craigslist and see all the people who want to get rid of their old Maytag Washer because it needs a belt. Or they get rid of a perfectly good and fully functional old KitchenAid (by Hobart) dishwasher just because they are remodeling! DUH!

You can replace a belt, pump or timer on an old Maytag with a screwdriver and five minutes of your time and get another 30 years good service out of it. For NO amount of money can you get that level of performance or quality on today's market. All those "front-load" washers they are pushing on the American public nowadays can't even do a good job washing-out office dust. Just look at all the products they sell to "wash" your new front-load machine with! That is to rid it of the hidden bacterial black jelly that grows in the dark confines of the machine you can't see. Like washing your clothes in a cesspool. Who ever hear of our parents needing a product to "wash" the washing machine?

The don't even make Maytags anymore! The company went bust from mis-management six years ago and Whirlpool bought the name. They Just "re-badge" their Whirlpool crap with a Maytag label and jack the price. Same thing they did when they bought KitchenAid from Hobart.
Gone are the days your GE, Whirlpool, or just about any other make Washer will last more than about five years. Ridiculous! That goes for refrigerators, stoves, and clothes dryers as well. They are being manufactured in other countries using cheap plastic parts and cheap electronic "mother Boards" that are often delivered new from the factory defective.

Speed Queen ( a VERY old American manufacturer of Washers and Dryers) is the only decent brand left being sold here nowadays. They still use steel internal parts, they are Made In America, and they have the best "from the factory" warranty in the business. They control their quality so tightly you have to get them through small independent appliance stores.

KitchenAid by Hobart used to be the very best dishwasher you could get. Now you can spend three-thousand dollars for a dishwasher that will only give you so so results---and take two hours to do it!
The old KitchenAids were considered to be a "Hurricane in a Box". They used plenty of water and could wash a load of filthy dishes and (fan) dry them in about 35 minutes. Now the new machines just piss a quart or two of water around for a couple of hours in the hopes the enzymes in the detergent can knock the soil down some.

AND, you had better buy that extended Warranty! As much of it as you can get!
If you read the "fine print" of the manufacturer's one year warranty you will see that they can claim a "power-surge" beyond their control destroyed the "mother board" and "voids" the warranty. They charge you for the service call and walk out the door leaving you to have to purchase a new replacement---hopefully ANOTHER one of their brand.

Now, people on radio talk shows may advise against it, but, they get paid to give advice they don't have to follow.
Also, they will not be there to pay for your replacement refrigerator or washer when the two-week old unit that "fried" is put out on the curb for the re-cyclers.

Whats your experience? How long did your Mom and Dads appliances last?
Whats you're rant?


"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
114 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 3012 posts, RR: 46
Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7827 times:
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This is interesting. In this country we've always had front-loading washing machines, and I've never seen any of them being user-serviceable, unless you're some kind of hobby mechanic.

I was amused when I saw the top-loading washing machines when I first visited the US. They looked so heavy-duty and "not nice" to me. I know washing machines are supposed to be functional, not stylish, but they just seemed plain ugly to me. "Oh, these are like those you see in the movies", I thought.

Nevertheless, the front-loading machines we use in Switzerland have a quite long life. Definitely 10+ years. Maybe not 30, but not 5 either.

So are you saying that any end-user should be able to replace a belt on a US vintage top-loading washing machine, or dryer? That's pretty much unheard of over here.

I love those cultural differences  



Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3592 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7817 times:
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I own a ten year old house, still has the original appliances. GE fridge, dishwasher, and stove. Whirlpool washer/dryer.

Had to power off the fridge once to deice the water supply line to ice maker & water dispenser. I put a door switch in the dryer a year or so ago. Other than that no issues.

YouTube is a good resource for minor appliance repairs BTW.



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User currently offlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3592 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7811 times:
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Quoting ManuCH (Reply 1):
So are you saying that any end-user should be able to replace a belt on a US vintage top-loading washing machine, or dryer? That's pretty much unheard of over here.

Which is unheard of? Needing a belt or the owner doing the work?



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User currently offlineManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 3012 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7807 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 3):
Which is unheard of? Needing a belt or the owner doing the work?

The owner doing the work. People here usually call some company to do it. Nobody would dare to open those things themselves.



Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40069 posts, RR: 74
Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 7773 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Thread starter):
Whats your experience? How long did your Mom and Dads appliances last?
Whats you're rant?

Most of our appliances lasted forever. Many of the places I've rented had older appliances (1980s & 1990s vintage) that worked just fine.
About 15 years ago, the washing machine in the house I was renting had broke. It was an old Sears brand. I forgot what part it was but it was only a 2-digit part number. The guy at the service center had laughed at me because he said that part went out of production in 1966. It most likely was old as the house which was built in 1957.
That machine lasted 40 years. It sure danced around a lot in the basement when it was working.
Me & my roommates pitched in an bought a new machine and it only lasted only 5 years. Then again, we bought the cheapest one. Not sure how reliable the new top quality units last.

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 1):
I know washing machines are supposed to be functional, not stylish, but they just seemed plain ugly to me.

You've got to get one in avocado green.  




I looked a retro house or should I say a house that was never remodeled a few years ago in San Francisco.
It was owned by an elderly lady that eventually passed away. That house had so much history in it. This house was like a time capsule. Lots of old appliances and technology that still worked. The house was build in 1961 and for sale by the children of the original owner. They wanted $1.9 million dollars which is a steel in San Francisco.
It had the avocado green kitchen will original working appliances. Even the dishwasher and old style refrigerator worked. The only old 'appliance' that didn't work was the old Sentinal television set. It had the old style green tube.
The house had a remote intercom system to communicate between the garage, kitchen and master bedroom. It was a wide ranch style home.


http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj96/Rush8track/DreamHouse028_zps73b03979.jpg



http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj96/Rush8track/DreamHouse001.jpg


Something I don't see in new homes is an indoor, industrial grade grill. You can have a summertime barbeque even thought it's a rainstorm outside.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj96/Rush8track/DreamHouse026.jpg


http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj96/Rush8track/DreamHouse027.jpg



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8963 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 7755 times:

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 1):
Nevertheless, the front-loading machines we use in Switzerland have a quite long life. Definitely 10+ years. Maybe not 30, but not 5 either.

The Miele washer and dryer in my parents' house in Switzerland were delivered in 1962, and worked flawlessly for over 40 years until they were replaced about 10 years ago. The "new" units are already falling apart and ready to be replaced.

Same story with the dishwasher and electric ovens in the house - the ovens lasted also 40 years, the dishwasher maybe 30 years, and their replacements are lucky to last 10.

Of course, such machines in Switzerland in the early 60s cost a small fortune and were built accordingly. The new machines are literally half the weight of the old units, or less. I remember almost injuring myself removing the two old ovens, and how shocked I was at how light the new ones were.

In the US, the last really sturdy line of refrigerators were the old GE units from the 70s and early 80s. I still have one in the garage for drinks, and it still works great.

It's called "built-in obsolescence", and it's where the manufacturer makes sure that you are back on the market for a new unit after a few years, rather than vanish for a generation or two.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40069 posts, RR: 74
Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 7742 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
In the US, the last really sturdy line of refrigerators were the old GE units from the 70s and early 80s. I still have one in the garage for drinks, and it still works great.

That's right. My parents bought a puke yellow General Electric refrigerator in 1977.
It was one of the first ones with the water fountain and ice dispenser.
We gave it to an uncle in 1984 when we moved and he still has it today.
However that refrigerator cost my parents $700 back in 1977. That was a LOT of money back then for a refrigerator. That was almost half the price of a brand new Ford Pinto or Toyota Corolla.


What ever happened to the brand Thermador?




Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7966 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7737 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
The Miele washer and dryer in my parents' house in Switzerland were delivered in 1962, and worked flawlessly for over 40 years

I have a Miele too which is now 13 years old but will certainly do another 10 years. Seems you can't go wrong with Kitchen Aid or Miele appliances.

Heavy appliances don't seem to be problem, but printers are and - most importantly! - espresso machines.   I am back to a stovetop espresso maker because I no longer wish to afford a 1,000 Euro / 15 kg machine that calls itself heavy duty but goes boink or plopp after only two years. GrrrrGGGGRRRRrrrrr!



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 9, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7723 times:

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 4):
Quoting zanl188 (Reply 3):
Which is unheard of? Needing a belt or the owner doing the work?

The owner doing the work. People here usually call some company to do it. Nobody would dare to open those things themselves.

I bought a rather low end frontloader washing machine back in 2001 after I split with my ex and moved into a place of my own (I was quite broke at this time). It has been made by some obscure brand named "Siltal" and was sold by the now closed Walmart store in CGN. It had the advantage that it would fit into the back of my old Suzuki Samurai and, using a mover´s strap, I could even pack it on my back and carry it four flights of stairs into my flat (still quite heavy).
It has been in weekly use since then (usually three loads per week, sorted by colours and usually one load of dirty working clothes). I only had to fix it once some years ago after the drive belt jumped off it´s pulleys. I would always do some troubleshooting myself before calling the service, and if possible fix the fault myself. On the other hand I´m a qualified mechanic.

But I agree that with many appliances and equipment nowadays cheap or underdimensioned parts are built in to make sure that the appliance breaks down, preferably just after the warranty period is over.

Jan


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6933 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7722 times:

The European Union is drafting regulations to battle built-in obsolescence and non-repairability, we'll see how it goes. Nobody will want to pay as much as what our parents paid, though, but I'm sure wonders can be done without too much investment.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8963 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7722 times:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 8):
Heavy appliances don't seem to be problem, but printers are and - most importantly! - espresso machines.   I am back to a stovetop espresso maker because I no longer wish to afford a 1,000 Euro / 15 kg machine that calls itself heavy duty but goes boink or plopp after only two years. GrrrrGGGGRRRRrrrrr!

I've had a couple of those. I learned the hard way that the key is either a) a rigorous maintenance cycle, where you de-calc the machine once a week whether you think you need it or not, or b) you run the machine with distilled water only. If you let the machine calc up, you've had it.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6933 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7697 times:

An uncle of mine builds machines to purify water, there are several models, one of which is used to remove calcium from water, that could probably help the coffee machine. One machine is entirely mechanical with many gears, lots of R&D got into it, then he discovered the Chinese had made a copy with cheap electronics instead of the mechanics, now he has an agreement with them and sells both, the Chinese one is good for the trash when it breaks. The mechanical one is used by hospitals and such.

Another uncle is into really heavy duty washing machines, many meters long ones which wash by the ton, then dry, then iron, then fold and pack clothes or sheets. He doesn't build new ones, but rather modernize old ones and sell them for cheaper than the new ones you can buy from big manufacturers that are extremely expensive. He will replace analog controls by computer ones, etc. He also sells spare parts from salvaged machines, often parts that he doesn't use for his conversions. It's incredible how many clients he has all over the world, looking for such parts for decades old machines, because the manufacturer doesn't want to produce new parts.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineArmitageShanks From UK - England, joined Dec 2003, 3645 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 7673 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Thread starter):
Or they get rid of a perfectly good and fully functional old KitchenAid (by Hobart) dishwasher just because they are remodeling! DUH!
Quoting Superfly (Reply 5):
Even the dishwasher and old style refrigerator worked.

We just remodeled our kitchen and ditched all the old appliances. We had that exact same green dishwasher and trash compactor. They were built in 1970 I believe. They were absolute CRAP appliances. Sure, they were solid and lasted 40 years but they were ugly, noisy, and not really good at their job. They took forever, were loud, and used a ton of electricity. We replaced them with efficient stainless steel models and couldn't be happier.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 7666 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 12):
It's incredible how many clients he has all over the world, looking for such parts for decades old machines, because the manufacturer doesn't want to produce new parts.

It is the same with industrial machine tools. Often the mechanical parts e.g. of a CNC mill from the 1980s is still ok, but omething in the computers is damaged. There is still a market for oldstyle pre-VGA monitors and old microprocessors.

Jan


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40069 posts, RR: 74
Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 7658 times:

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 13):
Sure, they were solid and lasted 40 years but they were ugly, noisy, and not really good at their job. They took forever, were loud, and used a ton of electricity. We replaced them with efficient stainless steel models and couldn't be happier.

That hasn't been my experience. The one appliance I prefer to be loud is the air conditioner. The air conditioner in my condo here in Bangkok is like having a Boeing 707 spooling up over my bed. It puts me to sleep faster and drowns out any outside noise.
I do like the looks of the new stainless steel kitchen appliances.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7834 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7635 times:

If you want appliances that will last forever buy Gaggenau, if you have stupid amounts of money to spend buy AGA, Electrolux Grand Cuisine or Molteni. There are two reasons to dump old working appliances, first is they don't fit in with modern design and the second is they use huge amounts of electricity, significantly more than modern appliances.

User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7630 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 15):
That hasn't been my experience. The one appliance I prefer to be loud is the air conditioner. The air conditioner in my condo here in Bangkok is like having a Boeing 707 spooling up over my bed. It puts me to sleep faster and drowns out any outside noise.

The airconditioner I have in my bedroom (in a converted attic under a black slate roof, in summer it tends to heat up to 50 degrees centigrade and I can´t sleep there like this after nightshift) is quite noisy. I don´t mind the continous noise, but the compressor starting and stopping (and a big contactor inside) always give a start.

Jan


User currently offlineSpaceshipDC10 From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 2051 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7618 times:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 8):
but printers

Well I still use my old HP960c I bought in 2002. It still works well when I need it. While I'm at it, I still use my old Dell desk top computer that is almost 12 years old. Until a year and a half ago it worked almost perfectly. Since it has become a bit of a snail after it slightly overheated because of a very comfy layer of dust inside.



I wish I was a glow worm.
User currently offlinetype-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7590 times:

It's not that hard to take to cover off of a Dell laptop and use a soft paintbrush and a can of air to clean it out. If it has a P4 processor inside it will slow down by 20% if the temp sensor detects an overheat condition.

In our last house we had that GE P7 stacked oven, in avocado too. Best oven we ever owned. It held temperatures rock solid. Nothing could beat it's self cleaning abilities. It came with the house which was built in 1969.

I am aware of the "don't fix it, just throw it away and buy a new one" mentality. Same thing happened with our washer. A small part broke and three different washer service companies told me it would be too expensive to fix just throw the machine away.
I found the part needed online for $25.00 and repaired it myself.

Also be aware of any contracts you may have concerning cell phones or cable/sat service. A friend of mine's wife got a phone call in March from Verizon telling her that her cell phone contract was going to expire very soon and if she didn't want her cell phone disconnected she would have to renew her contract IMMEDIATELY! So she renewed for another two years. When she told her husband, he checked their contract. They had another 6 months to go on the current contract. Let me tell you, if your contract expires they won't disconnect you. You'll just go month to month. These companies prey on people who don't have any idea how these things work.


User currently onlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12885 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7586 times:
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Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):

Now that's what I call a front-loader!  Wow!



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana! #44cHAMpion
User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks ago) and read 7554 times:

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 1):
In this country we've always had front-loading washing machines

Yes and those manufacturers that provide your machines have gone down a learning curve and provide you with decent products-----at the moment---maybe. Trust me---greed and time will change that just like it did here in the US ------UNLESS the citizens of your country raise hell and refuse to buy crap! In our country people are like dumb sheep. Whatever the appliance manufacturers or the Government tells them---they believe!
"Oh the front-loaders save SOOOOO much money----use sooooo much less detergent and water, etc.
Well that may be so if you do six loads of laundry every day of the year. But if you are like most normal people you do two or three loads a week. At that rate it would take ten years or so to realize any significant cost savings and the damned thing will be dead before that anyway. We are still pretty lucky here in the US because water is still pretty cheap in the big picture. What the Government does NOT say is that it is the WATER that cleans the clothes or your dishes! What a concept! What are we supposed to do? Use buckets of dust to wash with?  
Quoting ManuCH (Reply 1):
the front-loading machines we use in Switzerland have a quite long life

Well, I wish all of ya'll well in the future because the new stuff sold here in the US is crap for the most part and Americans are dumb enough to just take it without protest. "Can I have another sir?". Get a year or two out of a new refrigerator and set it out on the curb when the mother-board fries. Go buy another.

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 2):
I own a ten year old house, still has the original appliances. GE fridge, dishwasher, and stove. Whirlpool washer/dryer.

For heavens sake hang on to them until they die! Find an old repairman who knows how to work on them and they will last forever. Nowadays the young repair-droids have never even seen an old machine before. They are taught to tell you the parts are now NLA and you just need to throw it out and buy new. Of course, they don't mention that the new trash cannot be repaired at all if it craps-out!

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 4):
Nobody would dare to open those things themselves.

Well, there are a lot of the old designs that were fairly complicated---at least you needed some mechanical experience to work on them. The old Maytags were very simple which is why they lasted forever. All you had to do to change the belts was lean the machine back against the wall behind it and reach under the bottom of the machine. You could change them by hand. Don't even need a screw-driver.  
Quoting Superfly (Reply 5):
Most of our appliances lasted forever

Yes, those were the days   

Quoting Superfly (Reply 5):
It was an old Sears

Likely an old belt-drive built for Sears by Whirlpool (back when Whirlpool's were great machines!).

Quoting Superfly (Reply 5):
Even the dishwasher

THAT is an old Hobart-built Kitchen Aid! Those are the best dishwashers EVER and anyone who says their's needs replacing either has a repair issue or their machine needs refurbishment.
NOTHING new on the market cleans and dries like that at any price---bar none!
Those were the "Hurricane in a Box" machines. They were loud because they used WATER! What a concept!     
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
The Miele washer and dryer in my parents' house in Switzerland were delivered in 1962, and worked flawlessly for over 40 years until they were replaced about 10 years ago. The "new" units are already falling apart and ready to be replaced.

It's a shame. Miele is no different these days. I think they make the best imported dishwashers for the American market. They just take take forever to do a cycle because our Government is forcing the manufacturers to use less and less water at the expense of sacrificing performance. Duh! I bought an expensive as hell Miele upright vacuum cleaner a few years ago and really like it. It is a bit cumbersome and heavy to use yet does a good job. We'll see how long it lasts.
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
It's called "built-in obsolescence", and it's where the manufacturer makes sure that you are back on the market for a new unit after a few years, rather than vanish for a generation or two.

Yes, and it is damned annoying.   The thing that has really changed with time is that the large companies who now manufacture most brands under the GE or Whirlpool label depend on Americans who remember how their parents machines lasted forever. They are counting on people to buy their NEW crap based on previous experience with the brand. What the customer is now discovering is that there is no point in buying a more expensive unit because the added price no longer buys a higher level of quality. The name Whirlpool and GE no longer stand for quality.
It's a real shame.
And now we have a big Asian firm called LG that is selling their poorly built plastic crap. They don't even have a service network built-up here yet. I see people at the "big box" appliance stores buying LG crap and I cringe just knowing whats in store for them. Good luck! They will need it!

Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
What ever happened to the brand Thermador?

They are still around. I have a friend who just bought about 75K worth of their new stuff for his estate kitchen. Half of it was either defective or damaged---new out of the box! Ridiculous!

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 8):
Seems you can't go wrong with Kitchen Aid or Miele appliances.

Sorry to say it but Hobart sold-off their "home" division of Kitchen Aid appliances back in the late eighties to Whirlpool. For the first five years or so Whirlpool did not fool around with them. Then by the mid-ninties they began to cheapen the products just like they did with all the other labels they built for. Now a Kitchen Aid dishwasher is just a Whirlpool with a different label. Plastic crap.
Miele too---ain't what they used to be and never will be again.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 10):
drafting regulations to battle built-in obsolescence and non-repairability,

OMG! Good for them! I don't usually care much for Government interference in the free market yet that sounds like a good thing for consumers--------at least until the manufacturers find a way around it.   

Quoting Aesma (Reply 12):
Another uncle is into really heavy duty washing machines, many meters long ones which wash by the ton, then dry, then iron, then fold and pack clothes or sheets. He doesn't build new ones, but rather modernize old ones and sell them for cheaper than the new ones you can buy from big manufacturers that are extremely expensive. He will replace analog controls by computer ones, etc. He also sells spare parts from salvaged machines, often parts that he doesn't use for his conversions. It's incredible how many clients he has all over the world, looking for such parts for decades old machines, because the manufacturer doesn't want to produce new parts.

I would LOVE to meet him! I also tinker with old appliance restoration in my spare time however not on the level of your uncle.

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 13):
and couldn't be happier.

O.K. Mazel! You will need it!

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 13):
ditched all the old appliances.

Remember who gave you the bad news! You will rue the day you got rid of the old stuff. You will see. Sorry.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 16):
There are two reasons to dump old working appliances, first is they don't fit in with modern design and the second is they use huge amounts of electricity, significantly more than modern appliances.

It cannot be denied that the old stuff LOOKS old. I have a pair of 1962 Maytags in Turquoise. Yeah, they look dated but they are gorgeous! (They are still going strong and perform beautifully!)

As far as the amount of energy the old stuff uses, there are plenty of times that the difference is slight. A single person or two to three people in a household does not consume a significant amount of water/electricity compared to a family of ten! Things have to be put into prospective. I heard a sales-pitch from an Electrolux/White-Westinghouse rep once who went on and on about how much water and detergent their new front-loaders could save. What he didn't mention was that it would take TWO loads to wash the same amount of clothing a top-loader could do in ONE load. There isn't a bit of savings.

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 13):
noisy

It's noisy because it uses water to clean with!



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineArmitageShanks From UK - England, joined Dec 2003, 3645 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks ago) and read 7540 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 21):
It's noisy because it uses water to clean with!

That's the thing... it sucked at cleaning dishes. Don't even get me started on that crappy trash compactor.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks ago) and read 7531 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 21):
Those were the "Hurricane in a Box" machines. They were loud because they used WATER! What a concept!

Over here we have been told since the 1970s to save water. Water consumption has gone down big time since then, partially also because water (and sewage, which is calculated from the amount of fresh water used) have become quite expensive.
Now some countries have a problem with water shortages, but Germany is definitely not onr of them (watching the rain outside while I type this post).
The decrease of water consumption lead to various problems, e.g. that dirt in the sewage lines doesnt get flushed downstreams to the sewage processing plants anymore and cloggs up the pipes, causing expensive maintenance, which drives sewage costs up. Or potable water pipes which will have to be flushed by simply opening fire hydrants to let the water run out (flushing the sewage system at the same time), to prevent the water from becoming stagnant and contaminated with bacteria in the water pipes.

Jan


User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7500 times:

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 22):
it sucked at cleaning dishes

If a Hobart built Kitchen Aid appliance does not perform it needs a repair of some sort. Period.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
25 sccutler : Singin' my song. When wifie and I got married (30 years ago!!!), mother in law gave us her "old" Maytag washer and dryer (probably vintage 1971 or so)
26 Post contains images ImperialEagle : Maytag began as a company that built superior farm-implements. Then they added gas stoves and wringer-washers. Many a farm-wife was delighted to have
27 TheCommodore : You get what you pay for at the end of the day. We have them here in Australia too. They are what the majority of people have in their homes. I made
28 Fr8mech : I've changed the transmission coupler on a 12 year old washing machine...the thing lasted another 5 years until the tub finally rusted out. I've chan
29 Aesma : Here front loaders are common too, although top loaders have a place in condos where space is limited, stacked between other things. I must say I have
30 MD11Engineer : As a mechanic for me throwing something repairable away is like surrendering. The problem though is that I have my barn full of old machines, where I
31 Post contains links Fr8mech : My opinion: the reason there is an increase in the 'need' for these types of products is the new, low water usage technology being used in modern was
32 Post contains images RyanairGuru : Living in the UK for 16 years is probably part of it, but I wouldn't go back to a top-loader. One that hasn't been mentioned yet: COMPUTERS. When I w
33 ImperialEagle : Yes they are junk and you were lucky to get six years out of it. The REAL reason they sell a detergent to clean the washing machine is that there has
34 solarflyer22 : I'm going to have jump in on the side that newer is better. I like to purchase products made in the USA wherever possible though its true that Miele a
35 DiamondFlyer : So basically, you want to say "GET OFF MY LAWN". To hell with trying to do the right thing environmentally. Quite frankly, I prefer the front loaders
36 StuckInCA : I'd start planning a replacement budget. From what I understand, these things are now designed with a 10 year lifespan under "normal" use. Of course,
37 WarRI1 : We are on our fourth cloths washer in 46 years. We just replaced the third. Our last one lasted 7 years, and literally exploded during the high spin c
38 kl838 : The average person doesn't bother with replacing or fixing any of their appliances, my dad's business is to sell and provide parts and service for Ele
39 daviation : I don't agree with this premise at all. I've had American-made appliances of all kinds - oven, range, front-loading washer, refrigerator - and they ha
40 zckls04 : I also agree that newer is better; you just have to not buy the absolute cheapest rubbish available. The newer appliances just do a better job, period
41 type-rated : That's what you are supposed to do. Just get rid of the large chunks of food and put the dishes, unrinsed in the dishwasher. Why? Because today's dis
42 StuckInCA : I'm not sure what to add.
43 Max Q : Superfly that is the epitome of cool !
44 mham001 : I was ecstatic to buy an early front loading Maytag Neptune about 15 years ago. Running off a small solar power system and well water pumped by solar,
45 Post contains links and images MIAspotter : I remember back in 1986 my mom bought a Panasonic VHS, that thing was rock solid and lasted until 2002, I watched endless movies, my mom recorded her
46 MD11Engineer : Actually in Germany, and especially in the former GDR, water vand sewage treatment facilities are often overdimensioned due to an expected developmen
47 ImperialEagle : Not sure what you mean by that but I prefer to remain on-topic with this. Yes, unfortunately it is a POS. IF you still have time return them! Then go
48 offloaded : Probably a rather unusual purchase for a house in rural Gloucestershire, England back then, but in the 50s, my aunt and uncle bought an American GE co
49 Revelation : That's surprising. Aren't you Swiss the ones with rifles in the closets ready to go off to war at a moment's notice? Seems you'd be better at dealing
50 Flighty : In case nobody said so, I want to add vacuums. We had a great GE vacuum from the 1960s. Its parts must have been all metal. It NEVER broke. It was qui
51 DiamondFlyer : I'm saying the that you're complaining about new appliances and how they don't seem to wash, compared to the old ones, in either time or "quality". W
52 Fr8mech : Frequently at the expense of quality and/or efficiency. Which means the appliance may need to be replaced/repaired more often which, in turn means th
53 bhill : Ha ha ..timely post..I just performed a "tub bearing and tub seal" replacement in a ...ahem..."Maytag Atlantis" washer...it ain't the Maytags I rememb
54 WarRI1 : Thanks, I never gave them a thought.
55 Post contains images zckls04 : Context, perhaps ? I can't be bothered to research a fairly insignificant fact for the dubious benefit of some complete strangers, but I can be bothe
56 sccutler : I am tickled to have learned this, as well; wish I had known before we bought our last set. I used to work on Speed Queen units when I worked for a c
57 zkojq : All the large appliances in my family's kitchen are Fisher and Paykel. F&P is a reasonably good brand. Some of their products, such as the DishDr
58 MD-90 : My mom has a Speed Queen and it's pretty nice. Doesn't hold a huge load but it washes fast and well and it's built like a tank.
59 Post contains links and images zippyjet : One of the best non-aviation threads so far this year! That's coming from the dude who never gets tired of would you hit it threads! Time for a Zippyj
60 Post contains images ImperialEagle : I wonder if they are the (Magic Chef produced) "Performa" series----actually a re-badged Magic Chef/Norge----because the Original "Dependable" Maytag
61 Post contains images zippyjet : Because they have reduced the amount of water to the point where they can no longer drive the arm!------ DUH! Government intervention at it's best. Be
62 Post contains images ImperialEagle : I have some friends in the appliance repair business in the D.C. area. One of them has a Hobart Commercial unit that looks just like a regular older
63 zippyjet : True that but those machines use boiling water and super harsh commercial chemical detergents. I don't even think commercial phosphate Cascade is use
64 type-rated : It's called flash drying. And let's not even get started on the Amanatag machines (model SAV series). Those were the worst of all for reliability. Bu
65 Post contains links and images zippyjet : Raymond Lowey the famous industrial designer designed the Good And Plenty boxes along with the Lucky Strike Cigarrette packages. By the way up till r
66 Post contains images type-rated : I just wasn't aware that Lowey designed the Good N' Plenty and Fedders a/c units. He also designed the twin globes used in TWA's logo, he designed the
67 ImperialEagle : Oh, it sure does bump up the water temps. I live in a hard-water area so I like the commercial detergents. I still use good old regular Cascade. The
68 WarRI1 : They are based in Ripon Wisconsin, as the Alliance Laundry Systems, formerly owned by Bain Capital. Ripon Wisconsin, the Birthplace of the Republican
69 WarRI1 : Mine still does after 23 years, a great unit. I have to run it around eighty degrees to keep it from freezing my fanny. It is a split unit.
70 MD-90 : I don't know what model she has but it's not as commodious as her previous Whirlpool $1000 wonder washer (top loader since a front loader won't fit i
71 type-rated : Friedrich's were the most common air conditioner I saw all through the south going back to the 60's & 70's. Not only were they known for excellent
72 Post contains links and images zippyjet : They were big in Maryland, (part of the South). The Weather Wheel Fedders were abundant from the 1950's through mid to late 1960's. Friedrich's start
73 ImperialEagle : The WORST NIGHTMARE of new appliances. They are made as cheaply as possible in quantities so vast they cannot control the quality-----even if they wa
74 WildcatYXU : Well, I had a Goldstar (LG's predecessor) combo microwave oven in the old country. Best appliance I ever had and I was really sorry that we had to se
75 ImperialEagle : They didn't, and they won't. Call an Independent Appliance Repair service and ask them what they think. Time changes everything.
76 Post contains links and images zippyjet : Imagine living in Miami/Miami Beach in the prehistoric era BA (before air conditioning)! My mom went to Miami Beach Sr. High in the late 40's and it
77 ImperialEagle : Yes, I heard about that as well. By the time I came along they had those huge waterfall-on-slats units on the roof and froze you when you walked in t
78 racko : Bought both a Miele washer and drier 12 years ago because my grandfather insisted on Miele, basically describing any other brand as throwing money out
79 nickh : My folks had an old Montgomery-Ward* refrigerator that they bought in the mid 1970s that worked flawlessly through many power spikes, outages, etc.,
80 corocks : I got a Thermador Stovetop, Oven, Microwave, and Dishwasher about a year ago. Absolutely love them!
81 Max Q : Wow, good times..
82 kiwirob : I don't see there being much difference between what a kiwi or aussie does with an F&P appliance than what an American would do with one. F&P
83 kiwirob : Left it too late to revise my above post so here goes. How much extra abuse do US users give their whiteware? What makes Americans any harder on appl
84 ImperialEagle : There you go! You won't get that with a new one! There you go. Not 2 years old. There really is a difference. In the US laundry equipment is horribly
85 kiwirob : 7 years as per what you quoted not two. I'm not worried my mother in law has a 30+ year old Siemens dishwasher that's still going strong.
86 ImperialEagle : Yeah, well if they made the new ones like they did the old ones there wouldn't be any use for a thread like this!
87 kiwirob : Yeah but people also dump the old ones which are still working properly because they are energy hogs and generally very loud. If they also built them
88 AA757MIA : A week ago, I bought a 3 year old (I remember when she bought them) GE washer/dryer set from a friend. Both worked just fine the first time, now the d
89 ImperialEagle : I strongly disagree. Although, I would say the diswashers were louder because they used a tad more water and really worked. An old "center-dial" Mayt
90 Post contains images cptkrell : ...as well as the Air Force One livery, still unchanged to this date. But, back to appliances. Over the years we have had good luck with the Maytag b
91 PPVRA : Like having to re-wash dishes or clothing because you're using High-Efficiency "environmentally friendly" machines.
92 Post contains images ImperialEagle : Oooh. Good luck with that. Hope you bought all the extended warranty you could get! Yeah. Where's the savings when you have to do everything twice? M
93 mirrodie : wow, great thread that hits a nerve with quite a few here that are fed up with our disposable society! We're just moving into our probably forever hom
94 Post contains images Superfly : We had a similar air conditioner when we lived in SoCal. Our original air conditioner that came with the place when it was built in 1962 blew very st
95 casinterest : Oh, hell to the no. I have had Honda's and I have had a buick. I drove 2 Hondas to 200,000 miles with minimal normal MTC. I had to replace the Intake
96 oly720man : Rant on..... My parents have a top loading washing machine of some American make. A while ago they were driven beyond distraction by a problem with it
97 Post contains images Superfly : Speaking of people throwing away stuff over minor things. I remember several years ago, my Dell Dimension needed some parts. There were some old files
98 andz : I didn't read the whole thread but my parents have a side by side GE fridge/freezer that they bought in November 1974 and neither has left the kitche
99 ImperialEagle : Experience in restoration as well as close friends in both the appliance and repair business. All the US made icemakers come from one source. The ind
100 oly720man : The washing machine is Admiral. The service company covers a number of brands, afaik. They have 2 service engineers and my parents got the bad one. T
101 ImperialEagle : Yes. And all these policies have some fine print somewhere that gives the manufacturer/repair technicians an "out" to "disclaim" something as having
102 Post contains images Confuscius : I believe she was wearing a pearl necklace. You gave me that computer after I transferred the floppy drive to your other computer. I upgraded it and
103 Post contains images Superfly : Yes and had a mouth-full as well. Yes. ...and the moral of the story is to not be so quick to throw out electronics and appliances away. With those p
104 Confuscius : Right, facial cream too. I still have a box full of old computer parts despite having recycled most of them this year. Nope, it was wiped of all priv
105 Superfly : Some believe semen applied to the face has anti-aging benefits. So I found the images educational. Next time you're in town, I've got to show you Pan
106 zippyjet : Imagine if such stalwarts of the lemon were still alive and kicking in today's motherboard, wimpy powered in the name of ecology appliances! I'm refer
107 mirrodie : It was time. Miss it though. Just got in from changing the window motor on the 2000 Nissan. 115K miles on it. The Honda, well, lets just say I was le
108 mirrodie : YMMV for sure. Driving a round a 2010 Honda pilot and a defective mirror and later, front compliance bushings were not covered even though I was well
109 kiwirob : My grandmothers 1st gen 1970's Honda Civic with hondamatic tranny is still going strong with well over 300,000km on the clock, all we do to it is fil
110 Post contains links mirrodie : Guess the don't make rm like they used to, kiwi rob. Nothing but bs here. Anyway, came across the following this morning, as it relates to the origina
111 ImperialEagle : They change the criteria too often to compare apples to apples. Has always been a problem with CU. So they would test how well Maytags could get out
112 zippyjet : I.E. Actually, CU standardizes their tests. I know for dishwashers and DW detergents, they always describe their custom made slop they lard on the di
113 ImperialEagle : I disagree Zippy. They take a certain model of each manufacturers machine and rate them, say in January for cleaning ability, and then the same machi
114 Post contains images zippyjet : Cool, do you still use it for towells and heavy duty stuff like blankets and denim? Was it gas or electric? Imperial E: If it still works please film
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