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Crappy New Heavy Appliances In The US  
User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7863 times:

For the last twenty years or so there has been a concerted effort by the manufacturers of heavy appliances to "dumb down" Americans into thinking they will be lucky to get five years of service from their new appliances. Pi$$ poor quality and lack of reliability. Cheap parts and systems that cannot be repaired. Poorly trained or inept repair people who are themselves being phased-out but in the meantime those "factory service" companies are still reaping the harvest of "basic services charges" while spending no time on the job to simply advise you to "throw-out the old and buy new"!

Here's the rant:

I am STUNNED to look through Craigslist and see all the people who want to get rid of their old Maytag Washer because it needs a belt. Or they get rid of a perfectly good and fully functional old KitchenAid (by Hobart) dishwasher just because they are remodeling! DUH!

You can replace a belt, pump or timer on an old Maytag with a screwdriver and five minutes of your time and get another 30 years good service out of it. For NO amount of money can you get that level of performance or quality on today's market. All those "front-load" washers they are pushing on the American public nowadays can't even do a good job washing-out office dust. Just look at all the products they sell to "wash" your new front-load machine with! That is to rid it of the hidden bacterial black jelly that grows in the dark confines of the machine you can't see. Like washing your clothes in a cesspool. Who ever hear of our parents needing a product to "wash" the washing machine?

The don't even make Maytags anymore! The company went bust from mis-management six years ago and Whirlpool bought the name. They Just "re-badge" their Whirlpool crap with a Maytag label and jack the price. Same thing they did when they bought KitchenAid from Hobart.
Gone are the days your GE, Whirlpool, or just about any other make Washer will last more than about five years. Ridiculous! That goes for refrigerators, stoves, and clothes dryers as well. They are being manufactured in other countries using cheap plastic parts and cheap electronic "mother Boards" that are often delivered new from the factory defective.

Speed Queen ( a VERY old American manufacturer of Washers and Dryers) is the only decent brand left being sold here nowadays. They still use steel internal parts, they are Made In America, and they have the best "from the factory" warranty in the business. They control their quality so tightly you have to get them through small independent appliance stores.

KitchenAid by Hobart used to be the very best dishwasher you could get. Now you can spend three-thousand dollars for a dishwasher that will only give you so so results---and take two hours to do it!
The old KitchenAids were considered to be a "Hurricane in a Box". They used plenty of water and could wash a load of filthy dishes and (fan) dry them in about 35 minutes. Now the new machines just piss a quart or two of water around for a couple of hours in the hopes the enzymes in the detergent can knock the soil down some.

AND, you had better buy that extended Warranty! As much of it as you can get!
If you read the "fine print" of the manufacturer's one year warranty you will see that they can claim a "power-surge" beyond their control destroyed the "mother board" and "voids" the warranty. They charge you for the service call and walk out the door leaving you to have to purchase a new replacement---hopefully ANOTHER one of their brand.

Now, people on radio talk shows may advise against it, but, they get paid to give advice they don't have to follow.
Also, they will not be there to pay for your replacement refrigerator or washer when the two-week old unit that "fried" is put out on the curb for the re-cyclers.

Whats your experience? How long did your Mom and Dads appliances last?
Whats you're rant?


"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
114 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 3012 posts, RR: 46
Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7803 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
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This is interesting. In this country we've always had front-loading washing machines, and I've never seen any of them being user-serviceable, unless you're some kind of hobby mechanic.

I was amused when I saw the top-loading washing machines when I first visited the US. They looked so heavy-duty and "not nice" to me. I know washing machines are supposed to be functional, not stylish, but they just seemed plain ugly to me. "Oh, these are like those you see in the movies", I thought.

Nevertheless, the front-loading machines we use in Switzerland have a quite long life. Definitely 10+ years. Maybe not 30, but not 5 either.

So are you saying that any end-user should be able to replace a belt on a US vintage top-loading washing machine, or dryer? That's pretty much unheard of over here.

I love those cultural differences  



Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3588 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7793 times:
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I own a ten year old house, still has the original appliances. GE fridge, dishwasher, and stove. Whirlpool washer/dryer.

Had to power off the fridge once to deice the water supply line to ice maker & water dispenser. I put a door switch in the dryer a year or so ago. Other than that no issues.

YouTube is a good resource for minor appliance repairs BTW.



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User currently onlinezanl188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3588 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7787 times:
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Quoting ManuCH (Reply 1):
So are you saying that any end-user should be able to replace a belt on a US vintage top-loading washing machine, or dryer? That's pretty much unheard of over here.

Which is unheard of? Needing a belt or the owner doing the work?



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User currently offlineManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 3012 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7783 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 3):
Which is unheard of? Needing a belt or the owner doing the work?

The owner doing the work. People here usually call some company to do it. Nobody would dare to open those things themselves.



Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40066 posts, RR: 74
Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7749 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Thread starter):
Whats your experience? How long did your Mom and Dads appliances last?
Whats you're rant?

Most of our appliances lasted forever. Many of the places I've rented had older appliances (1980s & 1990s vintage) that worked just fine.
About 15 years ago, the washing machine in the house I was renting had broke. It was an old Sears brand. I forgot what part it was but it was only a 2-digit part number. The guy at the service center had laughed at me because he said that part went out of production in 1966. It most likely was old as the house which was built in 1957.
That machine lasted 40 years. It sure danced around a lot in the basement when it was working.
Me & my roommates pitched in an bought a new machine and it only lasted only 5 years. Then again, we bought the cheapest one. Not sure how reliable the new top quality units last.

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 1):
I know washing machines are supposed to be functional, not stylish, but they just seemed plain ugly to me.

You've got to get one in avocado green.  




I looked a retro house or should I say a house that was never remodeled a few years ago in San Francisco.
It was owned by an elderly lady that eventually passed away. That house had so much history in it. This house was like a time capsule. Lots of old appliances and technology that still worked. The house was build in 1961 and for sale by the children of the original owner. They wanted $1.9 million dollars which is a steel in San Francisco.
It had the avocado green kitchen will original working appliances. Even the dishwasher and old style refrigerator worked. The only old 'appliance' that didn't work was the old Sentinal television set. It had the old style green tube.
The house had a remote intercom system to communicate between the garage, kitchen and master bedroom. It was a wide ranch style home.


http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj96/Rush8track/DreamHouse028_zps73b03979.jpg



http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj96/Rush8track/DreamHouse001.jpg


Something I don't see in new homes is an indoor, industrial grade grill. You can have a summertime barbeque even thought it's a rainstorm outside.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj96/Rush8track/DreamHouse026.jpg


http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj96/Rush8track/DreamHouse027.jpg



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8951 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7731 times:

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 1):
Nevertheless, the front-loading machines we use in Switzerland have a quite long life. Definitely 10+ years. Maybe not 30, but not 5 either.

The Miele washer and dryer in my parents' house in Switzerland were delivered in 1962, and worked flawlessly for over 40 years until they were replaced about 10 years ago. The "new" units are already falling apart and ready to be replaced.

Same story with the dishwasher and electric ovens in the house - the ovens lasted also 40 years, the dishwasher maybe 30 years, and their replacements are lucky to last 10.

Of course, such machines in Switzerland in the early 60s cost a small fortune and were built accordingly. The new machines are literally half the weight of the old units, or less. I remember almost injuring myself removing the two old ovens, and how shocked I was at how light the new ones were.

In the US, the last really sturdy line of refrigerators were the old GE units from the 70s and early 80s. I still have one in the garage for drinks, and it still works great.

It's called "built-in obsolescence", and it's where the manufacturer makes sure that you are back on the market for a new unit after a few years, rather than vanish for a generation or two.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40066 posts, RR: 74
Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7718 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
In the US, the last really sturdy line of refrigerators were the old GE units from the 70s and early 80s. I still have one in the garage for drinks, and it still works great.

That's right. My parents bought a puke yellow General Electric refrigerator in 1977.
It was one of the first ones with the water fountain and ice dispenser.
We gave it to an uncle in 1984 when we moved and he still has it today.
However that refrigerator cost my parents $700 back in 1977. That was a LOT of money back then for a refrigerator. That was almost half the price of a brand new Ford Pinto or Toyota Corolla.


What ever happened to the brand Thermador?




Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7966 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7713 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
The Miele washer and dryer in my parents' house in Switzerland were delivered in 1962, and worked flawlessly for over 40 years

I have a Miele too which is now 13 years old but will certainly do another 10 years. Seems you can't go wrong with Kitchen Aid or Miele appliances.

Heavy appliances don't seem to be problem, but printers are and - most importantly! - espresso machines.   I am back to a stovetop espresso maker because I no longer wish to afford a 1,000 Euro / 15 kg machine that calls itself heavy duty but goes boink or plopp after only two years. GrrrrGGGGRRRRrrrrr!



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 9, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7699 times:

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 4):
Quoting zanl188 (Reply 3):
Which is unheard of? Needing a belt or the owner doing the work?

The owner doing the work. People here usually call some company to do it. Nobody would dare to open those things themselves.

I bought a rather low end frontloader washing machine back in 2001 after I split with my ex and moved into a place of my own (I was quite broke at this time). It has been made by some obscure brand named "Siltal" and was sold by the now closed Walmart store in CGN. It had the advantage that it would fit into the back of my old Suzuki Samurai and, using a mover´s strap, I could even pack it on my back and carry it four flights of stairs into my flat (still quite heavy).
It has been in weekly use since then (usually three loads per week, sorted by colours and usually one load of dirty working clothes). I only had to fix it once some years ago after the drive belt jumped off it´s pulleys. I would always do some troubleshooting myself before calling the service, and if possible fix the fault myself. On the other hand I´m a qualified mechanic.

But I agree that with many appliances and equipment nowadays cheap or underdimensioned parts are built in to make sure that the appliance breaks down, preferably just after the warranty period is over.

Jan


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6925 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7698 times:

The European Union is drafting regulations to battle built-in obsolescence and non-repairability, we'll see how it goes. Nobody will want to pay as much as what our parents paid, though, but I'm sure wonders can be done without too much investment.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8951 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7698 times:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 8):
Heavy appliances don't seem to be problem, but printers are and - most importantly! - espresso machines.   I am back to a stovetop espresso maker because I no longer wish to afford a 1,000 Euro / 15 kg machine that calls itself heavy duty but goes boink or plopp after only two years. GrrrrGGGGRRRRrrrrr!

I've had a couple of those. I learned the hard way that the key is either a) a rigorous maintenance cycle, where you de-calc the machine once a week whether you think you need it or not, or b) you run the machine with distilled water only. If you let the machine calc up, you've had it.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6925 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7673 times:

An uncle of mine builds machines to purify water, there are several models, one of which is used to remove calcium from water, that could probably help the coffee machine. One machine is entirely mechanical with many gears, lots of R&D got into it, then he discovered the Chinese had made a copy with cheap electronics instead of the mechanics, now he has an agreement with them and sells both, the Chinese one is good for the trash when it breaks. The mechanical one is used by hospitals and such.

Another uncle is into really heavy duty washing machines, many meters long ones which wash by the ton, then dry, then iron, then fold and pack clothes or sheets. He doesn't build new ones, but rather modernize old ones and sell them for cheaper than the new ones you can buy from big manufacturers that are extremely expensive. He will replace analog controls by computer ones, etc. He also sells spare parts from salvaged machines, often parts that he doesn't use for his conversions. It's incredible how many clients he has all over the world, looking for such parts for decades old machines, because the manufacturer doesn't want to produce new parts.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineArmitageShanks From UK - England, joined Dec 2003, 3645 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7649 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Thread starter):
Or they get rid of a perfectly good and fully functional old KitchenAid (by Hobart) dishwasher just because they are remodeling! DUH!
Quoting Superfly (Reply 5):
Even the dishwasher and old style refrigerator worked.

We just remodeled our kitchen and ditched all the old appliances. We had that exact same green dishwasher and trash compactor. They were built in 1970 I believe. They were absolute CRAP appliances. Sure, they were solid and lasted 40 years but they were ugly, noisy, and not really good at their job. They took forever, were loud, and used a ton of electricity. We replaced them with efficient stainless steel models and couldn't be happier.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7642 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 12):
It's incredible how many clients he has all over the world, looking for such parts for decades old machines, because the manufacturer doesn't want to produce new parts.

It is the same with industrial machine tools. Often the mechanical parts e.g. of a CNC mill from the 1980s is still ok, but omething in the computers is damaged. There is still a market for oldstyle pre-VGA monitors and old microprocessors.

Jan


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40066 posts, RR: 74
Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7634 times:

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 13):
Sure, they were solid and lasted 40 years but they were ugly, noisy, and not really good at their job. They took forever, were loud, and used a ton of electricity. We replaced them with efficient stainless steel models and couldn't be happier.

That hasn't been my experience. The one appliance I prefer to be loud is the air conditioner. The air conditioner in my condo here in Bangkok is like having a Boeing 707 spooling up over my bed. It puts me to sleep faster and drowns out any outside noise.
I do like the looks of the new stainless steel kitchen appliances.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7822 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7611 times:

If you want appliances that will last forever buy Gaggenau, if you have stupid amounts of money to spend buy AGA, Electrolux Grand Cuisine or Molteni. There are two reasons to dump old working appliances, first is they don't fit in with modern design and the second is they use huge amounts of electricity, significantly more than modern appliances.

User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7606 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 15):
That hasn't been my experience. The one appliance I prefer to be loud is the air conditioner. The air conditioner in my condo here in Bangkok is like having a Boeing 707 spooling up over my bed. It puts me to sleep faster and drowns out any outside noise.

The airconditioner I have in my bedroom (in a converted attic under a black slate roof, in summer it tends to heat up to 50 degrees centigrade and I can´t sleep there like this after nightshift) is quite noisy. I don´t mind the continous noise, but the compressor starting and stopping (and a big contactor inside) always give a start.

Jan


User currently offlineSpaceshipDC10 From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 2044 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7594 times:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 8):
but printers

Well I still use my old HP960c I bought in 2002. It still works well when I need it. While I'm at it, I still use my old Dell desk top computer that is almost 12 years old. Until a year and a half ago it worked almost perfectly. Since it has become a bit of a snail after it slightly overheated because of a very comfy layer of dust inside.



I wish I was a glow worm.
User currently offlinetype-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7566 times:

It's not that hard to take to cover off of a Dell laptop and use a soft paintbrush and a can of air to clean it out. If it has a P4 processor inside it will slow down by 20% if the temp sensor detects an overheat condition.

In our last house we had that GE P7 stacked oven, in avocado too. Best oven we ever owned. It held temperatures rock solid. Nothing could beat it's self cleaning abilities. It came with the house which was built in 1969.

I am aware of the "don't fix it, just throw it away and buy a new one" mentality. Same thing happened with our washer. A small part broke and three different washer service companies told me it would be too expensive to fix just throw the machine away.
I found the part needed online for $25.00 and repaired it myself.

Also be aware of any contracts you may have concerning cell phones or cable/sat service. A friend of mine's wife got a phone call in March from Verizon telling her that her cell phone contract was going to expire very soon and if she didn't want her cell phone disconnected she would have to renew her contract IMMEDIATELY! So she renewed for another two years. When she told her husband, he checked their contract. They had another 6 months to go on the current contract. Let me tell you, if your contract expires they won't disconnect you. You'll just go month to month. These companies prey on people who don't have any idea how these things work.


User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12876 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7562 times:
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Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):

Now that's what I call a front-loader!  Wow!



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana! #44cHAMpion
User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7530 times:

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 1):
In this country we've always had front-loading washing machines

Yes and those manufacturers that provide your machines have gone down a learning curve and provide you with decent products-----at the moment---maybe. Trust me---greed and time will change that just like it did here in the US ------UNLESS the citizens of your country raise hell and refuse to buy crap! In our country people are like dumb sheep. Whatever the appliance manufacturers or the Government tells them---they believe!
"Oh the front-loaders save SOOOOO much money----use sooooo much less detergent and water, etc.
Well that may be so if you do six loads of laundry every day of the year. But if you are like most normal people you do two or three loads a week. At that rate it would take ten years or so to realize any significant cost savings and the damned thing will be dead before that anyway. We are still pretty lucky here in the US because water is still pretty cheap in the big picture. What the Government does NOT say is that it is the WATER that cleans the clothes or your dishes! What a concept! What are we supposed to do? Use buckets of dust to wash with?  
Quoting ManuCH (Reply 1):
the front-loading machines we use in Switzerland have a quite long life

Well, I wish all of ya'll well in the future because the new stuff sold here in the US is crap for the most part and Americans are dumb enough to just take it without protest. "Can I have another sir?". Get a year or two out of a new refrigerator and set it out on the curb when the mother-board fries. Go buy another.

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 2):
I own a ten year old house, still has the original appliances. GE fridge, dishwasher, and stove. Whirlpool washer/dryer.

For heavens sake hang on to them until they die! Find an old repairman who knows how to work on them and they will last forever. Nowadays the young repair-droids have never even seen an old machine before. They are taught to tell you the parts are now NLA and you just need to throw it out and buy new. Of course, they don't mention that the new trash cannot be repaired at all if it craps-out!

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 4):
Nobody would dare to open those things themselves.

Well, there are a lot of the old designs that were fairly complicated---at least you needed some mechanical experience to work on them. The old Maytags were very simple which is why they lasted forever. All you had to do to change the belts was lean the machine back against the wall behind it and reach under the bottom of the machine. You could change them by hand. Don't even need a screw-driver.  
Quoting Superfly (Reply 5):
Most of our appliances lasted forever

Yes, those were the days   

Quoting Superfly (Reply 5):
It was an old Sears

Likely an old belt-drive built for Sears by Whirlpool (back when Whirlpool's were great machines!).

Quoting Superfly (Reply 5):
Even the dishwasher

THAT is an old Hobart-built Kitchen Aid! Those are the best dishwashers EVER and anyone who says their's needs replacing either has a repair issue or their machine needs refurbishment.
NOTHING new on the market cleans and dries like that at any price---bar none!
Those were the "Hurricane in a Box" machines. They were loud because they used WATER! What a concept!     
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
The Miele washer and dryer in my parents' house in Switzerland were delivered in 1962, and worked flawlessly for over 40 years until they were replaced about 10 years ago. The "new" units are already falling apart and ready to be replaced.

It's a shame. Miele is no different these days. I think they make the best imported dishwashers for the American market. They just take take forever to do a cycle because our Government is forcing the manufacturers to use less and less water at the expense of sacrificing performance. Duh! I bought an expensive as hell Miele upright vacuum cleaner a few years ago and really like it. It is a bit cumbersome and heavy to use yet does a good job. We'll see how long it lasts.
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
It's called "built-in obsolescence", and it's where the manufacturer makes sure that you are back on the market for a new unit after a few years, rather than vanish for a generation or two.

Yes, and it is damned annoying.   The thing that has really changed with time is that the large companies who now manufacture most brands under the GE or Whirlpool label depend on Americans who remember how their parents machines lasted forever. They are counting on people to buy their NEW crap based on previous experience with the brand. What the customer is now discovering is that there is no point in buying a more expensive unit because the added price no longer buys a higher level of quality. The name Whirlpool and GE no longer stand for quality.
It's a real shame.
And now we have a big Asian firm called LG that is selling their poorly built plastic crap. They don't even have a service network built-up here yet. I see people at the "big box" appliance stores buying LG crap and I cringe just knowing whats in store for them. Good luck! They will need it!

Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
What ever happened to the brand Thermador?

They are still around. I have a friend who just bought about 75K worth of their new stuff for his estate kitchen. Half of it was either defective or damaged---new out of the box! Ridiculous!

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 8):
Seems you can't go wrong with Kitchen Aid or Miele appliances.

Sorry to say it but Hobart sold-off their "home" division of Kitchen Aid appliances back in the late eighties to Whirlpool. For the first five years or so Whirlpool did not fool around with them. Then by the mid-ninties they began to cheapen the products just like they did with all the other labels they built for. Now a Kitchen Aid dishwasher is just a Whirlpool with a different label. Plastic crap.
Miele too---ain't what they used to be and never will be again.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 10):
drafting regulations to battle built-in obsolescence and non-repairability,

OMG! Good for them! I don't usually care much for Government interference in the free market yet that sounds like a good thing for consumers--------at least until the manufacturers find a way around it.   

Quoting Aesma (Reply 12):
Another uncle is into really heavy duty washing machines, many meters long ones which wash by the ton, then dry, then iron, then fold and pack clothes or sheets. He doesn't build new ones, but rather modernize old ones and sell them for cheaper than the new ones you can buy from big manufacturers that are extremely expensive. He will replace analog controls by computer ones, etc. He also sells spare parts from salvaged machines, often parts that he doesn't use for his conversions. It's incredible how many clients he has all over the world, looking for such parts for decades old machines, because the manufacturer doesn't want to produce new parts.

I would LOVE to meet him! I also tinker with old appliance restoration in my spare time however not on the level of your uncle.

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 13):
and couldn't be happier.

O.K. Mazel! You will need it!

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 13):
ditched all the old appliances.

Remember who gave you the bad news! You will rue the day you got rid of the old stuff. You will see. Sorry.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 16):
There are two reasons to dump old working appliances, first is they don't fit in with modern design and the second is they use huge amounts of electricity, significantly more than modern appliances.

It cannot be denied that the old stuff LOOKS old. I have a pair of 1962 Maytags in Turquoise. Yeah, they look dated but they are gorgeous! (They are still going strong and perform beautifully!)

As far as the amount of energy the old stuff uses, there are plenty of times that the difference is slight. A single person or two to three people in a household does not consume a significant amount of water/electricity compared to a family of ten! Things have to be put into prospective. I heard a sales-pitch from an Electrolux/White-Westinghouse rep once who went on and on about how much water and detergent their new front-loaders could save. What he didn't mention was that it would take TWO loads to wash the same amount of clothing a top-loader could do in ONE load. There isn't a bit of savings.

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 13):
noisy

It's noisy because it uses water to clean with!



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineArmitageShanks From UK - England, joined Dec 2003, 3645 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7516 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 21):
It's noisy because it uses water to clean with!

That's the thing... it sucked at cleaning dishes. Don't even get me started on that crappy trash compactor.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7507 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 21):
Those were the "Hurricane in a Box" machines. They were loud because they used WATER! What a concept!

Over here we have been told since the 1970s to save water. Water consumption has gone down big time since then, partially also because water (and sewage, which is calculated from the amount of fresh water used) have become quite expensive.
Now some countries have a problem with water shortages, but Germany is definitely not onr of them (watching the rain outside while I type this post).
The decrease of water consumption lead to various problems, e.g. that dirt in the sewage lines doesnt get flushed downstreams to the sewage processing plants anymore and cloggs up the pipes, causing expensive maintenance, which drives sewage costs up. Or potable water pipes which will have to be flushed by simply opening fire hydrants to let the water run out (flushing the sewage system at the same time), to prevent the water from becoming stagnant and contaminated with bacteria in the water pipes.

Jan


User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7476 times:

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 22):
it sucked at cleaning dishes

If a Hobart built Kitchen Aid appliance does not perform it needs a repair of some sort. Period.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlinesccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5615 posts, RR: 28
Reply 25, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7590 times:

Singin' my song.

When wifie and I got married (30 years ago!!!), mother in law gave us her "old" Maytag washer and dryer (probably vintage 1971 or so), and those traveled with us to California and back, serving well with the following repairs: 1. New drain hose on washer; 2. New timing motor; 3. New heating element on dryer. I did those repairs myself, very easily.

We finally replaced these both with new Maytags, which were apparently new enough that they were not nearly as good; very disappointing. Still, they lasted us ten years or so, and the dryer was still working just fine, but the washer was in severe distress (transmission was failing), so we replaced both, giving the dryer to a family in need, where it soldiers on still.

We still have a Kitchen Aid by Hobart dishwasher, pretty much identical to the one shown above (and it was olive green when new, too!), and it soldiers on without issue. It is noisy, but I could not care less, as we are typically in bed when it's running. It is 46 years old now.

The Sears Kenmore range we bought when we bough the house (1992 - my how time, she flies) stopped holding temp, and Sears told me the controller was no longer available (think it was OEMed from Whirlpool, not sure). I would have gladly replaced it with a manual controller for $30.00, but found a guy in Oklahoma who reworked it and sent it back perfect, less than a C-note. Rest of the range is fine (what's to wear out? It's wire and heating elements!).

I salute any effort to discourage the "throwaway" mentality - very rarely do we achieve any meaningful improvement in function when appliances are replaced, and the old units so often end up in landfills. As a true fiscal conservative, I hate waste, so here's a place where a conservative is "green" and promoting conservation.



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Reply 26, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7528 times:

Quoting sccutler (Reply 25):
We finally replaced these both with new Maytags, which were apparently new enough that they were not nearly as good; very disappointing. Still, they lasted us ten years or so, and the dryer was still working just fine, but the washer was in severe distress (transmission was failing), so we replaced both, giving the dryer to a family in need, where it soldiers on still.

Maytag began as a company that built superior farm-implements. Then they added gas stoves and wringer-washers. Many a farm-wife was delighted to have a washing machine and in the 1920's most farms had no electricity. Maytag made gasoline-powered wringer-washers with very dependable little engines. There was a little start-pedal that was easy to push. They also had an "agitator" that really worked. During WWII Maytag supplied a million gasoline wringer-washers to the soldiers in the field so they could have clean clothes. After WWII they began their long-line of dependable Automatic Washers and all those soldiers remembered what had washed their clothes during the war! Best "PR" Maytag ever had! Word of mouth did the rest. Maytag provided a superior machine.
When the last of the Maytag family members passed-on (Bud Maytag of National Airlines fame) the company was taken over by a bunch of corporate miss-fits. They began to cheapen the products right away. They switched the tried and true washer transmissions to a "short-stroke" "Orbital" design which did not prove as reliable as the old "Newton" units. They designed (at GREAT expense) a new front-load washer and dryer set called the "Neptune". These debuted in about 1997. Then the company went on a buying spree. Since they had no experience with refrigeration they bought Amana. They then cherry-picked that design and still managed to ruin it. The early (and expensive) Maytag refrigerators were a nightmare for both consumer and that (not so lonely by then) Maytag repairman. They had already purchased Jenn-Aire for some TOL products so they then bought Magic Chef to be sure they had a large established factory down in Tennessee to manufacture POS appliances. In the meantime the public was discovering that the Maytag name no longer stood for quality in many of their product line. By 2004 they were broke.
Whirlpool bought them out and immediately layed-off all those wonderful employees who had built the "Cadillac" of American washers for years. They then finally shut-down the old Maytag plant in Newton, Iowa.
Anything built since then with a Maytag label is REALLY a Whirlpool in disguise. Plastic crap.

BTW, The Maytag farm is all that is left that is really "Maytag". If you live here in the US and enjoy Blue Cheese and White Cheddar, the Maytag Farm sells some award winning stuff! Just go online.   

Quoting sccutler (Reply 25):
It is 46 years old now.

Mine is a '72 and it soldiers on cleaning my dishes perfectly and the fan-forced drying system ( and Institutional Cascade detergent) gives me spotlessly dry dishes every time!



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 3014 posts, RR: 8
Reply 27, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 7522 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Thread starter):
Whats you're rant?

You get what you pay for at the end of the day.

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 1):
I was amused when I saw the top-loading washing machines when I first visited the US.

We have them here in Australia too. They are what the majority of people have in their homes.

I made the change over to a front loader 20+ years ago, and am now on my second machine. Its an Asko, made in Sweden, cost approx AUS$1,800 dollars.

Many people hesitate at the cost, and decide to buy cheaper top loading models, but its false economy, as within years they are back having to buy another one.

I would never go back to a top loader after owning a front. They are so much more efficient to use, from water consumption to being gentler on the clothes, and they wash much better generally.



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineFr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5651 posts, RR: 15
Reply 28, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 7517 times:

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 1):
So are you saying that any end-user should be able to replace a belt on a US vintage top-loading washing machine, or dryer? That's pretty much unheard of over here.

I've changed the transmission coupler on a 12 year old washing machine...the thing lasted another 5 years until the tub finally rusted out. I've changed a circuit board on an oven and replaced some packings and a door gasket on a dishwasher. I've replaced the ice-maker on an old beer fridge and just recently repaired the door latch on a microwave. Never had to open up a dryer though.

The internet has just made it easier. Service manuals, pictures, exploded views, videos, repair forums...if it's broke, chances are it broke for someone before and there is information out there. Appliance repair is no longer the exclusive province of the appliance repairman.

I will add to the front-load rant. My gosh, the thing was junk. It made noise, the seal kept getting slimy and if you didn't leave the door open for a couple of hours after the last load, you would get a lovely aroma the next time you opened the door. I've had to replace the door gasket...that sucked. I finally gave up when the door latch started to fail...locked. That machine lasted 6 years. I'm sure I could have kept it going, but decided it wasn't worth the hassle anymore.

[Edited 2013-09-08 16:39:34]


When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6925 posts, RR: 12
Reply 29, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7488 times:

Here front loaders are common too, although top loaders have a place in condos where space is limited, stacked between other things. I must say I have never heard of products destined to wash the washing machine.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 23):
The decrease of water consumption lead to various problems, e.g. that dirt in the sewage lines doesnt get flushed downstreams to the sewage processing plants anymore and cloggs up the pipes, causing expensive maintenance, which drives sewage costs up. Or potable water pipes which will have to be flushed by simply opening fire hydrants to let the water run out (flushing the sewage system at the same time), to prevent the water from becoming stagnant and contaminated with bacteria in the water pipes.

Such problems are expected when you change usage patterns (like with the low flow urinals in a building in the US that caused urine to destroy copper pipes), but the cost of water is not really related to the availability of it, but with the cost of cleaning it up. If you use lots of water, cleaning it up is more expensive, you need larger facilities, etc.

My parents have a vacation home in Brittany and there water is very expensive because it has to be treated BEFORE you get it to the tap, thanks to mass production of pork in the region.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 30, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7492 times:

As a mechanic for me throwing something repairable away is like surrendering. The problem though is that I have my barn full of old machines, where I eventually hope to find the time to repair them. In fact I can make most metal and plastic parts myself, but I still hope that I can find a good secondhand lathe and milling machine.
I´m always tinkering with something or building something, usually from metal. I have a forge (selfbuilt) and welding equipemt reaching from oxygen-acetylen to TIG. I also have a small electrics / electronics shop at home.

Btw., there is trend now to repair defective equipment intead of throwing it away.

Jan


User currently offlineFr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5651 posts, RR: 15
Reply 31, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7469 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 29):
I must say I have never heard of products destined to wash the washing machine.

My opinion: the reason there is an increase in the 'need' for these types of products is the new, low water usage technology being used in modern washers (clothes and dish). I suspect that the reduced amount of water results in more residue remaining in the machine, contributing to lower efficiency and odor.

This product seems to be the front runner. I recieved a sample of this product when I bought my new washer a couple of months ago. It was the first thing I ran through the machine in order to ensure that the manufacturing oils and swarf were gone. I haven't found the need to run another through there...though I have noticed, if I leave the lid down on the machine, it does emit a slight odor, that didn't exist in the top loader I got rid of 6 years ago.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5939 posts, RR: 5
Reply 32, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7442 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 27):
We have them here in Australia too. They are what the majority of people have in their homes.

I made the change over to a front loader 20+ years ago

  

Living in the UK for 16 years is probably part of it, but I wouldn't go back to a top-loader.

One that hasn't been mentioned yet: COMPUTERS. When I was at school in the early 2000s we had 20 year old Archimedes computers, which were going strong after decades of daily use. My last Toshiba laptop lasted less than 3 years...

Part of it, though, is cost. Many people these days would rather spend $500 every 3 years than $1500 and have it go for more than a decade. The manufacturers are definitely to blame for "built in obsolescence" but there is also an element of caveat emptor



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Reply 33, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7447 times:

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 28):
My gosh, the thing was junk
Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 28):
That machine lasted 6 years.

Yes they are junk and you were lucky to get six years out of it.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 29):
I must say I have never heard of products destined to wash the washing machine.

The REAL reason they sell a detergent to clean the washing machine is that there has been a further "dumbing-down" of Americans. The Government working with the detergent manufacturers reccomends you wash with cold water whenever possible. The detergent manufacturers also market special "Cold Water" Detergents.

To save tons of money the ads go, use cold wash and cold water detergent and you will save hundreds of dollars a year in laundry costs.

That is the WORST possible advice they could give you and they don't care.

ALWAYS wash fabrics in as hot a water as they can stand. Use chlorine bleach such as Clorox on all whites. This is the best way to eliminate the dreaded black jelly and all the associated odors. The bonus is that your clothes will be MUCH cleaner. Use a cold rinse if you like, but only in the summer. You should use a warm rinse in the winter when the water coming from the cold water pipe is too cold to do a good job of rinsing---especially towels, jeans and heavy fabrics. I have a friend in appliance repair that refers to the cold wash/cold rinse setting as the "trailer" setting. The inference is that only trashy people would ever use that setting.

The European machines automatically heat their own water and many people choose to use boiling hot water on their whites rather than chlorine bleach. American machines are at the mercy of whatever temperature the water heater is set at. Personally I have a machine dedicated to just my white underwear and heavy towels. I have it set-up to use only hot water for both wash and rinse. Those clothes are always spotless and the towels fluffy and clean. Not one of my machines EVER stinks.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlinesolarflyer22 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Nov 2009, 1125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7437 times:

I'm going to have jump in on the side that newer is better. I like to purchase products made in the USA wherever possible though its true that Miele and LG are great brands. In general the quality trend is definitely downward.

I like the new stainless steel styles. I like a contemporary look and feel with LED lights and digital readouts and programmable clothes washers. None of those things are available from 1960. lol. Though I acknowledge the build quality in the past is very high. I just accept that I replace things with the advent of new technologies (much like a PC) so I never get anything top of the line. I am sure the next gen will have internet connectivity and remote start options.


User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1626 posts, RR: 3
Reply 35, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7423 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 33):
To save tons of money the ads go, use cold wash and cold water detergent and you will save hundreds of dollars a year in laundry costs.

That is the WORST possible advice they could give you and they don't care.

So basically, you want to say "GET OFF MY LAWN". To hell with trying to do the right thing environmentally. Quite frankly, I prefer the front loaders. They make things so much easier, IMO.

-DiamondFlyer


User currently offlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1999 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7405 times:

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 2):
I own a ten year old house, still has the original appliances. GE fridge, dishwasher, and stove. Whirlpool washer/dryer.

I'd start planning a replacement budget. From what I understand, these things are now designed with a 10 year lifespan under "normal" use. Of course, that may not be accurate, but it's what I've heard.

My house got just a bit over 10 years and my high end Whirlpool refrigerator suffered a major failure not worth fixing. I have also replaced my garbage disposal and repaired my dishwasher, washer and dryer.

I expect the water heater is next.


User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9290 posts, RR: 12
Reply 37, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7406 times:

We are on our fourth cloths washer in 46 years. We just replaced the third. Our last one lasted 7 years, and literally exploded during the high spin cycle. Front loader, Sears best. I will be amazed if this new one lasts 5 years, a weird one, no agitator. Sears again. In 46 years here, we have had 2 dryers, both lasting over 20 years each. Four dishwashers so far.


It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlinekl838 From Netherlands Antilles, joined Oct 2010, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7380 times:

The average person doesn't bother with replacing or fixing any of their appliances, my dad's business is to sell and provide parts and service for Electrolux-Frigidaire. I am not sure why no one has really mentioned Frigidaire, they are very reasonably priced and I think provide quite quality products. Sure they are no Maytag or whatever but most the time it works, these new features on LG won't ever last and are just for the initial wow factor.

Because of my dad those are all the appliances we use at home, and I can tell you we only have had 2 stoves and 2 fridges in my entire lifetime so about 21 years and are still going. Sure there are slight hiccups here and there, but like my dad always says, with Frigidaire once you changed the trouble part it would continue without any problems. I am sure that is the same for others as well.


User currently offlinedaviation From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 39, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7371 times:

I don't agree with this premise at all. I've had American-made appliances of all kinds - oven, range, front-loading washer, refrigerator - and they have all lasted at least 10 - 15 years with no problems of any kind.

My front-load washer gets the clothes absolutely clean with a minimum of water, and there has never been any odor or sludge. My dishwasher quietly washes the most dreadfully soiled dishes (I refuse to rinse them; that's why I have a dishwasher!). The side-by-side refrigerator still makes lovely ice and cold water on the door!

I'm not sure I understand the problem. I think the appliances I bought in the last 5 - 10 - 15 years are much better than their predecessors.


User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1501 posts, RR: 4
Reply 40, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7343 times:

I also agree that newer is better; you just have to not buy the absolute cheapest rubbish available. The newer appliances just do a better job, period- especially dishwashers.

I can't be bothered to do the research but I'd wager back in the 50s the cheapest appliances were significantly more expensive as a percentage of monthly income than they are now. But that doesn't mean you can't get a quality product; you just have to pay a bit more. And of course do your research.



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlinetype-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 41, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7321 times:

Quoting daviation (Reply 39):
My dishwasher quietly washes the most dreadfully soiled dishes (I refuse to rinse them; that's why I have a dishwasher!)

That's what you are supposed to do. Just get rid of the large chunks of food and put the dishes, unrinsed in the dishwasher. Why? Because today's dishwasher detergents have enzymes built into them. These are designed to dissolve any left over food waste in the wash cycle. If you put your dishes in the dishwasher pre-rinsed then the enzymes don't have anything to dissolve and eventually will start dissolving the finish on your plates. So no pre-rinsing, just put them in as they come off the table.


User currently offlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1999 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7316 times:

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 40):
I can't be bothered to do the research
Quoting zckls04 (Reply 40):
And of course do your research.

I'm not sure what to add.


User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4779 posts, RR: 19
Reply 43, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7295 times:

Superfly that is the epitome of cool !


The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently onlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3720 posts, RR: 3
Reply 44, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7249 times:

I was ecstatic to buy an early front loading Maytag Neptune about 15 years ago. Running off a small solar power system and well water pumped by solar, I was looking for the best electrical efficiency and least water use. I got it for $600 at the time. A matching gas dryer was $300. I have had zero problems with the washer, although it did not get heavy use until kids came along 6 years ago. I have noticed some slime in the door seal but no mold like some had. No problems whatsoever. We rarely use the dryer, sunshine works best there.

I have no problems with 5+ year old refrigerators. GE or the Whirlpool brands, in fact I bought 3 of them, 5-8 years old, just last month for rental units. I think all were made or assembled in the US. They replaced 6 year old Haiers, a cheap Chinese model sold in Fry's Electronics. Supposedly surprisingly efficient, they were pretty much junk.


User currently offlineMIAspotter From Spain, joined Nov 2001, 2852 posts, RR: 25
Reply 45, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7201 times:

I remember back in 1986 my mom bought a Panasonic VHS, that thing was rock solid and lasted until 2002, I watched endless movies, my mom recorded her soap operas, concerts, etc. I took it to my friend´s houses (obviously to watch porn  ) and for maintenance all it wanted was a tape head cleaner run every so often.

It even survived a lightning strike in our building!

She also had an Oyster blender, she bought it in 1974 and even in 1995 it looked spanking new, she would clean it thoroughly and when it break down she would take it to a repair shop to get it fixed, the only thing was that if you break the glass vase you would be screwed since they didn´t make them anymore, you could only find the cheaper plastic version. (it never happenned anyways)

It looked kind of like this:
http://bimg1.mlstatic.com/licuadora-oster-cromada-4655-3-vel-vaso-de-vidriolibro_MCO-F-4535231641_062013.jpg

MIAspotter.

[Edited 2013-09-09 02:36:50]


I think, therefore I don´t fly Ryanair.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 46, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7202 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 29):
Such problems are expected when you change usage patterns (like with the low flow urinals in a building in the US that caused urine to destroy copper pipes), but the cost of water is not really related to the availability of it, but with the cost of cleaning it up. If you use lots of water, cleaning it up is more expensive, you need larger facilities, etc.

Actually in Germany, and especially in the former GDR, water vand sewage treatment facilities are often overdimensioned due to an expected development of the population and shadowy practices while handing out the orders after the re-unification. So a smaller amount of users has to pay for facilities which are designed for a much bigger population and water consumption.

Jan


User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Reply 47, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7169 times:

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 35):
To hell with trying to do the right thing

Not sure what you mean by that but I prefer to remain on-topic with this.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 37):
a weird one, no agitator.

Yes, unfortunately it is a POS. IF you still have time return them! Then go on Speed Queen's website add your zipcode and it will tell you which store near you have their laundry equipment. It is the best laundry equipment you can buy in the US today hands-down and has the warranty to back that up.

Quoting daviation (Reply 39):
I think the appliances I bought in the last 5 - 10 - 15 years are much better than their predecessors. OK, Mazel! You will need it! BTW is that washing machine washing heavy grease and lots of ground in dirt because you are a mechanic, or you play football, baseball on the weekends, or run a dairy farm? Or is it washing "office dust"? Just curious.

Quoting type-rated (Reply 41):
If you put your dishes in the dishwasher pre-rinsed then the enzymes don't have anything to dissolve and eventually will start dissolving the finish on your plates. So no pre-rinsing, just put them in as they come off the table.

Yes. It really is a problem for pre-rinsers because it will etch glasses and dishes if there is nothing there to go after.
The old phosphated detergents were MUCH better and safer. Remember when glasses and flatware came out sparkling clean? Can't say that now especially if you have hard-water.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 44):
an early front loading Maytag Neptune about 15 years ago

Yes. The first two years they really did put out a quality Neptune pair. They did do a free modification to the door boot on the washer to eliminate the black jelly build-up problem. I have friends down in Mobile, AL with a first year set and they have NEVER needed a repair!



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineoffloaded From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 905 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7152 times:

Probably a rather unusual purchase for a house in rural Gloucestershire, England back then, but in the 50s, my aunt and uncle bought an American GE cooker. I seem to remember my uncle needed to replace one of the rings in the 80s, but it still works perfectly to this very day.

My oldest appliance is my AEG washing machine which is around 12 years old. Although I am absolutely on the side of repairing rather than replacing, I can't ignore just now much more energy efficient new appliances are. My in-laws recent replaced their central heating boiler (from the 70s) and they have more than halfed their gas bill. The fact is that our energy bills (here in Portugal anyway) are probably 3x what you guys in the US are paying.



To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12938 posts, RR: 25
Reply 49, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7141 times:

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 4):

The owner doing the work. People here usually call some company to do it. Nobody would dare to open those things themselves.

That's surprising. Aren't you Swiss the ones with rifles in the closets ready to go off to war at a moment's notice? Seems you'd be better at dealing with a washing machine fault.

As for me, I bought simple/basic Maytag washer and dryer in 2001 and both are going strong. If I replace them, it'll be because I moved in 2010 and now they are on the main floor as opposed to the basement in my old place, and they are rather loud. OTOH, the odds of me spending $$$ to replace them just because of the noise are not high.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently onlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8764 posts, RR: 3
Reply 50, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7076 times:

In case nobody said so, I want to add vacuums. We had a great GE vacuum from the 1960s. Its parts must have been all metal. It NEVER broke. It was quiet. The cord wore out, that's it. Literally 10 times the durability of today's vacuums. 50+ years no problem.

I also have a 14" electric fan made in Milwaukee IIRC. It is all metal, pulls a constant 85W, and would kick the ass of a Vornado or some other plastic fan. Not even worth talking about until you see what junk is sold these days.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 30):
As a mechanic for me throwing something repairable away is like surrendering.

Well said sir. Maintenance at its best means, _Maintenance_... not decay. Good machines can be maintained longer than any human being can live.


User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1626 posts, RR: 3
Reply 51, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7063 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 47):
Not sure what you mean by that but I prefer to remain on-topic with this.

I'm saying the that you're complaining about new appliances and how they don't seem to wash, compared to the old ones, in either time or "quality". Well, the environmental regulations have changed on appliances and made them much more environmentally friendly, and I see your whining about it as not wanting the more friendly appliances.

-DiamondFlyer


User currently offlineFr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5651 posts, RR: 15
Reply 52, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7025 times:

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 51):
Well, the environmental regulations have changed on appliances and made them much more environmentally friendly, and I see your whining about it as not wanting the more friendly appliances.

Frequently at the expense of quality and/or efficiency. Which means the appliance may need to be replaced/repaired more often which, in turn means that more resources are expended.

Very few things come without price.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlinebhill From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1023 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7022 times:

Ha ha ..timely post..I just performed a "tub bearing and tub seal" replacement in a ...ahem..."Maytag Atlantis" washer...it ain't the Maytags I remember. $75.00 in parts...they DO have a 10 year warranty on the transmission. The appliance shop quoted me more than the cost of a washer to do the work...!!! And a $12 belt while I had it apart....As for the crud that builds up, I suspect it is because we do not use the phosphates we or our folks used to in our detergents, much less hot water.....toss in a cup of baking soda every other wash...fix ya right up.


Carpe Pices
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9290 posts, RR: 12
Reply 54, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6941 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 47):
Then go on Speed Queen's website add your zipcode and it will tell you which store near you have their laundry equipment. It is the best laundry equipment you can buy in the US today hands-down and has the warranty to back that up.

Thanks, I never gave them a thought.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1501 posts, RR: 4
Reply 55, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6934 times:

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 42):
I'm not sure what to add.

Context, perhaps ?

I can't be bothered to research a fairly insignificant fact for the dubious benefit of some complete strangers, but I can be bothered to do some research into what I am buying when I am spending 10,000 dollars on new appliances.  



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlinesccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5615 posts, RR: 28
Reply 56, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6887 times:

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 54):
Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 47):
Then go on Speed Queen's website add your zipcode and it will tell you which store near you have their laundry equipment. It is the best laundry equipment you can buy in the US today hands-down and has the warranty to back that up.

Thanks, I never gave them a thought.

I am tickled to have learned this, as well; wish I had known before we bought our last set.

I used to work on Speed Queen units when I worked for a chain of washaterias ("laundromats," to you Yankees). Speed Queen washers are stout, strong, durable, better than anything ever to come out of any foreign country.

And, I bet the plant uses union labor, too...



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1352 posts, RR: 1
Reply 57, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6835 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Thread starter):
Whats your experience?

All the large appliances in my family's kitchen are Fisher and Paykel. F&P is a reasonably good brand. Some of their products, such as the DishDraw, are incredibly innovate and all of their products are nice to use. Reliability is very good; until being replaced a month or two ago due to the kitchen being renovated (they were subsequently installed in one of the rental houses), the large appliances in my house have all lasted more than a decade. When they do have issues, F&P sends around a service guy who gets them going promptly.

After buying an Asko rangehood last month, we couldn't find either the screws nor instructions to install it. Once me, my parents and cousin had spent several hours installing it, the screws and instructions were found in the least logical place possible: wedged between the motor and the outer casing. Unfortunately this rangehood has an annoying rattle and is 4db louder than the brochure said it would be.

We still have a 30 year old F&P freezer in the laundry used to store fish or excess meat after a home kill. It has had at least two prior owners (uncle, grandparends). Still works perfectly, though it eats through plenty of electricity.

Only other interesting experience was a washing machine that caught fire ~15 years ago.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Thread starter):
Whats you're rant?

Stainless Steel appliances. They ALWAYS shows up finger prints. While Stainless Steel looks ok when new, it looks terrible the moment it gets even slightly dirty (just like the old liveries of American Airlines and Aeromexico, incidentally). Being somewhat of a perfectionist, I instinctively spend a lot of time polishing them each evening in an attempt to make them look right - but it never seems enough.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 50):

In case nobody said so, I want to add vacuums.

I find it frustrating that that very few (if any) new vacuum cleaners come with a reverse function. Ones that do are very handy for blowing up air mattresses, inflatable boats and pool toys.



First to fly on the Boeing 787-9 with Air New Zealand and ZK-NZE; NZ103, AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8508 posts, RR: 12
Reply 58, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6803 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Thread starter):
Speed Queen ( a VERY old American manufacturer of Washers and Dryers) is the only decent brand left being sold here nowadays. They still use steel internal parts, they are Made In America, and they have the best "from the factory" warranty in the business. They control their quality so tightly you have to get them through small independent appliance stores.

My mom has a Speed Queen and it's pretty nice. Doesn't hold a huge load but it washes fast and well and it's built like a tank.


User currently onlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5533 posts, RR: 13
Reply 59, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6690 times:

One of the best non-aviation threads so far this year! That's coming from the dude who never gets tired of would you hit it threads!

Time for a Zippyjet spin.

Dishwashers:
The Kitchen Aid Hurricane In a Box dishwashers excel because of their unique patented four way hydro-sweep four armed wash arm. Sort of like a large propeller. Though Whirlpool took over the Kitchen Aid name, many of their dishwashers retain the Hobart four way hydro sweep wash arm. Though they will never match the strength or superlative quality of Hobart's machines these are still a cut above the rank and file Whirlpool stuff. But, sadly due to the go green movement Kitchen Aid/Whirlpool is gradually phasing out the venerable hydro sweep dishwashers and replacing them with a conventional s shaped wash arm. If you must buy a new dishwasher I'd still go with the Kitchenaid but, make sure it is one of the hydrosweep models!

For dishwasher detergent Cascade recently came out with their Action Tab "Platinum" formulation and by golly these little pods kick ass and clean like the old school phosphate stuff! P & G, hit a home run with the newest Cascade formulation.
[img]http://www.automaticwasher.info/TD/AWJPEG/VINTAGE/2012/jend 9-1-2012-13-05-33.jpg[/img]
Please let me introduce to you what makes that Hurricane in a box!
[img]http://www.automaticwasher.info/TD/AWJPEG/MODERN/2012/zippyjet 12-25-2012-01-14-3.jpg[/img]
The classic wash arm in a Whirlpool produced machine.

Now, Whirlpool is gradually phasing out the classic wash arm for this:
[img]http://www.automaticwasher.info/TD/AWJPEG/MODERN/2012/zippyjet 12-25-2012-01-22-16.jpg[/img]

And here is a thread by your's truly. I don't post nor visit Automatic Washer like I do A-Net but it is a cool site nonetheless. Here is my thread regarding Kitchen Aid dishwashers.

TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?44144_4" target="_blank">http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?44144_4

Actually there is now a market for the old venerable Kitchenaid by Hobart Dishwashers. Many are now restoring them and those hurricane's in a box will outlive us.

Now with Maytag. That old Maytag repairman Jesse White must be off balance in his grave. The beginning of the end for Maytag came in the mid to late 80's when they bought the god awful Norge company. I never liked Norge appliances. They were always fugly and were quirky. You either loved them or hated them. All of a sudden Maytag washers started looking like those ugly cheaper Norges and the writing was on the wall. And then Whirlpool bought them. However, the Maytag by Whirlpool washers are probably better than those Norge monstrosities.

Air Conditioners: My favorite stalwarts from the good old days of window a/c units were Fedders in the 50's and 60's with their Raymond Lowey designed "Weather Wheel" units. Many of them still cool like new even in torrid Baltimore! For slightly newer a/c units, the Friedrich A/C units from the 60's through 90's were legendary.

These Fedders units looked like the Good N Plenty candy box.
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6006/6006627872_d60f2322d1_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8141/7524505292_9dc0351dab_h.jpg
They looked like the Good N Plenty boxes and the Lucky Strike Cigarette packages.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5275/7422885452_ea3cbd6430_b.jpg

These last two a/c units are both Friedrich's the former is from the 70's and the latter is from 1955. Many of them are still cooling today!
Maybe a little later I'll post my favorite classic TV sets and other appliances.

[Edited 2013-09-11 02:28:28]


I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Reply 60, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6653 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 49):
I bought simple/basic Maytag washer and dryer in 2001
Quoting Revelation (Reply 49):
rather loud.

I wonder if they are the (Magic Chef produced) "Performa" series----actually a re-badged Magic Chef/Norge----because the Original "Dependable" Maytag series were VERY quiet. If you have an early set of Maytag badged "Performa's" that are still working there must be an appliance museum somewhere who would like to talk to you!

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 51):
much more environmentally friendly
Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 52):
Which means the appliance may need to be replaced/repaired more often which, in turn means that more resources are expended.
Very few things come without price.

Sounds like DiamondFlyer wants to start a thread on the "Environment".

Quoting bhill (Reply 53):
"Maytag Atlantis" washer...it ain't the Maytags I remember. $75.00 in parts...they DO have a 10 year warrant

The "Atlantis" machines could vary. Some of them tried new technology and the washer used two discs instead of a traditional agitator----with so-so results. They were real clothes-tanglers. Others were re-badged Magic Chef/Norges.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 56):
I bet the plant uses union labor, too...

I don't know if they do, I think they are still up in Ripon, Wisconsin.

Quoting zkojq (Reply 57):
Fisher and Paykel

They have not had a very good time since they were introduced here in the the late 1990's. They did not have an established service network and were not prepared for the American way of using appliances--------which is to push them to their limits on a daily basis.
By the early 2000's I could go to visit any number of F&P factory authorized repair shops and observe the growing "mountains" of dead clothes washers and Dish-drawers in the back-yard!

Quoting zkojq (Reply 57):
They ALWAYS shows up finger prints.

Black is even worse. Every speck of dust, grease, etc. I have a friend in Richmond with Black porcelain bathroom fixtures. Can you imagine keeping the sink clean?!

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 58):
Doesn't hold a huge load

Must be an older model as the newer ones hold a HUGE load! BTW SQ also has about 65 years experience manufacturing Front-Load Washers. As they go, theirs are VERY good machines.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 59):
is gradually phasing out the venerable hydro sweep

Because they have reduced the amount of water to the point where they can no longer drive the arm!------ DUH!
Government intervention at it's best. Better get used to washing your dishes with dirt, there's not enough water to clean them. (That's why the new dishwashers take two hours or so just to do a load.) Yeah, it uses somewhat less water and a WHOLE lot more electricity since it runs for hours. Which of those do YOU pay more for? My water bill is CHEAP!  
Quoting zippyjet (Reply 59):
They were always fugly and were quirky. You either loved them or hated them. All of a sudden Maytag washers started looking like those ugly cheaper Norges

That's because Maytag started to use the old Magic Chef (Tragic Chef) assembly lines to manufacture re-badged Magic Chef/Norge/Amana POS. It didn't take long for Maytag to trash their reputation selling these POS. All for the greed of their dumb-ass executive board.  



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently onlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5533 posts, RR: 13
Reply 61, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6607 times:

Because they have reduced the amount of water to the point where they can no longer drive the arm!------ DUH!
Government intervention at it's best. Better get used to washing your dishes with dirt, there's not enough water to clean them. (That's why the new dishwashers take two hours or so just to do a load.) Yeah, it uses somewhat less water and a WHOLE lot more electricity since it runs for hours. Which of those do YOU pay more for? My water bill is CHEAP!
Quoting zippyjet (Reply 59):
They were always fugly and were quirky. You either loved them or hated them. All of a sudden Maytag washers started looking like those ugly cheaper Norges

This is why people are holding onto and restoring those classic Hobart Kitchen Aid dishwashers. If I owned my own home, I'd be the first on the block to get a restored one. If you did not use the heated dry cycle on an old Kitchen Aid, the cycle took 30 minutes!



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Reply 62, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6587 times:

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 61):
This is why people are holding onto and restoring those classic Hobart Kitchen Aid dishwashers. If I owned my own home, I'd be the first on the block to get a restored one. If you did not use the heated dry cycle on an old Kitchen Aid, the cycle took 30 minutes!

I have some friends in the appliance repair business in the D.C. area. One of them has a Hobart Commercial unit that looks just like a regular older KAID (in SS) except it will do a whole load in THREE-MINUTES! You must, of course, then open the door, pull the racks out and let it air-dry.

You sure can keep-up with the party if you have one of those!   



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently onlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5533 posts, RR: 13
Reply 63, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6565 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 62):

True that but those machines use boiling water and super harsh commercial chemical detergents. I don't even think commercial phosphate Cascade is used. I could be wrong. And of course the water is so hot, drying is fast once you open that door.



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlinetype-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 64, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6548 times:

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 63):
And of course the water is so hot, drying is fast once you open that door.

It's called flash drying.

And let's not even get started on the Amanatag machines (model SAV series). Those were the worst of all for reliability. But even though they were sold in the 2001-2003 time frame I don't think any of them are left. They probably have all been junked by now.

The last of the Maytag "Jet Clean" dishwashers were great. But they stopped making them around 2008 and now they are just rebadged Whirlpool machines.

Zip, your comparison to the Good & Plenty boxes is so true. I never thought of it in that way. BTW, Good & Plenty is not available nationwide. I've only seen it in the east and upper midwest. And I miss it!


User currently onlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5533 posts, RR: 13
Reply 65, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6531 times:

Quoting type-rated (Reply 64):

Raymond Lowey the famous industrial designer designed the Good And Plenty boxes along with the Lucky Strike Cigarrette packages.
http://www.die-neue-sammlung.de/press/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/09_8077-1985.jpg

By the way up till recently Fedders still made a version of their classic air conditioner in 7000 to 12000 BTU A/C units.

http://www.automaticwasher.org/TD/JPEG/VINTAGE/2013/zippyjet++5-29-2013-02-39-4.jpg

However, not sure how they'll hold up but window air conditioners are much lighter in weight than what we grew up with. I've even seen 10,000 BTU units that are as light weight as a 5000 BTU capacity unit.



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlinetype-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 66, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6513 times:

I just wasn't aware that Lowey designed the Good N' Plenty and Fedders a/c units. He also designed the twin globes used in TWA's logo, he designed the shield for UA, he also designed the 1953 Studebaker Starlight Coupe, one of my favorite cars.


Big version: Width: 800 Height: 424 File size: 55kb


[Edited 2013-09-11 17:09:08]

User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Reply 67, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6499 times:

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 63):
use boiling water and super harsh commercial chemical detergents.

Oh, it sure does bump up the water temps. I live in a hard-water area so I like the commercial detergents. I still use good old regular Cascade. The newer formulaes are worthless.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 59):
"Weather Wheel"

They sold a Gah-Zillion of 'em in Florida back in the day. Great units. Miami had lots of heat/cool units.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 59):
Friedrich's

Oh, those were great. Turn a house into an igloo. They would also smoke the power-meter.

Quoting type-rated (Reply 64):
I don't think any of them are left. They probably have all been junked by now.

The spin-bearings would seize in about 12-16 mos. of regular use. Sometimes sooner! POS!



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9290 posts, RR: 12
Reply 68, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6487 times:

Quoting sccutler (Reply 56):
I am tickled to have learned this, as well; wish I had known before we bought our last set.

I used to work on Speed Queen units when I worked for a chain of washaterias ("laundromats," to you Yankees). Speed Queen washers are stout, strong, durable, better than anything ever to come out of any foreign country.

And, I bet the plant uses union labor, too...

They are based in Ripon Wisconsin, as the Alliance Laundry Systems, formerly owned by Bain Capital. Ripon Wisconsin, the Birthplace of the Republican Party it bills itself. I am afraid that they are not unionized, but they are made in the US. When all else fails, (not made by union help) I go to anything made in the US. We have to pick and choose in life. I choose American jobs every time. I am glad to see I am not alone, trying to protect American jobs.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9290 posts, RR: 12
Reply 69, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6468 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 67):
Quoting zippyjet (Reply 59):Friedrich's
Oh, those were great. Turn a house into an igloo. They would also smoke the power-meter.

Mine still does after 23 years, a great unit. I have to run it around eighty degrees to keep it from freezing my fanny. It is a split unit.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8508 posts, RR: 12
Reply 70, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6448 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 60):

Must be an older model as the newer ones hold a HUGE load! BTW SQ also has about 65 years experience manufacturing Front-Load Washers. As they go, theirs are VERY good machines.

I don't know what model she has but it's not as commodious as her previous Whirlpool $1000 wonder washer (top loader since a front loader won't fit in her laundry room). That piece of crap almost immediately had a recall for a defective circuit board and never worked as advertised.


User currently offlinetype-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 71, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6408 times:

Friedrich's were the most common air conditioner I saw all through the south going back to the 60's & 70's. Not only were they known for excellent cooling, but also for excellent dehumidification too.

User currently onlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5533 posts, RR: 13
Reply 72, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6382 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 67):

They were big in Maryland, (part of the South). The Weather Wheel Fedders were abundant from the 1950's through mid to late 1960's. Friedrich's started to make inroads in the very late 60's and 70's. The mid 70's through late 80's saw a lot of crappy loss leader A/C's by Montgomery Lemon Wards, Emerson Quiet Cool and the GE/Hotpoint "Carry Cools" and the slightly upmarket "Fashionaire" units these were all plastic and took the hippo out of small to medium sized A/C units. But, if you wanted quality you had to pony up and go for a Friedrich. The Fedders Weather Wheel A/C units were big with the built through the wall under the window set. As a matter of fact my old apartment complex still had some of them still cooling as late as the early 90's! In NYC they actually call apartments Fedders Box's . There would be pre-cut sleeves for the a/c unit proclaming it was a Fedders. Sadly during the late 60's Fedders abandoned the Weather wheel for a cheaper version using a rectangular vent. Then in the early 70's Fedders jumped on the crapper train with generic A/C units maybe a tad better than the God Awful Montgomery Lemon Wards, Emerson brown Quiet Cool dreck and the el cheapo GE carry cool units.

And getting back to Hobart Kitchen Aid dishwashers, they featured a 1/2 horsepower motor whereas the rank and file dishwashers just used 1/4 horsepower motors. No wonder why those hurricanes in a box still outlast and outperform what's made today!

Back to A/C units the only thing I like better about today's units besides lighter in weight are the better thermostatic controls for accuracy. Now, unless you buy a bare bones 4000 BTU model you get a thermostat that actually is calibrated in temperature instead of the old time warmer-normal-cooler or numbers game from one to seven. Easier to set it and forget it. Also though the older units like the Fedders Weather Wheel and Friedrich units were built like tanks they had a noticeable temperature swing whereas even the Heirs, GE's and LG units are much more accurate for comfort. Today with Friedrich there are two lines. The lower priced ones are the made overseas whereas the higher priced units are mod looking and are made stateside (Friedrich's own design).



A timeless design and hot looking. A retro spin off would make a great revival of the Ford Thunderbird.
Did Raymond Loewy also design the iconic Pan Am "Meatball" logo?

[img]
http://money-hub.com/content/bigpics...r%20conditioner%20manual.jpg[/img] Though small sized check out the Fedders installation cover picture featuring a circle.



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Reply 73, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6365 times:

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 70):
defective circuit board a

The WORST NIGHTMARE of new appliances. They are made as cheaply as possible in quantities so vast they cannot control the quality-----even if they wanted to----and they don't care!
One of my friends out in the field changed FOUR motherboards on a POS stove before he got one that wasn't defective.

Quoting type-rated (Reply 71):
ost common air conditioner I saw all through the south

Well, around Georgia there were a ton of Frigidaire, Kenmore, AirTemp, and GE units out there 'shakin windows. We had a couple of the Freidrich units at the funeral home, however the BIG BEAST hanging over the back hall was a Frigidaire. It would just about blow you down if you got directly in the path of the outflow. Must have had a 16" blower. Even on the hottest Atlanta summer's day it cooled the back hall, three offices, a clergy office, and both prep rooms (if the doors were propped open). The dorm had an old (Chrysler) AirTemp unit that would also freeze you out. Funny how I remember all of those, yet, in those days, in the deep-south, you quickly became friends with air conditioning however you got it! I remember when most of Atlanta was un-airconditioned---business and residences----it was miserable. If you drove a little bit outside of the city NOBODY had it! We used to do funerals in little old un-airconditioned churchs' that lasted for hours back then. We provided "Jesus fans" (or Moses fans) on a stick to try to keep the guests from dying as well. And to think the old-timers used to wear suits and heavy clothes in that weather!------Just like Florida!
Half the damned cars were black! What were they thinking?!

I think a lot of people purchased their "window-shakers" at department or tire stores, and appliance stores, where they could put it on account and pay it off over time. In those days the stores that offered credit were very user-friendly. I remember a lot of people got their first a/c units at the old Sears on Ponce de Leon ( I assume to be Whirlpool built units). Rich's department store sold GE's as did LOTS of appliance stores (Castleberry's sold a ton of them) and JC Penny (re-badged Penncrest). Hudson's Appliances in North Decatur and over in Little Five Points was Sharpe's and they sold Frigidaire by the train car loads. I'm sure Georgia Power and Atlanta Gas Light Companies also sold them. Atlanta Gas Light didn't even care how much you paid on it every month as long as you paid something. They would just put the sale on your monthly gas bill and that was that! They made a LOT of friends around Atlanta in those days. Many a poor family was able to get a washing machine for the first time the same way----a Maytag from Atlanta Gas Light. GREAT PR!

The big old GE units used to crack me up.You would see this huge unit that made a good bit of noise yet, didn't blow very hard at all however, the air from the out-flow poured out and dropped to the floor like liquid-nitrogen on a humid summer's day! It was funny as hell to watch and nobody could say a GE unit didn't put out cold air!

Quoting type-rated (Reply 66):
he also designed the 1953 Studebaker Starlight Coupe, one of my favorite cars.

The most impressive cars on this body IMO were the '58 Packard Hawks. I think they put out about 275 hp or so. Anyway, they were ROCKETS!  Wow!



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2659 posts, RR: 5
Reply 74, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6332 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 21):
And now we have a big Asian firm called LG that is selling their poorly built plastic crap. They don't even have a service network built-up here yet. I see people at the "big box" appliance stores buying LG crap and I cringe just knowing whats in store for them. Good luck! They will need it!



Well, I had a Goldstar (LG's predecessor) combo microwave oven in the old country. Best appliance I ever had and I was really sorry that we had to sell it when moving to Canada.
If the post merger company was able to keep Goldstar's quality, people buying LG products are looking at long years of problem free usage.


User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Reply 75, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6299 times:

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 74):
If the post merger company was able to keep Goldstar's quality, people buying LG products are looking at long years of problem free usage.


They didn't, and they won't. Call an Independent Appliance Repair service and ask them what they think. Time changes everything.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently onlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5533 posts, RR: 13
Reply 76, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6276 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 73):

Imagine living in Miami/Miami Beach in the prehistoric era BA (before air conditioning)! My mom went to Miami Beach Sr. High in the late 40's and it was an open corridor school. Sort of reminded me of Walt Whitman High from the TV show Room 222. My beloved dad told me of his childhood when in the movie theatres: Big electric fans blew on blocks of ice!
Yes, and the creampuff cars of the day had 65 mph. A/C (windows open) and were black and had non breathable vinyl seats, usually black or some other dark color and all that chrome reflected heat. And ceiling fans were a necesitty not an exercise in retro style as they are today or at least when they were revived in the 80's.

DAD-NEWSPAPER-MOTHER-SEWING-KIDS-BOY-GIRL-REC.jpg" width="450" height="357" border="0"/>http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-TBFNvhTaFy8/TiPax8x3dOI/AAAAAAAABK8/LiKp84ZK1GA/s1600/IMG_1711.JPG
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8223/8331568049_7e236e8767_o.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8518/8347723675_25fdccf3cf_b.jpg


I get a kick out of these back in the day A/C units especially the add with "Zephitrol!"



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Reply 77, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6270 times:

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 76):
dad told me of his childhood when in the movie theatres: Big electric fans blew on blocks of ice!

Yes, I heard about that as well. By the time I came along they had those huge waterfall-on-slats units on the roof and froze you when you walked in the door. Burdines had the same kind of system.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 76):
And ceiling fans were a necesitty not an exercise in retro style as they are today or at least when they

My dad's mother was a fresh-air nut. There were those light metallic blue GE table fans everywhere. I don't remember anyone having ceiling fans at home but they must have! I do remember everybody got a/c before the 60's dawned-----except for old Aunt Elenore who lived at the Cadillac on south Beach. Even when we put a window-shaker in for her she wouldn't use it! She was one of the hard-core "old country" relatives of mine who had worked in New York for years and then retired to Florida without ever having had a car. Into her 80's she took the bus everywhere in Miami. Beat all I ever saw.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 76):
the creampuff car

Oh, I remember LOTS of cars in Miami in my early childhood without a/c. Most of them black. Packards and Buicks mostly. A turquoise and white '55 Bel Air. I don't know how my tiny mother's mother ever did it but she used to shlep us kids around in a Black '48 Roadmaster with no power anything! At least it was a Dynaflow. I remember all the places we used to go to shopping downtown and all those curbside parking places. How the hell she had the muscle to parallel park that thing is beyond me! That Grandmother traded that Roadmaster in on another one, a '55 and it had power everything! By the late 50's everyone had a/c in their cars as far as I recall. My favorites were the late 50's early 60's Cadillacs. I had numerous relatives with those and thankfully none of the ones used outside of funeral service were black! I loved the violet/white '60 Fleetwood my Uncle Herman had. What a tank!



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineracko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 78, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 6258 times:

Bought both a Miele washer and drier 12 years ago because my grandfather insisted on Miele, basically describing any other brand as throwing money out of the window. Haven't had a problem since.

User currently onlinenickh From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 223 posts, RR: 0
Reply 79, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 6188 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting ImperialEagle (Thread starter):
Whats your experience? How long did your Mom and Dads appliances last?

My folks had an old Montgomery-Ward* refrigerator that they bought in the mid 1970s that worked flawlessly through many power spikes, outages, etc., and finally in 2006, when they gave it away to the gardner, he says that to this date (2013), it still works! He just had to replace the magnetic door seals.

Way back when (late 1960's from what I recall), while living abroad, my folks also had an old Electrolux refrigerator/icebox-type thing that was made possibly in the 1940's or something -- to give you an idea, it required a natural gas connection and had some sort of burner that ran hot air over the condenser coils -- I was a bit too young to remember the exact configuration or reason for the gas flame... But - the last time that I heard of it, back in the 1990's, the damn thing was still working, stashed at a relative's home!

-Nick
* Montgomery Ward obviously did not make their own appliances, like Sears, they were re-branded -- I think that, that "Monkey-Ward" 'fridge was made by Maytag. I remember helping to move the M-W 'fridge out of the enclosed space where it was installed decades ago and it had at least a 2-inch thick layer of dust/lint all over the condenser, compressor and blower motor/fan. And the poor thing still worked faithfully!



"We all have wings, but some of us don't know why..."
User currently offlinecorocks From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 80, posted (1 year 3 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6108 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
What ever happened to the brand Thermador?

I got a Thermador Stovetop, Oven, Microwave, and Dishwasher about a year ago. Absolutely love them!


User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4779 posts, RR: 19
Reply 81, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6059 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 73):

Well, around Georgia there were a ton of Frigidaire, Kenmore, AirTemp, and GE units out there 'shakin windows. We had a couple of the Freidrich units at the funeral home, however the BIG BEAST hanging over the back hall was a Frigidaire. It would just about blow you down if you got directly in the path of the outflow. Must have had a 16" blower. Even on the hottest Atlanta summer's day it cooled the back hall, three offices, a clergy office, and both prep rooms (if the doors were propped open)

Wow, good times..



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7822 posts, RR: 5
Reply 82, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6020 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 60):
They have not had a very good time since they were introduced here in the the late 1990's. They did not have an established service network and were not prepared for the American way of using appliances--------which is to push them to their limits on a daily basis.

I don't see there being much difference between what a kiwi or aussie does with an F&P appliance than what an American would do with one.

F&P is now owned by Haier.


User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7822 posts, RR: 5
Reply 83, posted (1 year 3 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5962 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 60):
which is to push them to their limits on a daily basis.

Left it too late to revise my above post so here goes.

How much extra abuse do US users give their whiteware? What makes Americans any harder on appliances than anyone else, I have 3 kids they probably make as many dirty clothes as any American kid, probably more since they are very active, play a bunch of sports and get dirty on a daily basis. My wife's Electrolux front loading washer and condenser dryer run 1-3 times every day and have been running without fault for 7 years. As for our other hard working appliance the dishwasher this runs at least twice daily, with all the takeaways and precooked meals Americans eat do they really generate enough dishes to fill a washer on a daily basis? I'm not sure what the longevity of our Siemens kitchen appliances will be, we only rebuilt the kitchen last year, in the past 12 months I estimate the dishwasher has done at least 500 cycles without fault and cleans everything spotlessly.


User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Reply 84, posted (1 year 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5879 times:

Quoting racko (Reply 78):
12 years ago

There you go! You won't get that with a new one!

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 83):
7 years.

There you go. Not 2 years old. There really is a difference.
In the US laundry equipment is horribly abused. People are careless. Don't care or have any real idea how to properly launder their clothes. Out of laziness ditzy housewives will just PACK the machine full of clothes add double the amount of detergent turn the dial until something happens and walk away. Pretty much the same for the dryer. The motors in the F&P products are direct-drive and reversing and were not built to handle the level of stress American's dish out.

Many years ago Sears had Whirlpool build an agitator for their Kenmore machines that had the typical occillating
base with fins and a large cork-screw looking auger on top to literally shove the clothes down to the bottom. That way the public could overload the machines to their hearts content and the clothes would roll-over and still got clean-----even if a tad worn from all the aggressive action.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 83):
the longevity of our Siemens

Good luck with that.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7822 posts, RR: 5
Reply 85, posted (1 year 3 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5846 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 84):
There you go. Not 2 years old. There really is a difference.

7 years as per what you quoted not two.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 84):
Good luck with that.

I'm not worried my mother in law has a 30+ year old Siemens dishwasher that's still going strong.


User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Reply 86, posted (1 year 3 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5832 times:

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 85):
30+ year old Siemens dishwasher

Yeah, well if they made the new ones like they did the old ones there wouldn't be any use for a thread like this!



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7822 posts, RR: 5
Reply 87, posted (1 year 3 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5810 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 86):
Yeah, well if they made the new ones like they did the old ones there wouldn't be any use for a thread like this!

Yeah but people also dump the old ones which are still working properly because they are energy hogs and generally very loud. If they also built them like they used to build them we couldn't afford them.

I'm sure when auto washers first arrived many women though the mangel was the mutts nuts, men were good enough at washing dishes who needs a dishwasher, let alone using a machine to dry clothes when mother nature can do a pretty good job.

If I get 15 years out of an appliance I'm happy, I don't want some noisy 40 year old lump of metal in my laundry or sitting in my kitchen. I think in my age group and those younger this is probably the way most think.


User currently offlineAA757MIA From United States of America, joined May 2008, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 88, posted (1 year 3 months 1 day ago) and read 5472 times:

A week ago, I bought a 3 year old (I remember when she bought them) GE washer/dryer set from a friend.
Both worked just fine the first time, now the dryer does not work, well it does, but, for some reason it starts/stops, unless I hold the start button.

After some research online, it looks like it may be either the motor or the electronic board, I haven't had time to look into it further, but if it is indeed one of them, it's going to be a $200+ repair, almost as much as I paid for the set...


User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Reply 89, posted (1 year 3 months 10 hours ago) and read 5445 times:

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 87):
they are energy hogs and generally very loud.

I strongly disagree. Although, I would say the diswashers were louder because they used a tad more water and really worked. An old "center-dial" Maytag is still one of the quietest washing machines out there and the newest one is about 1979----thousands of 'em still going strong. A stove is a stove is a stove. Refrigeration is using somewhat less electricity with improvements in insulation as well. A clothes dryer is still just a hair-dryer in a box with a revolving drum.
The electronic "mother boards" of the new stuff are ridiculous crap.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 87):
I think in my age group and those younger this is probably the way most think.

I think you are right.

Quoting AA757MIA (Reply 88):
the electronic board,

Throw it out and buy a Speed Queen. They have the best quality and warranty in the business today.
Go on their website and put in your zip code and they will tell you who in your area stocks them.
Poorly manufactured electronic mother boards are killing us! There are thousands of technicians out in the field every day that have to install two or six of them before they get one that works right. Ridiculous. Thanks, China!



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlinecptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 12
Reply 90, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5407 times:

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 65):
Raymond Lowey the famous industrial designer designed the Good And Plenty boxes along with the Lucky Strike Cigarrette packages.
Quoting type-rated (Reply 66):
I just wasn't aware that Lowey designed the Good N' Plenty and Fedders a/c units. He also designed the twin globes used in TWA's logo, he designed the shield for UA, he also designed the 1953 Studebaker Starlight Coupe, one of my favorite cars.

...as well as the Air Force One livery, still unchanged to this date.

But, back to appliances. Over the years we have had good luck with the Maytag brand for washers and dryers but wifey recently sprung for matching LG Steam Washer and True Steam Dryer, so I hope that some of the previous questionable reliability comments don't manifest themselves for us. I don't know the capacities, but these damn things are about 54" tall, really carry a load and really work fantastic (of course, they're new). She loves the giant front-loading feature...I don't do laundry, so I don't care   .When we built the house some 6 years ago we got new LG flat screens (perfect so far) and LG Fridge (perfect so far) and LG freezer chest (perfect so far). The ice maker is Kitchen Aid (perfect) as well as the ovens, although a surge protector didn't protect and one of the oven's mother board got fried in a thunderstorm (insurance took care of that, though). I am hoping never to have to make another appliance purchase...but I guess that's just wishful thinking on my part. kind regards...jack



all best; jack
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8974 posts, RR: 39
Reply 91, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5264 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 60):
Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 52):
Which means the appliance may need to be replaced/repaired more often which, in turn means that more resources are expended.
Very few things come without price.

Sounds like DiamondFlyer wants to start a thread on the "Environment".

Like having to re-wash dishes or clothing because you're using High-Efficiency "environmentally friendly" machines.



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Reply 92, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5239 times:

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 90):
matching LG Steam Washer and True Steam Dryer

Oooh. Good luck with that. Hope you bought all the extended warranty you could get!

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 91):
Like having to re-wash dishes or clothing because you're using High-Efficiency "environmentally friendly" machines.

Yeah. Where's the savings when you have to do everything twice? Maybe the "green" people can scrub them with a little dust and get them clean.   



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlinemirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7444 posts, RR: 62
Reply 93, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5177 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

wow, great thread that hits a nerve with quite a few here that are fed up with our disposable society!

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 16):

If you want appliances that will last forever buy Gaggenau, if you have stupid amounts of money to spend buy AGA, Electrolux Grand Cuisine or Molteni. There are two reasons to dump old working appliances, first is they don't fit in with modern design and the second is they use huge amounts of electricity, significantly more than modern appliances.

We're just moving into our probably forever home. I'll have to look up Gaggenau. What about other brands I haven't really seen mentioned here, such as Viking JennAir and Subzero? Just wondering.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 21):
Well, I wish all of ya'll well in the future because the new stuff sold here in the US is crap for the most part and Americans are dumb enough to just take it without protest.
Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 21):
What the customer is now discovering is that there is no point in buying a more expensive unit because the added price no longer buys a higher level of quality.

Can be said of a lot. Honestly, we bought a Honda and its been nothing buy quality issues. From here on it, I'd rather buy a solid American brand.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 33):
To save tons of money the ads go, use cold wash and cold water detergent and you will save hundreds of dollars a year in laundry costs.

That is the WORST possible advice they could give you and they don't care.

ALWAYS wash fabrics in as hot a water as they can stand. Use chlorine bleach such as Clorox on all whites. This is the best way to eliminate the dreaded black jelly and all the associated odors. The bonus is that your clothes will be MUCH cleaner. Use a cold rinse if you like, but only in the summer. You should use a warm rinse in the winter when the water coming from the cold water pipe is too cold to do a good job of rinsing---especially towels, jeans and heavy fabrics. I have a friend in appliance repair that refers to the cold wash/cold rinse setting as the "trailer" setting. The inference is that only trashy people would ever use that setting.

Just wondering but where do you get this?^^ In other words, how did you arrive to come to that advice?^^^ interesting trailer comment.



Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40066 posts, RR: 74
Reply 94, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5169 times:

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 76):

We had a similar air conditioner when we lived in SoCal. Our original air conditioner that came with the place when it was built in 1962 blew very strong & cold. It finally went out in 1993 at 31 years. The new one didn't blow as cold and took forever to cool off the room. Being more quite really wasn't much of an advantage since I had to run a fan as well to help circulate the air. The utility bill didn't go down because it had to stay on 24/7 to keep the same temperature. The older unit would shut off once the desired temperature was reached.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 68):
They are based in Ripon Wisconsin,

Birthplace of the Republican Party.

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 93):
wow, great thread that hits a nerve with quite a few here that are fed up with our disposable society!

Count me in as one of those fed up!

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 93):
Honestly, we bought a Honda and its been nothing buy quality issues. From here on it, I'd rather buy a solid American brand.

You should have kept your Buick.  



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4789 posts, RR: 3
Reply 95, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5161 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 94):
Quoting mirrodie (Reply 93): Honestly, we bought a Honda and its been nothing buy quality issues. From here on it, I'd rather buy a solid American brand.You should have kept your Buick

Oh, hell to the no.
I have had Honda's and I have had a buick. I drove 2 Hondas to 200,000 miles with minimal normal MTC. I had to replace the Intake Gasket, wheel Bearings, and all 4 Electric Window motors on the Buick. Don't even get me started on the Ford that I had.

=============================

To the point of this thread though, I do think it is too easy to get rid of easily repairable devices, but I think part of the blame lies in people and part lies in the manufacturers. I can't tell you how many Whirlpool Ice Maker's are broken due to a 2 cent plastic timer clip. Then it costs 80 bucks for a new assembly, and 100 bucks for the repair guy for those that have no time to do it themselves. Due to Warranty issues, many people just say to heck with it and buy a new one. I will repair mine if I can. The devices themselves these days have strong efficient motors and designs, but it is the electronics and plastic parts that will always fail first. If you like to troubleshoot, things can be fixed. But with the cheapness of many devices, a lot of people just go get new ones.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineoly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6843 posts, RR: 11
Reply 96, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5149 times:

Rant on.....

My parents have a top loading washing machine of some American make. A while ago they were driven beyond distraction by a problem with it and the "support".

It leaked. One day there was a puddle on the floor.

So, since they had a service agreement, they phoned for the engineer to come and see it, which he did a couple of days later. He had a look and diagnosed a list of parts that needed replacing and that would need to be ordered from the US, taking many days when they couldn't use the washing machine.

In the meantime they asked me to have a look at it. Yes it leaked, and on tracing the leak back it was, in fact, the flexible hose connecting the drum to the pressure switch that had snapped, so when the drum filled it then dripped over the floor when the water reached the level of the hole. This flexible hose was obviously (after the fact) just long enough to reach the pressure switch, but with the shaking around of the drum it eventually gave up.

Problem solved in a couple of minutes with a new length of tubing.

Cue many pissed off emails and phone calls about incompetent service engineers, etc, that were immediately rebuffed with the standard, "our engineers are very well trained" blah blah blah.



Rant off



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40066 posts, RR: 74
Reply 97, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5156 times:

Speaking of people throwing away stuff over minor things. I remember several years ago, my Dell Dimension needed some parts. There were some old files I had on 3&1/2 floppy disk and I wanted to transfer to my hard-drive.
Well thanks to a lot of people in San Francisco that likes to throw out old computers & stuff on the sidewalk, I found the same Dell computer on the sidewalk just a few houses down and it had a 3&1/2 floppy disk drive. I took it in to my place and added the 3&1/2 floppy disk drive. The computer had a virus but thanks to a fellow Airliners.net member, he was able to clean out that entire virus.
Once the virus was cleaned out, we found some amazing photos of my neighbor.  
I never formally met her but I did see her from time to time on the train.

Thanks again Confucious! 



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineandz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8463 posts, RR: 10
Reply 98, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5143 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting ImperialEagle (Thread starter):
How long did your Mom and Dads appliances last?

I didn't read the whole thread but my parents have a side by side GE fridge/freezer that they bought in November 1974 and neither has left the kitchen since the day they were installed (fridge and freezer, not parents!).

Still working perfectly. As a GE employee that makes me proud.

Here we have a local brand called Defy, we still have a couple of their appliances I bought just before getting married in October 1984.



After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Reply 99, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5098 times:

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 93):
look up Gaggenau. What about other brands I haven't really seen mentioned here, such as Viking JennAir and Subzero? Just wondering.

Oh Gaggenau has PLENTY of issues----just like most of the other brands of new crap, the lack of quality electronic circuit boards is killing them. Jenn-Air was swallowed-up by Maytag before they themselves were swallowed-up by Whirlpool.


[quote=mirrodie,reply=93] how did you arrive to come to that advice?^^^ interesting trailer comment.

Experience in restoration as well as close friends in both the appliance and repair business.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 95):
Whirlpool Ice Maker's

All the US made icemakers come from one source. The individual manufacturers just pop them in and out as needed.

Quoting oly720man (Reply 96):
incompetent service engineers,

They either have sworn allegiance to a certain brand----because they are a factory authorized dealer, or maybe they work for an appliance store that only sells that brand. An independent service person is usually a bit older and much more experienced especially with machines that were the pre-crap era. They actually know HOW to repair a machine. The newer younger ones usually only know how to coax money out of you by charging for useless parts and services or they just tell you to go out and buy new because they want to get on to their next appointment or they just plain don't know how to work on your old machine, assume you just fell-off-of-the-turnip-truck, and they tell you any old thing they think you might believe just to blow you off.

Too bad. In another 10 years or so all the old-timers will be dead or retired and the new guys will be clueless when it comes to the old machines. The newer machines are all throw-outs anyway.

Quoting andz (Reply 98):
Still working perfectly. As a GE employee that makes me proud.

Yes, like many other manufacturers, years ago they really did know how to build a quality appliance. Most of us here in the US thought it was normal for a refrigerator or freezer to last 30 years or more. Now we are lucky to get 30 months. GE still makes a decent stove-----but-----you better get all the extended warranty you can buy because of the damned circuit-boards! GE killed their washers and dryers years ago by cheapening the product and trashing a tried and true design.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineoly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6843 posts, RR: 11
Reply 100, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5070 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 99):
They either have sworn allegiance to a certain brand----because they are a factory authorized dealer, or maybe they work for an appliance store that only sells that brand. An independent service person is usually a bit older and much more experienced especially with machines that were the pre-crap era.

The washing machine is Admiral. The service company covers a number of brands, afaik. They have 2 service engineers and my parents got the bad one. They tried to get a 2nd opinion from the other one (who had been previously for another issue), having heard about the delivery time for the parts, but unfortunately, once a service engineer has decided what needs fixing, that's final. The engineer would have come, but the powers that be said no, it wasn't covered on the policy.


It's a common theme on consumer programs on tv that repair men overstate the problems and charge hundreds for lots of repairs when the job is much more minor and sometimes just needs something adjusting rather than replacing.



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Reply 101, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5047 times:

Quoting oly720man (Reply 100):
The engineer would have come, but the powers that be said no, it wasn't covered on the policy.

Yes. And all these policies have some fine print somewhere that gives the manufacturer/repair technicians an "out" to "disclaim" something as having been caused by a natural disaster or some kind of (alleged) abuse.
Here in the US the favorite is "power-surge or Lightning strike"-----voids most warranties. So I am always very specific when purchasing an extended warranty to be sure it covers these issues.

I wish I was familiar with all the machines sold in the UK.
I highly reccommend the Speed Queen brand and most of the older experienced technicians would agree with me, I'm sure.

Here in the US, Maytag swallowed-up the Admiral brand and then they themselves were swallowed-up by Whirlpool who now owns that name. Whirlpool, just like Maytag did before it, uses that name on "lower-end" merchandise.
Plastic crap.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3875 posts, RR: 1
Reply 102, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5042 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 97):
The computer had a virus but thanks to a fellow Airliners.net member, he was able to clean out that entire virus.
Once the virus was cleaned out, we found some amazing photos of my neighbor.

I believe she was wearing a pearl necklace.   

You gave me that computer after I transferred the floppy drive to your other computer. I upgraded it and gave away to a former coworker a few years ago.



Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40066 posts, RR: 74
Reply 103, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5028 times:

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 102):
I believe she was wearing a pearl necklace.

Yes and had a mouth-full as well.

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 102):
You gave me that computer after I transferred the floppy drive to your other computer.

Yes.
...and the moral of the story is to not be so quick to throw out electronics and appliances away.

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 102):
I upgraded it and gave away to a former coworker a few years ago.

With those photos still on there?!?!?!?!   



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3875 posts, RR: 1
Reply 104, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5019 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 103):
Yes and had a mouth-full as well.

Right, facial cream too.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 103):
Yes.
...and the moral of the story is to not be so quick to throw out electronics and appliances away.

I still have a box full of old computer parts despite having recycled most of them this year.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 103):
With those photos still on there?!?!?!?!

Nope, it was wiped of all private data.



Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40066 posts, RR: 74
Reply 105, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5004 times:

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 104):
Right, facial cream too.

Some believe semen applied to the face has anti-aging benefits. So I found the images educational.

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 104):
I still have a box full of old computer parts despite having recycled most of them this year.

Next time you're in town, I've got to show you Pantip Plaza. You'd spend all day in there. It's one of the few places in Bangkok that sales used electronics and new stuff at bargain basement prices.
That is where I bought my IBM ThinkVision C220P Black 22" CRT monitor.
It was only $45 at Pantip yet it was still being sold new (up until last year) for $1369 brand new!
The build quality and picture quality is amazing. True color indeed!
Not concerned about new items that's only selling point is being newer, lighter and smaller. I'll take quality instead.
It also weight 85 pounds.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently onlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5533 posts, RR: 13
Reply 106, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 4961 times:

Imagine if such stalwarts of the lemon were still alive and kicking in today's motherboard, wimpy powered in the name of ecology appliances! I'm referring to noneother than Mad Man Muntz and the Godawful Montgomery Ward. Both were known for their lack of quality. Muntz did it especially with TV's if it required optimally 12 tubes back in the day, Mad Man Muntz did it on 6 with the expected results. Of course the lure were El-Cheapo purchase prices. Back then a full size Color TV with the round fishbowl screen for $299 was a steal or at least you thought till it had it's many problems.
Wards products were just bad luck things. I remember looking in the classifieds back in the early 80's looking for a dishwasher used and guess what? 9 out of 10 for sale were Wards. I wonder why???



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User currently offlinemirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7444 posts, RR: 62
Reply 107, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4937 times:
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Quoting Superfly (Reply 94):

You should have kept your Buick.

It was time. Miss it though.

Just got in from changing the window motor on the 2000 Nissan. 115K miles on it.

The Honda, well, lets just say I was less than enamored at how many things were not covered un the BUMPER to BUMPER warranty. Had to contact Corporate twice. Such a joke.

Since Im moving quite soon, I gotta know what applianes are worth keeping and ditching.



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User currently offlinemirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7444 posts, RR: 62
Reply 108, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4782 times:
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Quoting casinterest (Reply 95):
I have had Honda's and I have had a buick. I drove 2 Hondas to 200,000 miles with minimal normal MTC. I had to replace the Intake Gasket, wheel Bearings, and all 4 Electric Window motors on the Buick. Don't even get me started on the Ford that I had.

YMMV for sure. Driving a round a 2010 Honda pilot and a defective mirror and later, front compliance bushings were not covered even though I was well within the bumper-to-bumper warranty. I had to consult America Honda Corporation TWICE to honor their bumper-to-bumper warranty. They make you feel like they're doing you a favor meanwhile they won't honor their complete bumper-to-bumper warranty!

As of this posting this weekend, a new engine code came up. The third gear transmission switch is showing a failure. 61,000 miles. I bought a Honda thinking that I wouldn't buy a headache......

And funny you should mention the window motor on the Buick, last Wednesday I had to change out the window motor for the second time on the 2000 Nissan Altima.....

I'll take my chances on American...at least I'd be more likely to expect the problems.

As it relates to appliances, I do agree that there is a dumbing down of America. We are becoming more and more disposable society. But I don't think all hope is lost.

What's great is that we have YouTube and that there are hundreds of videos of the how to segment. As long as there are parts and people interested, how to videos , I feel help us immensely. I enjoy the pride and the feeling that I get when I fix something or create something. Moving into the next part of my life is a bigger house, I'm becoming more handy.

So once I move into the new house I know I have the new KitchenAid fridge in there, well I see new but it's stainless steel that's all I know. It'll be interesting to take a closer look at the other appliances come back to this thread and get advice. It's probably been the most informative threads of sitting here in a very long time.



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User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7822 posts, RR: 5
Reply 109, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4762 times:

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 93):
Can be said of a lot. Honestly, we bought a Honda and its been nothing buy quality issues. From here on it, I'd rather buy a solid American brand.
Quoting Superfly (Reply 94):
You should have kept your Buick.

My grandmothers 1st gen 1970's Honda Civic with hondamatic tranny is still going strong with well over 300,000km on the clock, all we do to it is fill it with gas, it hasn't been serviced in over a decade and is now just a car for anyone to use if they need it, but it still starts everytime, stops and goes.


User currently offlinemirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7444 posts, RR: 62
Reply 110, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4576 times:
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Guess the don't make rm like they used to, kiwi rob. Nothing but bs here.

Anyway, came across the following this morning, as it relates to the original post

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/n...-tweaks-its-washer-tests/index.htm


New washer tests. I wonder what the magazine would opt to say about this thread.



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User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Reply 111, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4557 times:

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 110):
New washer tests

They change the criteria too often to compare apples to apples. Has always been a problem with CU. So they would test how well Maytags could get out a grouping of tough stains and then test GE's with a whole different grouping of stains. Or they would test water extraction with towels in one set of machines and a mixed load in others.

Also inconsistencies such as for many years the comparisons between Kenmore and Whirpool washers.
Now, Whirlpool made all the Kenmore washers back then yet the Kenmore machines would constantly get a ranking better than the comparable Whirlpool----even though the machines were identical in everything but name!

Old-time salespeople always have a good laugh anytime they see someone come into the showroom with a CU Magazine or Book under-arm as they take that as a sign the customer is "clueless" when it comes to whatever they are shopping for.

The other problem with CU is the rating system.
They are only able to rate products based on how many of their subscribers reply to their questionaires. So when you look at the ratings they do not tell you how many people actually shared their experience with that product.

Oh, and for years and years the old Bendix and Westinghouse companies manufactured front-load washers in the US that CU was constantly giving poor ratings on because of lame water extraction, issues with oversudsing and poor performance overall when compared to TOP-LOADERS. But, the front-loaders did save water.
Today's front-loaders do extract water better than the old ones, are still susceptible to oversudsing (which severely degrades cleaning and rinsing performance) and they still cannot clean as well as the old top-loaders can. But, they do save water----sometimes. If you wash 6 loads a day in 10 years you could really see a water savings enough to justify the premium price you pay for that front-loader. If you wash 1-3 loads a week you are just not going to see significant savings. Not only that, but the new machines aren't going to last anywhere near 10 years unless you get a SQ.

Anyway, just 'sayin.

[Edited 2013-10-01 09:14:50]


"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently onlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5533 posts, RR: 13
Reply 112, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4475 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 111):

I.E. Actually, CU standardizes their tests. I know for dishwashers and DW detergents, they always describe their custom made slop they lard on the dishes and other stuff for each machine and measure out the detergent. etc.

Same goes for their laundry tests.

Regarding whirlpool and Kenmore, most of their stuff is identical but, one may mix and match parts so say the Kenmore gets the better quality parts.

Back in the day, detergent was suds, suds and more suds. Bendix rested on their laurels during the 1940's and the brand was sold and bandied about to different host companies. Were they not originally German? Westinghouse was usually maybe a cut above bottom feeders such as Norge and Monkey Wharts (Montgomery Wards) or as my folks used to say, the dreck you'd find in "Goy" households.

Back in the 50's they were always experimenting and the more chrome, lights and bells and whistles were what sold them. Some of the 1956 Bendix combo washer dryers (which bar-b-qued) the clothse with hot rinses and killer heat had control back panels that made them look like Wurlitzer Juke Boxes of the period. Some of those features were cool, kitschy and were fun to look at and now make fun of. Today due to PC and the environment, most of todays stuff looks identical to each other.



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User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 22
Reply 113, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4418 times:

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 112):
Same goes for their laundry tests.
Quoting zippyjet (Reply 112):
CU standardizes their tests

I disagree Zippy. They take a certain model of each manufacturers machine and rate them, say in January for cleaning ability, and then the same machines are rated later in the year with more emphasis on water extraction. So the machines that came out ahead on cleaning might have lame water extraction or vice-versa. I have seen it in action for years. So one looses it's place as the Best Rated. WTF?

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 112):
Back in the day, detergent was suds, suds and more suds

Well since most households after WWII were still using soaps instead of detergents, AND they were still using Wringer-Washers, the detergent makers made very oxygenated formulaes that kept a good layer of suds through the many additions of loads----the water was almost always re-used in the Wringer-Washers as rinsing was done in "set-sinks". Some Detergents such as ALL and DASH catered to the "low-suds" market when the Automatics came out---Bendix had the first PRIOR to WWII! Most of the brands we in the US are familiar with came out with Automatics AFTER WWII. A lot of suds was an advantage in the Wringer-Washers and a disadvantage in the front-loaders. A lot of people on well-water used a "suds-saving" feature available on certain US Automatics for years. The machine would pump the wash water into a holding sink and then procede on into the rest of the cycle. When you were ready to do the next load you set the machine to "return suds" and it would pump the previously used water back into the machine. Gross. But hey, you did what you had to do if water was at a premium.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 112):
Bendix rested on their laurels during the 1940's and the brand was sold and bandied about to different host companies.

Well, they were merged into the Philco Appliance Division of the Ford Motor Co. but not until the very late 50's or early 60's---I don't recall, the exact year and became Philco-Bendix. Bendix produced some of the very best of American Front-Loaders back in the day.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 112):
Some of the 1956 Bendix combo washer dryers (which bar-b-qued) the clothse with hot rinses and killer heat had control back panels that made them look like Wurlitzer Juke Boxes of the period. Some of those features were cool, kitschy and were fun to look at and now make fun of.

The Bendix Washer-Dryer Combinations were great (if somewhat complex) machines. (A surprising number of them still turn-up on the used market every year. I have one down-stairs that works perfectly.) They were very good at cleaning ability for a front-loader and they were very good at water extraction which was an issue for most front-loaders back in the day. Lots of heat was not something 100% Cottons had a problem with and in those days just about all garments were. When the Wash & Wear and man-made fabrics arrived it was a different story.

Back when most fabrics were 100% Cotton, the hottest washes and rinses also did the best job of cleaning and rinsing.And it still does.
(To this day I still use hot water to wash AND rinse 100% cotton loads such as towels, sheets and underwear.)
Very cold rinse water will not carry off the detergent very well. So I use a cold rinse in the summertime and switch to warm in the winter months.

The early automatic clothes dryers were very different from the ones of today.(The old Hamiltons were vented and they made some rebadged machines for other manufacturers such as GM/Frigidaire for a while.) Many of the early ones did not even need to be vented because they either had a method of extracting the humidity from the laundry by heat and internal air-flow or they used a method that sent a fine-spray of cold-water to capture the moisture and send it down the drain. Bendix, Maytag, GM/Frigidaire, GE and some others offered different versions of this type of dryer. By the late 1950's most were vented to the outside. That was not always very pretty as many brands did not have a lint filter and sent their lint right out of the vent pipe-----to flock the shrubry or side of the house with. Obviously, Gas Dryers needed outside venting. You have to keep in mind that even as late as the 1960's the vast majority of Americans did not own a clothes dryer and many were still doing their laundry with a Wringer-Washer.

Lighted Consoles were a great feature especially since many of the old homes back in the day were not set-up for Automatic Washers.(A Wringer-Washer had little wheels on it and could be moved around easily.) Many Automatics were delegated to a back corner of a dark basement or utility/tool room. If you had good lighting then the console lights were a good reminder that you had something "going" in the machine so you wouldn't forget it. And yes, some machines looked like Wurlitzers----they seemed to reach their peak in the late 50's and into the mid-60's and then the manufacturers began to cheapen their products. Slowly the lighted consoles disappeared except on the most TOL machines.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently onlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5533 posts, RR: 13
Reply 114, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4394 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 113):
The Bendix Washer-Dryer Combinations were great (if somewhat complex) machines. (A surprising number of them still turn-up on the used market every year. I have one down-stairs that works perfectly.) They were very good at cleaning ability for a front-loader and they were very good at water extraction which was an issue for most front-loaders back in the day. Lots of heat was not something 100% Cottons had a problem with and in those days just about all garments were. When the Wash & Wear and man-made fabrics arrived it was a different story.

Cool, do you still use it for towells and heavy duty stuff like blankets and denim? Was it gas or electric?

Imperial E: If it still works please film it and submit to you tube! Highlighting the different cycles. Thanks Simon/Zippy  wink 

[Edited 2013-10-03 16:26:01]


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