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Libyan Blunders Keep On Giving  
User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2609 posts, RR: 22
Posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4453 times:
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Just seems like no end to the bad new for this administration.
Here's todays good news:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...s-equipment-stolen-in-libya-raids/

Just another insight into the wanton incompetence of the Obama Administration.

On the upside the administration is working wonders for Putin.
From today's WSJ:

wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324094704579066774128762480.html?mod=hp_opinion

[Edited 2013-09-11 17:56:49]


"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
114 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinewingman From Seychelles, joined May 1999, 2267 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4438 times:

That article can't be real. Is it an Onion piece?

Terrorists can't get a hold of carbines: If I knew how to copy and paste I'd show you pictures of Libyans with AK 47s dating back to 1958.

Terrorists can't get a hold of night vision goggles: I can get some from the internet...does Libya have an internet? (maybe they stole one from the Special Internet Forces)

Terrorists can't a hold of laser pointers: uuuhhh, I can't even bring myself to repeat the above.

Is there anyone with a brain left at Fox News or do they just pander to people who would actually re-port their drivel as if it contained any kind of factual insight? I guess I'll have to go with "no" and "yes" on this final double Geopardee question.


User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3651 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4416 times:

Quoting wingman (Reply 1):

Terrorists can't get a hold of carbines: If I knew how to copy and paste I'd show you pictures of Libyans with AK 47s dating back to 1958.

Terrorists can't get a hold of night vision goggles: I can get some from the internet...does Libya have an internet? (maybe they stole one from the Special Internet Forces)

Terrorists can't a hold of laser pointers: uuuhhh, I can't even bring myself to repeat the above.

Is there anyone with a brain left at Fox News or do they just pander to people who would actually re-port their drivel as if it contained any kind of factual insight? I guess I'll have to go with "no" and "yes" on this final double Geopardee question.

Fox News seems to be quoting somebody. Are you hurt that they reported this at all? And I'd bet good money that those stolen weapons represent a nice step up in capability from what the average Libyan militia member is currently using.

In other news from Libya, a large bomb exploded outside the former US Embassy in Benghazi, now housing the foriegn ministry. AlQueda has opened up smuggling routes from the sout to fund itself. The police, army and government have made no presence and chaos is growing. You don't even have to go to Fox News to read all that in today's news.

Libya was a blunder.

[Edited 2013-09-11 18:43:35]

User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2874 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4403 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 2):
Fox News seems to be quoting somebody.

Yeah.... who ?????

A "source".... well... who ????

Quoting mham001 (Reply 2):
And I'd bet good money that those stolen weapons represent a nice step up in capability from what the average Libyan militia member is currently using.

Just like the "militia" in Syria, getting hold of weapons given to them by the US   

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...s-usa-rebels-idUSBRE9891EZ20130910

Quote from said article.

"The United States is providing lethal assistance "because they are sure that the mechanisms that the SMC has established are well tested and they will be sure that the weapons are not falling into the wrong hands," Saleh said."

I wouldn't be so sure at the end of the day, that they don't turn out to be the "wrong hands" though. Like its happened before.

But you guys have been involved in some many ME conflicts, its hardly surprising captured/seized weaponry has fallen into the wrong hands during this time.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 2):
Libya was a blunder.

And it wont be the last blunder either. There is another one just about to go off !



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlinepowerslide From Canada, joined Oct 2010, 569 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4393 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 2):
Libya was a blunder.

It is the cowards who run and live in Libya and Afghanistan who allow AlQ to takeover their country. They were given an opportunity to restart their country yet they ran away like little children. Only solution for both countries is to glass the place and start over.


User currently offlinesolarflyer22 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Nov 2009, 1088 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4355 times:

Quoting powerslide (Reply 4):
It is the cowards who run and live in Libya and Afghanistan who allow AlQ to takeover their country. They were given an opportunity to restart their country yet they ran away like little children. Only solution for both countries is to glass the place and start over.

I don't think in the west there is a understanding that places like Afghanistan and Libya are basically living 200 years in the past if not more. It will take 2-3 generations with a solid public education system before you see real change. Many of these places didn't really hit the industrial revolution until about WWII.


User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11660 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4347 times:

*facepalm* Not this sh*t again....

Rebels in Syria have Western weapons, therefore, Obama needs to be impeached!

That is the line of thinking among those in the "news" room at FOX. They just can't stand that Obama did something without invading and "nation building" like their hero.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7595 posts, RR: 18
Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4318 times:

We still don't know crap about what happened in Benghazi last year.

And this year another huge bombing took place....where's your news coverage of THAT, CNN? ?????????



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1658 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4298 times:

Quoting powerslide (Reply 4):
It is the cowards who run and live in Libya and Afghanistan who allow AlQ to takeover their country. They were given an opportunity to restart their country yet they ran away like little children. Only solution for both countries is to glass the place and start over.

Shows your lack of understanding of how things work in the area and that rather idiotic and misguided notion that "democracy" works for everybody.


User currently offlineAyostoLeon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4301 times:

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 5):

Is this opinion of Libya based on having traveled to or lived in the country?

Quoting powerslide (Reply 4):

You may find that the situation is a bit more complex than cowards running away in the face of the bogeyman al Qaeda.

The current unrest is less about wanting to install any kind of Islamic emirate and more a reflection of clashes between different interest groups. At stake are matters like who will have access to political influence, resources, profitable contracts and jobs. Some groups may use the language of Islam if it suits them. Others argue over whether Libya should have a more centralised structure or should there be greater regional autonomy. The recent disruption to oil exports is an illustration of this.

In between, there are the mass of Libyans who just want to go about living their lives and who have no desire to live in another century, however much people in the West comfort themselves with that notion.


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1225 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4288 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 2):
Libya was a blunder.

Whilst the transition of Libya's government isn't going as smoothly as we would like, I would say that the removal of a murderous autocrat in a manner that minimized civilian (and western military) deaths was reasonably successful. I'm sure the families of UTA 772 and Pan Am 103 victims are happy to see the end of Gaddafi.

Not everything is good, but there is progress.
http://www.libyaherald.com/2013/01/2...dom-success-stories/#axzz2eeZjH6OQ
http://www.economist.com/blogs/newsbook/2012/09/libya

Quote:
The most striking outcome of the congressional election in July was the relative failure of the Islamists, whose main party, Justice and Construction, allied to the Muslim Brotherhood, got only 17 out of the 80 seats elected by proportional representation on party lists, whereas a coalition of secularists, liberals and milder Islamists won 39
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 7):
And this year another huge bombing took place....where's your news coverage of THAT, CNN? ?????????

Um here?
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/11/wo...ca/libya-benghazi-blast/index.html

Quoting ImperialEagle (Thread starter):
Just seems like no end to the bad new for this administration.

Especially when you use fox news as a source.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 6):
That is the line of thinking among those in the "news" room at FOX. They just can't stand that Obama did something without invading and "nation building" like their hero.

But if he did do nation building they would crucify him for A) the cost and B) any american lives lost. You can't win with them and I hope Obama isn't wasting his time trying....and I'm not even a liberal.

As ever, just my 2c.  Smile

[Edited 2013-09-11 22:46:03]


Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlinepvjin From Finland, joined Mar 2012, 1263 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4257 times:

Quoting Acheron (Reply 8):
Shows your lack of understanding of how things work in the area and that rather idiotic and misguided notion that "democracy" works for everybody.

Indeed, democracy certainly does not work in Northern African and Middle Eastern Muslim countries, we have seen that very many times already.

Too bad Gaddafi lost it all, these countries need strong secular dictators in power to stay out of chaos.



"A rational army would run away"
User currently offlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7615 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4237 times:

zkojq

That assumes that that Libya did it.

My money has always been on a different theory.

Shortly before PanAm103, the USS Vincennes shot down an Iran Air A300.

I also note that when Gadaffi fell, there were expectations that the new leadership would "prove" that Gadaffi did it.

However, the issue just went quiet.


User currently offlineT prop From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1029 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4186 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Thread starter):

Just another insight into the wanton incompetence of the Obama Administration.

So you think Obama himself should have been on sentry to guard our 24 now missing highly sensitive (because fox idiot news said so) M16's?  


User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12569 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4138 times:
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Quoting T prop (Reply 13):
So you think Obama himself should have been on sentry to guard our 24 now missing highly sensitive (because fox idiot news said so) M16's?

Well, everything else is his fault, isn't it?



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14027 posts, RR: 62
Reply 15, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4092 times:

So far I have seen in the haqnds of Libyan militionaries:

AK-47 and AK-74 rifles, FN FAL rifles, G3 rifles and G36 rifles. The AK-74 and the G36 are current issue in their respective home countries (e.g. the G36 is the current standard rifle of the German Bundeswehr. Ghaddafi´s son, while "studying" in Bavaria, bought bunches of them from Heckler & Koch to equip his personal militia with them. An attempted prosecution by German prosecutors for illegal arms exports was stopped by the German government of this time (pre-revolution) due to national interests). The AK-74 is the current russian army issue. So a few M16s won´t make a difference.

Btw., in neighbouring Tunisia (where the Arab spring started) people are getting increasingly fed up with the Islamist (Muslim brothers style) government, which won the first elections after thevrevolution, and are calling for a secular government and state.

For comparison to Christians: The Muslim Brothers are the Sunni equivalent of ultraconservative Catholics, while the Wahabis, Salafists and AQ are the equivalent of the rabid bible thumping evangelists, with the bible in one hand and a rifle in the other.

Due to having been banned in the Arab countries since decades, the Muslim Brothers developed a conspirative hierarchical system and were well organised. Additionally funding from Saudi Arabia and Qatar allowed them to be free with handouts, this way they captured the votes of the uneducated poor. The secular part of the rebels were mostly small ad hoc groups, prone to infighting and arguments about how to run the country and mostly organised by idealistic political amateurs.

The Wahabi and Salafist groups were always militant and had a strict military hierarchy. Unlike the political amateurs of the secular groups they are willing to use force and to sacrifice themselves and others to reach their goals. For them death doesn´t matter because they will be rewarded in heaven anyway.

Jan


User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4628 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4058 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Thread starter):
Just seems like no end to the bad new for this administration.
Here's todays good news:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...s-equipment-stolen-in-libya-raids/

Just another insight into the wanton incompetence of the Obama Administration.

Really, at the end of the day you blame Obama? This article was obviously written by an idiot.

They don't question .
1. Why would US troops leave VITAL equipment at a Foreign compound without US oversight? Was the equipment even the US's anymore?
2. If at the end of the day we pulled out because the Libyan Military was not cooperating with the investigations?

There is no hard hitting journalistic credibility to any of this articles data, and it just proves further the point that Fake news is not much of the latter, but a lot of the former.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3651 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4031 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 16):
There is no hard hitting journalistic credibility to any of this articles data, and it just proves further the point that Fake news is not much of the latter, but a lot of the former.

I searched but I found NO other sources reporting this, even though they have State Department statements. In fact, I did not even know we had special forces in Libya until now. I'm not a fan of Fox News but I highly appreciate hearing ALL the news. Having 1200 Special Forces chased out of Libya is indeed interesting news.

When people attack Fox News for the sake of attacking a political point, they identify themselves as having an agenda that is certainly no better than Fox News. They are usually more interested in suppressing information.

Are you hurt that they reported this?


User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4628 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4021 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 17):
I searched but I found NO other sources reporting this

1st clue.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 17):
In fact, I did not even know we had special forces in Libya until now.

2nd clue

Quoting mham001 (Reply 17):
In fact, I did not even know we had special forces in Libya

3rd clue

Quoting mham001 (Reply 17):
When people attack Fox News for the sake of attacking a political point, they identify themselves as having an agenda that is certainly no better than Fox News. They are usually more interested in suppressing information.

Are you the writer of the article mentioned? to turn around a clearly politically motivated and purely ignorant article into an attack on me, seems a bit off post unless you arte the author of such a piece of crap article.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11660 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3997 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 17):
When people attack Fox News for the sake of attacking a political point, they identify themselves as having an agenda that is certainly no better than Fox News.

Here is what I see: They run a story and bring on "experts" who then tell everyone that Obama and Democrats are to blame. That is what is sold as news. At the same time, they bill themselves as "fair and balanced" but how can they be "fair and balanced" when all they do is blame Obama and the Democrats? No, MSNBC is no better, but at least they don't claim they are "fair and balanced".

If you truly like hearing news from all sides, why don't you read about this story from al-Jezeera? Why don't you see what BBC has to say?



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineoffloaded From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 886 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3990 times:

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 5):
I don't think in the west there is a understanding that places like Afghanistan and Libya are basically living 200 years in the past if not more.

Afghanistan isn't much like Libya at all. There are only 6 million Libyans living in the 4th largest country in Africa (maybe 3rd now Sudan is divided in two). They have a lot of oil, free education, healthcare, fairly decent infrastructure, and now, they have freedom. Whilst it is far from perfect, most Libyans including 100% of the ones I know, have zero desire to turn Libya into Iran Part 2.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 11):
Too bad Gaddafi lost it all, these countries need strong secular dictators in power to stay out of chaos.

After 40 years, I'm going to give the Libyans a chance of something better. I'm guessing you've never lived in fear, or lived somewhere where anyone opposing the regime simply disappeared; think USSR, GDR etc at their very worst.

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 12):
My money has always been on a different theory.

  

Quoting AyostoLeon (Reply 9):
Is this opinion of Libya based on having traveled to or lived in the country?

I base mine on my time there between 82 and 89... and keeping in touch with friends. (I did suggest that the Mods update your flag 18 months ago; they're not exactly quick to respond....)



To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
User currently offlineGatorman96 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3962 times:

Not sure what the big deal is. So they came away with a few dozen specialized M-4's and night vision goggles. We are not the only country that produces these items and I'm sure militants have already purchased/stolen this equipment many times in the past.

Al Qaeda has acquired this equipment (including US issued military uniforms) many times in Afghanistan that was stripped off service members who were KIA.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't a good thing by any stretch, but seems to be more of a political attack than anything else...



Cha brro
User currently offlineGatorman96 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3952 times:

Quoting pvjin (Reply 11):
Too bad Gaddafi lost it all, these countries need strong secular dictators in power to stay out of chaos.

You keep saying this and I fail to see your logic. If a dictatorship was so great, than why is there unrest in Libya, Egypt, Syria, et al in the first place? There is no chaos because the dictator kills anyone who utters a negative word about them.

Is that a society you'd like to live in to avoid "chaos?" Pretty sure you are in the minority here...



Cha brro
User currently offlinepvjin From Finland, joined Mar 2012, 1263 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3923 times:

Quoting Gatorman96 (Reply 22):
You keep saying this and I fail to see your logic. If a dictatorship was so great, than why is there unrest in Libya, Egypt, Syria, et al in the first place? There is no chaos because the dictator kills anyone who utters a negative word about them.

Is that a society you'd like to live in to avoid "chaos?" Pretty sure you are in the minority here...

I never said living in a dictatorship is nice, however it still beats what's happening in Iraq, people dying all the time because of bomb attacks committed by different religious extremist groups. As bad as Saddam was he at least kept those groups in order and by doing that probably saved quite a lot of civilian lives. (and yes, probably by gassing Kurdish people he killed even more but that's irrelevant as most of these dictators haven't been even half as bad as him)

I fear what's happening in Iraq might be the future in Syria too if Assad loses, while Libya and Egypt don't look as bad there's still fear that actual extremists might eventually gain too much power.

Lack of education and religious extremism, those are the reasons why it's extremely hard to create a proper lasting democracy in any of these countries. If you give people the right to vote whoever they wish eventually a lot of the uneducated are going to vote based on who their religious leaders tell them to, not who would actually do something good for their country. Just look at what happened in Egypt before military intervened, they were falling under new dictatorship, this time very religious one which makes it way worse than the one before.

To make democracy work majority of voters should be educated enough to actually form their own fact based opinion about things instead of just listening what some Islamists tell them.


If I have to choose living in a state with failed democracy, constantly having to fear for my life VS living in a secular dictatorship with safety as long as I don't speak against the government sure I would choose the latter one. It's not like you could openly criticize things related to religion in a fake democracy ruled by islamists and expect not to get killed anyway.



"A rational army would run away"
User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2609 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3888 times:
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Quoting wingman (Reply 1):
Is there anyone with a brain left at Fox News or do they just pander to people who would actually re-port their drivel as if it contained any kind of factual insight? I guess I'll have to go with "no" and "yes" on this final double Geopardee question

Typical far left reaction. You guys are just against the idea of "freedom of speech". Anybody that dissagrees with your train of thought must be brain dead----right?

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 7):
We still don't know crap about what happened in Benghazi last year.

Exactly. Swept under the rug because Hillary says says it doesn't matter any more.
A stinking coverup and they all have AMERICAN blood on their hands which is why they don't want the tawdry truth to get out.

And this year another huge bombing took place....where's your news coverage of THAT, CNN? ?????????


Oh yeah, I say thank the Heavens for news agencies who report the stories the "mainstream press" neglects to inform us of. What they DON'T tell us is worse than misinformation sometimes.

Quoting zkojq (Reply 10):
Especially when you use fox news as a source.

Another one who doesn't agree with the idea of "freedom of speech".

Quoting pvjin (Reply 11):
Too bad Gaddafi lost it all, these countries need strong secular dictators in power to stay out of chaos.

That is pretty much how I see it as well.

Quoting T prop (Reply 13):
So you think Obama himself should have been on sentry to guard our 24 now missing highly sensitive (because fox idiot news said so) M16

Obama is the PRESIDENT. He DAMNED WELL BETTER KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON! He is proving that both he and his cabinet are reaching new heights of incompetency.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 17):
I'm not a fan of Fox News but I highly appreciate hearing ALL the news. Having 1200 Special Forces chased out of Libya is indeed interesting news.

YES! That's my point over the news source argument. We might not like what some agencies have to say, yet we had better listen to it all to make a reasonable decision about where we stand.
Thank Heavens for "Freedom of Speech"!

Quoting mham001 (Reply 17):
When people attack Fox News for the sake of attacking a political point, they identify themselves as having an agenda that is certainly no better than Fox News. They are usually more interested in suppressing information.
Are you hurt that they reported this?

Exactly. They want to supress news contrary to their beliefs. They don't want anyone to hear the other side. Ever!
So they try to illegitimize those with other opinions.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 19):
why don't you read about this story from al-Jezeera? Why don't you see what BBC has to say?

Oh yeah. Now, those agencies are known for being "fair and balanced".  
Quoting Gatorman96 (Reply 22):
Is that a society you'd like to live in to avoid "chaos?

No. Who would want that? It's just that I get his point. because-------

Quoting pvjin (Reply 23):
As bad as Saddam was he at least kept those groups in order and by doing that probably saved quite a lot of

Why do so many Islamic countries have swords on their national flags? Because they KNOW THEIR ELEMENT. If they don't rule by the sword they know the people will run amok.
They also have very low rates of theft and murder.
Yeah, the dictators are still bad guys. The alternative appears to be anarchy.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 23):
a lot of the uneducated are going to vote based on who their religious leaders tell them to, not who would actually do something good for their country.

(Wow, sounds like the Evangelicals here in the US!) I would agree with you on that.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 23):
If I have to choose living in a state with failed democracy, constantly having to fear for my life VS living in a secular dictatorship with safety as long as I don't speak against the government sure I would choose the latter one. It's not like you could openly criticize things related to religion in a fake democracy ruled by islamists and expect not to get killed anyway.

I think that is as good an opinion as any.   



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
25 Mir : Seems like the military just took bad care of their weapons. Not sure how you can pin that on the Administration. That stuff is several levels down t
26 ImperialEagle : Especially if you feel the need to illegitimize the opinions of those who dissagree with yours.
27 mham001 : Since the demise of the newspaper, I read whatever pops up on Google News. Occasionally that is Fox News. Is that OK? If not for this thread, I would
28 casinterest : As opposed to the Fake news network? I still haven't seen a reputable source reporting this in any other mainstream or leftstream network. Whatever y
29 casinterest : I attacked all of it, the information included, am I a knee jerk for pointing out that the Fake news network lacks integrity from omitting such thing
30 Post contains images Acheron : Because now living under the rule of group nutjobs who won't only disappear you but actually behead, stone you or hang you for being of the wrong bra
31 Gatorman96 : You are making massive assumptions with absolutely no evidence to back them. If you were in Saddam, Assad, or Gaddafi's inner circle, life was grand.
32 Gatorman96 : What? Stonings, beheadings and hangings have been a means of punishment in the Middle East for thousands of years, particularly under the current and
33 wingman : I'm not making my comments based on my political beliefs, I'm making my comments because I deplore stupidity. The article posted by the OP was writte
34 Aesma : Al Qaeda doesn't run any country, not even Somalia. That's the precise reason why there are bombings and other terrorist attacks, because they don't
35 Acheron : Only if you went against the current rulers. Your islamist buddies will do that just for being born anything but sunni. As if the French have ever ca
36 gatorman96 : There is no way that Democracy will come to this Middle East anytime soon, but do I think it may in occur in some ME countries 10, 20 years from now?
37 AyostoLeon : The flags of majority Muslim countries are far more likely to display a star or crescent - the five pointed star representing the five pillars of Isl
38 Post contains images T prop : ...
39 zkojq : What happened to 'guns don't kill people, people kill people'? That's a pretty good description. I'd rather not go down this route as it is a whole di
40 Post contains links mham001 : Like it or not, Fox News has produced exclusive stories in the past that the others apparently did not want to touch. I do not watch them and don't e
41 wingman : Holy shit, I hadn't realized the true extent of the debacle. If this is true that terrorists now have access to 4WD vehicles with internal combustion
42 seb146 : So, I don't get it: United States gives weapons and vehicles to the Libyan rebels. Those items are in complete control of Libyans. Now, they are not.
43 Post contains images ImperialEagle : Yup. That's pretty much the case. They think if Anderson Cooper or Rachel Maddow say it then it must be "from the lips of G-D". Well, whatever "facts
44 Post contains links mham001 : While your hyperbole is commendable, your reasoning and desire to hide the news that Libya is in dissarray is not. The US did not give these weapons
45 Flighty : This is very funny. Another thing that drives these people nuts. Obama is black! Now for other issues, he is there for criticism, but Bengazi is a co
46 Post contains links BN747 : 13 Benghazis Happened Under President Bush and Fox News Said Nothing http://www.policymic.com/articles/40...ent-bush-and-fox-news-said-nothing Just a
47 Post contains links Dreadnought : A 2 minute search results in the same story (written separately) in Fox, Washington Post, Huff Post, The Daily Mail and the Telegraph in the UK, and
48 BN747 : Nice try to mask what truly upsets you. Embassies dating back to 'forever'... have always made requests for security assistance, enhancements, added
49 DeltaMD90 : Would you be ashamed if you sold me a gun and I went and sold it to a felon? Why would you care, you sold it to me legitimately. We aren't talking ab
50 einsteinboricua : I thought the whole purpose of having different departments was to have more people responsible for its activities. By your logic, if the local McDon
51 PHX787 : Both of you have this whole thing out of control. of course Benghazi's happened under Bush. AND CLINTON. AND REAGAN. Hell, Lockerbie happened. But eac
52 BN747 : No we didn't! The 400+ Marines killed in the Embassy Barracks Bombing (Reagan era) are still partying it up in East Beirut somewhere. I doubt if any
53 Dreadnought : And here comes the hand grenade in the room, meant to shut everyone up by calling them racist if they say anything negative about Obama.
54 BN747 : Not meant to do anything...by all means 'keep speaking your mind', just don't expect the people who know better to 'pretend they can't see what you'r
55 seb146 : Because, from the first second this tragedy occurred, the right was screaming how Obama let them die. Don't tell me I am making this partisan. It sta
56 BN747 : It really helps to read ALL posts in a thread.. It's not a complicated tactic or ploy by any means. I guess they haven't gotten to point of teaching
57 seb146 : ummmm.... not always. I am a racist. I know I am. I accept that. I do not like Koreans, my sisters-in-law, not withstanding. However, as I said in my
58 BN747 : With your proclaimed dislike of Koreans, you've just scored major points with many righties on that score alone. They won't come forward publicly, bu
59 seb146 : I said "air of racism" because many the far right loud mouths are not stupid enough to come right out and say what they want to say. They used code w
60 BN747 : I don't care why you don't like them..at this point, I pegged you as a much smarter person. Sure I can, and am...at this point you can make up anythi
61 rfields5421 : ?? What I'm against is bad journalism practices - calling an unsupported opinion piece a news story. If anyone turned in that article in a journalism
62 wingman : This thread should probably die soon, not sure how it veered off into such a tangent. My closing remarks on it, in all seriousness, will be to echo wh
63 Aesma : Are you talking about the conditions of such colonies when they were colonies, or now ? We intervened in Mali, a former colony, in part to stop such
64 kiwirob : Gulf War 1 was necessary, Gulf War 2 was a complete BS war and should never have happened, so yes you should have left him alone, he was doing no wro
65 seb146 : Saddam, evil as he was, led a secular government. He allowed women to educate themselves. He allowed Christians to worship. Al-Qaida hated that about
66 ImperialEagle : Wow, just who do you think think you are to speak so harshly and make such judgements towards another member of this blog? Did I miss something? Some
67 casinterest : And you have proved nothing in this thread close to it. It is just another example of dogmatic attacks.
68 ImperialEagle : Ah, o.k. and you are entitled to you're opinion.
69 rfields5421 : President George H. W. Bush's goal to liberate Kuwait in 1991 was completed successfully. He managed to put together a greater coalition of nations t
70 Post contains images ImperialEagle : Right. Halliburton is a disgrace. The taxpayers poured so much money into that company it was like water pouring through a sieve. Ridiculous! Oh, the
71 AyostoLeon : Not only did Saddam allow Christians to worship but his foreign minister was a Christian. So far so good. But I think it is a bit far fetched to sugg
72 rfields5421 : Your information is incorrect, or your statement is incomplete. No one told ALL the US military forces to stand down. Just some of the units in Europ
73 Post contains links seb146 : Not according to Bush II. Or, at least those he surrounded himself with. It is documented that those in the administration were looking for any reaso
74 mham001 : I'm thinking the biggest 'racist' in this thread is you. This is an interesting comment (which I tend to agree with) BUT I routinely see reporters' p
75 AyostoLeon : I am moved by your post as it is based on personal experience. I share the sadness at the loss of colleagues that you knew. Sadly, your post reminds
76 Post contains links ChaosTheory : You're off base here. Saudi Arabia has never funded the "Ikhwanis" or the muslim brotherhood. In fact, if you had followed the events of the Arab Spr
77 rfields5421 : A reporter's personal opinion is allowed, when it is listed as opinion, not as fact. A 'news' organization that doesn't differentiate between persona
78 seb146 : Thank you for explaining this difference. I only wish those on the extreme right would understand this when it comes to Obama and Benghazi. They are
79 Post contains images RyanairGuru : Actually yes. There is no such thing as totally non-biased reporting, but if you are going to read just one news source about the Middle East (exclud
80 seb146 : That is what I try to point out but people don't get. When I watch CNN, I watch it knowing they have an agenda. But, when I watch al-Jazeera or BBC o
81 ImperialEagle : Yes, but I do prefer the Jerusalem Post. Wow. So you believe the BBC and Al-Jazeera are not biased? Seriously? I find them both anti-semitic as hell!
82 Post contains images RyanairGuru : I go for Haaretz myself I agree that neither could be described as a huge supporter of Israel, which is why I don't rely on them for Israeli issues (
83 PHX787 : Dude....I've done research for so many years...and one doesn't NEED to do research to know that WHEN TERRORIST are SHOOTING AT YOUR COMPOUND, you BLO
84 seb146 : So, because some European commander decided it would take hours to get troops and supplies to Benghazi, it is Obama's fault? Obama is bad because he
85 Aesma : Well just over you we see that being against what Israel does equals being anti-semitic. Seems the race card cuts both ways.
86 Post contains links rwy04lga : I looked but found no weapons on any US state flag. Correct me if I'm wrong, please. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_U.S._states
87 seb146 : Some people believe there are only black and white as answers while others understand there are a million or more shades of grey. Some people would s
88 airportugal310 : Take a quick look at the Massachusetts flag...there are actually TWO Bow and a sword (born and raised there...never saw the sword before!)
89 AyostoLeon : There are others. Virginia has a man holding a spear over another he has defeated, New York features a sword held by the personification of Justice.
90 RyanairGuru : Also Delaware and Georgia
91 PHX787 : You just proved my point 100%. We shouldn't rely on a EUROPEAN BASED commander for our own diplomatic compounds. Obama should've known this was comin
92 bennett123 : How is Europe involved?.
93 seb146 : We have commanders for our bases in Europe. These are American commanders on American bases controlling American troops. These bases and troops and c
94 rfields5421 : The United States has military forces in large numbers able to make a hostile landing in a foreign country in only a few places around the world. For
95 mham001 : As Libya spirals further out of control... Search; Libyan Prime Minister Is Kidnapped, Then Freed New York Times CAIRO — Libya’s prime minister, A
96 seb146 : Yes. And, despite those warnings, he still went. On his own. So, you want the military micro-managed? Like in Vietnam? That worked out well, didn't i
97 PHX787 : It's barely even managed at all right now. Look at how we handled Iraq.
98 KiwiRob : I don't see the big deal, 5 died, 10 were injured, is it really worth all the anguish and a witch hunt.
99 scbriml : It will always be worth it for the right as long as a Democrat's in the White House.
100 seb146 : "You go in with the military you have, not the military you want" -Donald Rumsfeld Besides, what does that have to do with an ambassador who decided,
101 mham001 : That is highly simplistic. We should not have been there in the first place. Obama created the chain of events that led to his death. I for one don't
102 AyostoLeon : It is noticeable that no-one cares a bit about what is actually happening in Libya. The title of the thread could easily be changed to "The Executive
103 mham001 : You're right. We should not discuss Libya at all. If not for this thread that I keep dragging up from death, Libya would not be mentioned at all anyw
104 AyostoLeon : Discuss Libya all you want, if it is Libya that you are duscussing. But it clear from the previous responses that Libya is not the issue. Not a singl
105 mham001 : You are going to have to realize that US politics is having a direct effect on Libya, like it or not. The average Libyan might want to be concerned ab
106 zckls04 : You're right of course- Libya is being used as a political football; most of those ranting about Libya couldn't find it on a map. I am interested in
107 seb146 : Like Iraq? IIRC, people were begging for the United States to assist the new Libyan government and new Libyan forces to help get rid of the Qaddafi i
108 PHX787 : To quote this guy is not such a good idea....He had no idea how to deliver warfare.
109 seb146 : But, that is the same thing you are being critical of with this administration. This administration was handed a hot mess made by the previous admini
110 mham001 : LOL. Blame it on Bush. Fact is, Bush had quite a bit of success taming Qaddafi. I thought about this some more. You are right. I for one do not care
111 rfields5421 : That guy was the Republican Party "Go To" expert on the military and warfare for close to 40 years. He set the policy of civilianizing as many suppor
112 seb146 : I am not "blaming Bush" for Libya. I am simply saying the Bush administration started wars and expanded the government. Obama simply let the people o
113 PHX787 : You are blaming bush on other things, though. Obama's job was to FIX things Bush made wrong...not make them worse. Well....he made them worse. My job
114 seb146 : How? Job growth has happened. Dow is higher than ever. People are finally going to afford health care. How is all of that bad? You can't get a job in
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