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Putins Open Letter To America  
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2873 posts, RR: 8
Posted (1 year 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3765 times:

He makes some very pertinent points.

I especially like this quote....

"It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation. There are big countries and small countries, rich and poor, those with long democratic traditions and those still finding their way to democracy. Their policies differ, too. We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal. "

What are your thoughts ?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/op...-on-syria.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


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96 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11657 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3760 times:

Someone expressed an opinion and people are freaking out about it. So what? I don't get what the big deal is. He is saying what he sees from his point of view. People can be free to agree or disagree with him to any degree. I don't get the whole "I'm offended he says anything" stance. He is human. He has an opinion.


Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7703 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3744 times:
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Quoting seb146 (Reply 1):
I don't get the whole "I'm offended he says anything" stance. He is human. He has an opinion.

  

Quite. And, he also happens to lead a very powerful country, whether we like that or not, or whether we choose to admit that or not.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2089 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3700 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 1):
He is human. He has an opinion.

He also intervenes in a debate which he wouldn't allow to even take place in his own country. That may be why people are upset about it. It's fair enough to speak about peace and tolerance, but if you as a President are responsible for a lot of violence (Chechnya, Syria), and at the same time repress any domestic debate, it may not exactly be appropriate to preach about it in the free media of other countries.



Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8908 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3670 times:

Quoting Rara (Reply 3):
He also intervenes in a debate which he wouldn't allow to even take place in his own country. That may be why people are upset about it. It's fair enough to speak about peace and tolerance, but if you as a President are responsible for a lot of violence (Chechnya, Syria), and at the same time repress any domestic debate, it may not exactly be appropriate to preach about it in the free media of other countries.

Well said. Mr. Putin goes by the rule of do as I say, not as I do. He is the epitome of Hypocrisy.

[Edited 2013-09-12 19:43:00]


It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2873 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3656 times:

Quoting Rara (Reply 3):
He also intervenes in a debate which he wouldn't allow to even take place in his own country.

No leader is perfect or impervious to rebuke.

Quoting Rara (Reply 3):
it may not exactly be appropriate to preach about it in the free media of other countries.

Maybe, but its a good way to get the message across. And If that message can potentially stop further conflict, then I'm all for it

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 4):
Putin goes by the rule of do as I say, not as I do. He is the epitome of Hypocrisy.

No one is perfect. And Im sure as hell, there are many thing the US has done, that could be construed hypocrisy.



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8908 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3651 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 5):
No one is perfect. And Im sure as hell, there are many thing the US has done, that could be construed hypocrisy.

As you say, not everyone is perfect. A former head of the KGB certainly is not one to preach to the US about anything. They perfected hypocrisy to the highest degree.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7703 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3639 times:
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Quoting Rara (Reply 3):
but if you as a President are responsible for a lot of violence (Chechnya, Syria)

To be fair, while it might not have been pretty, Chechnya is more peaceful now than it has been probably at any time since the breakdown of the USSR. There are still problems of course, and much of the violence has been displaced to other neighbouring regions. However, the point still stands. I know we associate Chechnya with war and violence, but most of that wasn't sown during Putin's reign, and the fact is that the republic has developed considerably in recent years.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11657 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3629 times:

Quoting Rara (Reply 3):
He also intervenes in a debate which he wouldn't allow to even take place in his own country

And there is debate based on facts in the United States? Or is the debate in the United States based on "facts" based on a slant and agenda?

Quoting Rara (Reply 3):
That may be why people are upset about it.

People talk about nation building and spreading democracy around the world like we have in the United States but voting rights are being taken away and the sick just die and the hungry just die in the United States. How does that make the United States any better?

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 4):
Mr. Putin goes by the rule of do as I say, not as I do. He is the epitome of Hypocrisy.

Kinda like the United States? yep.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3103 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3627 times:

I have to say that I was speechless when I finished reading it. He makes some very good points and that last quote was really a good closing argument.

I realize that Putin is far from the perfect leader, but I think it's not a bad idea for the US to get a wake up call in general, even if from a leader that oppresses domestic opposition.

Let's not forget that at the end of the day, the US is also rather two-faced in many issues. We talk about being created equal but we all know that we don't all get equal treatment. We talk about freedoms like free speech or religion, and yet we see authorities infringing on them. We talk about the oppression of certain people yet turn a blind eye to Israel's treatment of Palestinians or the Saudi's persecution of those who do not adhere to Islamic principles.

So having a two-faced leader tell a two-faced nation how to behave, while ironic, is simply an eye opener.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2873 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3623 times:

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 6):
They perfected hypocrisy to the highest degree.

Well, I disagree.

I reckon that award falls a little closer to home (your home) than you might think.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 8):
How does that make the United States any better?

Your right, It doesn't one bit, in fact it makes the world a whole lot more dangerous.



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8908 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3612 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 9):
So having a two-faced leader tell a two-faced nation how to behave, while ironic, is simply an eye opener.
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 10):
I reckon that award falls a little closer to home (your home) than you might think.

Please provide a list of nations that The USSR, or Russia has freed from tyranny in the last 100 years. Freed, not enslaved for 50 years. Please provide a list of humanitarian deeds they have performed, such as starvation relief, earthquake relief, natural disasters etc. I will look for all their good deeds tomorrow night. I know you guys must have plenty on your lists. They are so well known for their good deeds. Just ask Eastern Europe how well they made out under the old Dictators of old and the new one named Putin. Yes sir, the KGB was well known. It was not for being humanitarian. I suspect the new organization is not either. Keep on dreaming boys, we will keep you free. We always have.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2446 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3592 times:

Putin's letter was very crafty. He really threw Obama under the bus. LOL. Putin is in charge of these things now re. Syria. Amazing how the tide turned.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 6):
As you say, not everyone is perfect. A former head of the KGB certainly is not one to preach to the US about anything. They perfected hypocrisy to the highest degree.

LOL the US who started a false war against Iraq because of George W. Bush's nonsense about regime change. The reasons changed as everyone realized it was initially BS. The world woke up.

People like you blame Putin for playing Cold War politics, yet you do the same thing.

[Edited 2013-09-12 21:03:21]


oh boy!!!
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11657 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3575 times:

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 12):
Putin is in charge of these things now re. Syria. Amazing how the tide turned.

Syria and Russia are allies. Putin has more control over Syria than the United States does.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2873 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3572 times:

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 11):
They are so well known for their good deeds.

They must be.....

Contributions to UN
Peacekeeping:

US$400 million

http://www.globalhumanitarianassistance.org/countryprofile/russia

Not an insignificant amount by any means.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 11):
Keep on dreaming boys, we will keep you free. We always have.

Its little wonder the US has the reputation it currently has, with attitudes like that.   

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 12):
LOL the US who started a false war against Iraq because of George W. Bush's nonsense about regime change.

Spot on.
That's one for the history books, and as for regime change, what regime are we looking at now. Complete turmoil....
Thanks America !



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User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21634 posts, RR: 55
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3535 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Thread starter):
What are your thoughts ?

Well, when he says:

We need to use the United Nations Security Council and believe that preserving law and order in today’s complex and turbulent world is one of the few ways to keep international relations from sliding into chaos. The law is still the law, and we must follow it whether we like it or not. Under current international law, force is permitted only in self-defense or by the decision of the Security Council. Anything else is unacceptable under the United Nations Charter and would constitute an act of aggression.

I wonder if he'd apply the same logic to taking military action against Georgia. Actually, he didn't.

Quoting Rara (Reply 3):
He also intervenes in a debate which he wouldn't allow to even take place in his own country.

The joke I've seen going around the internets is that he's placed himself in mortal danger by becoming a Russian journalist.   

Quoting Rara (Reply 3):
That may be why people are upset about it.

No need to get upset about it - if he wants to put his opinion out there, I'm happy to let him do it. And I'm just as happy to ignore it if I don't believe it has merit.

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 12):
Putin's letter was very crafty. He really threw Obama under the bus. LOL. Putin is in charge of these things now re. Syria. Amazing how the tide turned.

Isn't it a good thing that Obama isn't in charge of the Syria situation? Isn't that what you want?

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2446 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3527 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 13):
Syria and Russia are allies. Putin has more control over Syria than the United States does.

Thank you Captain Obvious.

I don't believe Putin has any control over al-Assad. Putin only offered Assad an exit. Assad doesn't want to give up his chemical weapons...only guess what...by giving them up...Assad is ensuring his staying in power. Why? There can't be any easy regime change in a country with chemical weapons that ensures their safety and non-proliferation.

Under the Russian plan, Assad has to remain in power to ensure the security of the chemical weapons while they are being destroyed. I bet on the destruction process taking in excess of 15-20 years. Putin wants to retain some influence in the Middle East re. Tartus et. al. So it is a win-win situation for Putin and Assad.

If Assad goes, the safety of the chemical weapons cannot be ensured, and it is game over.

Israel, the US, Russia, the Arab League, and everyone else have a lot to worry about if Assad falls.

Personally, I do not believe Basher al-Assad himself ordered these chemical strikes. It seems to me more the work of a rogue general, or as some reports suggest, his brother Maher.

This Arab Spring notion, of the entrenched leaders being ruthless dictators, and the rebels being innocent saviors has gotten old. These rebels are often worse than the dictators...many of whom the US and EU supported over decades. Please, the holier than thou, "we're doing this in the interest of human rights," nonsense got old a decade ago with Iraq.



oh boy!!!
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13602 posts, RR: 61
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3526 times:
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Quoting TheCommodore (Thread starter):
We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal. "

Is that so? How about treating us equally, then?

Signed,

The LGBT community of Russia



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2446 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3519 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 15):
Isn't it a good thing that Obama isn't in charge of the Syria situation? Isn't that what you want?

Yes it is. And yes it is what I want. I have been a hardcore Obama supporter, he has disappointed me terribly with regards to the NSA, prosecuting whistle-blowers, WikiLeaks, and now Syria. I am still a moderate liberal and a registered Democrat...more of my opinion is in my post below yours.



oh boy!!!
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2873 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3515 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 17):
Is that so? How about treating us equally, then?

Signed,

The LGBT community of Russia

Good example

I am one affected by this too EA CO AS, and I'm not particularly happy about it. As I said earlier, very little in life is perfect, especially people, Putin include.

Hopefully Russia will learn to grow, and realize that the current attitude/treatment of gays/lesbians is not the right path to go down. And I think, given time, they will eventually wake up to this.

But I do think he makes some good points about the Syria situation, in the letter regardless.



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User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2446 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3504 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 17):
Is that so? How about treating us equally, then?

Signed,

The LGBT community of Russia

I get tired of this too. As long as the United States treated gays like 2nd class citizens, now because of this horrible Russian law, people come out of the woodwork to lambaste them. It's a little bit of cherry-picking richness.



oh boy!!!
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2873 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3480 times:

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 20):
It's a little bit of cherry-picking richness.

Yeah....   

Lots of countries appear to have issues with sexual equality, all over the world, including parts of Australian society.

Israel, Egypt one of Americas biggest donors recipients in the ME, grapples with this, as do many countries in Africa, yet the US is strangely silent over their plight?

If its so important to the US, then why wouldn't they make it a requirement of receiving ANY financial assistance ??

Hypocritical perhaps ???....

Just a bit !

http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/06/04/the-global-divide-on-homosexuality

[Edited 2013-09-12 23:16:18]


Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently onlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3766 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3432 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Thread starter):
we must not forget that God created us equal.

'Unless you want to challenge my political dominion. Then God have mercy on you'...
  



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6858 posts, RR: 75
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3418 times:

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 6):
A former head of the KGB certainly is not one to preach to the US about anything. They perfected hypocrisy to the highest degree.

So I guess the nobel peace prize to Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat should be revoked too then if we go by your logic...   

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 11):
Please provide a list of humanitarian deeds they have performed, such as starvation relief, earthquake relief, natural disasters etc.

There is a lot of Russian aid that goes without a nice massive stamp of the Russian flag on the bag, unlike the US. Humanitarian deeds for marketing is simply, PR... it's not charity. A lot of US humanitarian help also goes without the nice "FROM THE USA" symbology... but then, once we go to that level, there's no one to believe who gives out what.

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 12):
LOL the US who started a false war against Iraq because of George W. Bush's nonsense about regime change. The reasons changed as everyone realized it was initially BS. The world woke up.

The US needs to learn that at times, the US is used by the US' own enemies to make the US overthrow a regime, and then use the US' preach of democracy to install an anti-US faction... These guys no longer have to take airplanes and fly into buildings in the US, all they need to do is fabricate attacks or go on a social media campaign to make a regime look bad, get the mainstream media along, and before you know it, millions of Americans are duped, and these guys end up not only ending up with US attention, but receiving US help to get into power... and then... one day, the US gets a massive wake up call... (eg: Egypt, Libya, etc)... and then the reaction, plays into these guys... by then it's so much easier to play the "US is occupying" or "US is supporting tyrannical regimes" or "US don't like Middle Eastern democracy" card...

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 16):
If Assad goes, the safety of the chemical weapons cannot be ensured, and it is game over.

Israel, the US, Russia, the Arab League, and everyone else have a lot to worry about if Assad falls.

Personally, I do not believe Basher al-Assad himself ordered these chemical strikes. It seems to me more the work of a rogue general, or as some reports suggest, his brother Maher.

Isn't it perfect timing for Assad's rivals within his regime to start going 'rather wild' ?
I seriously think if the US takes action, then the US has been successfully duped.

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 16):
This Arab Spring notion, of the entrenched leaders being ruthless dictators, and the rebels being innocent saviors has gotten old. These rebels are often worse than the dictators...many of whom the US and EU supported over decades. Please, the holier than thou, "we're doing this in the interest of human rights," nonsense got old a decade ago with Iraq.

LOL! Nicely put.
Just look at Egypt... 12 years ago this date, who would have thought that the US would endorse the Muslim brotherhood? Iraq aside, the US got duped big time with Egypt this time... the "enemy" has gotten a lot smarter in the last 12 years... I guess the US has forgotten learnt from the Tet offensive... and the numerous ways the media spin can turn...

If the US gets duped with Syria, then the enemy have won!
I see this open letter as a reminder to the US... "remember, the world depends on us understanding what needs to be done in our spheres of influence..."



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4001 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3394 times:
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Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 4):
Well said. Mr. Putin goes by the rule of do as I say, not as I do. He is the epitome of Hypocrisy.

He may be the epitome of hypocrisy, but when we move to deny someone the right to express their opinion on a technicality, it doesn't say much for our supposed faith in free speech.

Either ignore him or address his criticism. Attacking him personally will win you no argument, and will certainly do nothing to enhance the freedom agenda you claim for the US.



I've got $h*t to do
25 pvjin : You know, the reason why US government has been and still is the number one hypocrite on this planet is all the BS about "defending freedom and democ
26 PhilBy : I would challenge that there was anything hypocritical about the KGB. They didn't exactly deny what they were all about. Indeed.
27 SmittyOne : Agreed. Once you go ad hominem you've lost the argument. This is a pretty accurate argument, but I find its tone a bit high handed when you consider
28 kaitak : I think Pellegrine has hit the nail on the head here; what has happened has been a master class in Machiavellian politics; he set a very clever trap;
29 SmittyOne : Indeed, and I think he (the President) also got set up by his political opponents who goaded him into proclamations of action and then did not suppor
30 gatorman96 : Putin is one hell of a politician. He has let the Obama administration "run the show" on the Syria situation, but he has always been in control. The m
31 tu204 : Who have we freed from tyranny in the last 100 years? Well...for start, lets say the whole world with our participation in World War 2, or atleast al
32 WarRI1 : Oh my! Australia, a country I have always admired, what has happened? Australia, the land of tough hard drinking men, the land of hard fighting soldi
33 RomeoBravo : I happen to agree with a lot he says. He of course has his own agenda though, and it's a pretty questionable character himself.
34 WarRI1 : A big claim there, the whole world. Not hardly, a contributor for sure, after the failure of the pact with Hitler forced the issue. I might remind so
35 WarRI1 : As we all do, and I certainly do not think he qualifies to preach to us. One has to wonder what did it take to become head of the KGB? I think he is
36 WarRI1 : We would all like to be loved, but that is impossible as we can see, the youngers should all read more history to see who has been their real friends
37 ltbewr : Putin has plenty of motivation to do a deal. He (like the USA and even Israel) would rather have the Assad family in control rather than a potentially
38 WarRI1 : When one has been shot down, imprisoned and tortured for seven years at the hands of the agents of the then USSR, he has a unique perspective that we
39 TheCommodore : Oh, its no illusion. If it was, do you really think the US would even bother to respond ? Well here it is again for you ....... [Edited 2013-09-13 19
40 WarRI1 : I did say the USSR, it was most certainly an illusion, held together by brute force, the secret police, and ruthlessness. the USSR is no more, destro
41 EA CO AS : I'm not affected by it, however I strongly dislike hypocrites and for Putin to take this holier-than-thou attitude and espousing equality while simul
42 seb146 : First you say: Then you say: Make up your mind. Can he have an opinion or not? And for United States and Israel. Let's not forget that if United State
43 Post contains links TheCommodore : You asked for a list Well, that will be balanced and fair....... McCain is a warmonger, one who falls asleep at congressional hearings, as his peers
44 WarRI1 : Freedom of the press will be alive and well for a little while, and that is a good thing in Russia and elsewhere.
45 seb146 : Is McCain really the best person to write a response? The leader of Russia writes his opinion in NYT and the best United States can do is McCain? I h
46 Mir : Where did I say he couldn't have an opinion? -Mir
47 Braybuddy : A very well-crafted PR piece, nothing more. Totally agree. Putin has added to the number of hoops western democracies tend to jump through. He himsel
48 tu204 : Yeah, thats called war. May I remind you that some of his countrymen simply massacered North Vietnamese and McCain was afterall bombing their country
49 Post contains links NAV20 : I think some people are being a bit hard on Putin. In my view he has done Obama an enormous favour by getting the President off the hook with regard t
50 pvjin : When we fought with the Soviets United States was actually aiding them with supplies to help them fight against Germans, obviously some of those supp
51 L410Turbolet : LOL! You should read up a little bit what the so called "liberation" was really all about ... but that means reading from other books than those they
52 RussianJet : Adjacent?? The closest parts of Russia to Syria are still a few countries away, but I guess the point is still relevant. It's not exactly right on th
53 Acheron : I'm always amused to read people who are ignorant of their own history such as yourself. The US were no better than the USSR when it came to messing
54 SmittyOne : Deleted Deleted Deleted[Edited 2013-09-14 15:19:49]
55 WarRI1 : He has done well, no question, so has every other Dictator in history, for a while. There is more to him than just words, and that is what got him th
56 WarRI1 : [quote=Acheron,reply=53]I'm always amused to read people who are ignorant of their own history such as yourself. The US were no better than the USSR w
57 RussianJet : Sure, but then many do - like the CIA for example. I get what you're saying, but that 'reputation' is largely one of the past.
58 WarRI1 : How can one tell, if it is all in the past? Do you think Putin does not have blood on his hands, even today with what is going on in Russia? I am not
59 tu204 : Sorry you think that. In reality (not on paper) you have less freedoms than I. But if thinking otherwise makes you feel better, then let it be.
60 WarRI1 : If you support your country, I salute you. I know I support mine. All I will say in defense of our system is that we do not fear our government. When
61 tu204 : You know what? I salute you too. It just seems that we can't understand each other's positon and I respect that. I do not fear my government. I voted
62 WarRI1 : I agree, we are different politically, but we are fellow travelers on this earth. I hope for the best for the Russian People and country as well as o
63 DeltaMD90 : The problem with this debate, IMO, is there really isn't any country, political party, or politician that is "clean." Anyone making a criticism can ju
64 Acheron : I see you are part of the "America! Fuck yeah!" group of delued people. You see, is not a matter of bodycounts but if you want numbers, the US has be
65 Post contains links GDB : This journalist, (not known for being a cheerleader for the US), neatly summarises that letter; http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...adimir-putin-am
66 AR385 : Which the US brought it upon themselves by placing those missiles in Turkey. Just thought I would refresh your memory. Salvador Allende in Chile in 1
67 GDB : So did the USSR, with all their bluster about 'turning out rockets like sausages'. With long range ones able to hit the US, it was BS - like just abo
68 AR385 : So? Thanks for helping me make my point.
69 windy95 : We do not fear our government? Who is we? Which is why we have the crap running our country that we have now. Yes we do. Everything has to be cleared
70 GDB : So? It wasn't only, as you seemed to indicate, a case of the US bringing the Cuba crisis 'on themselves'. While the Soviets felt threatened by the (o
71 WarRI1 : Dream on. American Politics, we thrive on it. Fook around too much with us, and you will see why we have been free for so long, and have saved so man
72 Post contains images WarRI1 : I have to say, that is amusing and sad at the same time. Your guy lost, deal with it. Obama was elected fairly and by popular vote. I am surprised th
73 Post contains images WarRI1 : I must commend you on a truthful, factual on the money post. Rarely have I seen a better one. Two thumbs up, make it three.
74 solarflyer22 : I thought it was well written but when I read it, I wasn't really focused on who it came from. I found it odd that every American afterward seemed ver
75 WarRI1 : I saw your agreement, I re-read the letter from Putin, you should be ashamed of yourself. Agreeing with Putin is bad enough, but to agree with Putin
76 WarRI1 : He shot himself during the uprising. I would assume he did not want to go on trial. Another casualty of the Cold War, of which there were many. The C
77 pvjin : No, blame United States for supporting the illegal military coup and a dictatorship that killed thousands of its own people. Had United States not in
78 Post contains links Brick : You all know that Putin didn't write this letter, right? http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/putinletter.asp
79 SmittyOne : Since you ignored it the last time I posted it, I will say this again: "This is a pretty accurate argument, but I find its tone a bit high handed whe
80 Pellegrine : Lol most politicians do not write their own speeches. You know that right? They have speechwriters, it is a job profession in political capitals. I'v
81 pvjin : Finland did what was needed to be done to survive and keep our independence. The fight United States started against Soviet Union and really any revo
82 wingman : To see Western Europeans compare the United States to the Soviet Union is truly remarkable. To see a Spaniard compare what his country did to Central
83 Post contains links TheCommodore : [ Another big difference is the fact that Finland as you say "did what was needed to be done" to survive, where as the US/West seems to think, it has
84 wingman : I think you understand my argument though. Putin is complicit in aiding and abetting what is likely to be classified as a crime against humanity. That
85 WarRI1 : Keep up the hopes that people will not see or understand your own countries behavior. I refer you to the replies below yours. They have said it far b
86 Post contains images Acheron : Hmmm, what was that american invention of the 19th Century called that had a few clues from the manual of the Conquistadores?. Oh yeah, "Manifest Des
87 windy95 : It should be argued more along the lines of what Europe as a whole did to the Americas. They all had their hand in the pot when it came to the exploi
88 DeltaMD90 : I think it is silly to criticize a modern country for the actions in the 1500s or so. There were terrible atrocities that no one can or does defend a
89 windy95 : Correct it is silly. I was just answering to the comparing of what happened in North Vs South America during that time. It was all bad and was done b
90 DeltaMD90 : I agree, and I wasn't calling you out. I was just tacking onto the overall discussion. Today's actions and near history is fair game IMO. What I hate
91 Acheron : Well, it is true that European powers are guilty of pillaging, plundering, massive genocides and general asshatery during the colonial stints, not on
92 Post contains images PhilBy : Don't forget that the asians and people of asian descent were just as good at it back in the good ole centuries. For some reason I find it very diffi
93 GDB : There you go again, such assumptions based on what? I think it's one of the great missed opportunities of modern times that Russia, under Putin, has
94 tu204 : I do agree that had we not had Yeltsin and company in the 90s we would not have had Putin in 2000. Now the west's role in this. The fact alone that r
95 TheCommodore : And that's exactly what I have witnessed on my travels to Russia. Despite the media/critics/west. I think most people as you say, see things getting
96 WarRI1 : There is no doubt that things are better for the Russians, the question is why is Putting following the old routine? I will make Russia better by Dem
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