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Capitol Police Ordered To Stand Down At Navy Yard  
User currently offlineJetsgo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3068 posts, RR: 5
Posted (7 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1056 times:

The board that oversees the U.S. Capitol Police has opened an investigation into whether a tactical team of officers that was one of the first on the scene during the Washington Navy Yard shooting was ordered to stand down.

Several sources confirmed the probe to Fox News. The investigation follows reports that a highly trained and specialized Capitol Police team arrived soon after the shooting started, but was told by a supervisor to leave the scene.

The BBC, which first reported on the allegation, quoted a Capitol Police "source" as claiming "lives may have been saved" if the team could have intervened.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...olice-unit-blocked-from-navy-yard/

A tactical response team from the force was told by a supervisor to leave the scene instead of aiding municipal officers, police sources told the BBC.

The Capitol Police sources suggest they could have saved lives had they been allowed to go in.

Aaron Alexis, 34, killed 12 people at the Washington Navy Yard.

In a statement on Wednesday, the US Capitol Police Board said the force's Chief Kim Dine had asked it to conduct "a comprehensive, independent review of the facts surrounding the Capitol Police's response to the Navy Yard shootings".

The Capitol Police Board said it had responded by establishing a "Fact Review Team", led by Michael Stenger, a former assistant director of the US Secret Service.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24155567

So here we have both Fox News and BBC reporting that Capitol Police were first on scene at the Navy Yard shooting and were ordered to stand down. Without having much knowledge surrounding law enforcement and chain of commands be it civilian, government, or military, I ask how could this happen? What supervisor could issue such an order and for what reason? Certainly hope there's more to the story here...


Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18704 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (7 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1037 times:

I predict Mr. Obama will be blamed by the GOP within the hour.  

That said, two news sources, one of which I consider reputable, are reporting it. It's either incompetence or malevolence and I'm hoping it's the former.


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8711 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (7 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1023 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
I predict Mr. Obama will be blamed by the GOP within the hour.

Keep dreaming.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
That said, two news sources, one of which I consider reputable, are reporting it.

And if it turns out to be true, would you say that Fox turns out to be better at news gathering than the (american) competition?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
It's either incompetence or malevolence and I'm hoping it's the former.

I'm sure it'll be the former.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7276 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (7 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1022 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
I predict Mr. Obama will be blamed by the GOP within the hour.  

Lol, only a matter of time.

And I also fear that this maybe-legitimate concern may turn into some crazy, off the wall conspiracy theory



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7006 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (7 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1022 times:

That's somewhat worrisome. Will be interesting to get more info on this. For tactile teams they usually get orders to go somewhere. I am a little bit skeptical that a tactical team could get together so quickly but it is the Capitol police. For all we know they are on stand by 24/7. Reports are police were there within 7mins which IMO is a very long time for sucha heavily policed area. Whether it was 7 mins to respond or 7 mins to go inside I am not sure. Given that an officer was shot it seems like MPD (D.C. police) did not wait for any tactical unit. Which was the right move IMO.


"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11133 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (7 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 997 times:

Per the BBC story:

A Capitol Police officer.....described a culture in which emergency responders are instructed not to extend themselves beyond the Capitol grounds for fear of being disciplined.

But, there will be hearings until blame can be laid at Obama.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8711 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (7 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 983 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 5):
But, there will be hearings until blame can be laid at Obama.

Funny how only Democrats talk of blaming Obama...



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5255 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (7 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 978 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
Funny how only Democrats talk of blaming Obama...

Hey, it was Republican's (well "conservative" blowhard commentators) that came up with the claim that President Obama didn't "sound" sad enough (or whatever, one guy claimed hey was "flat" and didn't care) when he made his statement on the shooting. It was beyond moronic and of course people now will pick on that.

As to why the CERT were turned back, the only reason I can think of that could be at least understandable is if there wasn't appropriate coordination/communication between the forces on duty. In general you always want the groups to be in communication or know where each team is.

Tugg

[Edited 2013-09-18 23:09:05]


I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3709 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (7 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 976 times:
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I'm only slightly exaggerating in writing there are three dozen various law enforcement / police with jurisdiction over parts of DC. It can't be that surprising that for one reason or another, an incident like this would happen, if only for fear of stepping out of bounds.

Do we really need a Capitol, Supreme Court, Transit, Park, panda eeerrr I mean Zoo police? Can't their functions be taken over by the Metro Police and/or the Secret Service?

Quoting Jetsgo (Thread starter):
What supervisor could issue such an order and for what reason?

If true, I can't imagine that whoever gave the order knew the severity of the situation. At the time, it might have seen less important than it was and "small" enough for the Capitol police to return within their usual boundaries and avoid being accused to step on someone's toes, like the Metropolitan Police or the Military Police or the Naval District Washington Police...



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineFr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5098 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (7 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 898 times:

Quoting Jetsgo (Thread starter):
Without having much knowledge surrounding law enforcement and chain of commands be it civilian, government, or military, I ask how could this happen?

This is a problem with overlapping jurisdictions. And, it's not limited to just police response. We had a little spat here a few years ago about fire response areas. Silly.

First units on scene, capable of doing the job need to do the job.

That's easy to say, but is it easy to implement? What about command and control? What about officers inside the perimeter? Do they have contact with the initial response units, in the case the Capitol team? Let me tell you...I'd be really wary of making an armed entry into an area where there may be more than one shooter and where there may be more LEO's or armed Security Forces without first ensuring I have the ability to communicate with those inside.

You think communications are easy, but they're not. We can look at my community. Two completely different and incompatible emergency services communications systems; 1 for the city, 1 for the county. Our city and county police merged in 2003 and units still have 2 different radios in them.

This is slowly being fixed and I think may be in its final phases of being fixed, but it illustrates the problem with multi-agency response.

We can sit here and second guess all day long, but it may have been the right decision. Let the investigation play out.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 8):
Do we really need a Capitol, Supreme Court, Transit, Park, panda eeerrr I mean Zoo police? Can't their functions be taken over by the Metro Police and/or the Secret Service?

Then you wouldn't have the jobs program that the federal government is. And, before you guys get your panties in a wad, I'm aware that most of the police forces existed in the pre-Obama era.

In other threads when talking about duplication of services (and the cost savings from consolidating and eliminating departments) I have always pointed to federal law enforcement. Just look at how many there are. I'm not even sure it's an exhaustive list.

[Edited 2013-09-19 10:36:47]


When seconds count...the police are minutes away. Never leave your cave without your club.
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5430 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (7 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 862 times:

Quoting Jetsgo (Thread starter):

The Capitol Police sources suggest they could have saved lives had they been allowed to go in.

Or they could have been victims of friendly fire, as initial reports suggested multiple shooters and there's no way for the Capitol Police to immediately communicate with other responding agencies.


Sounds more like this "source" has an axe to grind. But we will let the board do their job and investigate what actually happened, instead of having the news set up for another anti-whoever parade.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6114 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (7 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 823 times:

It's possible it was mishandled but it's also possible it was the right call, in an incident like this being there first is not enough, you must have ways to identify friends and foes (even more so on a military base !).

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 9):
Then you wouldn't have the jobs program that the federal government is.

I don't follow the logic, if it was a federal government program then you would have the FBI as the only civilian police.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineFr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5098 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (7 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 810 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 11):
I don't follow the logic, if it was a federal government program then you would have the FBI as the only civilian police.

The federal government has umpteen law enforcement arms. I suggest that number could be cut by a factor of 10, at least. And yes, that means that the FBI would shoulder a heavier load and have an increase in manpower to do so. but, in the final analysis, we would save so much money in training, equipment, personnel, retirement, etc.

Of course, I'm talking at the federal level...the various states and cities would still maintain there police forces.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 11):
It's possible it was mishandled but it's also possible it was the right call,

I think the wrong decision may have been made for the right reasons.

Let's let the investigators figure out what happened.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away. Never leave your cave without your club.
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8711 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (7 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 801 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 7):
Hey, it was Republican's (well "conservative" blowhard commentators) that came up with the claim that President Obama didn't "sound" sad enough (or whatever, one guy claimed hey was "flat" and didn't care) when he made his statement on the shooting. It was beyond moronic and of course people now will pick on that.

Oh, BS. They were upset because the first thing Obama thought to do after the event was to use it for political points.

To quote a CNN commentator that evening, "“I would not dare step in the way of America’s national pastime of bitching about the politics of everything on Twitter, but there has to be a better time for it than as the temperature of bodies on the ground in the Navy Yard are not even yet cold,”



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5255 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (7 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 790 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
Oh, BS. They were upset because the first thing Obama thought to do after the event was to use it for political points.

Absolutely BS! That is the dumb-ass problem with our nation right now. No matter what is done by the President he will be attacked by someone wanting to point out all that is wrong with him and the current administration. It is completely ridiculous. It is BS. Just deal with it, and move on. You don't have to attack on a statement, BS against BS is not needed or smart. There is no reason for it.

Oh, and is this the "CNN Commentator" you are taling about?

Quote:
Popular conservative blogger and former CNN commentator Erick Erickson admonished the rush to politicize the shooting, saying “seriously people, grow up.”

“I would not dare step in the way of America’s national pastime of bitching about the politics of everything on Twitter, but there has to be a better time for it than as the temperature of bodies on the ground in the Navy Yard are not even yet cold,” he said. “If you don’t have the judgment and good sense to understand that now is not the time to say it, you have no capacity to understand why.”

I assume you are using CNN to add credibility to your reasoning because they are more balanced in their approach or even some perceive them to have a "liberal" slant.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
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