Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
US Denies Airspace Access To Venezuela's President  
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1985 posts, RR: 2
Posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2315 times:

The President of Venezuela will be flying from Caracas to China this weekend, but according to news agencies like AFP the US government denied permission to the flight to use any US airspace.

Maduro will not delay his trip, so the Venezuela's government is exploring alternative flight plans.


http://news.yahoo.com/us-denies-madu...html;_ylt=A2KJ3CRviTtSbVoALCTQtDMD


Putting a side all the political sides of this, what are the alternative flight plans they can use??

( This will be a looooong journey for sure       )

Rgds.
G.


80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 2930 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2176 times:

"No one can deny airspace to a plane carrying a president on an international state visit. There is no valid argument to refuse airspace."

Actually, doesn't each country have full sovereignty over their airspace and can decide who to let through, regardless of any treaties? If what's quoted is the case, then why don't Arab counties allow Israel's president/prime minister to fly over their territory if en route to another country?



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2716 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2158 times:

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
so the Venezuela's government is exploring alternative flight plans.

Very very pettie indeed !

At this rate, the US Government might have to explore alternative flight plans next time Air force 1 needs to flyover Latin American countries. That should be interesting !!

What a waste of time on the US part.  



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21456 posts, RR: 60
Reply 3, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2136 times:

Why does the route need to cross US Airspace. It's a straight shot across Canada, the North Pole and on to Beijing. If there is an emergency, of course they could land in the USA. But if they need a fuel stop, why not Halifax or around there?


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8834 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2127 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 2):
Very very pettie indeed !



Remember Chavez, we do in the US.



At this rate, the US Government might have to explore alternative flight plans next time Air force 1 needs to flyover Latin American countries. That should be interesting !!



I think they may have thought about this, don't you.




What a waste of time on the US part.

How Judgmental of you. One would think you have a grudge against the US.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2965 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2125 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 2):
At this rate, the US Government might have to explore alternative flight plans next time Air force 1 needs to flyover Latin American countries. That should be interesting !!

Especially Bolivia, Morales may return a favor.
That event has to be one of the most embarrassing moments in the history of US diplomatic relations.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 2):
What a waste of time on the US part

Petty, is about the only credit you can give Obama. I guess this means Obama is going to try and prevent Maduro from attending any UN activities as well?

Okie


User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8834 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2120 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 5):
Petty, is about the only credit you can give Obama. I guess this means Obama is going to try and prevent Maduro from attending any UN activities as well?

You are letting your Anti-Obama bias lead you to supporting an enemy of your country. What kind of Conservative Super Patriot are you? Your values seem distorted by your dislike of our President.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2965 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2115 times:

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 6):
You are letting your Anti-Obama bias lead you to supporting an enemy of your country

I was unaware the US was at war with the countries of Central and South America.

Okie


User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2716 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2085 times:

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 4):
How Judgmental of you. One would think you have a grudge against the US.

No one is being judgmental.

The facts in the article speak for themselves !

Quoting okie (Reply 5):
That event has to be one of the most embarrassing moments in the history of US diplomatic relations.

Is seems rather so.

Quoting okie (Reply 5):
I guess this means Obama is going to try and prevent Maduro from attending any UN activities as well?

Especially when the US has just been carrying on about how ineffective the UN is, they want to try and stop members attending ?

Quoting okie (Reply 7):
I was unaware the US was at war with the countries of Central and South America.

Give them time .......   

What enemy....?

Why are you always looking at everything outside the US as being aggressive towards the US ?

[Edited 2013-09-19 19:33:35]


Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlinephotopilot From Canada, joined Jul 2002, 2702 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2072 times:

Good grief.... why is it that every time the USA gets on the world stage, they continue to embarrass themselves with such petty antics? Can you Americans not see that the whole world is basically laughing at you?

I hope the Venezuelans find an alternative routing, fly it, and simply ignore the laughable US decision.


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5167 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2048 times:

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 6):
You are letting your Anti-Obama bias lead you to supporting an enemy of your country. What kind of Conservative Super Patriot are you? Your values seem distorted by your dislike of our President.

When it comes to foreign policy I am a card carrying American Apologist, but this is indeed petty, and to be blunt laughably childish.

Venezuela does not pose a direct threat to the United States in any capacity. Any "dispute" relates to business interests which the last Administration blew out of proportion and the current Administration has done little to rectify.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 2930 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2043 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 10):
Venezuela does not pose a direct threat to the United States in any capacity.

You'd think so, except when it comes to black gold.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8834 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2045 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 7):
I was unaware the US was at war with the countries of Central and South America.

Did I use the word war? One can have an enemy without war, or combat. Take President Obama for instance.

[Edited 2013-09-19 20:18:55]


It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8834 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2037 times:

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 4):
One would think you have a grudge against the US.
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 8):
No one is being judgmental.

Fine, How about the grudge part?



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6471 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2028 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 1):
"No one can deny airspace to a plane carrying a president on an international state visit. There is no valid argument to refuse airspace."

Actually, doesn't each country have full sovereignty over their airspace and can decide who to let through, regardless of any treaties? If what's quoted is the case, then why don't Arab counties allow Israel's president/prime minister to fly over their territory if en route to another country?

You can deny airspace of course, but it's a diplomatic blunder for sure, which will not help improve relations, so better avoided. Last I checked Chavez and Ahmadinejad could attend UN meetings fine, even though they mostly insulted the US during their speeches.

As for Israel, I rather thought that Israeli airplanes avoided certain airspaces preventively, while banning some airlines from their own airspace.

[Edited 2013-09-19 21:01:45]


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8834 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2028 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 10):
When it comes to foreign policy I am a card carrying American Apologist, but this is indeed petty, and to be blunt laughably childish.




I appreciate your support on other issues.




Venezuela does not pose a direct threat to the United States in any capacity. Any "dispute" relates to business interests which the last Administration blew out of proportion and the current Administration has done little to rectify.

I cannot pretend to understand what brought about this decision, we do not know all for sure. Maybe the Snowden affair again.

[Edited 2013-09-19 20:29:40]


It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6094 posts, RR: 31
Reply 16, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2020 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

There must be alternatives. The route will be circuitious and delay his arrival by a few hours. But isn´t it a State plane? I suppose it has a big bed on it. Tough for the less important entourage though.

I agree it is a childish act by US diplomacy. Petty and serves nothing. I suppose it has to do with giving the Republicans something for the coming issues? Anyway, doing this type of thing to Venezuela might have no consequence, but then they do it to countries like Russia (remember Snowden) and the US ends up with egg on its face.

Then again it might, as almost half the population in Latina America is governed by democratically elected governments that are left leaning and more or less (at least in rethoric) embracing the "imperialist" "this is the 70s again" flag. Didn´t Dilma just cancelled a trip to the US? Sure, you may shrug off Bolivia but Brazil? Not even Nicaragua, as instability there can have bad consequences. for a whole region. Remember the Contras and that whole mess?

Maduro is not someone I like, nor would I like to be governed by such a mafia, but still, the US needs to look at the big picture and be practical.

[Edited 2013-09-19 20:37:56]

[Edited 2013-09-19 20:41:27]


MGGS
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3521 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1988 times:

I'm thinking we have not heard the whole story yet, but the knee-jerking is always interesting.

It appears he was already en route and denied entry in air. How does that work? Would they have filed a flight plan? Had it been pre-approved? Seems there are some questions that need answers before we hurt our chins.

Venezuelan Foreign Minister Elias Jaua told media that an aircraft carrying President Nicolas Maduro was denied travel over Puerto Rico’s airspace.

President Maduro’s flight, which was en route to China, was forced to find an alternate path according to Jaua, who denounced the act as “an act of aggression.”
http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/10036


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7787 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1979 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 16):
I suppose it has to do with giving the Republicans something for the coming issues?

Huh? What does this have to do with the Republicans? I'm confused by what you are saying



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6094 posts, RR: 31
Reply 19, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1967 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 18):
Huh? What does this have to do with the Republicans? I'm confused by what you are saying

I supposed in my very meager understanding of US politics that Obama has to be seen as tough as possible so as to limit the opposition he has on the coming negotiations in issues that are important for those who really give a crap about Maduro, who tend to be, most intense, Republicans.

I may be wrong. But I assume he cannot, at this point in time, be seen as soft on a country like Venezuela?



MGGS
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2716 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1947 times:

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 13):
Fine, How about the grudge part?

Did you read my reply to your question in (reply8) ?

Here it is again for you....

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 8):
No one is being judgmental.

The facts in the article speak for themselves !
Quoting Aesma (Reply 14):
As for Israel, I rather thought that Israeli airplanes avoided certain airspaces preventively, while banning some airlines from their own airspace.

Yeah well.... that's another one of those "hypocrisy" that Israel cowers behind.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 15):
I cannot pretend to understand what brought about this decision, we do not know all for sure.

Appears self evident to most of us here

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 15):
Maybe the Snowden affair again.

Wow, this guy really rustled some feathers in the state department for it to have such a reaction.

I think you give him way tooooo much credit, although I'm sure he happily take it from you .

[Edited 2013-09-19 21:47:42]


Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineMIAspotter From Spain, joined Nov 2001, 2724 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1867 times:

As far as I know, the US has not recognized Maduro as the legitimate president of Venezuela (neither do I) so is this the reason why?

(edit) I also remembered He usually flies a Cubana IL96 (Where´s the ACJ?) so maybe that´s another reason. He is flying on a Cuban registered airplane which I assume are banned in the US.

All in all, he put it upon himself.

As soon as he arrives into China, be ready to see a mouth foaming monkey with a microphone.

MIAspotter.

[Edited 2013-09-20 00:34:41]


I think, therefore I don´t fly Ryanair.
User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9089 posts, RR: 29
Reply 22, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1867 times:

Well, the guy is hostile to the USA whenever he can and the US just ignores him. Now he complains that the US ignores his request to overfly their territory.

Still haven't seen alternatives, what does he fly anyway? An Airbus corporate jet based on the 319? Or does he require a Conviasa A340 or what else?

They can fly around the US airspace flying outside along the west coast and refuel in YVR and then again avoiding US airspace. Adds a few hours but not much. If they cannot reach PEK non stop the comrades in Wladiwostok or Pyong Yang would be glad to help out.

As to the UN GA, the US has to allow them in according to the treaty they have with the UN. But he and his delegation are confined to a very small area of Manhattan which usually is their UN Embassy and the Un building itself.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6094 posts, RR: 31
Reply 23, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1861 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 22):
An Airbus corporate jet based on the 319? Or does he require a Conviasa A340 or what else?

They have the Airbus you mention. As far as I know the Conviasa plane is gone and is sitting somewhere without its engines.



MGGS
User currently offlineMIAspotter From Spain, joined Nov 2001, 2724 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (9 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1856 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 22):
Still haven't seen alternatives, what does he fly anyway? An Airbus corporate jet based on the 319? Or does he require a Conviasa A340 or what else?
Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 21):
He usually flies a Cubana IL96 (Where´s the ACJ?) so maybe that´s another reason. He is flying on a Cuban registered airplane which I assume are banned in the US.

There, I was editing my post when you posted yours, there´s the answer.

He flies the CU IL96, the Gov has an A319 ACJ but haven´t heard from it in a long while.

MIAspotter.



I think, therefore I don´t fly Ryanair.
25 PhilBy : As they don't recognise the state of Israel they don't accept the president/prime minister thereof as heads of state.
26 bennett123 : iirc, the A340 is sitting at Bordeaux.
27 PHX787 : I dont like Obama or Maduro....but this is quite interesting
28 Post contains images MIAspotter : Ohh now Mr Evo Morales is also angry. El gobierno boliviano alistará una demanda judicial internacional contra el presidente de Estados Unidos, Barac
29 PanHAM : I remember, but not sure, that, when Chavez died the ACJ was flow to France as well. May be the plane is so sacred that no other head of state is all
30 Post contains images RyanairGuru : Thankyou, when it comes to domestic politics I'm sure that we see eye-to-eye on many issues. That said, I'm prepared to call something as I see it, a
31 pvjin : As far as I know Cuban jetliners are allowed to overfly US airspace so I don't think that has anything to do with this, probably just another case of
32 tu204 : Well the IL96 has decent range. Anyone know if they reconfigure the cabin when it is used for government transport? Or is it still in the standard Cub
33 Pellegrine : So Puertorriqueño airspace was the issue. So looking at it, CCS-YHZ passes directly over PR, and CCS-PEK barely passes to the west according to the
34 PHX787 : Man what is with you? don't just spout abject nonsense like this. Anything that Morales spouts is just steam....I'd like to know how HE has improved
35 Post contains links photopilot : Sorry guys... you're wrong. Absolutely correct. Cubana has regular scheduled service to Canada from Cuba and I've flown them many times on direct rou
36 Post contains images MIAspotter : Exactly, and included in that is the whole Chavez/Maduro/Ortega/Correa mix of radical monkeys. Ohh I see, oh well, I stand corrected then didn´t kno
37 Post contains images einsteinboricua : That's different. The US is the host nation of the UN; ergo, the US MUST allow any diplomat going to the summits into their airspace. Indeed it does.
38 Post contains links FlyingSicilian : Where are you finding this story? It says even though they did the paperwork incorrectly he was granted overflight http://news.yahoo.com/us-denies-mad
39 daedaeg : So basically everyone's arguing over nothing. Moving right along.
40 Aesma : So they recognize Putin, military dictator types, but not him ?
41 francoflier : First four lines of the article: "The United States said Friday it has granted access to its airspace so Venezuela's president can make a weekend trip
42 Post contains images legacyins : I like this quote from Reuters: "Awaiting Maduro's arrival in Beijing, Venezuelan Petroleum Minister Rafael Ramirez took to Twitter to complain harshl
43 AR385 : Good. I´m glad Maduro and his government will to continue to look (among a few others) as the laughing stock of Latin America. It really seemed stran
44 Post contains images Gonzalo : So, the Venezuela's Gov didn't sent the overflight request on due time ( one day before while should be three days ), but they are waiting for an apol
45 RyanairGuru : That's good, if it was merely a bureaucratic and administrative misunderstanding then I retract what I said about calling the USA petty etc. /Kirchne
46 WarRI1 : I give you credit for that retraction, unfortunately most will not have the class to do so. It is plain to see the agenda of some, to just condemn th
47 L-188 : I suspect this was more of a case of Venzulea intentionally trying to spark a row with the US for internal consumption rater than an actual US snub.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
AA: "Welcome To Venezuela, Chavez Time Is.." posted Mon Dec 13 2010 05:15:48 by noelg
EBAY: I Cannot Get Access To Many Items - WHY? posted Wed Jun 30 2010 14:47:27 by todaReisinger
Driver Wrecks US Nuclear Sub Listening To IPod. posted Fri Apr 9 2010 23:09:12 by fxramper
US Army Says "goodbye" To Whoppers And DQ. posted Thu Mar 25 2010 10:32:45 by boeingfever777
US `Jihad Jane´ Linked To Murder Cartoonist posted Wed Mar 10 2010 00:32:27 by solnabo
Letter To The President About The TSA posted Mon Dec 28 2009 13:08:42 by DocLightning
US Talk Show Host To Sue United Kingdom posted Wed May 6 2009 03:39:42 by RussianJet
US Citizens Are Taking To The Streets! posted Mon Feb 9 2009 13:05:31 by MadameConcorde
US Unemployment Rate Up To 6.1% posted Fri Sep 5 2008 06:12:23 by Sv7887
Putin: US Behind Georgia Conflict to Benefit GOP posted Thu Aug 28 2008 09:58:34 by Diamond