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Brunei Announces Sharia Law  
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17786 posts, RR: 46
Posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2656 times:

I had no idea Brunei was anywhere close to this type of Islam. I assumed it was similar to the practices in Malaysia and Indonesia.

"The sultanate of Brunei has announced it will enforce a tough new Sharia law penal code.

The code - to apply only to Muslims - is expected to introduce death by stoning for adulterers and the severing of limbs for theft.

Brunei already adheres to a stronger form of Islamic law than neighbouring Malaysia and Indonesia, banning the sale and consumption of alcohol."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-24624166


E pur si muove -Galileo
19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9202 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2645 times:

How come Sharia law does not stop someone like the Sultan of Brunei from lavishing wealth on himself? He is probably a playboy also? The hypocrisy is amazing to me.


It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3312 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2621 times:

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 1):
How come Sharia law does not stop someone like the Sultan of Brunei from lavishing wealth on himself? He is probably a playboy also? The hypocrisy is amazing to me.

It's the "Do as I say, not as I do" principle.

He says it applies only to Muslims, but I'm willing to bet that non-Muslims (ie. minorities) would still be forced to accept Sharia or else.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6844 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2606 times:

Damn Obama !

Now that this is out of the way, I wasn't under the impression that Indonesia was "going the right way", rather some part of it started enforcing Sharia some years ago, people (even non Muslim tourists) must adhere to the dress code, etc.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9202 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2605 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 2):
It's the "Do as I say, not as I do" principle.

I cannot help but think, that is the guiding principle for all the leaders in most of the Muslim world.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlinetexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4284 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2589 times:

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 4):
Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 2):It's the "Do as I say, not as I do" principle.
I cannot help but think, that is the guiding principle for all the leaders in most of the Muslim world.

And it's not for leaders in other parts of the world? I don't think a leader's religion has much to do with a leader's desire to have people do as they are told and to not question why the leaders and people in the uper-echelon don't have to adhere to the same code.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9202 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2583 times:

Quoting texan (Reply 5):
And it's not for leaders in other parts of the world? I don't think a leader's religion has much to do with a leader's desire to have people do as they are told and to not question why the leaders and people in the uper-echelon don't have to adhere to the same code.

Texan

I understand your point. I point out the Muslim Leaders because most others do not cut off hands, and stone people to death for the most part. Especially when you are of that religion, and violate your own religious laws.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1699 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2546 times:

Sunni islam strikes again...

User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7859 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2493 times:

Quoting Acheron (Reply 7):
Sunni islam strikes again...

They have it in Shia as well, but it's not so strongly enforced in Iran. I know a few Iranian girls who look like Americans....act like Americans....no hijab or anything. And no one in their towns gives a damn.



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6957 posts, RR: 76
Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2470 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 2):
He says it applies only to Muslims, but I'm willing to bet that non-Muslims (ie. minorities) would still be forced to accept Sharia or else.

It would be like some of the states in Malaysia I guess... Muslims get Sharia, non-Muslims get laws that make more common sense. So if 2 guys on a motorbike steals, the mastermind of the two is a non-Muslim who steals for fun, and the accomplice is let's say, an unemployed Muslim... both get caught, the mastermind gets a prison sentence, the accomplice gets his hands chopped off... Makes sense... NOT...
Not sure if this was accepted under the Federal Constitution or not, but there was a major fuss in Malaysia over this at around the time of the 98 financial crisis... I think it was the state of Perlis that wanted to apply this.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 3):
I wasn't under the impression that Indonesia was "going the right way", rather some part of it started enforcing Sharia some years ago, people (even non Muslim tourists) must adhere to the dress code, etc.

Yeah, Aceh is a Shariah state under the autonomy peace deal that ended the civil war there, demanded by local political leaders... well, most of the people don't really want it, but were willing to accept some form of sharia... Unfortunately, this has now gone way overboard... like males aren't allowed to go around in shorts, female must wear the veil and not sit on the rear seat of a motorbike with legs spread... It's nuts... The number of middle class families that has moved to neighbouring province of Sumatra since the peace deal isn't small either... the anti-colonial Acehnese freedom fighters (including female commanders!) would turn in their graves if they see what's happening in Aceh now!

As for the rest of Indonesia, "sharia" and "thugs who want to enforce sharia" are largely an extortion scheme by politicians from most if not all sides (including non-muslim religion-based/affiliated parties)... sad!



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1699 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2469 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 8):
They have it in Shia as well, but it's not so strongly enforced in Iran. I know a few Iranian girls who look like Americans....act like Americans....no hijab or anything. And no one in their towns gives a damn.

They do, but they are a bit more moderate when it comes to their beliefs and seem more reasonable over all(as long as it doesn't involve Israel). Sunni's just want to kill anything isn't sunni and dream about their stupid global caliphate.


User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6957 posts, RR: 76
Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2437 times:

Quoting Acheron (Reply 10):
Sunni's just want to kill anything isn't sunni and dream about their stupid global caliphate.

I'm a Sunni, and I don't want a global caliphate... neither does most of the Sunnis I know...   But yes, there are those who do... may God forgive them for their delusions...



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7675 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2427 times:

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 1):
He is probably a playboy also?

His brother is he isn't. He's very much by the book, from what I understand.


User currently offlineDoona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3771 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2420 times:

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 6):
I point out the Muslim Leaders because most others do not cut off hands, and stone people to death for the most part.

I feel I need to point out that neither do most Muslim leaders. Muslims make up the majority of the population in 49 countries. Out of those 49, 11 (including Brunei) apply Sharia law fully, even though the use of for example stoning and amputations as punishment are not always enforced. In about half the remaining 38, Sharia law plays no role in the legal system, and in the rest Sharia is applied, but only in regard to personal status, i.e. marriage, divorce, child custody (which of course can be another cup of awful in my mind, but stoning and amputations are not involved, at least).

Cheers
Mats



Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
User currently offlineMillwallSean From Singapore, joined Apr 2008, 1283 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days ago) and read 2345 times:

The sultan is actually rather good as a ruler and does follow the book with his faith. Compared to almost every gulf ruler he is an angel that cares about all his citizens (including non muslims) and actually provides opportunities for rich and poor.
He has a huge ego like most rulers but he has made a difference for the citizens of the country.

The sultans brother on the other hand has been cut off from the family fortunes after he embellished X amount of millions and lived a playboy lifestyle (he loved the casino). A few other royalties does the same but doesn't run into enormous debts so the sultan leaves them to it.
The sultan himself spends a fortune on food, cars and vanity but he isn't a bad ruler, to the contrary I have only good to say about the man until the last two, years. I think he is scared of dying. he knows what intrigues he was part of during the malayan insurgence so no virgins for him. he also know the western powers know...
So now he is trying to be super good so that his bad decisions from 40 years ago will be compensated by allah.
This stupid decision about sharia will of course scare away more people and force him to pay even more to all expats that make the country run. (the country and the oil industry would stop and completely break down if the white/filippino/indian/Chinese people weren't in Brunei)

Lets put it this way though, the oil over there is a finite resource and they need to plan for the day it runs out. they aren't doing this so the sultan believes that by being really good muslims he will save Brunei.
The Bruneian people are extremely friendly, warm and hospitable, some of the nicest people I have met on this earth. but they are modern and educated these days (all thanks to the sultan)
Thus the educated ladies of Brunei wears g-strings, have affairs, drinks and dances in the bars of Sarawak. The sultan knows this all to well, he has good informers. Its not good for muslims and he at his age sees his people become more and more secularized and care less about religion. this is of course due to the fact that he gives them Asias best education but...

I guess with a population that has become more and more secular he needs to tighten the grip.
Wasnt long ago he ensured all shops etc had to close on Fridays when it was prayer time so that people actually would show up for the prayers instead of shop...
This is his legacy. Make Brunei a good muslim country and get some extra money from Saudi etc for it.

The Bruneians will continue to do what they always have when the sultan limits them. Travel to Sarawak (majority christian Sarawak) and shop, drink, dance and eat pork (thats for the natives and chinese only - havent seen any muslim eat this in Miri).
Thats the one thing western expats and Bruneians all do together, commute to Miri and Limbang as soon as the weekend comes. Rather cute.

My take on it.



No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7264 posts, RR: 57
Reply 15, posted (1 year 1 month 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2332 times:

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 14):
My take on it.

So basically, the world will not come to an end?



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1908 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 month 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2274 times:

Interesting news. I've been to Brunei a couple times (briefly), and you really don't get the feel of a typical "Muslim country" when you're going around, so I'm curious to see how strictly it's enforced. The only time I really noticed it was when I couldn't get a damn rum and coke on my Royal Brunei flights!

But overall I'm hesitant to criticize Brunei too harshly. The laws sound unsavoury, but the people there were nothing but friendly to me during my short stays and that's those are the memories I keep of that country.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 4):
I cannot help but think, that is the guiding principle for all the leaders in most of the Muslim world.

I don't know about "most", but looking at how all those Saudi princes act I could certainly understand why they would be labeled that way. The hypocrisy is startling in many cases.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 14):
I guess with a population that has become more and more secular he needs to tighten the grip.

I wouldn't necessarily say he "needs" to.



Flying refined.
User currently offlineAyostoLeon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 month 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2138 times:

Quoting Doona (Reply 13):

Thank you for pointing out that the way in which Shari'ah is able applied in different countries varies. All too often people assume that Shari'ah is fixed in stone, like the Ten Commandments. Yet we see that the body of law has evolved over time and is flexible.

At this stage the situation in Brunei is uncertain. The linked article refers to a code, allegedly seen by AFP but not shown or linked to, so it is not possible to say how the final code will compare. The linked article uses terms like "could" and "expected to" so the authors' conclusions are speculative.

Acheron, the average Sunni Muslim does not spend all day dreaming of how to kill anyone who is different, anymore than the average Spanish Catholic spends all day dreaming of reviving the crusades and the reconquista, despite the re-enactments of Moros y Cristianos. During my time in Libya, Morocco, Egypt, Jordan and the UAE I found that most people were concerned with more mundane issues like, jobs, housing, education, health, prices ... pretty much the same as people in other parts of the world.


User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2039 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (1 year 1 month 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2133 times:

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 14):
The sultan is actually rather good as a ruler and does follow the book with his faith. Compared to almost every gulf ruler he is an angel that cares about all his citizens

Yes, he must really care about his people. Hacking off limbs and stoning people to death is a good indicator of his benevolence.  
Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 14):
I guess with a population that has become more and more secular he needs to tighten the grip.

Makes perfect sense. Less Muslims will be inclined to drop Islam all together (assuming it's legal to do so).   



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9202 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (1 year 1 month 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2110 times:

Quoting Doona (Reply 13):
I feel I need to point out that neither do most Muslim leaders. Muslims make up the majority of the population in 49 countries. Out of those 49, 11 (including Brunei) apply Sharia law fully, even though the use of for example stoning and amputations as punishment are not always enforced. In about half the remaining 38, Sharia law plays no role in the legal system, and in the rest Sharia is applied, but only in regard to personal status, i.e. marriage, divorce, child custody (which of course can be another cup of awful in my mind, but stoning and amputations are not involved, at least).

Thanks for the information. I am not sure it will improve my feeling for Muslim Leaders and Sharia Law. It was informative, thanks.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
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