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AeroMexico To Caracas - Not Selling Seats  
User currently offlineLatinPlane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2696 posts, RR: 14
Posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4321 times:

Rumors are going around that certain international airlines, including AeroMexico, may be forced to cut CCS because they are not able to withdraw funds out of the country. The Venezuelan agency in charge of exchanging Bolivares into U.S. dollars owes AeroMexico a really big sum of money and this sum keeps getting larger by the day. It is also believed, but not confirmed, that the disagreement has resulted in retaliation by another Venezuelan government agency, which has prohibited AM from selling any seats to and from CCS until further notice.

The problem is not demand. AM is selling round trip tickets from MEX to CCS on economy for a whopping $3,000.00 USD. Notwithstanding, the load factors are hovering around 95% and many of the flights have been sold out or overbooked throughout the first part of January. To cope with the demand, the airline recently upgraded its daily 738 flight to a daily 762.

The problem is an economic one that stems with the Venezuelan economic model as a whole. The Venezuelan Bolivar keeps spiraling down and has become technically worthless as the fiat money of the country. The U.S. dollar is the money of choice to conduct all business transactions. Dollars are so hard to come by with tight controls that that people need to fly out of the country to withdraw dollars to bring back home where these imported $$$ get exchanged to the local currency out in the black market and a big lucrative profit is turned. As stated, AM is not the only one in this situation, most airlines serving the country are also facing such problems of doing business in Venezuela.

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 5946 posts, RR: 30
Reply 1, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4251 times:
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I´ve heard of that situation ocurring to many airlines with ops in CCS. Venezuela is headed for an economic meltdown the likes of which are very seldom seen.


MGGS
User currently offlineroseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9379 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4104 times:

The currency crisis in Venezuela is affecting airlines in many ways. Not just in getting paid, but also because so many people buy tickets so that they can exchange currency for dollars.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...ela-currency-idUSBRE9940BN20131005



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineandrefranca From Brazil, joined May 2011, 590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4022 times:

my grandma is flying to Venezuela this december she exchanged 2 thousand brazilian reais for 19 THOUSAND bolivars on the black market! one could even buy land with this amount I'd say.

User currently offlinedoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3381 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3800 times:

Sounds like those high loads and ticket prices have been propped up by the policies of same officials now refusing to release the money.

Quoting roseflyer (Reply 2):
Chavez introduced currency controls a decade ago and the disparity between the official price of 6.3 bolivars to the U.S. dollar and the illegal black market rate, which is nearly seven times higher, is wider than at any point since then.

There are strict limits on the availability of dollars at the official rate but with a valid airline ticket Venezuelans may exchange up to $3,000 at the government rate.

They profit from that using their credit cards in an arbitrage process known as "el raspao," or "the scrape." Either they use credit cards abroad to obtain a cash advance which they then carry home, or they send their cards to friends overseas who swipe the cards and send the cash back.
Quoting roseflyer (Reply 2):
But the government alleges that a silent "economic war" is being waged by rich opponents encouraged by the United States. Maduro expelled three American diplomats this week over the issue and has promised to "radicalize" government in response.



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2428 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3775 times:

A number of international airlines currently flying to Venezuela could get creative and try to use those Bolivares to buy something in Venezuela (catering, supplies..) but Venezuela is in such condition that whatever the airlines could get, wouldn't be really that easy to get hold of.


I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3613 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2945 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 5):

As you said, there is little hope any investment in that country will yield anything anytime soon. And even if it does, I'm afraid the despotic (and incompetent) government established by the late Chavez would simply forcibly take over any foreign owned possession before it all eventually hits the fan.

This will get worse before it gets better. I hope the Venezuelan people wake up from their populist Utopian dream before it turns into a nightmare.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently onlineAVENSAB727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 836 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2762 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 6):

I am sure the people already realized that, the last election was rigged.



Always look on the bright side of Life!
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5900 posts, RR: 40
Reply 8, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2555 times:

situation is getting really from bad to worse lately...

Quoting AR385 (Reply 1):
I´ve heard of that situation ocurring to many airlines with ops in CCS. Venezuela is headed for an economic meltdown the likes of which are very seldom seen.

well actually all airlines serving VE are affected. last figures I heard was that over 2.700 T MIO USD are pending to be expetirate by the airlines out of the country

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 3):
my grandma is flying to Venezuela this december she exchanged 2 thousand brazilian reais for 19 THOUSAND bolivars on the black market! one could even buy land with this amount I'd say.

thats actually a bad deal, current rate is around 60 for 1 USD... official 6.3... in december it might be near 80 or even higher... and no, you can not buy land for this amount... a 10 year second hand car is at arround 400.000 to 600.000 VEF these days.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 5):
A number of international airlines currently flying to Venezuela could get creative and try to use those Bolivares to buy something in Venezuela (catering, supplies..) but Venezuela is in such condition that whatever the airlines could get, wouldn't be really that easy to get hold of.

well, we are facing shortage on basic food / toiletry etc... just try to get sugar or toilet paper ...

Quoting LatinPlane (Thread starter):
The problem is not demand. AM is selling round trip tickets from MEX to CCS on economy for a whopping $3,000.00 USD. Notwithstanding, the load factors are hovering around 95% and many of the flights have been sold out or overbooked throughout the first part of January. To cope with the demand, the airline recently upgraded its daily 738 flight to a daily 762.

be sure that soon first carriers will cancle the service into VE.

hard times are ahead here in VE  



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2886 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (5 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2545 times:

Isn't this the same kind of issues that Airlines that fly to Zimbabwe face? I would expect as the world economy changes, we may see this issue with airlines in many different countries, very sad, but likely true.


Rule number One, NEVER underestimate the other guys greed
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 5946 posts, RR: 30
Reply 10, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1585 times:
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Quoting doug_Or (Reply 4):
Sounds like those high loads and ticket prices have been propped up by the policies of same officials now refusing to release the money.

That´s what happens when you introduce a fixed exchange rate that does not reflect actual currency value. Of course, Maduro has taken it to an extreme because he has no idea what to do. Maybe he can find some birds to talk to that might give him some inspiration.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 5):
A number of international airlines currently flying to Venezuela could get creative and try to use those Bolivares to buy something in Venezuela (catering, supplies..)

There´s nothing to buy really. Scarcity on average is at around 60%. What they could do is double cater the flights.

At this point, even people who were leaders alongside Chavez are questioning Maduro´s leadership. I don´t think he is going to last. Even the Cubans are tired of the guy.



MGGS
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2854 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1521 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 10):
At this point, even people who were leaders alongside Chavez are questioning Maduro´s leadership. I don´t think he is going to last. Even the Cubans are tired of the guy

I am afraid that the facts are that Chavez started the downward spiral. It appears that the momentum is accelerating to the point that Maduro can not even supply to the country with food, even with massive influx of petro dollars, because of the corruption and government take over of the food supply chain.

Okie


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6944 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1500 times:

This whole "Boliviarian" revolution by Chavez and his puppets is killing latin America. the US pretty much left them alone after the cold war, as many have wanted, sans drug war involvement, facing one of 2 options: A good democratic government will pull those countries out of the rut, orrr we get the communist/socialist regimes overrunning the place and turning it into mush.


What can be done though



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 5946 posts, RR: 30
Reply 13, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1481 times:
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Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
This whole "Boliviarian" revolution by Chavez and his puppets is killing latin America.

Please define what Latin America means to you, because 5 countries don´t make Latin America.



MGGS
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6944 posts, RR: 18
Reply 14, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1479 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 13):
Please define what Latin America means to you, because 5 countries don´t make Latin America.

For my technical reasons, "Latin" means romance languages, which would be spanish-speaking countries. IIRC Belize doesn't use Spanish regularly, so that is excluded...but I also overlap it with what is geographically defined as central america....from Mexico south.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineLatinPlane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2696 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1472 times:

TAM, Alitalia and AeroMexico have all stopped selling tickets to/from CCS.

Check their websites.


User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 5946 posts, RR: 30
Reply 16, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1468 times:
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Quoting PHX787 (Reply 14):
For my technical reasons, "Latin" means romance languages, which would be spanish-speaking countries. IIRC Belize doesn't use Spanish regularly, so that is excluded...but I also overlap it with what is geographically defined as central america....from Mexico south.

Well then. You are wrong in saying

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
This whole "Boliviarian" revolution by Chavez and his puppets is killing latin America.



MGGS
User currently offlineAA7295 From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 615 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1465 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 13):
Please define what Latin America means to you, because 5 countries don´t make Latin America.

Every country in South America, and every country in North America except the real America and Canada.


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 4711 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (5 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1455 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
A good democratic government will pull those countries out of the rut, orrr we get the communist/socialist regimes overrunning the place and turning it into mush

This isn't a political comment, rather a historical one:

Your last sentence should really read "get the communist/socialist regimes or authoritarian fascist regimes overrunning the place"



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6944 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1426 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 18):
Your last sentence should really read "get the communist/socialist regimes or authoritarian fascist regimes overrunning the place"

Any of the extremist political groups overrunning the place, committing massive acts of human rights atrocities, confiscating funds from people, suppressing the political opposition....it all just has to go. but what to do.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 4711 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1403 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 19):
Any of the extremist political groups overrunning the place, committing massive acts of human rights atrocities, confiscating funds from people, suppressing the political opposition....it all just has to go

Oh, I fully agree 100%. And I don't have the answers. I was merely pointing that Pinochet, for example, was no communist.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 5946 posts, RR: 30
Reply 21, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1386 times:
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Quoting PHX787 (Reply 19):
Any of the extremist political groups overrunning the place, committing massive acts of human rights atrocities, confiscating funds from people, suppressing the political opposition....it all just has to go. but what to do.

What country are you referring too? Then we could discuss what to do.



MGGS
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 3817 posts, RR: 28
Reply 22, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1379 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 20):

Oh, I fully agree 100%. And I don't have the answers. I was merely pointing that Pinochet, for example, was no communist.

We can debate all day long whether the price Chile paid was worth it or not, but the fact is that largely because of the reforms introduced during the Pinochet era Chile is currently, by far, the most developed and sustainable country in Latin America and could really teach most Western countries a thing or two about how to run an economy.

Now if you are talking about military dictatorships in Argentina and Brazil (and I am sure several other countries I can't think off the top of my head), then yes, the governments there ended up not being much different in terms of results than the communist regimes.



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineLatinPlane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2696 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1345 times:

I'm quite disappointed that the tread was switched over to the Non-Aviation Forum, because it was deemed "Political" when in fact, by switching it over to non-aviation it only made it purely political in nature. Can we get back to the topic now?

User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8876 posts, RR: 40
Reply 24, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1337 times:

At this point, all I can do is hope that the end is near so that Venezuelans can start rebuilding sooner rather than later.

I'd suggest adopting the dollar or Euro, or even better - give yourself and other citizens the right to use both and switch back and forth whenever you would like. Currency competition is the next best thing to figuring out monetary policy.



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5900 posts, RR: 40
Reply 25, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1372 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 24):
I'd suggest adopting the dollar or Euro

that would be the only way to get the situation under control... but I dont think that the goverment will do that... they are fighting till the "end"



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineMarcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1766 posts, RR: 2
Reply 26, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1364 times:

So if no one is selling seats on routes to Caracas, how long before foreign airlines stop flying there and hand over the market to Venezuelan airlines?


Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8876 posts, RR: 40
Reply 27, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1362 times:

Quoting Marcus (Reply 26):
So if no one is selling seats on routes to Caracas, how long before foreign airlines stop flying there and hand over the market to Venezuelan airlines?

And how long until this becomes a diplomatic imbroglio for Venezuela. . .



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2917 posts, RR: 1
Reply 28, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1331 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
This whole "Boliviarian" revolution by Chavez and his puppets is killing latin America.

I'll echo others in saying that this doesn't make much sense. First off, Latin America is hardly being killed off--and if it is, not entirely because of Chavez--and there have been many other authoritarian regimes in Latin America that have caused as much, if not more, harm as Chavez.



The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11572 posts, RR: 61
Reply 29, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1320 times:

Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 15):
TAM, Alitalia and AeroMexico have all stopped selling tickets to/from CCS.

Interesting, I have been looking at returns to CCS, Alitalia is one of the options coming up for February. Almost twice the price of when I looked a couple of years ago mind...


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4277 posts, RR: 12
Reply 30, posted (5 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1267 times:

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 17):
Every country in South America, and every country in North America except the real America and Canada.

No, that's not how it is.

Canada and the United States are part of Angloamerica, which includes places like Belize, Haiti, Jamaica, and many of the other islands. In turn that is part of the greater unit of Anglo nations, which includes the British Isles, Zimbabwe, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, and possibly India.



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5900 posts, RR: 40
Reply 31, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1117 times:

Quoting LatinPlane (Reply 15):
TAM, Alitalia and AeroMexico have all stopped selling tickets to/from CCS.

Check their websites.

checked with some sources, and the airlines will sell also in future tickets to/from CCS.
Only difference will be that for local paid ex CCS flights, they will open the reservation systems only upto 30 days in advance, and not like the normal norme of 360 (or something like that). AV already implemented this 2 months ago.

cheers
Avianca



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 3817 posts, RR: 28
Reply 32, posted (5 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1098 times:

Quoting Avianca (Reply 25):
they are fighting till the "end"

Unfortunately the situation will only get worse before it gets better. From a Portuguese newspaper (apologies, in Portuguese only)

http://www.dn.pt/inicio/globo/interi...seccao=EUA%20e%20Am%E9ricas&page=1

Venezuela launching a "National Operation Against Speculation and Hoarding", by which popular brigades trained by the National Organ for Popular Defense of the Economy and the Operational Strategic Command (seriously, George Orwell could not come up with this) will scour every warehouse in the country to "eliminate at the source the parasitical capitalism". Not sure if the fumes of Chavez's formaldehyde are finally getting to his tiny little brain, but there is no way this could possibly end well.



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
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