737doctor From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1332 posts, RR: 41 Posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1034 times:
I have been silent on the Israel v. Palestine threads because they always seem to deteriorate into "flame wars". I offer this link as an interesting slant on what drives a person to commit such an act. Let it be known that I do not condone such behavior. I just wanted to share this article with the forum since it is a topic about which many here hold passionate opinions.
Go Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 11 Reply 1, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1012 times:
Having read the article, first i must praise the individual concerned in realising that terror actions solve nothing. I then have to condemm any person who sees her as a 'coward' because she wont kill innocent civilains.
Suicide bombers seem to be open to mupilation by terror groups, an innocent civilain, upset regarding an event is pounched upon and brainwashed into believing all israelis are leigitimate targets, israel is a facist, racist, nazi state and that all israelis must die.
Any one of those arguements false and brainwash poor, peaceful people.
People driven to suicide bombings are desperate, desperate because they have been told that there is no other option or answer.
Hopefully this article will lead to even more palestinains rejecting terror and will make people think.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
737doctor From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1332 posts, RR: 41 Reply 7, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 958 times:
Suicide bombers seem to be open to mupilation by terror groups
suicidebomber=illiterate+no hope+incitement by religous zealot who corrupts a religion
Here is the point in the article that I find most interesting:
A support system exists in most societies to help people with such feelings of helplessness and desperation. Obviously no such system exists in their culture. But then why would their leaders want one? They can use these people to help accomplish their strategic objectives. Very sad.
Leftypilot79 From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 455 posts, RR: 6 Reply 8, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 951 times:
I know this is off topic.....but that is the EXACT REASON why school shootings happen too. Hoplesness, its all to common amongst singled out teenagers who get picked on. I worked on a high school campus....and all I can say is it doesn't surprise me in the least. This I v P is just the Popular kids v outcasts.
Bravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 12 Reply 9, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 945 times:
You look into accepting or rejecting the suicide attacks. The thing to understand is that there land is occupied and they have no help. They have been living peacefully for so long untill the Jews started settling there, on their land, throwing them out. This has been going on for long enough for the oppressed to say "Enough!". If you guys say that there is nothing that can justify the suicide attacks, let me tell you there is nothing that can justify things like "The law of abandoned property" or even Israel itself. So when there are two unjustifiable things you need to address the first. You say palestinians are voilent, you should also know that Israel has never accepted any UN resolutions. If you say that Palestinians are voilating, then why is Israel not accepting the Palestinian proposal of UN observers. If you say that Israel is not commiting the voilence, then what happened in the Jenin refugee camp? No ne knows, well it is Israel that prevented the world from knowing it. First of all one should think WHY is a refugee camp there in the first place?? BECAUSE ISRAEL HAS THEIR HOMES OCCUPIED. I wish you had seen the video footage taken by (i think) a french journalist (who too was shot at), in which Israeli army while facing a demonstrating started shooting a father and his son who were going back from the school and had nothing to do with the demostration (although demonstration isn't a crime). They weren't even in that street. they 5-6 year old kid was killed instantly while his father recieved perhaps 6 shots and was in a critical situation. Things like these happen every day there. This was on of the rare proofs that surfaced and the international media like the CNN,BBC etc never gave the attention it deserved. I can write books on it. And if you search the historical facts of this part of the world for last couple of centuries, it becomes clear that they settled their feet very slowly for this time.
And I am not sure as the media doesnot reports correctly, there was a similar case of a womon suicide bombing, at which the media reported, that she was studying at a university and was about to get her degree when she got brainwashed. What was not told that in a recent Israeli military incusion, her entire family with the family of his fiance including him, despite innocent were killed. She was saved as she wasn't there. Now you say that here act afterwards was unjustifyable. I say your overview of the situation too is unjustifyable.
Bravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 12 Reply 10, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 941 times:
With all this going on. Some of the victim's relatives decide to take revenge, some try to get on with their life. No one there calls anyone coward, except the media that calls the suicide bombers as cowards. Thats what I think. Don't trust the international media. If you cable provides Arabic channels, some of them (I don't know which) show a lot of footage by hidden cameras and as I too don't know arabic, but those pictures describe it all without having to know what is being said.
Bravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 12 Reply 12, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 936 times:
And what OTHER action? Israel does not accept UN resolutions. Doesn't let people even get out of their homes when ever it wants too. Can go after anyone and kill him with out any explaination and there is no one to stop it.
Go to the link to read for youself Sharron's words "Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial":
Reminding you that this person is a WAR CRIMES CRIMINAL and now a days he is the Prim Minister of the country called Israel.
Bravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 12 Reply 14, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 919 times:
What I am saying is that there is only one side to this picture and the other is the made up one, made by twisting the facts that are out there but are forced not to get through to the majority. I am not justifying the suicide attacks, what I am saying is that you should view the situation with all the facts considered. Like the ones above. And here with it let me tell you another of the "fine quotes" of Americas's "Man of peace", that he said to his cabinet(I think) while diciding a military campaign against the unarmed civilian population. Thses may not be the exact words as I don't remember it now and unfortunately I don't have the link. Anyway he said "You guys tell me that American is going to do this or that, well let me tell you one thing, We control America and they know it".
Bravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 12 Reply 18, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 905 times:
I say you answer my points stated above. Put religion aside. God forbids it happen to anyone, but for a moment put youself into that place, you native land is under occupation, occupied by people cmming from all parts of the world claiming that it is there. ON WHAT BASIS??? Now you are living in a refugee camp and its long enough for a new genration to rise, never have taken a breath of free air. And even your refugee camps are being restricted to rubble by military bulldozers about which you have to be on your guard as they give no warning to anyone to go out while bringing it down. Reason??? Your have lost half of your family and those racist ba***** are not being questioned by any one. The only activity going around is the increase of the settlments and occupation. When someone looses his nerve and has had enough, goes secretly into the land he is "forbidden" to go and blow himself up along with a couple occupying his land. A lot of others follow the example finding no other way to resist. And yes!! by the way, there is unemployment and poverty everywhere.You cannot even get out of your house because its a curfew, you cannot come back to your house because the military has juat ordered so to ensure your "safety" so that they can pin point and kill the ones they want to kill.
Again, no justification of the bombings, but give me any justification of all the rest and if there is none then if you have a little honesty, use it and tell me should the one unjustifyable stop first that started first or the one that started as a reaction to the first one?????????????
Saintsman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 2065 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 900 times:
Remember that this thread is not about the justification of suicide bombing.
Whilst everyone, I'm sure, would agree that people have a right to defend or protect their interests I don't think that suicide bombings achieve any practical purpose. Someone driven to take such drastic action would be able to achieve more of their aims if they were still alive, even if it is just killing others.
Bravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 12 Reply 20, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 898 times:
Well in all the posts above I have explained the psycology of the suicide bombing, the only other thing I said was that I dont justyfy it and its that only thing ypou brought up. Read the rest and tell me what would you do when you are going to die by an Israeli shell, or you decide to kill a few of them while dying. Its doesn't achieve any purpose, I disagree. I am sure that in the same situation of being unarmed as for so long they have been oppressed, it was only until they started these desperate moved that the world took notice of them. Remember the topic, they hadn't started it we wouldn't be discussing it. Believe me it makes a difference. Not just the suicide bombing, but the knowing of the true facts.So do atleats in your heart and everywhere possible condemn the act that is to be condemed. If there wern't so many igonarant people supporting Israel, I am sure the world would have been a safer place not just for palestinians but also the jews.
Avi From Israel, joined Sep 2001, 933 posts, RR: 6 Reply 21, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 896 times:
There are so many things that you twist and many other things you ignore that I can’t reply to your posts (I don’t have time or force).
I just want to remind you that the suicide attacks against Israel started when Israel started to withdraw from the Gaza Strip and the West Bank so there was no reason for the PA to be desperate, on the contrary, and this is the problem. The PA authority that took the responsibility on the PA people did nothing at all to improve the PA lives! (Do you want to talk about desperation now?)
Do you want to talk about how did the PA live on September 2000 when the vast majority of them lived under the PA authority control and not Israeli occupation and THEY started the Intifada?
Bravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 12 Reply 22, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 894 times:
The only answer to your question lies in the answer to this question:
WHYYYYY does Israel not accept the presence of ANY international peace keeping force or EVEN IF NOT THAT (Although there is no reason for that)THERE IS NO ONE GOOD REASON FOR THE DEPLOYMENT OF UNITED NATIONS OBSERVERS.WHY????????????????Only because Israel's HORRIFIC GENOCIDE WILL BE UNCOVERED.That is why Israel pressurise its life time ally USA to VITO any such resolution. The palestinians have always said they are in the favour of them. Not even jounalists are allowed move freely. WHY?????????????????????
Avi From Israel, joined Sep 2001, 933 posts, RR: 6 Reply 24, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 892 times:
WHYYYYY does Israel not accept the presence of ANY international peace keeping force or EVEN IF NOT THAT (Although there is no reason for that)THERE IS NO ONE GOOD REASON FOR THE DEPLOYMENT OF UNITED NATIONS OBSERVERS.
Tell me, what will international (armed) forces do? Will they prevented from PA suicide bombers to enter Israel? I don’t think so. I don’t think they risk themselves (and why should them? Do you want your country’s soldiers to die here?).
Will they prevent from Israel to defend it self? You bet! And then what do you think will happen?
And by the way, there is kind of international force in Hebron but they don’t have authority. They can’t say anything to anyone. They aren’t arm and few months ago 2 of them were killed by PA!
WHY????????????????Only because Israel's HORRIFIC GENOCIDE WILL BE UNCOVERED
Are you out of your mind????????????????
In Jenin (the suicide capital), for example, there was a heavy fight and still only 2 civilians were killed (All the others were armed). If you look into military history you won’t find anything like it. We enter the camp on foot because we didn’t want to bomb the camp from the air and finish the story fast (and many Israeli soldiers were killed because of that)
The USA will never do that. They only will bomb from the air. They will protect their soldiers (and they should be).
Israel has nothing to hide. UN and other humanity organizations personals are in the GS and WB all the time and see what happen. You heard about "massacre" in Jenin when the PA said that but I guess you didn’t hear that there was no such thing when the truth came out.
And I say it one more time for you, Israel started to withdraw from the GS and WB and the PA blew the process up!
Long live the B747
25 ADG: horrific genocide....no...even human rights groups say that a massacre didnt happen at jenin. well, that's not technically accurate considering they w
26 Ryanb741: Not a good idea TWAmerican! A little hardline perhaps! Just give em back all their land, and then if the attacks still continue, there is justificatio
27 Go Canada!: "horrific genocide....no...even human rights groups say that a massacre didnt happen at jenin. well, that's not technically accurate considering they
28 TWAmerican: TWAmerican you are a idiot. Use your real name TWANEEDSNOHELP. Thats not nice! If you "think" you know whose who, what does it matter to you then!
29 EWRvirgin: But the religious types from all sides would have you believe that heaven is much nicer than earth. If earth is hell wouldn't it make sense to head to
30 David B.: Why is he a hate monger? Because he doesn't support israel? I dont like Israeli policy that makes me a anti-semite? If so then be it.
31 EWRvirgin: David, Re-read my post to answer your own questions.
32 Go Canada!: no, if you critise israeli goverment policy for being too excessive and violent then you arent anti-semitic.