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Should We Stop The 'War On Drugs'?  
User currently offlineJessman From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1506 posts, RR: 7
Posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2596 times:

This is inspired by the "Teens: Pot easier to get than cigaretts or beer" thread. The war on drugs is obviously not working. Drugs are just as easy to get as anything else on the free market. Pot is a plant; Jimson weed is a plant; opium comes from a plant, extacy is easily made with legal chemicals. With several drugs they are essentially trying to make a plant illegal, but the plant is going to grow anyway.

To compound that no program is going to make someone not want to get high. People in general want to get high, jail or no jail.

Finally programs like Dare are not working as they wanted them to because the kids go home to their parents who are toking up.

I don't do drugs, drugs are not a smart idea, IMHO. I also don't smoke and I don't drink alcohol, however I don't feel there is a need to limit people's ability to drink or smoke. Prohibition failed miserably, and I think it's time to make the war on drugs go the way of prohibition. Tax the heck out of them, set age limits, whatever; but don't send people to jail to suck tax dollars and become harder criminals. What do you all think?

50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39861 posts, RR: 74
Reply 1, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2537 times:

I agree with you about this.
The so-called 'War On Drugs' tramples over the 4th Amendment and has over-crowed prisons with non-violent people. Prisons have become modern day plantations. Look at those incarcerated now. Most are ancestors of slaves.
The prison lobby is a powerful and growing organization that has tremendous amount of influence on state legislatures nationwide. Prison labor has replaced many jobs here in the U.S.
They make furniture, school supplies and many other products.
This is another example of how governments control and take away it's own peoples civil liberties.
This whole 'war on drugs' is just something to scare people and harden people’s attitudes to elect politicians who want to facilitate this evil policy.

What's in it for the government to have a drug-free society any way?
Absolutely nothing!
There is no money to be made in peaceful and law-abiding society.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineJessman From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1506 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2523 times:

Yes Superfly;
I forgot all about the race issue, but it is true. I believe the fact that laws against crack cocaine are more stringent than laws against powder cocaine is huge evidence of racism on the institutional level in the United States of America. Most folks know full well that crack, the cheaper of the two, is known as an inner city and therefore black drug, whereas powder cocaine is more expensive and is often used by celebrities and suburban folks, who are overwhelmingly white. As well as the fact that the police really only target the drug dealers in the inner city who generally happen to be black, but they usually turn the other way as the suburban white folk drive back to their homes to get high in relative peace. The only real exception to this is when the bust the suburban growers whose basements are almost glowing from the heat lamps and such, but there are so few of them that it's not really fair anyway.

With race in the picture this is not only a trampling of the 4th amendment, but a de-facto trampling of the 13th; 14th and 15th amendments.

By the way, I've been agreeing with you more often lately, Superfly. Maybe I should check my blood sugar  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39861 posts, RR: 74
Reply 3, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2517 times:

Jessmen:
Maybe I should check my blood sugar

Funny, very funny!  Laugh out loud

I am glad others see this as a problem. I didn't even think about the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendment.
Good observation.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineDripstick From Canada, joined Dec 2001, 2364 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2516 times:

No, I don't think we should stop the war on drugs. The fact remains some people will progress from pot to needles and crack and associated crimes to support their habit. The easier you make the access to these drugs to these week people, the more problems you'll see and have to fund...



Sometimes it seems futile, but I think it's a good fight.



What's another word for thesaurus?
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39861 posts, RR: 74
Reply 5, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2510 times:

Dripstick:
What ever happened to individual responsibility?
Is someone is stupid enough to sniff there brains out to oblivion, go right ahead and do it away from everyone else.
There are plenty of people that want to get ahead and succeed in life.
I see no need for this paranoid state to rid the world of drugs.

Maybe if you were stopped by police, handcuffed, held up for an hour and had your car completely searched because the police had a 'suspicion'  Yeah sure that you may had drugs in your car, then I am sure you will see this argument in a different light.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2506 times:

What ever happened to individual responsibility?
Is someone is stupid enough to sniff there brains out to oblivion, go right ahead and do it away from everyone else.


Individuals have shown and proven that as a whole, they have no responsibility. And before you say let them rot their brain (which I would agree with), its when there F-ups start affecting other people, that something needs to be done.


User currently offlineDripstick From Canada, joined Dec 2001, 2364 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2504 times:

Like I said, the WEEK people are the ones that we all end up being affected by. Both, by having to foot the bill when they need help, and when we're victims of their crimes.

I'm talking about people who progress from pot. Some do, most don't.



What's another word for thesaurus?
User currently offlineJessman From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1506 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2499 times:

Superfly, I'm a white boy and I got my pickup truck searched. I know what you're talking about on that hassle. To give you a little background I was driving at about 1AM home from work on a deserted interstate and I wasn't exactly paying so much attention to my driving. The cop said I was "weaving". I didn't think so, but I was tired. My pickup was about 10 years old, leaked fluids, and generally smelled funny; so my girlfriend burned some incence to make the smell a little better. So here I am and the cop wants to search my truck, so he does. I just have to stand around and wait. Thankfully I wasn't handcuffed, but this was still not a pleasant experience.

User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39861 posts, RR: 74
Reply 9, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2497 times:

If a crack addict robs a store to feed there habit, there are laws already on the books to deal with this.

It's called burglary.
No need to attact a different name to the crime.

Also drug treatment for those who want it is much cheaper than incarceration.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineDripstick From Canada, joined Dec 2001, 2364 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2497 times:






What's another word for thesaurus?
User currently offlineDripstick From Canada, joined Dec 2001, 2364 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2494 times:

Crimes involving drug addicts are almost always violent.

Do you want your sister shot dead in a car-jacking by some wacko high on the juice?



What's another word for thesaurus?
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39861 posts, RR: 74
Reply 12, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2488 times:

Dripstick:
Do you want your sister shot dead in a car-jacking by some wacko high on the juice?


Of course not!
I am still trying to figure out how this ties in to the war on drugs policy.
The war on drugs in an un-winable war.
If there was treatment programs, they wouldn't need to resort to violent measures to get a fix.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2488 times:

Superfly, I'm a white boy and I got my pickup truck searched. I know what you're talking about on that hassle.

Hassle maybe, but if you have nothing to worry about, then it should not be a big deal.


User currently offlineJessman From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1506 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2482 times:

Dripstick and KROC; the problem is that those who want to rot their brain are going to rot their brain legal or not.

We end up footing the bill double when the drugs are illegal because those that can't hold a job are on welfare anyway and when they get caught they go to jail where we pay for their room and food. And they often still get drugs in jail!

For better or worse we sit idle when celebrities go in and out of rehab, most of them don't see a day in jail. If it's ok for them how can we tell anyone it's not OK.

Finally you admit that the vast majority of pot smokers don't go on to harder drugs. Nicotene is a Drug. Alcohol is a DRUG. Now that they are legal they are HARDER for children to get access to. The reason? they're expensive. You don't see local farmer brown selling contraband cigars from his tobacco patch, why? because it benefiets farmer brown to sell his tobacco to a reputable dealer. The same thing would happen with pot. Heck, the same thing would happen with coke. Why not have the government slap a fat tax on these products and bring in some revenue instead of spending so much time and money catching, prosecuting, and incarcerating those that use them.


User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2480 times:

The war on drugs may be unwinable, but with no effort to curtail drugs in the first place, society would be over run by them, because people for the most part have shown how irresponsible they can be.

User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2476 times:

Jessman. Cocaine is highly addicting. Slap all the taxes you want on it, and the recreational user will most likely turn into a daily user doing whatever it takes to get that hit.

User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39861 posts, RR: 74
Reply 17, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2474 times:

KROC:
Hassle maybe, but if you have nothing to worry about, then it should not be a big deal.

What if your in a rush and have a flight to catch?
Any way you look at it, it's still a huge unnecessary inconvience.
I assume this has never happened to you.



Jessman:
You also raise another good point about tobacco and alcohal.

Other addictive drugs are being marketed LEAGALLY on TV as if it's a candy of some sort. I am talking about Paxil, Prilosec and other LEGAL mind-altering drugs that have tremendous negative side-effects.
This stuff is way more dangerous and addictive than pot.
Also Prosac, Ritalin (sp) are other over-perscribed drugs than many people (especially women) rush out and buy. These are the same people would totally scoff or turn there nose up at someone that occasionally smokes a joint.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39861 posts, RR: 74
Reply 18, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2470 times:

KROC:
The war on drugs may be unwinable, but with no effort to curtail drugs in the first place, society would be over run by them, because people for the most part have shown how irresponsible they can be.


Thanks for backing up my point.  Smile
although I don't think it was intentional on your part


TREATMENT is what's needed.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2469 times:

I assume this has never happened to you.

You know what happens when you ASSume Superfly. Actually it has happened to me. Most notably late at night in South Central L.A. A White Boy rollin' in the hood...must be looking for drugs. Cops fucked with me for an hour, but I understood why.


User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2467 times:

Other addictive drugs are being marketed LEAGALLY on TV as if it's a candy of some sort. I am talking about Paxil, Prilosec and other LEGAL mind-altering drugs that have tremendous negative side-effects.

LMAO. Whatever. Last time I checked, I just couldn't get Paxil on the corner (easily), and I needed a prescription to get it. Also, drugs like that are for people with a certain need. let me guess Superfly...you have cataracs?


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39861 posts, RR: 74
Reply 21, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2467 times:

KROC:
Actually I have 20/20 vision.

Also you totally missed my point.

I'll be back later when I get in from work.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineJessman From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1506 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2464 times:

Whatever. Last time I checked, I just couldn't get Paxil on the corner (easily), and I needed a prescription to get it
Actually I can go to the local dealers and put in an order for about any prescription drug you can think of; Oxy-Contin, Paxil; Ritalin, whatever you want. It's fairly easy to get these drugs because you just have to get the right contacts, people with that prescription will sell you their pills, that's how Oxy-Contin got huge, and when the law cracked down the hooked turned to heroin. Nice.
If you don't know someone with the prescription you can steal a doctor's prescription pad, or just print your own. Or even easier you can make the pharmicist an offer he can't refuse. Harder things are done every day.

Point being, it's not hard.


User currently offlineLearpilot From United States of America, joined May 2001, 814 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2456 times:

What if your in a rush and have a flight to catch?
Any way you look at it, it's still a huge unnecessary inconvience.
I assume this has never happened to you.

You should have left earlier.

I hate to jump in the middle of an argument, but here it goes. If you are upset that the police are suspicious, maybe you should take that up with the people who give them reason to be suspicious. If it's an inconvenience to be looked at by the authorities, you need to separate yourself from that environment. If you don't want to go somewhere else, then you need to do something to clean up said area. Don't blame the police for inconveniencing you if you're willing to let other people run down your area.

If I fit a profile of someone the police are suspicious about, let them search me. I've got nothing to hide. If you're not hiding anything, you shouldn't be concerned either. If they think they need to continuously stop and search, me, then common sense says that I probably shouldn't go there any more.

There's no way they should legalize drugs or discontinue the war on drugs. I'm not ready to be mugged by some welfare idiot who doesn't have enough money to buy his own fix. If they legalize drugs, that's exactly what we'll have. You know, since it's always everyone else's fault. I can hear the court case now: "It wasn't my fault. If drugs weren't so easy to get I wouldn't have turned into a junkie, and I wouldn't have had to rob and kill that guy to support my habit. Society turned me this way. It wasn't my fault."




Heed our warnings or your future will be underpant free!
User currently offlineJessman From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1506 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2446 times:

Don't blame the police for inconveniencing you if you're willing to let other people run down your area.

If I fit a profile of someone the police are suspicious about, let them search me. I've got nothing to hide. If you're not hiding anything, you shouldn't be concerned either.


You're thinking in terms of a perfect world, we don't live in a perfect world. Most police officers are honest citizens. Some are not. There have been cases where police officers have planted evidence. Actually some police officers will justify this action in their minds. In their minds you have done something wrong. Just because they can't prove it there doesn't mean you should go free in their mind, so oh, what's this, a bag of coke under the seat...You're under arrest for possesion with the intent to distribute. As sad as it is, things happen. Then the jury you're assigned decides that if the cop took the time to arrest you, you must be guilty. Worse things have happened. When I was pulled over the cop told me "I think it smells like you have been smoking marijuana." In hindsight that could have been interpreted as a threat.


25 Leftypilot79 : Ok...it seems the Netherlands has made it work right? Can anyone explain how it works there? Im not super familiar with it. Some hard drugs shouldn't
26 Post contains images Superfly : Learpilot: What on earth are you talking about? If it's an inconvenience to be looked at by the authorities, you need to separate yourself from that e
27 Hepkat : While still in the U.S. I shared many of your views, that drug use should remain illegal and offenders carted off to jail for a long time. Since livin
28 AerLingus : Jessman, I agree that evidence planting is a very real threat. Some police officers pull over people and plant evidence just for the sake of making th
29 GD727 : We cannot stop the War On Drugs. Yes, they are fairly easy to get these days, but we must have control over them. We don't have complete control over
30 RogueTrader : The drug laws should be relaxed. The war is unwinnable and, even worse, it gives the police state more power to do things in the name of fighting drug
31 Hepkat : Drugs cause crime and violence, so if we let go of the amount of control we have now, crime would skyrocket! GD727, what are you saying? Do you have r
32 Us330 : I discussed this idea with my parents after watching John Stossel's (For those of you who do not know, Stossel is probably the #3 guy on 20/20) specia
33 Post contains images OzarkD9S : Look how far we've come: The War On Poverty - is that still on? The War On Drugs - if I was so inclined I could pick up a phone now and have a nice se
34 Mbmbos : "The fact remains some people will progress from pot to needles and crack and associated crimes to support their habit..." Is that a fact? I don't thi
35 GDB : Prohibition gave you the Mafia, so lessons haven't been learned, though I'll admit it's a difficult subject. I never saw them, but I've heard that it'
36 Post contains images Lehpron : YES, YES, Legalize it all! All the drugs and alcohols and porno -- everything. Seriously, studies of children who have there candy rations severely re
37 GD727 : Hepkat: Decriminalizing drugs causes the demand to disappear, which immediately dissipates any violence associated with it. How do you know demand wil
38 ExitRow : Prisons in the US are overcrowded. One way of alleviating the problem is to stop incarcerating petty pot smokers and pot dealers on "Three Strikes" la
39 Post contains images Jessman : Europe is completley different from the US, what works there does not necissarily work here. Not really; people are people no matter where you go. Hum
40 Hepkat : How do you know demand will disapear? Because most people start drugs because they're not allowed to. When I started college, I and other freshmen dra
41 Post contains links ExitRow : There are already laws against disorderly conduct, public intoxication, theft, murder, driving under the influence of mind altering substances, distur
42 Jessman : That article made me want to make a new thread on a different subject. I think I will.
43 KAL_LM : Just to inject my 2 cents worth... The War on Drugs has proven itself to be more a war on people. It has led to the massive militarism of police force
44 Boeing4ever : Food for thought: Alcohol was relegalized with the fall of prohibition. Drunk Driving is one of the leading causes of death for drivers. B4e-Forever N
45 Jessman : Drunk driving has been a problem since before the automobile. People still drove drunk during prohibition with bathtub gin or bootleg whiskey. My grea
46 Boeing4ever : The point is, Alcohol causes problems. From drunk driving, to violence. Allowing drugs that make you hyper-aggressive would be just as bad. Taxes alre
47 Jessman : So would you be an advocate of reinstating prohibition?
48 AMRAAM : The war on drugs is a complete joke I don't care what anyone says! This so called war....... we've been getting our ass kicked from the very beginning
49 STT757 : Lets clear a big myth, Prisons are not full of Pot smokers or minor Marajuana dealers, possesion of Marajuana is not a fealony but a mis-demeanor. Whe
50 Boeing4ever : So would you be an advocate of reinstating prohibition? No. While alcohol causes problems, it can be enjoyed responsibly. The same can't be said for C
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