Smolt From Japan, joined Nov 1999, 271 posts, RR: 0 Posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 979 times:
Historically evaluated visit to North Korea was done by Japanese PM Koizumi on 17. In the meeting the leader Kim Jon Il admitted their kidnapping 11 Japanese citizen which have been suspected for this 30 years. Some including just-marriaged couple were kidnapped in the Japanese seashore and some in the European cities. Among them only 4 people are now alive and the rest 7 were dead.
The cause of the death in detail are not yet to be cleared. (Some speculates kill by shot, some deceases)
One of the dead was in charge of teaching the Japanese language and behavior to the Korean bomb criminal for Korean Air B707 in 1987.
This kidnapping matter was assumed to be an obstacle to progress any kind of
Japanese aid (rice and fund aid, yen loaning) to North Korea, which may stabilize North Korean economy and result in Asian peace.
But in me something is unclear, now that tragedy is proved in front of us; should Japan accuse distinctively North Korea for its "regime criminal"? Where sadness of the relatives go? Do they have to give up their innocent daughters and brothers, thinking it was the destiny?
Does anyone experienced same kind of this in your country ? If yes, what did your nation do?
Pacificjourney From New Zealand, joined Jul 2001, 2699 posts, RR: 8 Reply 3, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 923 times:
I can't believe they actually admitted to the kidnappings. The question is where to go from here ?
Japan has always insisted this issue stood in the way of normalisation of relation with DPRK and now they have what they want (I assume the return of 4 remaining kidnapees) how do they react ?
Gut reactions of death to KJI aside DPRK must either be genuine about opening themselves up or really desperate for more aid. Past experience must point to the latter case but progress is progress no matter how distasteful it may be.
I had my doubts that Kozumi was doing the right thing in going to DPRK at this time but it seems to have paid of. Sad news but good news at the same time.
Swissgabe From Switzerland, joined Jan 2000, 5266 posts, RR: 35 Reply 4, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 889 times:
What's wrong about a nation preferring to talk iso of bombing and killing civilians etc.? It's a great step which Japan has done. The relation between North Korea (and South Korea) hasn't been good since WWII due to well known reasons. A Japanese PM visiting Korea should bring him respect.
The only thing that happened when our World cowboy No.1 put DPRK on his nice terrorist list was, that all PEACE talks and this family program between North and South stopped.
DPRK has nothing to do with terrorism and as I stated in other discussions inside here the only way to open and "help" the DPRK is to bring down their regime with opening the Embargo and a bigger Western influence.
With blocking the DPRK with Embargos etc. 22 millions suffer due to no food and no first aid possibilities, the government hasn't been affected and with an embargo the government of the DPRK will only get stronger and the people suffer. Koizumi knows at least where to find the DPRK on the World Map, I wonder if Bush does...
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 20 Reply 5, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 889 times:
DPRK has a very long history of supporting terrorists and their host countries...
They also have a very long history of agression towards their neighbours.
DPRK has had Japan under threat of attack with weapons of mass destruction ever since they launched a missile over Japan that destructed over the Pacific later one. Officially this was a failed attempt at testing a satelite launcher, but everyone knows it was really a show of force. A rocket that can launch a satelite into earth orbit can also drop a nuke on a country nearby, and launching the rocket on a rather shallow trajectory overflying Japan was designed as a strong message.
Ever since Japan has been extremely reluctant in dealings with the ROK, and it is generally believed they would deny basing rights to UN forces now in case DPRK attacks ROK because of the nuclear/chemical threat hanging over them.
DPRK might be talking now with the ROK, but remember Nazi Germany was talking with the UK and France while they were massing their troops on the Polish and French borders preparing for the war those talks were officially meant to prevent.
Swissgabe From Switzerland, joined Jan 2000, 5266 posts, RR: 35 Reply 6, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 866 times:
Do you have kind of paranoia? The DPRK has less mass destruction weapons than the USA, they don't have any nukes (compared to USA) and they killed less civilians than the USA so what's the problem.
You said: DPRK has a very long history of supporting terrorists and their host countries...
I say that the LAST matter that could be seen as a terrorist attack was when a few North Koreans bombed the KAL 707 and if I'm not mistaken this was already 20 years ago. If I'm wrong let me know.
And just to mention, if an American kills another one we are not going to talk of terrorism, then I'm pretty sure they are going to call it a murder or what ever, but not a terrorist.
Do you really think that you found the right solution saying just to put an Embargo on them and to bring down (or as Twaneedsnohelp said to kill them) is a nice solution? Iso of trying out new weapons and let civilians suffering it would rather be better to try out other ways as Japan's PM tries. This would help all people involved.
Remember, there are always better solutions than WAR, not only in the DPRK.
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
Pacificjourney From New Zealand, joined Jul 2001, 2699 posts, RR: 8 Reply 8, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 845 times:
No, that was a religious sect called the Aum Shinriku, a large group which is alive and actively persecuted in Japan itself. 3 members have so far been sentenced to death for that and for the murder of a lawyer and hios family 5 years ago.
DPRK does harbour 4 members of the JRA, known as the Red Army Faction but they are all pensioners now who have asked to return home to die.
DPRK isn't disneyland but supporters of terrorism, I don't think so.
Smolt From Japan, joined Nov 1999, 271 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 827 times:
Limitedly speaking, in the relationship between Japan and North Korea, I feel something wrong with calling North Korea to be a terrorist Nation. Generally terror means what is done for political requirement or insist, and terrorists often declare the crime they have committed by themselves. In the North Korean's kidnapping case, they have long denied their involvement and have not affected Japanese policy.
They had practical necessity to have those kidnapped train their people to behave as Japanese or to speak Japanese. (Oh but surely the ultimate goal is to make use of the trainee getting terror happen in south Korea or other country in Asia and in the middle east...)
To be honest despite all the doubt I have hardly believed that one Nation like DPRK himself should commit crime as kidnapping. China, USSR and other countries have acknowleged its sovereignty. It must be a normal Nation.
I believed that as long as I am in the western courtry I can not avoid information we can access have certain bias towards the west, centered to US, in which bias the East countrie reflects something unfamiliar and strange. (And this is true to the East coutries; the west coutries reflect something unfamiliar and strange)
Thus I thought such doubt was out of such a bias.
But oh, they have committed. what a shock!
BH346, as Pacificjourney points out the sarin case was Aum Shinrikyo's crime.
(In that morning if I had left my house 30 minutes before I might be killed in the accident)
For a.net interest, JRA members hijacked JAL 727-100 in 1969 and forced the flight proceed to North Korea, where they became "refugee".