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Riyadh 'to Fingerprint US Visitors'  
User currently offlineRonen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2478 times:

Who wants to visit them is another story.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2310273.stm

73 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2447 times:

You can't blame them for that!

And who want to visit them Ronen?
How about a couple million muslim from countrys all over the world (including US) during the Hadj?



SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
User currently offlineBravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2445 times:

If the US has ANY right to finger print the Arabs even Pakistanis and anyone else comming to their country, every other country has the same right and NO ONE should be pissed about anyone else using that right, WHEATHER SOMEOE WANTS TO GO THERE OR NOT. BTW I think a lot of Americans go to Saudia Arabia.

User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2441 times:

Let them fingerprint Americans-it's their right. I mean, after all, our citizens are blowing up their buildings and hijacking their planes all the time, so I can see the need to do it, you know.

User currently offlineBravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2443 times:

Alpha1 and others,
The Muslim world is facing prejudiced ALL over the western world. The people living in the Muslim countries feel all this more than you can imajine. You can say that the American civilians are no threat to them, but what threat is there to America from millions of Muslims living there, going and comming from there, only 19 men who are dead now cannot be the justification of all the humiliation that is being done. Let finger printing be a normal procedure and Muslims wouldn't feel it either.


User currently offlinePacificjourney From New Zealand, joined Jul 2001, 2731 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2421 times:

Almost all immigration rights and proceedures are reciprocal, you do it to us so we do it to you. It was only a matter of time and americans really haven't a leg to stand on complaining about this.


" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
User currently offlineRonen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2421 times:


I don't have any problem with what they are doing . I think that fingerprinting

is not justified in any case and if I can continue what Manni had said most of

the fingerprint taking will be of American Arabs.





User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2417 times:

This is ridiculous. How dare they take an attitude like that with US citizens when they rely on the US to pretty much exist. I think the time is right for a regime change in Saudi Arabia if they continue with this attitude. The United States has been nothing but a friend to Saudi Arabia and this is how they retaliate? What an ungrateful country.

User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2202 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2415 times:

American computers connected by American cables in a room with probably an American airconditioner being used by pissed off spoiled sheiks to keep track of American fingerprints  Laugh out loud


India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2414 times:

Sean, that was classic! ROTFL

User currently offlinePacificjourney From New Zealand, joined Jul 2001, 2731 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2398 times:

Time to rake up the profiling debate now the shoe is on the other foot. Sucks doesn't it ?


" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2380 times:

Time to rake up the profiling debate now the shoe is on the other foot. Sucks doesn't it ?

Slight difference. When was the last time an American went to Saudi Arabia to set off bombs or crash airliners, hmmm?

This is just vindictiveness, but not surprising coming from them.

Charles


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2370 times:

It doesn't suck, Pacificjourney, because when you're not guilty of anything, it shouldn't bother you. The fact that the Saudi's get all pissed when they're screened or what is laughable, after 19 of their citizens pulled off that act of war a year ago.

I could care less if they want to be petty and fingerprint me if I go there.


User currently offlinePacificjourney From New Zealand, joined Jul 2001, 2731 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2376 times:

The Saudi's believe they have a reason for these measures as does the US and thats what counts. Protests to the US government do no good so tit for tat is the next step. If the Saudis response is vindictiveness then how do we describe the US's, knee-jerk, paranoia, racist perhaps ?

You didn't honestly think you could treat all nationals of a particular nation like common criminals without this kind of thing happening did you ?

How does it feel, not good right ?



" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2366 times:

B747-437B,

Great friend! Treating Saoudis like convicts before they're allowed to get in.
Your comment made me laugh for a couple moments, until I realised that you might be serious, I felt a pity for you. How on earth could you be upset about the fact that Americans visiting Saoudi Arabie must fingerprint because Saoudis must do so when visting the US. Sounds very logic IMO.

Ronen,

Perhaps, they'll let American muslims trough without fingerprinting.  Big grin Wouldn't surprise me at all.



SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
User currently offlineDavid b. From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3148 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2364 times:

This is ridiculous. How dare they take an attitude like that with US citizens when they rely on the US to pretty much exist. I think the time is right for a regime change in Saudi Arabia if they continue with this attitude. The United States has been nothing but a friend to Saudi Arabia and this is how they retaliate? What an ungrateful country.

Now I understand why people hate us so much................Glad most Americans don't have that altitude.



Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
User currently offlinePacificjourney From New Zealand, joined Jul 2001, 2731 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2357 times:

So easy to say it wouldn't bother you Alpha1 since you won't be going but take it from one who has been finger-printed for immigration both in Japan and the US and it isn't nice.

Don't give us that shit about the guilty having nothing to hide either. What about the right to privacy, innocent until proven otherwise and other legal niceties. How long before they also use those fingerprints for other purposes ? Paranoid perhaps but I would rather they didn't start Big Brother experiments with me.



" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
User currently offlinePacificjourney From New Zealand, joined Jul 2001, 2731 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2352 times:

Oops !

That should read ' the INNOCENT having nothing to hide'.

Freudian slip anyone ?



" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2343 times:

The Muslim world is facing prejudiced ALL over the western world. The people living in the Muslim countries feel all this more than you can imajine.

Good!

Because they are it, baby. They are the best line of defense against the types of people who have PUT THEM in the position of facing prejudice all over the world.

When sane, reasonable Muslims...and as an American I'll volunteer the idea that that's most of them.....the world over decide enough is enough, that this extremist zealotry on their fringes is giving them two black eyes and a sore groin in the eyes of the rest of the world, they will be able to stop the al Qaedas and the bin Ladens and the Omars and the al Aqsa Martyrs faster, better, more efficiently then all the Western forces put together.

As to the fingerprinting, I was trying to come up with an appropriate opinion when I read through the posts and saw BarfBag's. Yeah! That!


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 19, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2351 times:

Hi Pacificjourney,

That reminds me about something.
When I got mugged in Japan last July (by foreigners), I made a declaration at the police station (Roppongi, Tokyo). After they had everything written down on a paper I had to fingerprint it. It did feel weird indeed.




SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2324 times:

Go ahead let them fingerprint US citizens. If this childish ploy makes them feel better about themselves and what some of their fellow countrymen have done thats their hangup.

It doen't bother me, I have no plans to go to the Middle East, and don't WANT to go to the Middle East. I find the "Tit for Tat" very amusing. Instead of a SERIOUS attempt to find and control terrorists and terrorism Saudi Arabia resorts to fingerprinting Americans.

However, if it works and they find some terrorists who are American citizens, after all John Walker Lindh is an American, then Kudos to Saudi Arabia.


User currently offlineRai From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2315 times:

I think the nature of their policy is innane and immature, but think about it. If every country adopted a fingerprinting policy, the world would probably be a safer place. I'm for equal discrimination.  Big grin

User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2301 times:

Typical Saudi peevishness.
They'd be better off loosening control over the nasty society they've helped create.

But as usual we will continue to let the Saudis do whatever they like, from forcing American service women to wear the hijab to coddling and exporting Islamic fundamentalism. If it weren't for 9-11 we'd still be kissing their Royal Arab heinies and singing their praises.

Frankly, I don't know what the big deal is about being finger printed as you enter the US. Even the demeaning aspect of it can be avoided if you provide your fingerprints as you present your passport and Immigration forms to the INS officer at the booth. Currently prior issued visas (which are pretty hard to obtain) are required of those visitors from countries that are major sources of immigrants (India, South Korea, China, Russia, etc), while most visitors from First World nations (the EU, Japan etc) can get one automatically stamped as they enter. Is this discriminatory? Perhaps, but its also based in a sound policy rationale.


User currently offlineBravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2287 times:

This is ridiculous. How dare they take an attitude like that with US citizens when they rely on the US to pretty much exist.
So you see why its important?? Other than the matters of security, the Americans should know that they are nothing as super humans or that no one else is anything less than a human and that all are same. Its CANNOT be that fingerprinting of Muslims comming to the US cannot be held in terms of humiliation when you say things like these when someone fingerprints an American.
As for Alpha1's comment that Saudis should be fingerprinted because of the actions of their 19 people, you can't even blame all Saudis for this let alone all Muslims and that the US is fingerprinting NOT ONLY Saudia Arabian people but of other countries as well ALL MUSLIM including Pakistan which is called as their ally when they need it.

If every country adopted a fingerprinting policy, the world would probably be a safer place.
Thats what I said. It should have been done by the US. I mean I never mind taking measures ensuring security but discriminaton is something I can't stand. So it should have been the US that should have said to the entire world to start fingerprinting each other when the forst words of criticism were spoken against the fingerprinting of the US. THAT might have been the ONLY fair case.


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2288 times:

Even the demeaning aspect of it can be avoided if you provide your fingerprints as you present your passport and Immigration forms to the INS officer at the booth.

Unfortunately the system does not work quite as simple as that. All passengers required to be fingerprinted are taken to detention cells in the "hard secondary" zone where they are held in custody with the immigration violators. The wait for an officer to conduct the fingerprinting (based on personal experience at TOR PFI) usually is between 2-3 hours, followed by an additional 2-3 hours to "process" the prints and approve/deny entry to the US.

The INS does not have a clue about how to treat foreign nationals arriving on legitimate business. Their idea of "determining intent" for visitors sometimes involves locking them in a cell and physically abusing them until they sign false "confession statements". Compared to that, the Saudis are being positively benign.


25 Bravo45 : The INS does not have a clue about how to treat foreign nationals arriving on legitimate business. Their idea of "determining intent" for visitors som
26 Heavymetal : It must be true Bravo, you read it on the Internet.
27 Jaysit : B747-437B: You're right about the fact that the INS often treat legitimate visitors like they are thugs. I guess I should have stated explicitly that
28 OO-AOG : Normal reaction after obvious US discrimination for Muslim's/middle-east travellers. I don't blame the US for that, it's probably improving their own
29 LH423 : It doesn't suck, Pacificjourney, because when you're not guilty of anything, it shouldn't bother you Exactly! In my job, I have to deal with having to
30 B747-437B : Bravo - I can assure you that it is true, having suffered through that process myself. Email me if you would like more details. Jaysit - Go down to JF
31 KaiTakFan : Can someone who is more familiar with the entrance procedures for Americans into Saudi Arabia expand on it a bit more. I was under the impression that
32 Post contains links B747-437B : Americans can visit Saudi Arabia for personal reasons, business reasons, religious reasons, transit or employment. All of these require different pape
33 Twaneedsnohelp : Jaysit - Go down to JFK one of these days when the Saudia flight has arrived and ask random passengers about their immigration experiences. Holy Chris
34 Rai : Russ: maybe we can go for a beer then? I'm thinking of checking out JFK as well. I'll also ask a few people I know who work there if this is true.
35 Post contains images Tbar220 : I think the nature of their policy is innane and immature, but think about it. If every country adopted a fingerprinting policy, the world would proba
36 Post contains images Marco : Manni, why don't you do us all a favor and go to Saudi Arabia? Anyway this is ridiculous, considering Saudi wouldn't exist today if it wasn't for the
37 Marcus : I wouldn't be surprised if Saudi Arabia turned to be the Iran of the next decade with a Sha/Ayatollah (sp?) scenario.
38 David b. : Bush loves oil. SA has lots of oil. Oil=good WMD=bad If we can do it, why cant SA? Are Americans super-human?
39 B747-437B : Want to come up to the city next week and help me?? I'd love to Russ, but unfortunately I'd rather not subject myself to another round of being kicked
40 Airmale : List of Muslim countries whose nationals (males only) will have to be registered, photographed and fingerprinted (computerised and not with ink): Sout
41 Post contains images Manni : Marco, Sure no problem, atleast they wouldn't ask me my fingerprints. BTW, They've got internet aswell in Saoudi Arabia.
42 Bravo45 : So Muslims from these countries going to the US would be HELD FOR TENS OF HOURS IN LOCKUPS, BE HUMILIATED PHYSICALLY AND THE WORST THAT ONE CAN IMAGIN
43 Post contains images Marco : Sure no problem, atleast they wouldn't ask me my fingerprints. BTW, They've got internet aswell in Saoudi Arabia. By the way three quarters of web sit
44 Alpha 1 : If the Saudis response is vindictiveness then how do we describe the US's, knee-jerk, paranoia, racist perhaps ? KNEE-JERK? 3000 dead, buildings and p
45 Jaysit : Well, it may not be a knee jerk reaction by the US, but the execution of these policies leave much to be desired especially by a superpower that needs
46 Pacificjourney : Yes knee-jerk, the appearance of copmbating the problem rather than actually combating the problem. Precisely how would the taking of fingerprints pre
47 Alpha 1 : Pacificjourney, your remarks sway me not at all. You can call me any idiotic names you want, but it doesn't change my opinion one iota. And so sorry i
48 Docpepz : So are all citizens of the above 15 'terrorist risk' countries subject to photographing and finger printing on arrival in the USA or is all done at th
49 Pacificjourney : Alpha1 Did not expect for a moment to shift someone of your entrenched nature but before getting on your high-horse about name calling (BTW you think
50 Alpha 1 : Why is The Philippines not on the list? Heaps of terrorists have been found there. Probably because that government is actively engaged in military ba
51 Docpepz : Malaysia is also very actively engaged in rounding up SCORES of terrorists. They have been one of Washington's strongest allies in South East Asia. Ye
52 Post contains images B747-437B : For god's sake terrorists were found in Singapore too. Terrorists were also found in Lackawanna, NY
53 Cedarjet : If I've got a Syrian visa and three Lebanese visas in my Australian passport (and I'm caucasian, British resident), would I be fingerprinted by the IN
54 ADG : it's amusing to see Americans complain about this treatment, try being of arabic appearance and going through the airports in America. Ok if you enjoy
55 Marco : ADG, Have you even been to America? My parents (caucasian Christians) were searched while headscarved women weren't in CHICAGO O'HARE. I'm not complai
56 Post contains images David B. : Have you even been to America? My parents (caucasian Christians) were searched while headscarved women weren't in CHICAGO O'HARE. I'm not complaining,
57 LOT767-300ER : "Why is The Philippines not on the list? Heaps of terrorists have been found there. Probably because that government is actively engaged in military b
58 Bravo45 : NO!!!!!! YOU TELL ME IS THIS (what is said is the previous posts) IS WHAT IS BEING DONE TO ALL PEOPLE COMMING TO THE US FROM THESE COUNTRIES?????????
59 Marco : Bravo45, Stop using caps, it's annoying. These people are entering the country, albeit with heightened security, but that's not necessarily discrimina
60 LOT767-300ER : " IS WHAT IS BEING DONE TO ALL PEOPLE COMMING TO THE US FROM THESE COUNTRIES?????????" I fail to see your point....are you suggesting we have no borde
61 B747-437B : If I've got a Syrian visa and three Lebanese visas in my Australian passport (and I'm caucasian, British resident), would I be fingerprinted by the IN
62 Bravo45 : Stop using caps, it's annoying. What I came to know just here is MOST annoying. but that's not necessarily discrimination. Then why should Americans b
63 Marco : Then why should Americans be so pissed off seing the Saudis heightening their security???? As you said, its their procedure. BTW I NEVER mind any "pro
64 Bravo45 : I don't mind fingerprinting. The discrimination comes when ONLY "these" people are having to go through some special procedure. If you say that 19 Sau
65 B747-437B : Physically abusing Middle Eastern pax doesn't happen, this isn't Nazi Germany. Don't kid yourself Marco. I used to think that myself until I went thro
66 Marco : Sean sorry to hear that! Why don't you take it to court?
67 Bravo45 : Glad that you finally it Marco! This is wrong and this is discrimibation!!! Although in your case Sean, you are not a Muslim and not even from a Musli
68 Marco : I'm still behind what I said earlier on Bravo45. There are isolated incidences like what happened to Sean, but in general it's not that bad.
69 B747-437B : Marco - my lawyers are handling the legal aspect of things and I don't like to comment about it on a public forum - so drop me an email and I can fill
70 Bravo45 : I would also hope that its an isolated case, but seems not be be so. Isolated cases happen all the time. My uncle's shop was attacked and a friend of
71 Docpepz : Sean are you an Indian national? Anyway I am 20, catholic, part indian part chinese carrying a Singapore passport and had no problems entering the US
72 Post contains images Krushny : . By definition, Catholics can't be terrorists I guess. (I'm catholic by the way.. hehe) The bloodiest terror groups in W. Europe (IRA & ETA) have Ca
73 Turin_airport : Hi guys. It may come as a surprise to you but, when a U.S. citizen (or a citizen from a country which is not part of European Union) comes to stay in
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