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Biased Media Reporting  
User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4929 times:


I was watching the coverage of the Kashmir elections on Western channels like the BBC and the CNN (I don’t watch that sick channel FOX; I will be surprised if anybody does!).

Both the BBC and the CNN didn’t bother about reporting that the polls and the counting process was free and fair (which it was, according to EU observers). Instead they were more concerned with reporting that the “pro-India” party National Conference lost the elections. The Kashmiri’s had resorted to “tactical voting” according to one of these characters; they had sent a “message” to India (it seems!).

What they omitted to mention (or mentioned in passing) was that the Congress party had emerged as one of the victors and is sure to form the next Govt. in the state. Now the Congress is the party which fought the British and won India its freedom! So what is the BBC/CNN trying to say: That the Congress is anti-Indian? Jeeez!

I hope the BBC and CNN realize that what they are losing with this kind of biased reporting is their Credibility.


-Roy



64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29690 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4920 times:

Of course CNN is losing it's credibility, that is why the rest of us are watching FOX News.


And lets face it too, The intricacies of Indian/Kasmiri politics are just not interesting or relevent to the daily lives of the Americans who would watch CNN.

As for the British, don't be too hard on them.

You beat them in that war Big grin



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4920 times:

This just in. The media has biased reporting all of the time. Whether the BBC, CNN, FOX, MSNBC, Al-Jezzera (sp), and on, and on, and on.....

User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4925 times:

KROC is right. The media is extremely biassed. Here they are so red you could rub a white sheet on them and you'd get a Soviet flag.


I wish I were flying
User currently offlineBravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4907 times:

FOX is MOST biased of all.
I have sources other than the media as I know some people from Kashmir and they are telling TOTALLY the oposite to what the media reported. ABout the turnover especially. At a lot of places NOT A SINGLE VOTE was casted. I repeat I am quoting the residents of those sides.


User currently offlineAdvancedkid From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 762 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4893 times:

I fully agree.
It's called "presstitution" by the way!
However, don't be so much disturbed.
This is not actually a new thing. In any case
as you would find out, the truth is always out
there for the intelligent amongst us like you.
You just have to read it between the lines
and by comparing the reporting differences
of these corporate media and looking up some
independent news sites. By the way, I am surprised
at what Pravda has turned out to be in the
post soviet era. Not too bad at all, I would say.
Regards,
Advanced


User currently offlineSuper Em From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4888 times:

I agree with everyone here. Fox claims to be "fair and balanced" but they couldn't be farther away from that. I just read the paper go online do further the research and of course come here to discuss it  Smile

User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2175 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4868 times:

There's no such thing as an unbiased news channel. People will report what suits their agenda, whether that appears in the form of "Yeah, lets attack Iraq!" war dances or that annoying use of the prefix "Hindu-nationalist" whenever the BJP party in India is mentioned.

The Kashmir elections are a watershed in the history of that region. For the first time the locals had the power to kick out those whom they felt did NOT satisfy their aspirations, and they did precisely that. India went out of its way to ensure that polls are as transparent as possible.

There WILL be reports of coercion, rigging and whatnot, all of which were unsubstantiated, with no proof on camera. Proof to the contrary comes from the terrorists' own threats to kill anyone who dared to participate in the polling process - candidates or voters. Why would they do that, unless they had something to be worried about ?

The shrillest screeches of the vote being rigged emanate from Pakistan, with no one to substantiate them, and that is to be expected - its what they'd like to see happening. They have their own elections happening now, with a combination of widely-reported rigging, and huge gains for hardline anti-American Islamic parties making it not just a laughable exercise but a dangerous political situation. Pakistan's opinion on Indian election process is irrelevant - they are a army-controlled dictatorship, India is the world's largest democracy.

I find this 'coerced voting' bogey in Kashmir laughable. Voting is by secret ballot. What's stopping people from heading into the closed booth and say, pissing into the ballot box if they felt coerced ? A turnout of almost 50% in a war-ravaged area where terrorists specifically stated that anyone who dared to vote was as good as dead (they killed 700 during the 4-phase polling period, including about a dozen candidates) is a tribute to the bravery of the people of Jammu and Kashmir, and their unwillingness to put up with the uncivilized thugs who spread terror while pretending to be working for their 'freedom'.

India gave the people a chance to exercise their democratic rights, backed up with our own guarantee of security from the terrorist threat. They rose to the occasion and stood up to the danger, voted out a corrupt bunch of politicians who viewed the state as their fiefdom, and elected in those whom they feel will rightly represent their aspirations. Kashmir, for all the trouble it faces, is far more democratic and free than Pakistan has ever been.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineBravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4870 times:

There's no such thing as an unbiased news channel. People will report what suits their agenda
So someone reporting what suits their agenda is unbiased. GREAT ONE PAL!!!!

Hindu-nationalist" whenever the BJP party in India is mentioned.
So the people responsible for the distruction of the historical and religious place like the Babri Mosque are NOT Hindu Nationalists. Whats your point here?? Ofcourse even the Nazis claimed to be normal people.

And:
Hahahahahahahahahaha on the rest of your post.  Big thumbs up really funny things there.
BTW now that you have started the Pakistan-India war here as compared to my opinion based on the witnesses of the elections and its victime, you are talking the Indian media. BTW being the world's "largest democracy" is of NO honor what so ever. Furthermore its one of the MOST currorpt and extremist government in power there. The government responsible for the atomic bomb race in the region. Gatherning weapons at a mass rate and lot of countries are "racing" to be the largest arms provided to India.

This government is also responsible for one of the largest and one of the MOST horrific massacres since the second world war which is STILL not over yet,, resulting in the killing of thousands of Muslims in the MOST HORRIFIC manner. Women to small girls raped, people burned OPENLY in the streets of Gujrat. NOT EVEN the ELECTED political members were spared. And you "unbaised media" reported almost NOTHING of it. The doordarshan reported better than BBC, CNN or FOX etc. The killers were seen with PRINTED papers of the addresses and list of property of Muslims that was targetted. Recently an Indian investigation report revealed that the train that was buned that these barbarians used as an excuse, was reported to have been burned from the inside where only thr Hindus were present. This errupted one of the MOST ORGANISED "RIOTS".
In the end, EVEN the compensation was give on RELIGIOUS basis, with the Muslims recieving HALF of what was given to the Hindus. Not even a SINGLE person caught for the killings. Even the government remains the same. Another anti terrorist law was passed soon afterwards that was so fair that the police could keep someone is jail for years without trial and ALL the people caught as a reult were Muslims.
Call this fair??? Or am I speaking lies?????? Lies accepted by EVEN the Indian Media.(Rather mostly reported by them.)


India took the Kashmir problem to the UN itself. The UN resolutions called for a right of self-determination to be given to the Kashmiri people which they were not given att he time of partition of the subcontinent. To day India is on the verge of saying that there are NO UN resolutions on Kashmir. Tell me one thing! CAN a country conduct elections on the territory that doesn't EVEN BELONGS to it??????
The your "unbiased" media, the CNN, BBC etc, during the cold war used to display the map of the world (because Pakistan was an ally) during its weather reporting, showing Kashmir as a disputed territory. Soon after that Pakistan was needed no more and India was so Kashmir bacame a part of India. Then on perhaps september 12th it became disputed again, and now a days its a part of India. I do wonder when will it became disputed yet again.

And Kashmir elections!! As I said on many areas NOT EVEN A SINGLE VOTE WAS CASTED. These are the words of Kashmiri people that I know. Out of fear???? huh!!! The fear was of Indian army which at a number of previous occasions have forced people to vote.(No word on what happened this time)
50% tunover!! What a JOKE. Nice one. Some agencies repoted less than 4%(unbaised media haan?)
There are thousands of Kashmiri civilians missing after arrest by the Indian army.
Kashmiris want to be with India??? So why not India prove it by giving them the right of self-determination???????? A very logical solution only IF India is saying the true that Kashmiris want to be with them.





User currently offlineBravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4851 times:

This all goes out to BarfBag and his post.
As far as IndianGuy is concerned, we have had a great constructive conversation in the past where I was relieved to meet some reasonable Indian though some points were left undecided.

As far as Pakistani elections are concerned, every one knows that the Islamic parties CANNOT win on rigging they are not powerful enough to do so. Riggin would ONLY be done by pro Indian elements to stop them from comming. Also the win of Nawaz league is the proof that the allegations were not true. Surely Musharaf would not have let him win if there was any rigging.


User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4847 times:

When determining 'biasness' you should differentiate between the news broadcasts from the hourly opinion columns. Don't judge the channels by Hardball, Crossfire or Hannity & Colmes. Those are opinion shows that are supposed to be biased. Judge by the news coverage. That's the part that should be completely unbiased. If you can't handle that, watch the Jim Lehrer(sp) Report on PBS.


"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4863 times:



People will report what suits their agenda, whether that appears in the form of "Yeah, lets attack Iraq!" war dances or that annoying use of the prefix "Hindu-nationalist" whenever the BJP party in India is mentioned.

This makes me wonder what the BBC’s agenda is in continuing with this kind of India-bashing. What is their agenda is trying to prove that the kashmiri’s want to opt out of the Indian-Union when they have clearly shown through these elections that they don’t? PTV is owned by that rogue army across the border. But what’s the BBC’s excuse in furthering this kind of mischief?

As for their description of the BJP as “hindu-nationalist”, that makes me laugh everytime as the BJP is neither Hindu nor Nationalist! The BJP is the one Indian party which believes in kissing American ass bigtime, and they are called nationalists! Puhleeze!

I agree with barfBag that the Kashmiris deserve a pat on their back for expressing their choice through the ballot box and throwing the corrupt National Conference/BJP alliance out despite the threats by the Pakistani Terrorists and their scumbag generals.

-Roy



User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29690 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4852 times:

You ever see an American get snooty with a Japanese, Italian or German person and huffilly say, "We won the war!!!"

That may be what is in the British craw, You all can walk up to them and say, "We won the war!!!"



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineMcdougald From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4831 times:

There is no such thing as absolutely unbiased reporting. Yes, professionals are expected to suppress their biases. But every so often, a bit of bias will leak through, even if it's in the form of a subconscious choice of words or someone's body language.

There are also external factors leading to bias. The media is dependent on advertisers and sources, and is often owned by companies that have interests in other parts of the economy. Is that going to bring some pressure to not spurn the people who pay the bills or to not embarrass the parent company? Of course it will.


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4833 times:

L-188, I know you like Fox, and that's cool, but that's because they are so overtly conservative in their reporting. This thing they say "We report, you decide", is a load of bull.  Smile They make no pretense which side of the fence they sit on-99% of the time, you think you were watching "GOP Live"!

AS for the election, Indianguy, why should Americans be overtly interested in the details? All we really want to know, in any election, is who won.


User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2175 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4825 times:

So the people responsible for the distruction of the historical and religious place like the Babri Mosque are NOT Hindu Nationalists. Whats your point here??

1. The VHP/RSS/BD is not the same as the BJP, anymore than George Bush and Jerry Falwell are the same person.
2. The compulsive desire to use "Hindu-nationalist" every time BJP is mentioned betrays bias. No one calls the Republican Party the "war-mongering Saddam-chasing tax-cutting Republican Party", or some such kinky description  Smile
2. The Babri mosque was not a religious place but a disputed structure, according to law. No namaz has been offered there since the early 1940s, pending a decision on the dispute, and by Muslim law that takes away its claim to being a Muslim religious place. Considering the religious background of the matter, and the fact that every 'solution' based on the presence of a temple and a mosque side-by-side was rejected by the Muslim Wakf board in the 1980s, I don't see what else would have happened, especially when people want to see temples in Hindu holy places like Ayodhya, Mathura and Somnath being rebuilt, after they were destroyed by Mughal thugs.

As for Gujarat, I agree entirely. But that does not make India any less a democracy; it just means we have communal problems. Democracy is the rule of the people, by the people, for the people, and the last time I read, Gujarat wasn't an army dictatorship. Too bad your efforts to stoke another riot by killing Hindus in a temple failed.

As for UN resolutions, as in Jerry Maguire, "Show me the money!" You obviously revel in quoting the UN resolutions, without realizing that no plebiscite is equired to take place until status quo is restored, i.e., all of 'Azad JK' comes under Indian administration in order to perform the plebiscite. Try again.

Some agencies repoted less than 4%(unbaised media haan?)

Again, as you said, your word against mine. Let those 'some agencies' quote the 4% figure, and all those stories of Kashmiris being tortured by those wicked Indians  Laugh out loud

The government responsible for the atomic bomb race in the region. Gatherning weapons at a mass rate and lot of countries are "racing" to be the largest arms provided to India.

Absolutely. If we have the money, and we want the power, we'll get it. Don't like it ? Too bad. What would you prefer ? Kissing and exchanging mithai at Wagah ?



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29690 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4818 times:

Hey Alpha1.

Like somebody said earlier if you strip away all of the opinion shows, it isn't that bad.

Besides, I don't even have cable, so I can't watch either.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2175 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4832 times:

AS for the election, Indianguy, why should Americans be overtly interested in the details? All we really want to know, in any election, is who won.

Alpha1, Indianguy's post was all about the kind of spin that was used to portray why those who won did so. Reporting on the results ranged from extremely well-analyzed in some cases to downright incomprehensible gibberish in a number of others. As in the case of Fox, its not as much news as an attempt to paint a picture with the news.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineBravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4817 times:

The Babri Mosque has been there sor hundreds of years and other than just being a mosque it was a hostorical place as well just like the Buddah statues in Afghanistan. The only difference is that noone spoke out for that and on the other hand the entire world was so concerned in the case of the Buddah statues.
You can claim that the place was disputed, but this is NO justificationthat some thugs would get up and bring it down, and the government did NOTHING to stop them. Even now these extremists hindus are OPENLY saying that no matter what the Supreme Court decides we will built the temple.
VHP etc may not be the same as BJP but they are allies and this is becasue their agenda is the same.

The Gujrat incidents don't make India any lesser democracy but it does reveals that democracy has provided NO security for the large number of Muslim population in India. I would rather like to live safely in a Military controlled country than to be burned alive in some large democracy.

.......all of 'Azad JK' comes under Indian administration in order to perform the plebiscite. Try again.
THE ENTIRE JAMMU AND KASHMIR WILL COME UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE UN PEACE KEEPING FORCE, unders whose supervision then poll will take place just like the recent East Timor case. Something Pakistan is ready to do but India knows the results, have delayed it for over a half century so far.

Again, as you said, your word against mine. Let those 'some agencies' quote the 4% figure, and all those stories of Kashmiris being tortured by those wicked Indians
I was saying that as a reference, what I am saying is from the eyes of the people who live in Kashmir. OKAY??

Absolutely. If we have the money, and we want the power, we'll get it. Don't like it ? Too bad. What would you prefer ? Kissing and exchanging mithai at Wagah ?
If one of the world's most poorer countries wanna spend soo muuch just to fill some extremists desires to be "powerful", Pakistan is right behind. As forces face each other at the borders, if Indian thinks its more powerful than Pakistan, it will have to prove it. And despite the fact that India's defence buget is more than Pakistan's entire buget, India's hesitaton to attack is a proof of what will happen.  Smile
BTW This was what I was trying to prove, India's thirst of agression and will to destroy peace.




User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2175 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4802 times:

You can claim that the place was disputed, but this is NO justificationthat some thu
gs would get up and bring it down,


Absolutely. Religion inflames sentiment. You see it in the demolition, and in riots. If two sides had 5 decades to try to agree to build two religious places side by side and could not agree, you can expect the zealots to run wild.

and the government did NOTHING to stop them.

And risk losing votes ? Or worse, their limbs ? Politics is always about expediency, no matter where you are  Smile

Even now these extremists hindus are OPENLY saying that no matter what the Supreme C
ourt decides we will built the temple.


The Babri mosque stood for 500 years where a Hindu temple once stood, yet no one had a problem worshipping there. No shame, nothing. If people try to defy the Supreme Court, they deserve to be prosecuted, but IMHO there should be no mosque or temple at that particular site. Neither side deserves it.

I would rather like to live safely in a Military controlled country than to be burned alive in some large democracy.

You wouldn't be particularly safe in Pakistan if you were:
a) Hindu
b) Christian
c) minority Muslim, i.e. Shia, Ahmediya etc.

THE ENTIRE JAMMU AND KASHMIR WILL COME UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE UN PEACE KEEPING FOR
CE.


Nope. Status quo means situation before. The UN wasn't there before.

Something Pakistan is ready to do but India knows the results, have delayed it for o
ver a half century so far.


If so, why did the Hurriyat (who are pro-secession) not participate in the recent elections ? Why did the terrorists threaten those who wished to vote ? If they hate us, they would have stayed away on their own will - why would a terrorist threat be required ?

People voted out the supposedly 'pro-Indian' party in power. If they (the Hurriyat) claim such a mandate, why did they not participate ? 'Sham' elections ? The Abdullahs got voted out fair and square. The Hurriyat may well have won, giving Pakistan a *great* deal of leverage. You guys blew it by staying out, and missed an opportunity to strengthen your own argument. To call an elections unfair because the party favorable to you *willingly* stayed out (despite the Indian Govt trying its best to get them to participate) is ridiculous.

India did its best to hold an elections in which it didn't try to influence the result, and gave a guarantee to those voting that they would be protected from terrorists. We accepted the fact that the ruling party was kicked out and that the BJP got just 1 seat
. Hell we're happy about it! We conducted an election well, gave people freedom to choose, happily noted the Hurriyat whine afterwards  Smile Now we can and will claim that those whom we deal with in Kashmir are mandated representatives.

As forces face each other at the borders, if Indian thinks its more powerful than Pakistan, it will have to prove it.

Classic logic. So why should our arms purchases worry you ? As long as we're just having chai-biscuit at the border, it should make no difference, na ? You shouldn't whine about our arms buildup unless we beat you in a war. And that's not going to happen, since as you say, we don't have the guts to do so. So why complain ? Be happy. See Zee TV  Laugh out loud

BTW This was what I was trying to prove, India's thirst of agression and will to des
troy peace.


Absolutely, if it suits our interests. 'Peace' is overrated. I'd rather see meddlesome terrorists being killed by the dozen.



India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4789 times:

As forces face each other at the borders, if Indian thinks its more powerful than Pakistan, it will have to prove it.

Like they did in 1947, 1965 and 1971. One would think that was proof enough.

And despite the fact that India's defence buget is more than Pakistan's entire buget, India's hesitaton to attack is a proof of what will happen

India's hesitation is because a civilized democracy doesn't usually attack other sovereign countries just because they disagree with their policies and actions. Unfortunately, Pakistanis have been so deprived of democracy for so long that they can't even realize this.


User currently offlineBravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4784 times:

The Babri mosque stood for 500 years where a Hindu temple once stood....
Islam doesnot permit a mosque to be build at such a place. But is it so in this case???? No person can get up from his bed and say that I know that its wrong and pick up an axe and bring it down. ITS THE COURT TO DECIDE OKAY????
And the fact that they suddenly remember it was wrong 50 years after independence and 500 years after it was built gives something to think about. Let alone its status of mosque, it was also historically important. Explains the savageness of these people and those supporting them.
It should have been the court to decide after proving to it that its wrong and then be brought down by the government.
Risking votes!!!! Speaks of the nature of the majority Hindus living there and the threat tot he minority Muslims among them.

You wouldn't be particularly safe in Pakistan if you were:...
What if I say that I myself am a Shiya Muslim. BTW there is NO Muslim minority, Islam is NOTHING like Hindu caste system dividing people, I believe in Islam and Islam alone so does the governmental status. In order to enter Madina and Makkah, you need to be a Muslim ALONE.
What if I say that I have a christian living happily next door and I have some Hindu friends all satisfied here? Thats true and I am a witness myself. Proof to you?? The destruction of Babri Mosque enraged the ENTIRE country and NOT A SINGLE TEMPLE was attacked, no church threathened etc.

To be continued.... (gotta go)


User currently offlineLY772 From Israel, joined Aug 2001, 1340 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4762 times:

I only watch FOX...I hate CNN because they are so anti Israeli. All the time showing the troops in Gaza, never the families ruined in buses and in restaurants.

User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4760 times:


Hey Jawad, just wanted to ask if you are even aware of what the topic is? You have ONCE AGAIN turned this thread into a forum for India-bashing. Much as I hate to divert from the topic, I will take time off to respond to each of your rants.


So the people responsible for the distruction of the historical and religious place like the Babri Mosque are NOT Hindu Nationalists.


I agree. People who do these sort of things cannot be human, let alone Hindu. I doubt these people have even understood the basic fundamentals of Hinudtva! So I agree with you fully on that one.

But don’t for a moment start believing that all Indians are like these. These characters are a small minority. Very Small Minority.


BTW being the world's "largest democracy" is of NO honor what so ever.

Perhaps its just me, but I do have this irrational preference for democracy! I would choose a corrupt policeman over a corrupt General anyday!



The government responsible for the atomic bomb race in the region. Gatherning weapons at a mass rate and lot of countries are "racing" to be the largest arms provided to India.

In percentage terms, India spends one-third of what Pakistan does on the military. Your Generals spend 60 paise out of every rupee earned on buying guns for themselves. Last year we spent 17 paise out of every rupee on the military, Far Far less than most countries do! Wrong again Jawad!


This government is also responsible for one of the largest and one of the MOST horrific massacres since the second world war which is STILL not over yet,, resulting in the killing of thousands of Muslims in the MOST HORRIFIC manner.

Blah.. Blah… Blah…

Well correction Jawad, this Govt. hasn’t done this. But then was it guilty of not acting in time? Yes. But ultimately, the Indian system won out. And THAT matters!


The UN resolutions called for a right of self-determination to be given to the Kashmiri people which they were not given att he time of partition of the subcontinent.

Well, yes. The UN did call for that right to be given. But your generals interpret “self-determination” as grabbing Kashmir for yourself. Second, India has never said that there are No UN resolutions! What we are saying is that whatever UN resolutions were passed have become obsolete with the Simla Agreement where-in both India and Pakistan agreed to resolve all issues including Kashmir bilaterally. This agreement overrides the Simla Agreement.

EVEN if you take the UN resolutions, let see what the resolution adopted in 1948 that you are so much in love with actually says:
1. Pakistan should vacate 34775 sq. kms. of area that it has forcibly occupied including PoK as well as the adjoining areas of Gilgit and Baltistan which should be transferred to Indian control.
2.India undertakes to conduct free and fair elections in these areas to allow the people of this region to determine their future.

So you see, Pakistan must vacate those areas that it has occupied. What you are suggesting is that India should keep its part of the bargain, without Pakistan fulfilling its obligation! Surely that isn’t fair!

Far from keeping those obligations to the intl. Community, Pakistan has launched unprovoked aggression aimed at grabbing this area not once but 3 times since. And when that didn’t work, let loose a bunch of armed terrorists to terrorise India. Even that hasn’t worked!


The your "unbiased" media, the CNN, BBC etc, during the cold war used to display the map of the world (because Pakistan was an ally) during its weather reporting, showing Kashmir as a disputed territory. Soon after that Pakistan was needed no more and India was so Kashmir bacame a part of India. Then on perhaps september 12th it became disputed again, and now a days its a part of India. I do wonder when will it became disputed yet again.

He he. Jawad dear. Nobody said that the CNN/BBC was unbiased. Quite the contrary! The topic was that these news channels were BIASED! I suggest you read the topic fully from the beginning. SLOWLY this time!


As I said on many areas NOT EVEN A SINGLE VOTE WAS CASTED. These are the words of Kashmiri people that I know.

There were a total of 4 polling stations were NOT EVEN A SINGLE VOTE WAS CASTED as you put it! The rest had polling figures ranging from a low of 4% in interior areas to a high of 80% in the border areas which see daily shelling from the Pakistani side. The average tally was between 44-46%.


Kashmiris want to be with India??? So why not India prove it by giving them the right of self-determination????????

They DO have a right to self-determination. They have voted to choose who should represent them and rule over them.

While you are ranting here about self-determination for kashmiri’s you seem to forget that YOU, yourself don’t have that right. That right was taken away from you 3 years ago remember when those rogue army generals took over.

Looking at you Jawad, it becomes painfully clear why democracy has not taken root in Pakistan; how those generals manage to rape Pakistan every now and then. Its because you guys are too hypnotized by your mindless hatred for India.

Get over it man!

-Roy







User currently offlineBravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4758 times:

LY772! You only like to see the exaggerated side of the scene you wanna see. Troops are in Gaza and you don't wanna know that its true. Israelis are killing Palestinian childres you don't wanna accept and FOX provides a heaven for people like you. CNN on the other hand likes to show a "part" of Palestinian claiming to be providing the correct view and gives its verdict in the favour or Israel. Both are biased, FOX winning the race by far.

Comming back to what I was saying.......

If so, why did the Hurriyat (who are pro-secession) not participate in the recent elections ?
This is because (you should have known) the elections are ILLEGAL. India is trying to eat away the real right of the Kashmries.

Why did the terrorists threaten those who wished to vote ?
While the Mujahideen (which happen to be Kashmiries) take responsibility of ALL of their attacks on the Indian Military which they aim to throw out of their land. They along with the Hurriat party, ONLY gave a call to boycott the elections and this was the voice of the Kashmiries so they didn't pool. India used the situation claiming that they have threathened the voters, they deny the alligation.

The Hurriyat may well have won, giving Pakistan a *great* deal of leverage.
The Hurriyat states that the fight of independence is to be won OUT of Indian parliaments because Kashmir has NEVER been a part of India, Indian military has tried their best occupying their land, not their hearts.

You guys blew it by staying out, and missed an opportunity to strengthen your own argument.
The argument is that Kashimir is NOT a part of India and has NEVER been. Going into Indian Parliament would be accepting that Kashmir is a part of India. Their claim is "let the self determination decide the fate of Kashmiri people" which I fully support.

Hell we're happy about it! We conducted an election well, gave people freedom to choose,...
They choice they want is GET THE INDIANS OUT!!!! You can be happy to have a grip illegally, not the Kashmiries.

BTW a great number of Hurriyat leaders are ALWAYS in jail for NO stated reason, arrested whiole makeing huge demonstrations, and a LOT of them have been killed while in detention by the Indian Army, let alone an ordinary Kashmiri.

Now we can and will claim that those whom we deal with in Kashmir are mandated representatives.
Hahahahahahahahahaha
thats what India has been always doing in the past as well, nothing new.
An important piece of information, Farooq Abdullah (I saw a Zee TV clip) was called in a program accepted that the ONLY votes that made him the victor were:
1-Himself.
2-Wife.
3-1, 2 or three childres.
4- And a servant.
Same case this time.

So why should our arms purchases worry you ?
Its not worrying Pakistan, its worrying peace. And you guys seems to be so happy to destroy peace time and again.

As long as we're just having chai-biscuit at the border, it should make no difference, na ?
No differnece, except that the Pakistanis are present on their side to knock the hell out of them of they decide to pick those dangerous guns that children shouldn't be playing with.  Big grin

Well the Indians were looking to mass up the forces before Pakistan could take its defensive positions on the borders, the entire plan was top secret and the attack was planned in a way so as to catch Pakistanis by surprise.
And so suddenly they started the process while according tot hem, Pakistanis were "unprepared", althought what followed next was more than enough to make them whine as they saw Pakistanis bringing their forces in position in RECORD time so as to make them SURE that they will not get through. Then the poor Indian soilders, told to wait, had to bear the hottest of summers, as the Indian side was much heated up as compared to the Pakistanis. On the Siachen as well Indians bleeding being on more height. SO no problems here, just that atleast accpet that India is the war lover, peace hater, and all the stuff that a third person reading this conversation among us would feel.

Absolutely, if it suits our interests. 'Peace' is overrated. I'd rather see meddlesome terrorists being killed by the dozen.
There ya go!!!!
Destry everything that doesn't suits interest. Interests, Hindu dominace everywhere, cast system observed all over. Women to be burned alive with the bodies of their husbands as thay have no right to live. And whenever and where ever this is not possible, destroy peace.
Hence proved!


25 Bravo45 : Indianguy! Your post states that the Kashmir elections are not being reported correctly, this calls for the knowing of what is actually going on there
26 Bravo45 : But don’t for a moment start believing that all Indians are like these. These characters are a small minority. Very Small Minority. You have made me
27 B747-437B : Good grief Jawad, I read your rhetoric laced tirades and almost feel sorry for your ignorance. Your view of India is a highly sensationalized and date
28 Rai : Sadly, I am not too familar with the situation in India and Pakistan. To my knowledge, Pakistan used to be a democracy under Bhutto. I always thought
29 Jaysit : Admittedly the massacres in Gujarat were anti-Muslim pogroms encouraged by Narendra Modi who is a butcher by any standards. But the Indian News - all
30 BarfBag : The Hurriyat states that the fight of independence is to be won OUT of Indian parliaments because Kashmir has NEVER been a part of India, Indian milit
31 Post contains images Bravo45 : They're not part of the current J&K legislature. These elections were held to (as India claims) chose a party that will sit in a house with Indian fla
32 Bravo45 : In percentage terms, India spends one-third of what Pakistan does on the military. Dear Roy! Pakistan has said on many occasions that it would like to
33 DPrush : Relax boys...Will straighten out this whole Kashmir thing when we're done with Iraq...Be good now, you don't want a provisional government consisting
34 Bravo45 : Dear Rai! Pakistans democracy has suffered from the direct effects of the cold war, right after its independence in 1947. As Pakistan supported Americ
35 B747-437B : Jawadbhai - again you contradict yourself. If self-determination of the Kashmiri people was all that Pakistan wanted, how about withdrawing forces fro
36 BarfBag : The All Party Hurriyat Conference denies that J&K are part of India in the first place. Why do they call themselves a political party, if they refuse
37 Post contains images Indianguy : THE ENTIRE JAMMU AND KASHMIR WILL COME UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE UN PEACE KEEPING FORCE, unders whose supervision then poll will take place just like
38 L-188 : You know to be honest, maybe it is a good thing that Kashmir is a Def Leopard song to most people. It would scare the %&$ out of most people if they r
39 GDB : I've seen some BBC reports from the region, they DO concentrate on the election carnage, because in the West such things are shocking and unfamiliar.
40 BarfBag : GDB: Indianguy says nothing about BBC trying to paint a picture of coerced voting or any exaggerated picture of malpractice. Hardly anyone one did. Bu
41 Lortab 7.5mg : You know to be honest, maybe it is a good thing that Kashmir is a Def Leopard song to most people. L-188, Kashmir is a Led Zeppelin song.
42 B747-437B : You know Indian and Pakistan making each other glow is probably a more real threat then Iraq. Iraq is hardly an immediate threat to anyone. Even Georg
43 Bravo45 : I am sure that’s what you would like to see. But I am afraid that isn’t what the UN resolutions of 1948 say While thats what I would like to see,
44 B747-437B : Jawadbhai - Your entire post is filled with so much misinformation that it truly makes me value truth and freedom of the press so much more. Is accura
45 Post contains images L-188 : Kashmir is a Led Zeppelin song ARRGGHHH!!! How could I possibly screw that one up.....
46 Bravo45 : Sean Bhai!, brother, I have written the entire post just by my memory, do don't bash me if the figures are not exactly correct, the real will be withi
47 Jaysit : If my memory serves me well, the IAF won the 1971 war flying a bunch of rusty, rickety Gnats while the PAF had the best of Uncle Sam's mighty air arse
48 Bravo45 : had the best of Uncle Sam's mighty air arsenal, i.e, the F-14 Tom Cats. WHAT THE HELL!!!! PAF HAVE NEVER!!! OKAY!, NEVER EVER HAD F-14 ALL THEY HAD WE
49 Bravo45 : As far as the rest of your post is concerned, I have only replied the other guy in his tone. I don't like to fight any peaceful person, but its like "
50 Bravo45 : Get your facts straight man, what do you think, PAF STILL has F-14s????? (bad intelligence) or has PAF phased them out before the US????? As far as an
51 Jaysit : Stop shrieking. The Indian media couldn't care less and doesn't engage in making facts up. Its my mistake. You're right. The PAF did not have F-14s bu
52 OA412 : L-188, I know you like Fox, and that's cool, but that's because they are so overtly conservative in their reporting. This thing they say "We report, y
53 Bravo45 : The Star Fighters and others were based in West Pakistan. East Pakistan ONLY had F-86s and that too ONLY one squadron and remember these planes had th
54 Indianguy : Jawad: First off your ignorance is scary! Sean is right! After reading your ignorant posts, the importance of providing free and unbiased knowledge ha
55 GDB : The IAF did not have just (relatively new) Gnats in 1971, they also had the indigeous HAL-24, as well as Mig-21's, Hunters, Canberras, SU-7's. The onl
56 L-188 : I have to laugh every time Bill O'Reilly comes on and informs his viewers that they are about to enter a "No Spin Zone." Bill O'Reilly is not a news s
57 Indianguy : BDG: The Mig-21's were all deployed on the Eastern Front (barring a few at Ambala which were hastily withdrawn) This was because there was a genuine f
58 GDB : My understanding was that Pakistan had F-104A's, second hand, limited avionics, no real attack capability, just two AIM-9B's and the 20mm Vulcan canno
59 Bravo45 : Overall, the technoolgy advantage was with the PAF since their aircraft had better avionics and better ground support becuase of advanced radars provi
60 Bravo45 : And yes the F-104 were NOT at their full potential, yet they were the best that PAF had. And even then the IAF avoided them all the time. PAF too on t
61 Post contains images Indianguy : I think i need to thank Jawad(Bravo) here for proving how much damage Biased Media Reports can cause! Jawad here is living proof of that! Jawad, Dahl
62 Post contains images Bravo45 : Roy, I think that you need to get straight and be on the point. Which of what I said was from a biased source?? Most of the of what I said have been f
63 Post contains images Indianguy : So u are a member of the BCL eh? They must have special rules to allow THE Jawad to sign up. the british council has a minimum age limit you know! Any
64 Bravo45 : I am talking about the British Counsil's library. Age limits for that IF there are very low. The debate might just be your being sooo well informed pr
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