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Bowling For Columbine  
User currently offlineCessnapimp From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1320 posts, RR: 19
Posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1496 times:

Last Saturday, Captaingomes and I went to see this movie from a Director/writer I am very fond of, Michael Moore. I thought the film was very clever, with some hilarious segments like this one: http://www.bowlingforcolumbine.com/media/clips/index.php
...and click on " A brief history of America "

Essentially, the documentary is about the outdatedness of the third amendment, the right to bear arms, and the culture of fear that is being fed by the media in the United States. It is a film that I recommend for everyone to see.

Has anyone else seen it? Your opinions...

Grégoire

62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13241 posts, RR: 77
Reply 1, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1460 times:

Not released here in the UK yet, though the filmaker Michael Moore is fairly well known here.
He's also an NRA member, which will surprise shock-jocks and all the other usual suspects lining up to attack him for exercising his right of free speech.
His publishers tried to censor his book last year too, then released it untouched, then it became a best seller.


User currently offlineAOMlover From Singapore, joined Jul 2001, 1306 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1449 times:

I've seen Bowling for Columbine with my class.
It's very very interesting.


User currently offlineMika From Sweden, joined Jul 2000, 2881 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1438 times:

I haven't seen it yet but i will as soon as it hits shelves here in sweden. I'm very excited to see it.

User currently offlineRai From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1429 times:

I have not seen this movie yet, but I’ve read some of his books and seen a couple of his other movies. I think he’s a lousy author, but a great filmmaker. He often brings up some good points, but goes way overboard on many issues to the point where it’s difficult to take him seriously.

My friend went to this political rally once and Moore was there. She actually got to meet him. She didn’t really say much one way or the other, but he seemed to be a nice guy, but maybe a bit overbearing with his beliefs (and she’s a card carrying Green Party member!).

By the way, Gregoire, it’s the Second Amendment, not the Third.


User currently offlineTwaneedsnohelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1421 times:

I'm in the middle of listening to the audio version of his book Stupid White Men. I enjoy it very much.

User currently offlineCessnapimp From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1320 posts, RR: 19
Reply 6, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1412 times:

Whoops! My Bad!

By the way, I failed to mention that this flim is the ONLY documentary to be admitted to Cannes in 46 years, where it received a 13 min standing ovation and flew away with the "palme d'or".


User currently offlineTeva From France, joined Jan 2001, 1875 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1381 times:

I have seen this movie in a premiere, in France.
One of my surprises is that a lot of people did applaud DURING the projection (and after ... of course...)
The week of it release in France, even if it was not distributed in a lot of cinemas, it was N° 5 on the box office !!!
And it is only a documentary !!!
I don't ask everyone to agree with M. Moore. But I hope a lot of people will see it (especially Moore's opponents) and that they will think, and use the movie as a tool for an open discussion.

BTW, it didn't receive the palme d'or, but an award especially created for it:
"Prix special du 55eme festival"

Teva



Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
User currently offlineTeva From France, joined Jan 2001, 1875 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1363 times:

Cessnapimp, thanks for the link.
But I recommend people to see the introduction too. The stats that are given here are really impressive.
Just try
http://www.bowlingforcolumbine.com
after that, look at the pictures, the press comments, etc.
In all the video links, the most surprising for me is the Bank.
You open an account... you choose your free gun. Inside the bank !!!
Maybe I am too Frenchie to understand...
Teva



Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 9, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1344 times:

Nice 5 star thread happening here!

Bowling for Columbine was in fact a wonderful movie. I don't agree with everything that Michael Moore says in the movie, but all in all he has done a marvelous job. He makes his argument in a very well thought out way.

What I do wonder however is how American viewers react to this movie. It is in fact very much a critique of America itself by using the gun laws as the prime example.



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineRai From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1330 times:

But I recommend people to see the introduction too. The stats that are given here are really impressive.

Actually, the statistics for firearm deaths he gives are dead wrong for the U.S. (can't confirm for the other countries) FBI has completely different (lower) figures. I trust the FBI's stats over Michael Moore's, sorry.


User currently offlineAmraam From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1317 times:

I saw this film at the San Sebastian film festival where it was very well received and won the 1st place public award.

Makes you wonder when you see these red neck hillbilly losers running around with AR-15's.


User currently offlineCessnapimp From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1320 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1310 times:

My fav quote from the movie:

"Ya know, ya gotta protect yourself... there's a lot of freaks out there..."
 Laugh out loud


User currently offlineKAUSpilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1959 posts, RR: 32
Reply 13, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1304 times:

From what I saw on the link above this film looks like trash. It will obviously appeal to the international crowd because it's a giant criticism of American Culture, and nothing is more popular in the world today than the vilification of America. I certainly wouldn't pay a cent to see it. The last thing I need is some "abused as a child" second rate hollywood reject telling me what's wrong with society.

User currently offlineAmraam From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1295 times:

Hollywood reject won an Oscar.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1287 times:

From what I saw on the link above this film looks like trash. It will obviously appeal to the international crowd because it's a giant criticism of American Culture, and nothing is more popular in the world today than the vilification of America.

Ya, whatever Kauspilot. Meanwhile, your fellow innocent Americans continue to die from gunshot. Given any actual thought to the 10 dead DC'ers today KAUSpilot? Betcha haven't. I have though.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineKAUSpilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1959 posts, RR: 32
Reply 16, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1284 times:

Yyz717, you accuse me like I'm the sniper himself. Your personal attacks on me are yet another sign that your weak arguments supporting the prohibition of firearms are hollow, meaningless, and without substance. I've addressed just how irrelevant the DC sniper (and his ILLEGALLY obtained weapon) are to this discussion on other threads with you....try referencing those before you bring that up again here. Fortunately America will never "ban guns" like you so lustfully desire. Ignorance breeds fear, and you are more afraid of guns than anyone I've ever talked to......

User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 17, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1285 times:

That's part of the problem KAUSpilot. Like I said, I don't agree with everything that this guy has to say, but his arguments are at least very good for stimulating debate. The gun control issue is a serious problem in the United States. Here in Canada, the laws have changed recently, where all firearms have to be registered. The problem with this is that it's those who use guns in a lawful manner which are being punished, while those who will use them for crime will obviously not use a registered gun.

You and others should watch this movie, because it really isn't trash, and it's basically a very valid opinion on a serious problem which currently exists in the United States. And I don't think I'm bashing America when I say that either.



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1279 times:

weak arguments supporting the prohibition of firearms are hollow, meaningless, and without substance

There are 10 dead Americans in DC Kauspilot, who would still be alive if the US had stricter gun laws....a la Canada. I've been thinking of those 10 dead Americans and their grieving families. You don't appear to have been.

Bans guns now for a safer America.







Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineKAUSpilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1959 posts, RR: 32
Reply 19, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1277 times:

Capt, I agree with you for the most part. I support stricter regulations on gun ownership. It is a prudent step in light of continuing abuse of the second amendment. However, people who call for the outright banishment of firearms altogether are ludicrous in my opinion. It should always be possible for law abiding citizens with a clean record to purchases a firearm.

YYZ, how many times do I have to reiterate: The DC SNIPER OBTAINED HIS WEAPON ILLEGALLY. Gun control laws would not have prevented this pyscho from obtaining his weapons. Honestly, the sooner you come to terms with this fact the better off you will be.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 20, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1271 times:

The DC SNIPER OBTAINED HIS WEAPON ILLEGALLY

Correct....because of the MASSIVE supply of legal handguns in circulation!

Reduce the LEGAL gun supply ~ you reduce the illegal gun supply ~ you reduce gun crime and murder!

Until you do, every gun-loving American is indirectly responsible for the innocent murder of Americans by gunshot, which is shameful.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineKAUSpilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1959 posts, RR: 32
Reply 21, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1262 times:

Afraid not Yyz717. The proliferation of the illegal drug industry has proven that making something illegal doesn't curb demand, and demand determines supply.

To accuse all gun loving Americans borders on insanity if I may venture to say so. Never have I seen a more shining example of flawed logic.

http://www.fedupcanada.org/Media/media_211.htm


You see, all handguns in Canada have had to be registered since 1934. All handgun owners have had to have special permission to own their guns, special permits to transport them from their homes to their shooting ranges, and have had to abide by especially stringent storage laws.

And yet, the government's own homicide statistics for 1999 show what they have shown every year since 1991, the most common type of firearm used in murders is ... a handgun.

"Handguns were used in 55 per cent of all firearm homicides,'' according to the official report, "a proportion that has remained relatively constant'' for the past decade. Prior to 1991, also according to an earlier StatsCan report, handguns accounted for around 30 per cent of firearms murders.

In other words, in the past 10 years or so, despite the 66-year-old requirement that all handguns be registered, there has been a near doubling of the use of handguns in murders.

Why? It is surely not because law-abiding owners have upped their use of them. Indeed, lawful handgun ownership has likely declined during the past decade as more and more restrictions have been placed on owners.

No, the reason handguns are more often used in murders now is that more and more criminals prefer them, and no matter what the registration requirements imposed by Ottawa, criminals won't be deterred from the illegal ownership and use of firearms.




User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 22, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1254 times:

You're right. Let the NRA win. Let innocent Americans continue to die in the name of the gun-loving American culture. Maybe, perhaps, it will be one of your loved ones who gets gunned down one day. But that's okay, if the criminal who used the gun to kill your relative is caught and held accountable. Yessirree.....the fact that he stole a gun from a legitimate gun owner (or bought it illegally) is okay since he's going to prison.

Man o man.....what a mentality.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineKAUSpilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1959 posts, RR: 32
Reply 23, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1250 times:

It's sad that you actually hope for more innocents to be murdered just so you can add weight to a hopeless argument. You can keep right on hoping my entire family will get murdered this week for all I care. I know that would make your day if it happened. And FYI, I have lost a relative to Gun violence. That experience did not change my stance on this issue at all. Guess what? He was involved in drugs. Random acts of violence like the sniper are the exception rather than the rule, despite the fact that they get 99% of the media attention.

What you don't hear about are the gang bangers that mow each other down by the dozen every weekend......these types incidents get chalked up in the statistics and represent the majority of gun crime, yet the perception of people like you seems to be that you can't go walking down the street of a major American city at night without getting shot....simply not true. There is an element of lifestyle which for some reason does not get considered in the statistics, and those who lead this lifestyle have no regard for the law, weather it be a law about theft, a law about drugs, a law about gun control, or a law about murder.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1235 times:

It's sad that you actually hope for more innocents to be murdered just so you can add weight to a hopeless argument.

What an incredible twisting of logic. My interest in banning guns is to save lives. Your interest in not banning guns is to promote the US gun-culture above public safety.

I have lost a relative to Gun violence. That experience did not change my stance on this issue at all. Guess what? He was involved in drugs.

So, in other words.....he got what he deserved?? Maybe he just needed some help.

Just think about those 10 dead DC-ers today KAUSpilot mowed down by that sniper.....just for 5 minutes. Think of how their lives could have been saved.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
25 KAUSpilot : In my opinion, their lives could only have been saved if John Muhammad had elected not to go insane and start killing people, or if law enforcement ha
26 L-188 : I haven't seen it, not planning on seeing it. But I will be going out and looking for an AR-15 lower in the near future. Anybody hear anything about t
27 Ilovea340 : Actually I have seen his numbers for gun deaths more often. Personaly I gave the FBI muchg less credibility.
28 Cessnapimp : KAUSpilot, Your refusal to hear what a documentary has to say about gun control in the United States portrays perfectly the kind of isolationism that
29 KAUSpilot : Ha! I watched all four of the free segments that were provided and saw nothing that would compel me to spend money. So, despite your accusations, I am
30 Radarbeam : KAUSpilot, Your refusal to see the other side of the argument is appalling. I have never almost agreed with Yyz717, but IMHO this time Neil is right.
31 Captaingomes : I was able to find some compelling statistics, which I brought up for the sake of good debate, but nobody seems to be adressing them. One of the inter
32 KAUSpilot : Guns aren't simply a tool to kill people. They are used for sport, they are used to hunt, they are used for protection. Hell, there's even an olympic
33 L-188 : I hunt. There are several Olympic sports that uses rifles and pistols I have some doubts about those statistics. Are deaths by drunk drives counted as
34 Post contains links Mika : Michael Moore, the director of Bowling for Columbine appeared on the Donahue show this monday. I didn't have the opportunity to see it myself but i re
35 Rai : Based on the full transcript, he seems to want the U.S. to beccome part of Canada!
36 Post contains images 747-451 : "When I moved to New York City a decade ago, there were 2,100 murders that year. New York then enacted very strong gun laws. You cannot really-you can
37 Mika : Why don’t they go for the gun and kill at the rate that we do? Admit that this is a good question at least. Does anyone have the answer to this?
38 Rai : Yes, 747-451. I agree. I should also add that Moore’s correlation of NYC crime statistics with gun control is simplistic and not entirely true. I us
39 747-451 : Actually, you haven't gone off the topic. You clarify my statement and also demonstrate that there is more to crime control than "simplistic gun banni
40 Mika : And if you read the transcript carefully Moore says that he doesn't believe that it's all about gun control and tighter laws. He makes an excelent exa
41 Post contains images 747-451 : "Why don’t they go for the gun and kill at the rate that we do?" Micahel Moore makes the mistake of using Japan as an example of contrast to the
42 Post contains images Rai : Took the words right out of my mouth, 747-451! I probably couldn't have stated any better than you. Anyways, I'm off on vacation tomorrow. Have fun de
43 Mika : 747, I will agree with the comparing to Canada part. It got a little beat up in that transcript at least. I haven't seen the movie itself yet so i wou
44 Post contains images 747-451 : However, Mika, this movie and all the press relating to it and a majority of posts on this board make it a "gun" issue. My major complaint with Mr. Mo
45 Teva : 747-451 You are right. He doesn't give solution in this movie. The objective is that people watching the movie will think about problems, start discus
46 Mika : I agree with Teva, The movie is supposed to spark a debate not nescessarily give answers.
47 747-451 : You make too many incorrect assumptions, here is where you are "wrong": 1) US citizens are debating the issue regarding crime and law since long befor
48 747-451 : See above, we have been debating this issue since way before 9/11, Columbine or anywhere else. And we didn't need a faulted movie to do it either.. Se
49 Mika : See above, we have been debating this issue since way before 9/11, Columbine or anywhere else. And we didn't need a faulted movie to do it either.. Ob
50 KAUSpilot : Actually Mika, your hero Michael Moore stated in an interview on the TV guide channel that he agrees with the NRA when they say "Guns don't kill peopl
51 Mika : KAUS, I'm aware of that. It's in the transcript i posted above. And he said that he agreed with the NRA in part. Not fully. However you are right, he
52 Post contains images 747-451 : Mika, I reiterate: "Micahel Moore makes the mistake of using Japan as an example of contrast to the US. There are too many differences between Japan,
53 Mika : but I see no movies about that either...actually, there isn't enough discussion on a lot of things now is there... I don't wan't to go comment about
54 Post contains images 747-451 : I reiterate: 1) The US is not one world or insular "Surely the US is essentially a country like any other and it does not exist in it's own world wher
55 Post contains images Mika : I suggest that you visit NYC, and see that all of us "get along" without "guns in our belts" and learn that there is more to the US than the NRA, Bill
56 L-188 : I wonder if Mikey Moore, ever considered using real quotes from the DOJ in his movie??? "Boys who own legal firearms have much lower rates of delinque
57 Post contains images 747-451 : Mika, "What is it that you are pushing here? That school shootings and various acts of domestic violence are a part of the US and americans should acc
58 Mika : 1. I partly agree. Problems might not be solved the same way in the US as in Switzerland. But then again they actually might be solved exactly the sam
59 Post contains links 747-451 : 1) Perhaps cannot is not the right word, "probably not" is more apropos. 2) I stand by my assesment of "statistics"; since they are easi;y manipulated
60 Mika : Thanks for the links, i'll check them out as soon as i can. Furthermore i see no use for me to comment on your comments above since the two of us obvi
61 Post contains images Mikeclod : Did you know that 58.235% of all statistics are made up? That's an unfortunately true/sad joke by the way. The reason for the gun violence (imho) in A
62 747-451 : couldn't have said it any better...thanks!
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