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So Much For The Peaceful Open Minded Saudi Muslims  
User currently offlineGalaxy5 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2034 posts, RR: 24
Posted (12 years 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2404 times:

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) - Saudi Arabia warned non-Muslim residents Sunday not to eat, drink or smoke in public during the fasting hours of the Islamic holy month of Ramadan, starting later this week.
A statement by the Ministry of Interior, carried by the official Saudi Press Agency, said violators could face "deterrent measures" that include loosing their jobs and deportation.

The ministry issues similar warnings every year just before the start of Ramadan, which is expected to begin this year around Nov. 6, depending on the sighting of the new crescent moon.

There are seven million foreigners living in Saudi Arabia, of whom two million are non-Muslims. The kingdom has a population of about 19 million.

Fasting during Ramadan - the holiest month of the Islamic calendar- is one of Islam's five pillars. Muslims believe that it was during Ramadan that the Quran, their holy book, was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad some 1,400 years ago. During the month, devout Muslims abstain from eating, drinking, smoking and sex between sunrise and sunset.

Saudi Arabia is the home of Islam's holiest shrines in Mecca and Medina and views itself as the chief protector of the faith.




"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
109 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePacificjourney From New Zealand, joined Jul 2001, 2734 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (12 years 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2387 times:

Other than the fact you actively dislike Saudi Arabia - which we knew anyway - what exactly is your point ?


" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2380 times:

Well, it´s like threating to expell Muslims non-citizens that wear traditional clothes in public,
then the muslim world would be very upset....


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (12 years 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2380 times:

As the "home" country of Mecca, I can understand Saudi Arabia wanting to encourage Muslim traditions & rites. However, this act does little to indicate to the world that Islam is a tolerant religion.

Those 2M non-Muslim foreigners in Saudi Arabia are there helping the local economy.....respect by the SA authorities for their non-Muslim traditions should be expected.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineHamfist From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 614 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (12 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2362 times:

I think the point is pretty clear. Why should non-Muslim citizens be forced to follow Muslim customs or traditions?

I think Galaxy5 is just pointing out the unaccomodating nature of the Saudi national leadership. Seems a truly understanding and tolerant religion would recognize that not everyone shares their beliefs.







User currently offlineDavid B. From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3148 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (12 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2357 times:

How stupid are you people. SA is ruled by a royal family. They make the rules. Nothing to do with religion. They need to accomadate non-muslims. Again, it has nothing to do with religion but rather the royal family forcing non-muslims to follow the rules of religion. So, if anything blame the government, not the religion.

The person who posted this knows nothing about the ME.



Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (12 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2359 times:

The requirements here are for ALL residents, Muslim and Non-Muslim alike, to refrain from smoking, eating or drinking in public during fasting hours. That is not an unreasonable condition. Heck, most major US cities have NO SMOKING ordinances in public buildings. SINGAPORE does not allow you to eat or drink aboard public transport.

Saudi Arabia still allows all people to smoke, eat or drink in the privacy of their home or hotel whenever they like. It isn't like they are trying to force an unreasonable modification of behavior upon people. They are simply mandating, as every government does, that people keep those actions private.

Sorry, but for all the faults that the Saudi government has, this isn't one of them.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (12 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2348 times:

Nothing to do with religion. They need to accomadate non-muslims. Again, it has nothing to do with religion but rather the royal family forcing non-muslims to follow the rules of religion.

This is a self-contradictory statement. Of course it's all about religion.....in particular, the suppression of non-Muslim practices....not very enlightening for the "centre" of Islam. And yes, this DOES reflect on the entire Muslim world.

The requirements here are for ALL residents, Muslim and Non-Muslim alike, to refrain from smoking, eating or drinking in public during fasting hours. That is not an unreasonable condition.

Of course it's unreasonable! Since I'm not Muslim, why should I follow ANY Muslim practices???????



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineDavid B. From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3148 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (12 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2343 times:

The ban is similar to the ones the US government issue on smoking and cell phones. Smoking is not allowed in public buildings, cell phones can't be used while driving (in NY). It is similar to what the SA government is doing. They are trying to preserve Muslim traditions. I think the punishment is too harsh but that's not our problem. How about Sunday blues laws? Liquor can't be sold before noon on Sunday? What's up with that? How about all non-Catholics and non-Christians? We cant buy beer? Seems like a truly understanding and tolerant religion would recognize that not everyone shares their beliefs.




Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (12 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2337 times:

Since I'm not Muslim, why should I follow ANY Muslim practices

Smoking, eating and drinking in public are hardly "Muslim practices". I see people of every religion, including Muslims, engaging in all three of those activities on a daily basis around the world.

Yes, the motivation for this ban may be religious in its origin, but the ban covers what is strictly speaking a civic issue and does not force religion upon anyone. Its not as if they are forcing non-Muslims to fast or visit the mosques. They are simply requiring them to conduct certain activities in private, which is their absolute right as a sovereign government.


User currently offlineDavid B. From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3148 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (12 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2336 times:

Its a muslim country and the least you could do is respect their religion. What is wrong with that?

This is a self-contradictory statement. Of course it's all about religion.....in particular, the suppression of non-Muslim practices....not very enlightening for the "centre" of Islam. And yes, this DOES reflect on the entire Muslim world.

It has something to do with religion. It has more to do with the government trying to enforce it. The government is supressing it, not the people. There is a difference. All Israelis are right wing radicals? Do they reflect on the entire Jewish "world"? Some people can tell the difference between the government and the people.



Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
User currently offlineGalaxy5 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2034 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (12 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2331 times:

Hey DAVID how many times have you been to the middle east?
"The person who posted this knows nothing about the ME."

well? ive been there to many times to count and go there on a regular basis, have you yet to experience the ME in all its glory. Well i wish you would maybe it would wake you up and open your small mind.



"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 12, posted (12 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2322 times:

Its a muslim country and the least you could do is respect their religion. What is wrong with that?

Nothing. But do Muslim immigrants to the UK, Italy or Germany respect Christian norms? Of course not. So why should Westerners be expected to when visiting Muslim countries?




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (12 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2314 times:

Thing is, I wouldn't call the UK at least a Christian country. Sure it has Christian history but now it's too diverse to be called a Christian country.

User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (12 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2310 times:
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Muslim bashing is "cool" for certain members here.

However, this act does little to indicate to the world that Islam is a tolerant religion.

Whatever you think, islam is a tolerant religion.




In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (12 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2309 times:

I wouldn't call the UK at least a Christian country. Sure it has Christian history but now it's too diverse to be called a Christian country.

95% of Brits are Christian, albeit the majority are non-practising. All of the UK institutions (rule of law, democracy, private enterprise, private property, freedom of speech, tolerance) were gained during the centuries of Christian enlightenment. It's only the last generation that sizable numbers of Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs & others have migrated to the UK. Hence, the UK is definitely a Christian country.

The question needs to be asked why are Christian-majority countries willing to allow in Muslim immigrants while Muslim countries not only don't allow Christian immigration but actively restrict Christians rites such as Saudi Arabia is doing.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (12 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2306 times:

Muslim bashing is "cool" for certain members here......Whatever you think, islam is a tolerant religion.

The actions by the Saudi Arabian government suggest that it is not tolerant.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (12 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2306 times:

do Muslim immigrants to the UK, Italy or Germany respect Christian norms?

Curious what you mean by "Christian norms"?


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (12 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2302 times:

The actions by the Saudi Arabian government suggest that it is not tolerant.


No, the actions of the Saudi Arabian government suggest that THEY are not tolerant.


User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (12 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2302 times:

I can't believe there are people actually defending Saudi Arabia. What happened to freedom, democracy, etc?

Is shoving your religion down people's throats acceptable?

Arsenal, just out of curiosity have you studied Islam, or read the Koran?



Proud to be an Assyrian!
User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (12 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2300 times:
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The actions by the Saudi Arabian government suggest that it is not tolerant.

The Saudi Arabian government (or royal family) does not, and will not represent the views of islam.




In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (12 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2297 times:
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Arsenal, just out of curiosity have you studied Islam, or read the Koran?

I am muslim. Does that answer your question?




In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (12 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2297 times:

Yes it does.

It still doesn't change my views on Islam though.



Proud to be an Assyrian!
User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (12 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2294 times:
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You can have your beliefs, but the facts don't change.



In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (12 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2294 times:

but the facts don't change

Exactly Big grin



Proud to be an Assyrian!
25 777236ER : Yyz, I live in the UK and it's definatly not a Christian country, as you can call Saudia Arabia a muslim country. Like the US and Canada, there's tota
26 Marco : But the majority of the population is Christian. These countries were built on Christian foundations. Although I tend to agree that these countries ar
27 Hepkat : Here in Austria, a staunchly Roman Catholic country, all businesses are closed on Sundays, the Sabbath, by law. No one, whether Muslim, Christian, Jew
28 Arsenal@LHR : The UK is one of the most multicultural countries on earth with many nationalities and faiths living together (much to your dissapointment).
29 777236ER : So what Marco? It's not a Christian country. You may think it is, but I live here and it's not.
30 Avt007 : Look, it's very simple- those 2 million foreigners are there to work. Essentially, the Saudi government is their boss, since they only have a job at t
31 Mandala499 : D'oh... This Saudi decree applies to RESIDENT'S ONLY... whatever their religion. Tourists and visitors need not comply (but be considerate...) But, at
32 Twaneedsnohelp : I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you guys because I'm views on the subject are fairly clear, but I'll say this - I am not surprised at a
33 Arsenal@LHR : Why is the US a strategic ally of a country with such limited freedoms as this? Oil.
34 Marco : 777 read my post carefully and think about what you wrote.
35 777236ER : I'm not talking about forgetting Christian histories and traditions. That's not the point. Yyz said Britain was a Christian country, which it isn't.
36 Marco : But did I say it was? The majority of the population considers itself as Christian...that should matter.
37 777236ER : You didn't say it was, Yyz did. The majority of the population considers itself Christian, true. However, the majority of the population is white. The
38 Yyz717 : Just because a group is the majority means nothing. Errr...no. It means quite a lot. It means they are the predominant group, and their rites & custom
39 Ryanb741 : Arsenal@LHR - are you by any chance ethnically Bangladeshi? It's just that Hoque is a surname you sometimes see in Bangladesh.
40 Post contains images Twaneedsnohelp : It means they are the predominant group, and their rites & customs invariably will prevail. and The majority of the population doesn't have heart dise
41 Post contains images 777236ER : Yeah I know I can TNNH. Hey, it's pretty late and I got pretty damn drunk last night. Anyway... My rather muddled point was that the majority doesn't
42 Post contains images Arsenal@LHR : Arsenal@LHR - are you by any chance ethnically Bangladeshi? It's just that Hoque is a surname you sometimes see in Bangladesh. How did you guess?
43 Jaysit : Saudi Arabia is a Muslim monarchy and a theocracy. Those foreigners who live and work there know the rules of the game before they arrive. For all the
44 WorldVoyager : The argument that a foreigner should not have to follow these rules because Saudi Arabians do not have to follow any such rules in other (ie Western)c
45 David B. : Most Americans think that when they travel to other countries, their customs, ideas travel with them. This is not true. When traveling to foreign coun
46 Twaneedsnohelp : David... thats not the issue. The issue is not that Americans are bitter over following "local customs". The issue is that these "local customs" demon
47 Yyz717 : The issue is that these "local customs" demonstrate that Saudi Arabia is an inward, closed-minded intolerant regime that deprives its women of equalit
48 David B. : Somehow, I'm not surprised you didn't catch that the first time around. Save the insults. I had enough from you. Anyway, It is their country. People
49 David B. : Islam will continue to have a (deservedly) bad name in the liberal West as long as the standard-bearer Islamic nation (Saudi Arabia) continues to igno
50 Pacificjourney : Whenever I visit the US I am amused that I am not allowed to do the following, - drink alcohol on the street - gamble in bars - pass on the inside - p
51 Yyz717 : And knowing you, you want this to continue. Actually, you don't know me.
52 Twaneedsnohelp : People who live there know what they are in for. They know that the government is closed-mined. They know that there is no freedom and everything is g
53 Marco : Pacific Journey obviously you haven't been to Saudi Arabia, because your post makes no sense whatsoever.
54 Pacificjourney : I will write this slowly for you Marco. If you don't like the local conditions, either don't stay or don't go ! It is their pool and if they want to p
55 David B. : It doesn't make it OK but the people know what they are up against.
56 Marco : will write this slowly for you Marco. No thanks. If you don't like the local conditions, either don't stay or don't go ! What about respect, human ri
57 Pacificjourney : Citizens of SA, and any other muslim, know these requirements already, they are part of normal life for them. No more restrictive than bars being clos
58 Twaneedsnohelp : It is their pool and if they want to piss in it then that is their business not yours. Not anymore champ. Normally what happens in people's "internal"
59 Jaysit : Well, sure. We know that at least 15 Saudis were fanatical nutcases. But what does this have to do with an old edict on restrictions on ALL (Muslims a
60 Pacificjourney : TNNH Be very careful when deny the principal of national sovereignty as that door swings both ways. I dislike many aspects of US education but in the
61 Twaneedsnohelp : No, pacificjourney, you completely missed my point and I'm sorry for the confusion. Let me explain. Today the Saudis declared that they will not assis
62 Post contains images 747-451 : "The ban is similar to the ones the US government issue on smoking and cell phones. Smoking is not allowed in public buildings, cell phones can't be u
63 Airmale : This is really not an ISLAMIC EDICT, its the fanatics that have made it so harsh, basically you're not supposed to eat infornt of people who are fasti
64 Yyz717 : this is not Islamic, its Saudi fanatic Then why does the Islamic world put up with it then??? Why aren't there protests in Cairo, Bahrain & Karachi???
65 Twaneedsnohelp : YYZ is right. Where is the outrage in the Islamic world for shit Saudi pulls? Why aren't the Egyptians, Jordanians, Iraqis, Pakistanis, and Iranians o
66 Meechy36 : What I like is that Saudi's want us to follow their rules in their country but also follow their rules in our country, like the woman in Florida who r
67 LOT767-300ER : Meechy good post I agree with you.
68 Twaneedsnohelp : Now, do you think Saudi Arabia would put up with what we put up with? We're better than Saudi Arabia, thats not the issue. What is the issue is that r
69 Bravo45 : Where is the outrage in the Islamic world for shit Saudi pulls? Why aren't the Egyptians, Jordanians, Iraqis, Pakistanis, and Iranians outraged with h
70 Yyz717 : nothing can beat the discrimination the muslim visitors are facing in the US. Huh? You're kidding right? Americans Muslims can vote, can choose any ca
71 Bravo45 : I was particularly refering to the laws according to which the muslim visitors alone can be and are being held for any purpose or for no purpose. Talk
72 Yyz717 : I was particularly refering to the laws according to which the muslim visitors alone can be and are being held for any purpose or for no purpose. Big
73 Bravo45 : No Muslims are being asked to give up any of their beliefs or norms in the US. Besides, if it's that bad.....they don't have to visit the US, do they?
74 NWA742 : Yes they have not been asked, but they have been terrorized to that point. Explain. I don't see any people of Middle Eastern descent being terrorized
75 Marco : Oh please give it up Bravo45. There are five million Muslims living freely in the USA. Some of them are allowed to practise their religion even MORE i
76 NWA742 : Some of them are allowed to practise their religion even MORE in the USA than their countries of origin, IRONICALLY. That's a very good point. -NWA742
77 Yyz717 : The US is actually MORE supportive of Islam that just about every Islamic nation on earth. What Islamic country can allowed 5M Islamic immigrants in t
78 Twaneedsnohelp : The US has done more for the Islamic world than anyone in recent history. Whose soldiers led the campaign to liberate Muslim Kuwait? Which country giv
79 Bravo45 : we have any intention to destroy Islam is COMPLETELY INCONSISTENT WITH REALITY. It is INSULTING, DANGEROUS, and WRONG. Never did I said anything like
80 Yyz717 : Never will I be able to forget that 19 Muslim Arabs slaughtered 3000 Americans on 9-11 in the name of Allah. This makes your "unforgetables" rather in
81 Eg777er : What I don't understand about this thread is everyone is castigating Saudi for this approach to Ramadan, whereas the same approach is taken in Bahrain
82 Twaneedsnohelp : In the same way, if you walk naked through London, New York or Paris you could expect to offend a lot of people......and probably get arrested! if you
83 Eg777er : Laws that cover standards of public decency are directly related to attitudes in that particular country. So, a public nudity law will ensure that the
84 747-451 : Thanks, YYZ717-- "Never will I be able to forget that 19 Muslim Arabs slaughtered 3000 Americans on 9-11 in the name of Allah. This makes your "unforg
85 Post contains images Yyz717 : If 95% of the country are trying to obey their own religion by fasting from dawn till dusk, it's not polite for a few inconsiderate westerners to ponc
86 Post contains links Twaneedsnohelp : And I take particular offence to you calling my home a "backward, closed, fourth world hellhole".......it is a gross misrepresentation of the truth (i
87 Aviatsiya : And yet again just about everyone has strayed drastically from the topic. As an atheist living in Australia, I am not able to go into a bar on "good f
88 Eg777er : Aviatsiya, rock on! Tnnh, I don't have to read a flaming report, I goddamn live there! Even if you do read the report, you'll find a region where Huma
89 Marco : One would think that devout Muslims would have enough will power not to eat, even if someone eats in front of them. Isn't the whole point of Ramadan t
90 Yyz717 : you travel to another country knowing what their laws, customs and traditions are, and if you don't like them, then don't go. If you do decide to go,
91 Twaneedsnohelp : but you'll learn a lot more about it if you actually look at the facts, rather than a whole load of anti-Arab propaganda. Oh jesus. This report was wr
92 Eg777er : "if you don't like the Aussie Christian traditions of bars being closed on Christmas & Easter, you are free to return to Russia." If you don't like th
93 Rai : This is my first post in almost two weeks. I said I'd refrain from this site, but his statement was just too much: If I said that the entire US was a
94 Rai : I will also add that suburban Detroit is THE model when it comes to Muslim-Jewish relations. Both are thriving communities in the Detroit metropolitan
95 Eg777er : Rai, my apologies. When I said suburban Detriot, I meant 'urban' as opposed to 'rural'. With regards to New York......London has 10,000 police officer
96 Rai : With regards to New York......London has 10,000 police officers less than NY....and is still a safer city! Less murders, but more robberies, muggings
97 747-451 : How much larger is NYC ompared to London?? really!
98 Aviatsiya : Similarly, you seem to be of Russian background yet living in Aus.....if you don't like the Aussie Christian traditions of bars being closed on Christ
99 Rai : New York has approx. 7.5 million people. London has approx. 7.5 million people. There is no difference. No. According to the 2000 Census, little over
100 Aviatsiya : Do those 22 million people pay New York City taxes? Or do they pay their own taxes? And are those 22 million included in official crime figures? Just
101 Rai : 22 million in the metro area. That includes suburb cities like Newark and White Plains (just as Fremantle is to Perth). 8 million pay NYC taxes, just
102 Post contains images Rai : P.S. What does this have to do with Saudi Arabia?
103 Aviatsiya : Rai, to answer your question. Who the hell knows? Like most things on these forums, it always strays away from the original thread topic which from me
104 Post contains images Rai : Like most things on these forums, it always strays away from the original thread topic which from memory was something about why Kylie is a much bette
105 Post contains images Aviatsiya : No Rai, Kylie is much better because the girl can actually sing, dance, and most importantly, is not the creation of a record label, but rather has ev
106 Eg777er : Ahhhh........another lies, damn lies and statistics discussion. New York's Crime rate, including the Tri-state area, is lower than London's. The Tri-s
107 Rai : The New York Metropolitan area is considered the tri-state area because it encompasses Southern New York State (Wetchester County, Rockland County, Lo
108 Eg777er : I always thought that the tri-state region was New York state, New Jersey state and Pennsylvania state......or is that just me being completely wrong?
109 747-451 : "The United Kingdom has 60 million people."- As an entire country, not parts of three states, so Rai's conclusions are correct. And add to that NYC ha
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