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Protests Growing In Iran. Guess Why?  
User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 995 times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/12/international/12CND-IRAN.html

Basically, the hardcore Islamist mullahs are going to hang a "reformist scholar" for speaking out against them. Thousands of Iranian students in Tehran and other cities are marching for a fourth straight day in protest...the whole story is provided in the link (free registration required for NYTimes access)...but check out this excerpt:

After their rally in Tehran, students marched through the huge university campus, holding hands and singing "Ey Iran," the national anthem before the 1979 Islamic revolution.

It goes without saying the irony is pooling up in huge lakes here. The mideast's march back to the 11th Century could be stopped in its' tracks by exposing what that trip did to one of the region's largest countrys.

Has the West found allies in (gulp) .....chanting Iranian students?




36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDavid b. From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3148 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 979 times:

I say this is good news. Maybe they will revolt, take the Islamic mullahs and hang them.


Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 971 times:

Iranians are great people. Most of them are open-minded and are against the current fundamentalist government. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a revolution in the next few years!


Proud to be an Assyrian!
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 949 times:

I think the Iranian people are tired of the "Islamic Revolution" that was brought to them by Mr. Nuts, the Ayatollah Khomeini. They certainly don't want what they "had" under the Shah, but they are tired of these mostly old men telling them how they should live.

Are they ripe for revolution? Remains to be seen. But the seeds are there. And does that mean they'll be an ally of the west? That's problematical-I think most likely, Iran tries to become a strong voice in what used to be called the "non-aligned" countries. I most certainly think an Iran free of the mullah's will probably not side with terrorists. But time will tell.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 939 times:

I think the Iranian people are tired of the "Islamic Revolution"

Well, it certainly impoverished them. Their high-water mark for economic progress was in 78/79 in the last days of the Shah.

Alpha....nice to see you back man.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineRai From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 929 times:

I wouldn’t read too much into these protests. The same thing happened in 1999 of the same, if not bigger magnitude, and only a few “laws” resulted. Nothing’s really changed in Iran since then. I think the mullah’s are letting this thing stand to show the world that they “tolerate” dissent.

A friend of mine recently immigrated from Iran. Super nice guy with an absolutely gorgeous wife (Iranian girls rock!  Big thumbs up). He was saying that he and his relatives are not at all happy with the state of things in their country and that the discontent is growing.

Iranians are very educated, tolerant and very reasonable people. It’s very sad that this regime is in control of things and suffocating this country out of its potential. Iran would be the powerhouse of the Mid East if it had a government that promoted tolerance and progress. An Iran under different leadership would also be a significant blow to terrorism (they are the primary sponsor of Hezbollah) and the Islamic fundamentalist movement. After all, it is the Islamic base of the Iranian government that these fundamentalists try to pattern themselves and their aspirations after.


User currently offlineTwaneedsnohelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 926 times:

I think the mullah’s are letting this thing stand to show the world that they “tolerate” dissent.

I don't. Khomeini threatened to unleash the "popular foces" (aka "armed forces") to stop the protests if they do not end quickly. Not exactly a sign of tolerance.

I wouldn’t read too much into these protests.

Lou, I think this is one of the best things in the world.

TNNH



User currently offlineRai From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 916 times:

Lou, I think this is one of the best things in the world.

I certainly wouldn’t argue against that, Russ. I believe that that the fall of this regime will be the single most important victory in the war on terrorism. As I mentioned before, it abolishes the founding and the foundation of Islamic militancy. The successful reign of this government has been the continuing fuel and inspiration for the fundamentalists; even though they practice a different sect of Islam and that they are Arabs. The fact that such a state exists is motivation enough.

It’s just that we’ve seen this before and it’s produced lackluster results. I do hope that it leads up to something because it would totally benefit the region and maybe spawn a new type of revolution in the Mid East. One with perhaps better consequences.


User currently offlineFlyVirgin744 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1313 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 858 times:

Iranian girls rock!

Here ya go Rai:

http://sage-hearts.com/geo/Iran.html



Sometimes I go about in pity for myself and all the while a great wind carries me across the sky.
User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 841 times:

TNNH says:

"""Just sit tight and wait for the chorus of anti-everything, socialist, hypocrites on here reminding us that America kills Muslims for sport and that at least the Islamic world is better off than sub-Saharan Africa.

TNNH""

Why do I finally come to the conlcusion that perhaps you have a real thought in your head? Seriously though, Islam as a religion is incredibly backward and sad for the people that have been brainwashed by it. I don't agree with any organised religion whatsoever, it's supposed to be based on love but is always invariably based on hate (or contrued in that manner). Any religion (inlcuding Catholicism) that makes women second class citizens has to be purged out of modern society.

Hopefully the modern people in Iran will revolt against such things, but I feel for them.

Imagine if the these people of the Middle East took an image of themselves and developed things to the state that Malaysia is today? Not perfect but a hell of a lot better.

The sooner we outlaw religion period, separate from state, the better the world will be.

And now I make my statement of intent.

"""Islam, in it's most fundamental ways is an evil back-water of repression and uncivility. The sooner we stamp it out or modify or drag it into the 21st century the better."""

The strange thing is with all religions, they are driven by men. Think about that.

mb

religion=evil


User currently offlineLindy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 824 times:

What was the topic about? hmmm hehehe
Damn you people. I went to that link with women and I spent last 40 minutes searching ladies hehehe
There is one great girl from Liverpool UK and she's willing to relocate to USA.
Well, first I would have to relocate my girlfriend to SC hehehehe

Rafal


User currently offlineLindy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 818 times:

I forgot to say that Iranian people in general are ok. I've been living with one past 6 years. Never had even one fight with him. Well, because in part he is my brother in law hehehe
And yes, they are very educated. 70% of his iranian friends have Master Degree or PHD.

Rafal


User currently offlineDavid B. From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3148 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 816 times:

In-laws do nothing more then take up space Big thumbs up


Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
User currently offline747-451 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2417 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 804 times:

A few months back, 60 Minutes did a story about students in Iran; and how they want Iran to change into a more modern country. One of the points of they brought out is that the students that are marching now were infants or very young when the "revolution" happened and they feel that occurance wasn't really for the best...

User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 789 times:

It is interesting to note that the country with most anti-American government has the most pro-American population in the Middle East. While the most pro-American regimes govern the most anti-American populaces (Saudia Arabia and Egypt). Observation of Thomas Friedman and not my own.

I do not think that there is anything inherently backward or intolerant about Islam. Rather, it has not undergone anything like the Protest Reformation or the Age of Enlightment. I think the Arab-Muslim world of today is like Germany in 1931. A chaotic place with a some really bad people with bad ideas clamoring for power.

I think a day will come when Iran will again become a US ally but the day is a ways off.

I disagree that religion=evil. Some of the most heinous acts ever have been committed by the atheist regimes in the Soviet Union and China.


User currently offlineFDXmech From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3251 posts, RR: 34
Reply 15, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 769 times:

>>>The sooner we outlaw religion period, separate from state, the better the world will be.<<<

Ironically, the anti-religious appear to me to be a religion unto themselves. The un-religion fundamentalists are as zealously intolerant toward any and every religion or any psuedo religious symbol (eg. Christmas tree at town hall) no matter how innocuous (sp.). How do you outlaw religion? Do you reeducate or indoctrinate the masses to the un-religious specification, do you pull suspected religious citizens from their homes at midnight. This forum appears to me having several potential candidates for the "thought police", scary.



You're only as good as your last departure.
User currently offline747-451 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2417 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 755 times:

Ironically, the anti-religious appear to me to be a religion unto themselves.

How true!

Actually, any "movement" followed with complete devotion is like one. Nazism is a perfect example--Hitler elevated to "god like stauts" and the movement follwed with such zeal. It had nothing to do with a "god", "diety" et al but it practiced "religiously".

With such devotion, any "practice" can be "religious" as far as devotion to their practice; vegitarianism, athieism etc etc.

"The un-religion fundamentalists are as zealously intolerant toward any and every religion or any psuedo religious symbol (eg. Christmas tree at town hall) no matter how innocuous (sp.). How do you outlaw religion? Do you reeducate or indoctrinate the masses to the un-religious specification, do you pull suspected religious citizens from their homes at midnight. This forum appears to me having several potential candidates for the "thought police", scary"

I agree again, it is interesting how intolerant some people are and this sort of "cleansing" public areas of anything spiritual is offensive. And like anything "offensive" just look away and ignore it. I am agnostic, but I respect the fact that people can be comforted in spiritual devotion and wish to have symbols around them or in public, I also respect those symbols because they are meaningful to those people who do practice because I know they are so menaingful to them--and I know that it is not done as an affront to me. I would hope that others would be more accepting of "alternative lifestyles" when it comes to religion among other things...


User currently offlineRai From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 747 times:

Ironically, the anti-religious appear to me to be a religion unto themselves.

Actually, I think the most ironic thing of all is that it is the anti-religious who are the first to step up and defend religious-based violence (in this case, Islamic-based terrorism). Just look at this forum!  Laugh out loud


User currently offlineTwaneedsnohelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 733 times:

It is interesting to note that the country with most anti-American government has the most pro-American population in the Middle East. While the most pro-American regimes govern the most anti-American populaces (Saudia Arabia and Egypt). Observation of Thomas Friedman and not my own.

Isn't he brilliant?

Tom Friedman for president


User currently offlineDavid b. From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3148 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 721 times:

LOL  Big thumbs up

He'll never win.....



Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
User currently offlineKric777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 279 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 719 times:
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The growing discontent among the youth of Iran (who significantly make up a huge proportion of the population there) is a great thing for nearly everyone.

If the fundamentalist regime could be toppled someday, a friendly, relatively secular (compared to now, anyway) Iran would be an invaluable ally for the USA/UK in particular, and the West in general. Unlike trying to rebuild say, Iraq or Afghanistan, Iran already has a large, well-educated professional-class of doctors, engineers, etc. living abroad right now that could help to lead the country. And their petroleum reserves would mean some income for the country while a competetive industrial base is established.
I'm not an expert on the Middle East, but my understanding is that on an ethnic level, there has traditionally been little love lost between the pro-Western, Farsi-speaking Iranians and the Arab countries (e.g. Saudi, Iraq, Yemen, Egypt, etc)...Not much that bonds them culturally except for Islam and petroleum. An allied, progressive Iran would be an invaluable partner in stabilizing the Middle East...at the very least a far better "ally" than the House of Saud, and could quickly become by far the wealthiest and most powerful nation in the region. The Iranians have always been more tolerant of non-Muslims than the Arab states. Even now, I believe there are sizable communities of Christians and Jews in Iran who are quietly tolerated.

Also, I think I have read that even though the current regime supports Hezbollah and spouts the requisite anti-Zionist rhetoric, the Iranians historically have even had much better relations with Israel than the Arab countries.

If the Iranian people are able to cast off the cabal that are in power now, the West should embrace that country like a long lost lover. But the key would be to help the Iranians set up a democratic, progressive government..not simply another Shah. It is against the Pahlavi (sp?) regime, after all, that fundamentalist Islam appeared an attractive alternative  Sad
I think a Middle East with two friendly, regionally strong, relatively democratic countries like Turkey and potentially Iran, which were cordial with Israel, would be much more stable than it is today. That's not to say the same problems wouldn't exist, but progressive, democratic interests would have considerably more leverage.


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 707 times:

religion=evil

Wrong, Mx5_boy. Perversion of religion=evil. There's nothing basically evil about religion.



User currently offlineTwaneedsnohelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 700 times:

Welcome back Alpha.

Great to see you again.


User currently offlineAviatsiya From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 682 times:

What has to be noted with Iran today, is that it has a reformist government (led by Khatami). His government was elected under promises to reform the economy of the country. However, he hasn't been able to do this. And it isn't the Ayatollah who is stopping it; it is the even more hardline judiciary which is stopping reforms from going thru.

The Ayatollah has stated that if both parties can't break the current impasse, that steps will be taken. What these steps are are not known, but it is assumed that both the government and the judiciary will be sacked. Ayatollah Khamenei (NOT Khomenei...he died years ago) seems to realise that Iran is going forward; their economy is expanding and are taking to the international stage again, even with the Islamic Republic currently in place. Reforms are able to be introduced within the framework of the Islamic Republic, and he seems committed to this.

But he does need to reign in the hardline judiciary if future reforms are to work for the good of the Iranian people.

Why is everyone so against the idea of an Islamic Republic in Iran? They are far from perfect, yes, but the people have a right to vote for the government. And it was a popular revolution which swept the Islamic clergy into power in Iran, anything would be better than living under the Shah and his murderous SAVAK, where human rights were even less than in present day Iran. People bitch about the Islamic Republic, and that the people have no freedoms and are ruled by religion. Couldn't the same thing be said about the Vatican? The pope isn't popularly elected; the people are forced to live their lives under strict religious rules; etc. I think it is just biase against the Islamic religion which gets some people going.

Kric777....Iran already is by far the richest and most powerful nation in the Middle East. The economy is twice as large as Saudi Arabia. 4 times as large as Israel. It is also the most powerful military force in the Middle East, particularly in terms of manpower.


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 677 times:

And it isn't the Ayatollah who is stopping it; it is the even more hardline judiciary which is stopping reforms from going thru.

And who do you think is behind the judiciary? They are mullahs and ayatollahs themselves.

How would you feel if in your home country you had to behave as a Muslim, even if you were not? Your wife must wear a veil, and cannot leave the house unescorted by a family member. Your taxes are used to fund bombs to blow up people in restaurants and cafés. You have to stop whatever you are doing 5 or 6 times per day to pray in the prescribed manner. If you fail in any of these and other duties, you can be imprisoned or executed as an apostate. You would not like that, would you?

The "popular revolution", similarly with many revolutions in history, was less pro-religious extremism but more a rejection of the previously existing order. Sure, maybe the Ayatollahs are better than the Shah for many people, but it's like comparing Hitler and Kaiser Wilhelm II. Both were utter bastards intent on power.

Couldn't the same thing be said about the Vatican? The pope isn't popularly elected; the people are forced to live their lives under strict religious rules; etc.

What a lot of horsecrap! If you don't like living in the Vatican, just move across the street! Nothing prevents anyone from not living according to canon law, if they don't feel like it. Nobody forces women into nun's outfits. In fact, I'm pretty sure that rent and other costs are probably cheaper outside the Vatican. In the end, all the people who live at the Vatican are there because they WANT to be. It's just a city block, with no border controls.

Charles


25 Twaneedsnohelp : Iran already is by far the richest and most powerful nation in the Middle East. The economy is ....... 4 times as large as Israel. more horseshit. Fir
26 Marco : Iran already is by far the richest and most powerful nation in the Middle East. The economy is ....... 4 times as large as Israel Iran is a very poor
27 Pacificjourney : Has anyone noticed that no matter what the subject Rai always manages to give his opinion on the desirability of the local ladies in question ? Someon
28 Aviatsiya : TNNH Whether Iran has 1 million or 100 million people it is still the richest country in the Middle East. Why is it that America is the richest countr
29 Post contains images DAVID B. : Has anyone noticed that no matter what the subject Rai always manages to give his opinion on the desirability of the local ladies in question ? Someon
30 Twaneedsnohelp : Whether the Iranians are tapping into the intellect or not is not relevant. Oh how wrong you are! It is everything relevant.
31 Cfalk : But remember, the people of Iran chose the Islamic Republic thru the Revolution in 1979. No they didn't! They revolted AGAINST the Shah, not necessari
32 Jaysit : TNNH: Actually, Iran is not just a desert scape with sand dunes running across the country as some Americans would like to believe. And while the Mull
33 Post contains images David b. : Actually, Iran is not just a desert scape with sand dunes running across the country as some Americans would like to believe. And while the Mullahs ar
34 Twaneedsnohelp : I bet if the mullahs were locked up, and Iran received the same level of financial assistance that Israel does per capita, you would see one of the mo
35 Cfalk : Your comments would suggest that the Israelis were just handed their success on a silver platter - that the American aide was just an automatic handou
36 Twaneedsnohelp : Absolutely Charles. In fact in 1967, the US demanded Israel not take any corrective steps after Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping
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