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Kenya Refuses To Let Israel See Evidence  
User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 35
Posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1957 times:

Kenya is refusing to let Israel or the USA have access, or get involved with the investigations into the recent attacks. The US and Israel do not feel Kenya is in a position to do a proper investigation. I tend to think this is more a publicity issue, and I personally agree that Kenya probably don't have the tools to do a thorough investigation...

MOMBASA, Kenya (AP) - Kenya will not heed Israeli demands to turn over some evidence in the attacks on an Israeli-owned hotel and an Israeli jetliner, saying Sunday it would conduct the probe alone. The Israeli defense minister said al-Qaida was the main suspect in the attacks.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20021201/ap_on_re_af/kenya_israel_attacks_5

76 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1935 times:

While it is important to investigate into the dastardly incidents against Israeli targets, Kenyan sovereignity must also be respected.

I think Israel should offer outside assistance to the Kenyans in conducting this investigation, but overall authroity must rest with the Kenyans.

-Roy



User currently offlineTwaneedsnohelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1921 times:

another sh*tty little country placing vain pride over saving lives.

whose surprised?


User currently offlineRai From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1920 times:

Actually, I sort of agree with Roy here. Let the Kenyans try to figure it out. Indonesia is heading their own investigations into the Bali bombings, but they are allowing others to assist them and they're making good progress as a result. If the Kenyans feel they can handle it themselves, let them. If the governments who want to assist have a problem with it and aren't confident with Kenya's handling of the investigation, then tell the citizens to avoid into Kenya.

User currently offlineDelta-flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2676 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1921 times:

It's obvious why Kenya wants to keep Israel out -- they are afraid of further reprisals by the Muslim terrorists. It has nothing to do with sovereignty -- allies routinely share evidence of criminal activity.

Kenya has been one of the few allies Israel has in Africa, which not only explains the Israeli tourism presence there, but also the US embassy bombing in Nairobi and now this. Kenya has a fine line to tow between holding on to Israeli business and appeasing the terrorists.

One thing is for sure, though -- Israel will get this information regardless, and will take care of the terrorists whether the US likes it or not.

Pete


User currently offlineTWAL1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 200 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1912 times:

How much steam can the pressure cooker take before the top blows off?

God help those who are nearby when it does.

It's gonna get ugly soon.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1910 times:

I keep thinking about what Israel's response would have been had the 753 crashed and killed all 270 aboard. It could easily have started a regional war.


Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineTWAL1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 200 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1903 times:

Good point, Yyz717.

Like I said, there'll only be only so much that will be accepted before the gloves come off...other countries be damned.


User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 35
Reply 8, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1900 times:

I keep thinking about what Israel's response would have been had the 753 crashed and killed all 270 aboard. It could easily have started a regional war.

I think the response should be the same, as far as I am concerned a new line was crossed with that attack, and just because it failed (as far as the airliner goes), they tried, and to me that is as bad as them succeeding

Jeremy


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1897 times:

I totally agree with Roy on this one. It's a jurisdicitonal thing: it happened on Kenya's turf, it's their investigation. If they want help from the U.S. or Israel, they need to ask, Israel cannot DEMAND that they be allowed to assist or see any of the evidence.

And Twaneedsnohelp, it has nothing to do with Kenya being a "shitty little country placing pride over saving lives." That's just bitching about this because Israeli's were involved. Kenya's soverignty has to be respected here, just as Israel would want theirs to be respected.

Let Kenya run with it. If they need help, they'll ask.


User currently offlineTWAL1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 200 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1895 times:

And Twaneedsnohelp, it has nothing to do with Kenya being a "shitty little country placing pride over saving lives." That's just bitching about this because Israeli's were involved. Kenya's soverignty has to be respected here, just as Israel would want theirs to be respected.

Let Kenya run with it. If they need help, they'll ask.


Hate to differ with ya on this one, Alpha, but bullcrap.

This has everything to do with Israel. Israeli citizens were the victim here.

JAL 123 was all about Japanese citizens, but it was Boeing's plane.

This isn't a turf war.


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1891 times:

Hate to differ with ya on this one, Alpha, but bullcrap.

This has everything to do with Israel. Israeli citizens were the victim here.


Bullshit or not, it happened on Kenyan territory, and they have EVERY RIGHT to run with the investigation as they see fit. There were more Kenyans killed in the attack (10) than there were Israelis (3), so why should Israel be granted any jurisdiction unless Kenya requests their help.

I am a staunch supporter of Israel, but when you see arrogants comments like these, demanding Israel something it isn't rightfully entitled to, it's one reason why many people have a problem with Israel.


User currently offlineTWAL1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 200 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1884 times:

Fair enough, Alpha.

But one of our Thanksgiving guests was a balloon pilot who recently retired from Kenya. Truth is, the Kenyans don't like us. They don't like the Israelis. But they do like our money.

Let the Kenyans run with their investigation.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1883 times:

Kenya may want to run the investigation, but they need to be mindful that Israeli investment in their economy could quickly stop if they don't produce results asap.


Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1879 times:

TWAL1011,

The Kenyans don't really have anything against the USA/Israel.

Also, I agree with Alpha 1, Kenya's sovreignty must be protected, it happened on their turf. I'm sure mutual cooperation would be appreicated, but dictating what to do and what not to do, won't be appreciated.



Proud to be an Assyrian!
User currently offlineTWAL1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 200 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1872 times:

The Kenyans don't really have anything against the USA/Israel.


Damn that friend of mine. He's a damned liar.


User currently offlineAviatsiya From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1862 times:

This happened in Kenya and is such Kenyan territory and Kenyan authority takes precedence. If Kenya need assistance or help they will ask for it; they have more to lose in this case than either Israel or America.



Although this might not be visible in the photo above, the byline for the photo reads:

Local, Israeli and American police and military forensic experts were still busy poring through rubble and debris at the bombed out Mombasa Paradise Hotel searching for clues that may help them zero in on the perpetrators of Thursday’s terrorist atrocity which left 16 people dead.

Whats this about Israelis? I was of the understanding, particularly from some posts above my own, that the Kenyans were allowing any Israeli involvement? Then why are there Israeli "police and military forensic experts" in Mombasa? Especially seeing as Kenya is not co-operating with Israel?

TWAL1011

Does your Kenyan friend speak for all Kenyan citizens? I doubt he would, so maybe he speaks only for himself?

TNNH

You are one very very sad individual. I have not yet seen on these forums anywhere were you have praised any other country apart from Israel or America. I can only mirror what Alpha 1 has said to you, except Kenya is far from a "shitty" country. When was the last time you were there to be able to make a comment such as that? Oh that's right, I forgot, you have never been there.



User currently offlineILOVEA340 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 2100 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1855 times:

Its an incedent on Kenyan soil so it their choice. What would the US have said if Iraq had wanted to investigate 9-11 as I am pretty sure at least one iraqi national died in that attack.

User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7011 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1856 times:

If the Kenyans were serious about getting rid of terrorism, and solving this problem, they would not even think twice of giving the Israelis this information. If they are interested in finding this out, they will accept what help they can get for the superior criminal investigators in outside countries and not turn it into an issue. Furthermore, an Israeli jet was targeted and the authorities wont turn over parts of the rocket launcher. An Israeli owned hotel was destroyed and they wont turn over fragments of the bomb.

Now tell me why Israel doesn't have every right to be fully involved in this investigation. This is completely stupid in my opinion. Israeli civilians were attacked, so Israel has every right to investigate this, and since this involves terrorism, they should not be hindered in any way. What does Kenya gain by blocking their further involvement?



NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 19, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1851 times:

Perhaps Kenya wont let the Israellis involved into the investigation because they do not like the let's help this 'shitty little country' attitude of them.

BTW, Kenya is atleast 20 times bigger than Israel so I would not call it a little country. And where is the shitty based upon?



SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7011 posts, RR: 26
Reply 20, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1848 times:

Manni,

I'm sure as an ally, Israel does not treat Kenya with this attitude. Perhaps TNNH may have this view, but that does not reflect on the Israeli government. Besides, what does this have to do with helping to solve terrorism? Terrorists in Kenya almost brought down an Israeli airliner, and the government isn't fully cooperating with the investigation? Unbelievable.



NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineAviatsiya From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1847 times:

And again might I add, we see people referring to only to Yankee or Israeli media sources for their news. From

http://www.nationaudio.com/News/DailyNation/Today/News/mainNews021220020b.html

Two fragments of the car bomb which left 15 people dead at the Paradise Hotel were yesterday recovered by police...........The fragments were taken away by Israeli bomb experts, who are in Kenya working with local investigators........"

Hmm...Israeli bomb experts taking fragments? Hmm...the Kenyans are not co-operating?

With this news as far as I am concerned, this entire thread has turned around to the very opposite of what some people are claiming and trying to portray.


User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7011 posts, RR: 26
Reply 22, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1839 times:

Aviatsiya,

Could you please shot a little more respect? No need to use derogatory names, really makes you look foolish.



NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineAviatsiya From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1841 times:

Excuse me Tbar? I mention "Yankee" because that is what Americans are called down here. But of course, I don't see you lamblasting TNNH for his use of "shitty country".

And by the way, Yankee is not a derogatory word.


User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24815 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1836 times:

Everyone uses the word "Yankees".
Yes, it should be Kenya who conducts the investigation, however, perhaps Israel should be allowed to help out in anyway they can.



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
25 Alpha 1 : If the Kenyans were serious about getting rid of terrorism, and solving this problem, they would not even think twice of giving the Israelis this info
26 Hepkat : I agree with Alpha1. Statements such If the Kenyans were serious about getting rid of terrorism, and solving this problem, they would not even think t
27 Post contains links Aviatsiya : Here is a resport from the East African Standard. http://www.eastandard.net/headlines/news010.htm Unfortunately, there are people on these forums who
28 Post contains links Aviatsiya : in relation to there being nothing on the 3 family members being killed in the Israeli press, because I found this: http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/
29 TWAL1011 : Aviatsiya, my balloon pilot friend is an American. I apologize for not clairifying that. So no, he does not speak for all Kenyans. He does speak as an
30 Post contains images Aviatsiya : TWA L1011 No worries on that. I really do find it hard to digest when people say "People from NationX hate people from NationY. I know this, because o
31 TWAL1011 : Hmmm... Lemme ask him if he was an a-hole while he was over there. I'll get back to you later.
32 Arsenal@LHR : another sh*tty little country placing vain pride over saving lives. Shame on you for making such a comment.
33 Tbar220 : Hepkat and Alpha1, I still disagree with you here. This is not arrogant of me to make such statements. An Israeli airliner was almost shot down over K
34 Tbar220 : Aviatsiya, My apologies, I didn't know that the term was commonly used.
35 Artsyman : My only fear here is that Kenya does not have the same resources to track down information as does the US or Israel etc. For example, Israel and US wa
36 Hepkat : No one is suggesting that Kenya has the technical expertise, or "influence" to properly solve this case. However, as far as the international protocol
37 Artsyman : Hepkat, I agree, I am just hoping that they actually do seek the assistance. I do not question their intent, just their means Jeremy
38 KHI747 : It is precisely the attitude exhibited by Twaneedsnohelp that unfortunately wins America so many enemies from the world over....he is one naive and so
39 Yyz717 : i think if all the people in America like him were sent to that prison in Cuba Well, there are 3000 Americans who could not be sent to that Cuban pris
40 Elal106 : KHI747, i think you should think twice before calling anyone a "racist extremlist" before you question your own country of origin - Pakistan. ********
41 Alpha 1 : An Israeli airliner was almost shot down over Kenyan airspace. It could have meant 270 dead. This is just as bad as if it would have been shot down.
42 Artsyman : Who are you, and what have you done with Alpha 1? Jeremy
43 KHI747 : Oh trust me Elal106 i have thought MUCH more then Twice before calling Yyz717 what i did.....his track record clearly proves what i said. But you were
44 Alpha 1 : Artsyman, I like your humor, but on a serious not, I've always maintained that, while I support Israel, they can be a royal pain in the ass sometime.
45 Post contains images TWAL1011 : TNNH and Yyz717, I agree with you guys 99.95% of the time, but your comments here are not exactly positive or productive. Hepkat, untie Alpha 1 and le
46 Twaneedsnohelp : But the fact remains, Israel has no right to demand access if Kenya doesn't grant it, simply because a plane was "almost" shot down. It still is up to
47 Tbar220 : Alpha 1, What does Kenya have to lose by giving Israel the bomb fragments from the jeep and the rocket casings? Nothing. Israel is not dictating the i
48 Aviatsiya : Yyz717 There were way less than 3,000 Americans killed on 11/9/2001. Did you guys see afterwards the governments of Australia, India, Russia, England,
49 Twaneedsnohelp : Did you guys see afterwards the governments of Australia, India, Russia, England, Bangladesh, Germany, France, Spain, etc, etc all demand that they ta
50 Tbar220 : I think many of you are missing the point. Israel never stated anywhere that they are taking over the investigation or even planned to. This is simply
51 Post contains images Aviatsiya : there was never a question that the world's richest and most powerful country was capable of properly conducting the investigation. duh. Is this why t
52 Tbar220 : Aviatsiya, You're kidding right? I'd like to think that these forensics experts and investigative experts have good reason to want these. If its that
53 Aviatsiya : Tbar220 I know that they might want to get that information, but I still haven't been shown why any missile casings or anything else needs to be remov
54 Twaneedsnohelp : Is this why the public of the world still does not know who killed JFK, wow - your not desperately grasping. haha What next? American-Israeli Airlines
55 Artsyman : Aviatsiya wrote... Plus I don't see anywhere in the media where the American and Israelis are calling for the Kenyans to turn the investigations over
56 Tbar220 : Aviatsiya, I still haven't been shown why any missile casings or anything else needs to be removed from Kenyan juridstiction to be able to obtain that
57 Twaneedsnohelp : so hows kenya's investigation going? any suspects? no names of the dead killers? no any pertinent arrests? no (the initial tourists were all quickly r
58 OO-AOG : another sh*tty little country placing vain pride over saving lives That's really a sh*tty little comment. For God sake, can't you give a little respec
59 LY772 : It kinda hurts because after the bombing in the US embassy in Nairobi, Israeli's "Air Force Unit 669" was one of the first to arrive in Kenya.
60 Arsenal@LHR : do you even know what does respect mean? I'll answer that for you. No he doesn't. Arsenal@LHR
61 777236ER : Now they've demonstrated they were either incapable or unwilling to deal effectively with this threat - its high time they move aside. And the US is s
62 ADG : Wake up Kiddies.... Kenya is a country and not part of either Israel or the United States of America. It has every right to investigate incidents in i
63 Post contains images Twaneedsnohelp : some rude comments here.... firstly... For God sake, can't you give a little respect for foreign countries time to time?!, do you even know what does
64 Tbar220 : ADG, Might I point out that neither the US (who failed to warn it's citizens of the danger in Kenya) and Israel (who's idea of catching terrorists is
65 Post contains links Aviatsiya : any suspects? no http://www.nationaudio.com/News/DailyNation/Today/News/News0512200277.html any pertinent arrests? no (the initial tourists were all q
66 OO-AOG : TNNH Of course champ. But before ignorantly mouthing off- see it this way. My grave concern is not that I'm not lending Kenya "respect" but that Kenya
67 Tbar220 : Aviatsiya, Look, no offense, but this isn't exactly the news source I was thinking somebody would come up with when we were looking for any leads in t
68 Post contains links and images Aviatsiya : Tbar220 Well, you know, it is better to look for sources close to where the event happened, and the Daily Nation is a Kenyan paper. What better source
69 Post contains images Twaneedsnohelp : where were those "lucky stars" when Israeli search and rescue experts (the worlds finest) were saving injured and dying kenyans from another Islamic t
70 ADG : TNNH, Can't argue with that. But does that preclude Kenya from receving millions of dollars in American foreign aide? How about key American inteligen
71 ADG : I'm sorry, but didn't terrorists tried to shoot down an Israeli plane with 270 passengers, and tried to blow up an Israeli owned hotel with 150 Israel
72 ADG : TNNH, where were those "lucky stars" when Israeli search and rescue experts (the worlds finest) were saving injured and dying kenyans from another Isl
73 TodaReisinger : Indeed, Israel does nothing without a reason Please ADG...tell us which country "does things without a reason"... (apart from Australia, of course; bt
74 Tbar220 : You know, some of your comments don't even make me upset, just flabbergasted. *** Maybe the Kenyan authorities are not wanting to be screwed by Israel
75 ADG : Toda, Your comment regarding pre-emptive strikes is inaccurate (surprise surprise), our country made no such statement. The government has indeed tabl
76 TodaReisinger : Your comment regarding pre-emptive strikes is inaccurate (surprise surprise), our country made no such statement. The government has indeed tabled som
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