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The Bible  
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8494 posts, RR: 12
Posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1566 times:

This is a fascinating dissertion on the greatest book ever written. From
http://net-burst.net/search.htm

The Bible covers hundreds of topics, yet it does not contradict itself. It remains united in its theme. "Well, what's so amazing about that?" you may ask. Consider these facts. First, the Bible was written over a span of fifteen hundred years. Second, it was written by more than forty men from every walk of life. For example, Moses was educated in Egypt and became a prophet over Israel. Peter was a simple fisherman, Solomon was a king, Luke was a doctor, Amos was a shepherd, and Matthew was a tax collector. All the writers were of vastly different occupations and backgrounds.

Third, it was written in many different places. The Bible was written on three different continents: Asia, Africa, and Europe. Moses wrote in the desert of Sinai, Paul wrote in a prison in Rome, Daniel wrote in exile in Babylon, and Ezra wrote in the ruined city of Jerusalem.

Fourth, it was written under many different circumstances. David wrote during a time of war, Jeremiah wrote at the sorrowful time of Israel's downfall, Peter wrote while Israel was under Roman domination, and Joshua wrote while invading the land of Canaan.

Fifth, the writers had different purposes for writing. Isaiah wrote to warn Israel of God's coming judgment on their sin, Matthew wrote to prove to the Jews that Jesus is the Messiah, Zechariah wrote to encourage a disheartened Israel who had returned from Babylonian exile, and Paul wrote addressing problems in different Asian and European churches.

If we put all these factors together, the Bible was written over fifteen hundred years, by forty different authors, at different places, under various circumstances, and addressing a multitude of issues. It is amazing that with such diversity, there is such unity in the Bible. That unity is organized around one theme: God's redemption of man and all of creation. Hundreds of controversial subjects are addressed and yet the writers do not contradict each other. The Bible is an incredible document.



Personally, I thought this was interesting. I finished my first read through of the entire Bible (an NIV Study Bible) a few weeks ago. It took me about a year to read the whole thing, and it was worth it, even though the Old Testament got rather boring sometimes.

I also have to wonder... I don't mean to start a flame war, but I've read the Bible and I don't remember it contradicting itself anywhere. Yet, when people talk about the Quran, one person'll show how Mohammed said to don't hurt people, and someone else will point out that here it says to make war on non-Muslims. Something to think about, I guess.


72 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBizJets From France, joined Jun 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1542 times:

Should we kill?
Exodus 20:13 "Thou shalt not kill."
Leviticus 24:17 "And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death."
vs.


Exodus 32:27 "Thus sayeth the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, . . . and slay every man his brother, . . . companion, . . . neighbor."
I Samuel 6:19 " . . . and the people lamented because the Lord had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter."
I Samuel 15:2,3,7,8 "Thus saith the Lord . . . Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. . . . And Saul smote the Amalekites . . . and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword."
Numbers 15:36 "And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses."
Hosea 13:16 "they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with children shall be ripped up."
For a discussion of the defense that the Commandments prohibit only murder, see "Murder, He Wrote", chapter 27 (Losing Faith In Faith: From Preacher To Atheist).

Should we tell lies?
Exodus 20:16 "Thou shalt not bear false witness."
Proverbs 12:22 "Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord."
vs.


I Kings 22:23 "The Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee."
II Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie."
Also, compare Joshua 2:4-6 with James 2:25.

Should we steal?
Exodus 20:15 "Thou shalt not steal."
Leviticus 19:13 "Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbor, neither rob him."
vs.


Exodus 3:22 "And ye shall spoil the Egyptians."
Exodus 12:35-36 "And they spoiled [plundered, NRSV] the Egyptians."
Luke 19:29-34 "[Jesus] sent two of his disciples, Saying, Go ye into the village . . . ye shall find a colt tied, whereon yet never man sat: loose him, and bring him hither. And if any man ask you, Why do ye loose him? thus shall ye say unto him, Because the Lord hath need of him. . . . And as they were loosing the colt, the owners thereof said unto them, Why loose ye the colt? And they said, The Lord hath need of him."
I was taught as a child that when you take something without asking for it, that is stealing.

Shall we keep the sabbath?
Exodus 20:8 "Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy."
Exodus 31:15 "Whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death."
Numbers 15:32,36 "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. . . . And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses."
vs.


Isaiah 1:13 "The new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity."
John 5:16 "And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day."
Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy-day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days."
Shall we make graven images?
Exodus 20:4 "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven . . . earth . . . water."
Leviticus 26:1 "Ye shall make ye no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone."
Deuteronomy 27:15 "Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image."
vs.


Exodus 25:18 "And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them."
I Kings 7:15,16,23,25 "For he [Solomon] cast two pillars of brass . . . and two chapiters of molten brass . . . And he made a molten sea . . . it stood upon twelve oxen . . . [and so on]"
Are we saved through works?
Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith . . . not of works."
Romans 3:20,28 "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight."
Galatians 2:16 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ."
vs.


James 2:24 "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."
Matthew 19:16-21 "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he [Jesus] said unto him . . . keep the commandments. . . . The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven."
The common defense here is that "we are saved by faith and works." But Paul said "not of works."

Should good works be seen?
Matthew 5:16 "Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works."
I Peter 2:12 "Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that . . . they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation."
vs.


Matthew 6:1-4 "Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them . . . that thine alms may be in secret."
Matthew 23:3,5 "Do not ye after their [Pharisees'] works. . . . all their works they do for to be seen of men."
Should we own slaves?
Leviticus 25:45-46 "Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, . . . and they shall be your possession . . . they shall be your bondmen forever."
Genesis 9:25 "And he [Noah] said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren."
Exodus 21:2,7 "If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. . . . And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the manservants do."
Joel 3:8 "And I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off: for the Lord hath spoken it."
Luke 12:47,48 [Jesus speaking] "And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes."
Colossians 3:22 "Servants, obey in all things your masters."
vs.


Isaiah 58:6 "Undo the heavy burdens . . . let the oppressed go free, . . . break every yoke."
Matthew 23:10 "Neither be ye called Masters: for one is your Master, even Christ."
Pro-slavery bible verses were cited by many churches in the South during the Civil War, and were used by some theologians in the Dutch Reformed Church to justify apartheid in South Africa. There are more pro-slavery verses than cited here.

Does God change his mind?
Malachi 3:6 "For I am the Lord; I change not."
Numbers 23:19 "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent."
Ezekiel 24:14 "I the Lord have spoken it: it shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not go back, neither will I spare, neither will I repent."
James 1:17 " . . . the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning."
vs.


Exodus 32:14 "And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people."
Genesis 6:6,7 "And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth . . . And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth . . . for it repenteth me that I have made him."
Jonah 3:10 ". . . and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not."
See also II Kings 20:1-7, Numbers 16:20-35, Numbers 16:44-50.

See Genesis 18:23-33, where Abraham gets God to change his mind about the minimum number of righteous people in Sodom required to avoid destruction, bargaining down from fifty to ten. (An omniscient God must have known that he was playing with Abraham's hopes for mercy--he destroyed the city anyway.)

Are we punished for our parents' sins?
Exodus 20:5 "For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation." (Repeated in Deuteronomy 5:9)
Exodus 34:6-7 " . . . The Lord God, merciful and gracious, . . . that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation."
I Corinthians 15:22 "For as in Adam all die, . . ."
vs.


Ezekiel 18:20 "The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father."
Deuteronomy 24:16 "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."
Is God good or evil?
Psalm 145:9 "The Lord is good to all."
Deuteronomy 32:4 "a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he."
vs.


Isaiah 45:7 "I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things." See "Out of Context" for more on Isaiah 45:7.
Lamentations 3:38 "Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?"
Jeremiah 18:11 "Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you."
Ezekiel 20:25,26 "I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live. And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the Lord."
Does God tempt people?
James 1:13 "Let no man say . . . I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man."
vs.


Genesis 22:1 "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham."
Is God peaceable?
Romans 15:33 "The God of peace."
Isaiah 2:4 ". . . and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."
vs.


Exodus 15:3 "The Lord is a man of war."
Joel 3:9-10 "Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up: Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong."
Was Jesus peaceable?
John 14:27 "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you."
Acts 10:36 "The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ."
Luke 2:14 " . . . on earth peace, good will toward men."
vs.


Matthew 10:34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."
Luke 22:36 "Then said he unto them, . . . he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
Was Jesus trustworthy?
John 8:14 "Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true."
vs.


John 5:31 "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true."
"Record" and "witness" in the above verses are the same Greek word (martyria).

Shall we call people names?
Matthew 5:22 "Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire." [Jesus speaking]
vs.


Matthew 23:17 "Ye fools and blind." [Jesus speaking]
Psalm 14:1 "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."
Has anyone seen God?
John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time."
Exodus 33:20 "Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live."
John 6:46 "Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God [Jesus], he hath seen the Father."
I John 4:12 "No man hath seen God at any time."
vs.


Genesis 32:30 "For I have seen God face to face."
Exodus 33:11 "And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend."
Isaiah 6:1 "In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple."
Job 42:5 "I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee."
How many Gods are there?
Deuteronomy 6:4 "The Lord our God is one Lord."
vs.


Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image."
Genesis 3:22 "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man has become as one of us, to know good and evil."
I John 5:7 "And there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
It does no good to claim that "Let us" is the magisterial "we." Such usage implies inclusivity of all authorities under a king's leadership. Invoking the Trinity solves nothing because such an idea is more contradictory than the problem it attempts to solve.

Are we all sinners?
Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."
Romans 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one."
Psalm 14:3 "There is none that doeth good, no, not one."
vs.


Job 1:1 "There was a man . . . who name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright."
Genesis 7:1 "And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation."
Luke 1:6 "And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless."
How old was Ahaziah?
II Kings 8:26 "Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign."
vs.


II Chronicles 22:2 "Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign."
Should we swear an oath?
Numbers 30:2 "If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath . . . he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth."
Genesis 21:22-24,31 " . . . swear unto me here by God that thou wilt not deal falsely with me . . . And Abraham said, I will swear. . . . Wherefore he called that place Beersheba ["well of the oath"]; because there they sware both of them."
Hebrews 6:13-17 "For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself . . . for men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife. Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath."
See also Genesis 22:15-19, Genesis 31:53, and Judges 11:30-39.

vs.


Matthew 5:34-37 "But I say unto you, swear not at all; neither by heaven . . . nor by the earth . . . . Neither shalt thou swear by thy head . . . . But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."
James 5:12 ". . . swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation."
When was Jesus crucified?
Mark 15:25 "And it was the third hour, and they crucified him."
vs.


John 19:14-15 "And about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! But they cried out . . . crucify him."
It is an ad hoc defense to claim that there are two methods of reckoning time here. It has never been shown that this is the case.

Shall we obey the law?
I Peter 2:13 "Submit yourself to every ordinance of man . . . to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors."
Matthew 22:21 "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's." See also Romans 13:1,7 and Titus 3:1.
vs.


Acts 5:29 "We ought to obey God rather then men."
How many animals on the ark?
Genesis 6:19 "And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark."
Genesis 7:8-9 "Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah."
Genesis 7:15 "And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life."
vs.


Genesis 7:2 "Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female."
Were women and men created equal?
Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
vs.


Genesis 2:18,23 "And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. . . . And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."
Were trees created before humans?
Genesis 1:12-31 "And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: . . . And the evening and the morning were the third day. . . . And God said, Let us make man in our image . . . And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."
vs.


Genesis 2:5-9 "And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. .Ê.ÊAnd the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground . . . And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food."
Did Michal have children?
II Samuel 6:23 "Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death."
vs.


II Samuel 21:8 "But the king took the two sons of Rizpah . . . and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul."
How many stalls did Solomon have?
I Kings 4:26 "And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen."
vs.


II Chronicles 9:25 "And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen."
Did Paul's men hear a voice?
Acts 9:7 "And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man."
vs.


Acts 22:9 "And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me."
(For more detail on this contradiction, with a linguistic analysis of the Greek words, see "Did Paul's Men Hear A Voice?" by Dan Barker, published in the The Skeptical Review, 1994 #1)

Is God omnipotent?
Jeremiah 32:27 "Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh: is there anything too hard for me?
Matthew 19:26 "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."
vs.


Judges 1:19 "And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."
Does God live in light?
I Timothy 6:15-16 " . . . the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach . . ."
James 1:17 " . . . the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning."
John 12:35 "Then Jesus saith unto them, . . . he that walketh in darkness knoweth not wither he goeth."
Job 18:18 "He [the wicked] shall be driven from light into darkness, and chased out of the world."
Daniel 2:22 "He [God] knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him." See also Psalm 143:3, II Corinthians 6:14, and Hebrews 12:18-22.
vs.


I Kings 8:12 "Then spake Solomon, The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness." (Repeated in II Chronicles 6:1)
II Samuel 22:12 "And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies."
Psalm 18:11 "He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies."
Psalm 97:1-2 "The Lord reigneth; let the earth rejoice . . . clouds and darkness are round about him."
Does God accept human sacrifice?
Deuteronomy 12:31 "Thou shalt not do so unto the Lord thy God: for every abomination to the Lord, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods."
vs.


Genesis 22:2 "And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of."
Exodus 22:29 "For thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors; the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me."
Judges 11:30-39 "And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the Lord, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hand, Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the Lord's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering. So Jephthah passed over unto the children of Ammon . . . and the Lord delivered them into his hands. . . . And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: . . . And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed."
II Samuel 21:8-14 "But the king [David] took the two sons of Rizpah . . . and the five sons of Michal . . . and he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them in the hill before the Lord: and they fell all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest . . . And after that God was intreated for the land."
Hebrews 10:10-12 " . . . we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ . . . But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God."
I Corinthians 5:7 " . . . For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us."
Who was Joseph's father?
Matthew 1:16 "And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus."
vs.


Luke 3:23 "And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli."


User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1503 times:

I agree MD-90.

The fact of the matter remains that the Bible is accurate, historically, and it's one of the best books around. All the books of the Bible, despite having been written by different people inspired by the Holy Ghost, are very harminous and flow very well.



Proud to be an Assyrian!
User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1497 times:

Also, Md-90 congratulations on reading the whole Bible. It can be hard at times, but it's worth it! The fact that is doesn't contradict itself, despite what some people say, is incredible!



Proud to be an Assyrian!
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8494 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1493 times:

Bizjets, you're going to have to be a little more obvious than that. None of your points directly contradicts one another. They may be confusing, like the fact that God, who is peaceful, can also wage war, but is there a "Thou shalt not kill," and later a "Thou may kill whom thou wilt?" Nope.

Should we kill? No, the Bible says not to kill unjustly. Murder and war are two different things.

Should we tell lies? Clearly it says not to lie, but that God has forced people to lie before, and to believe those lies.

Should we steal? No. But the "spoils of war" are different than plain theft. Adn do you really think that the men were stealing that colt? GOD MADE EVERYTHING! That colt was His, and He was nice enough to let the "owners" of the colt have use of it while it was on the earth.

Your keeping the Sabbath argument just doesn't seem to make any point, really.

But so on and so forth. I have finals next week and I don't have time to go through and discuss all of your points, which I'll bet you got from some atheist website and didn't come up with all by yourself, but if you have any specific verses that you think show contradictions, any that you truly feel makes the Bible contradict itself, ask me and if I don't know the answer I'll ask some of my friends.





User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1490 times:

The Bible is accurate? Sure, depending on how you want to interpret what you read. Just like Nostradamus is accurate, depending on the very loose interpretation. Why the different versions (King James version, etc). While I would like to believe, its hard not to see the bible as a great work of fiction as well.

User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8494 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1472 times:

The great webpage below can answer your questions as to why, out of all the Bible versions, the King James is the Word of God, translated into English, without error.



User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8494 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1466 times:

What the heck? Airliners.net didn't link my link, I guess.

http://www.chick.com/reading/books/158/158cont.asp

Not only does the Bible not contradict itself, but it also has never once been proven wrong. Scholars have thought before that they had previously successfully attacked the Bible and won, but they were later shown to be wrong. Case in point: once, so called Bible scholars thought that Luke must've been wrong, because in Luke 2 it mentions that Cyrenius was governor of Syria when Caesar Augustus ruled. Well, everybody knew that Cyrenius had ruled at a different time period, so the Bible was wrong. Until a few years ago, when a coin was discovered with Cyrenius on it, and it was dated to the same time period that Luke described. Turns out there were TWO Cyreniuses in history, and that Luke was indeed correct.


User currently offlineBizJets From France, joined Jun 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1461 times:

MD-90, Marco

No offense but your failure to see the faults of the bible are the same ones that lead to the Islamic extremism we see in the middle east. Its called denial. And yes, I am a Catholic who goes to church every Sunday. And yes, I have read the Bible cover to cover.


User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1453 times:

No offense but your failure to see the faults of the bible

I don't believe that the Bible has inaccuracies. If I believed it did, I wouldn't believe in it.

are the same ones that lead to the Islamic extremism we see in the middle east.

Excuse me? Are you saying because I believe that the Bible is accurate and because I uphold the teachings of Christ I'm a terrorist?

Its called denial.

You're just seriously not making sense now...

And yes, I am a Catholic who goes to church every Sunday. And yes, I have read the Bible cover to cover.

Excellent and good for you. I go to Church and I'm Christian as well. As a Christian though, I have my doubts, however I don't think the Bible has faults.



Proud to be an Assyrian!
User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1440 times:

Of course there's some descepencies. Keep in mind that the accounts were by several different people (as mentioned), and any descrepencies of minutia may be attributed to differing accounts, information, speculation, opinions and even mistakes by translators or authors themselves. I think the author of this post is saying the overall historical premise is the same through all accounts. I suspect you can find the same types of minor descepencies in details in various history books regarding WWII, but the big picture is all the same.

Also, for anyone that hasn't actually read the Bible, reading snippets out of context is a loose way to gauge on an overall document. The Bible itself is a great resource for this rather than copy/paste-jobs from the Internet.



"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 11, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1429 times:

Marco: I don't believe that the Bible has inaccuracies. If I believed it did, I wouldn't believe in it.

There´s a huge difference between having some inaccuracies (or even mistakes) and being wrong on all counts.

It takes an increasing level of denial to believe in the 100% accuracy of the bible; Still, there is undeniable value in it as well. And that value is not destroyed by misconceptions and plain ignorance that was common at the time the bible was written.

A person does not deserve damnation for a misstep; And this book does not deserve to be disregarded as a source of wisdom just because some of its authors made mistakes.

Things just aren´t that simple.


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8494 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1420 times:

Composed by Haldor Lillenas in 1917, The Bible Stands:

The Bible stands like a rock undaunted
’Mid the raging storms of time;
Its pages burn with the truth eternal,
And they glow with a light sublime.

Refrain

The Bible stands though the hills may tumble,
It will firmly stand when the earth shall crumble;
I will plant my feet on its firm foundation,
For the Bible stands.

The Bible stands like a mountain towering
Far above the works of men;
Its truth by none ever was refuted,
And destroy it they never can.

Refrain

The Bible stands and it will forever,
When the world has passed away;
By inspiration it has been given,
All its precepts I will obey.

Refrain

The Bible stands every test we give it,
For its Author is divine;
By grace alone I expect to live it,
And to prove and to make it mine.

Refrain


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 13, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1408 times:

MD-90: The Bible stands and it will forever,

Yep. Exactly like all those "eternal" doctrines of those ancient religions nobody remembers any more...  Insane


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8494 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1398 times:

Sure...we don't remember those "eternal doctrines of ancient religions," but we sure as heck know Christianity.

User currently offlineSKYSERVICE_330 From Canada, joined Sep 2000, 1391 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1396 times:

I think we all have to remember that the bible, like a lot of other books is always interpreted differently by each reader, and thus no one is right or wrong. It is all based on interpretation.

User currently offlineLubcha132 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2776 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1393 times:

well as a jew i believe in the "old" (don't start a fire here) Testament, and i well, i am amazed at it. one of the 13 Principles of Faith written by Maimonides (Rambam) is that it came straight from G-d and was written by Moses. It never contradicts itself, and there are hints to other parts of the Bible in it. It is an excellent role model to live in and it shows that everyone is human, just like the Patriarchs and great figures, and there is no perfection, even in Moses, the humblest of all men.

I am a big fan of G-d. Personally, i think that he provides for me (well for everyone) and he can just as easily take it away. Also, everything bad that happens is for a good reason. For example, we just read in these past weeks' portions that are read on Shabbos that Joseph was thrown into a pit by his brothers and sold into slavery in Egypt. He gets thrown into jail, there's a whole big story that leads to the bondage of the jewish people, but what comes out of it? G-d rescues the nation and gives us a land, as promised, under the direction of Moses (and later Joshua).


User currently offlineSleekjet From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2045 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1392 times:

Yes, there are areas that are available to be interpreted differently. But most will assert that there are essentials which must be adhered to. Like the virgin birth. Like Jesus dying on the cross to remove our sins. Like the second coming of Christ.

I applaud MD-90 and Marco for their spiritual insight and discipline, and for being "able to give an answer for the hope that is within".



II Cor. 4:17-18
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8494 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1390 times:

That's interesting, Lubcha132. My 12th grade Sunday school teacher also told us that the directions for living our life could be found in Matthew chapters 5 through 7.

User currently offlineATCT From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2223 posts, RR: 39
Reply 19, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1380 times:

I give MD-90 a hand here. We need more people like you to stand up and defend the faith under times of trouble and to "stir the pot" in times of peace. I pray for you KROC and Lubcha132, that you will come to know Jesus Christ as your lord and savior. I myself am an Ordained deacon the presbyterian church, USA. If you have any questions regarding the faith, or if you would like to know how you to can have jesus im yoru life, feel free to contact me.

In His Service,

ATCT



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlineMBMBOS From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1375 times:

And not only do you pray for KROC and Lubcha132, you announce that you are doing so on a airliners.net.

How very sanctimonious of you!



User currently offlineDe727ups From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 814 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1371 times:

Interesting thread.

I'm a strong believer in Christianity.

At the same time....I've always struggled with certain things in the bible. In my way of thinking....the principle of and eye for an eye (old testament), as in if you kill, you deserve to be killed....and the principles of Jesus's teachings in Matthew 5....basically peace, love, and forgiveness....are contradictory.

I was raised in a church which believes in peace....in which the concept of war is wrong. I work with many who claim to be Christian who not only were in the military at one time but who believe that killing the enemy is the Lord's work.

I decided that I don't have the answer for what is right. Each person, within the bounds of their own beliefs in God, Christianity, and the bible, must decide what is right for them based on their own interpretation of the bible and scripture....and based on their own walk with the Lord. I know God will sort it all out in the end....we can only do what we think is best.


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8494 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1369 times:

Taken from a "about the author" section of a certain Bible (I don't know which one):

The Author - God has been known and recognized as the supreme expert on such issues as life, death, forgiveness, and truth. He works as a teacher, theologian, physician, father, son, counselor, and many other things - all simultaneously without taking a break. His timeless classic, The Bible, has been translated into thousands of languages and read by people throughout the centuries from all walks of life. God works out of his home in heaven and can be reached simply


User currently offlineAviatsiya From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1361 times:

As Homer says, God is my favourite fictional character.

Although I do not believe in the bible being the word of god, or anything religious, I would defend people's right to believe that, so long as it doesn't infringe on my life.

How many religious people would do likewise in a reverse role?

Also, for anyone that hasn't actually read the Bible, reading snippets out of context is a loose way to gauge on an overall document.

Yet, the author of this thread has done this with the Q'uran. Why is that?


User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1349 times:

As Homer says, God is my favourite fictional character.

Ok...

Although I do not believe in the bible being the word of god, or anything religious, I would defend people's right to believe that, so long as it doesn't infringe on my life.

I agree.

How many religious people would do likewise in a reverse role?

Lots would, unless you'd like to generalize.

Also, for anyone that hasn't actually read the Bible, reading snippets out of context is a loose way to gauge on an overall document.

Yet, the author of this thread has done this with the Q'uran. Why is that?


And why are you defending that? What's it to you?




Proud to be an Assyrian!
25 AirT85 : ATCT-If you could please e-mail me it would be appreciated: rockerjed@hotmail.com Thank-you Tony
26 MD-90 : It's because it took me a year to read the Bible, and I don't have time to spare to read the Quran. I'm not opposed to reading it, I just don't have t
27 Aviatsiya : Marco I don't like to generalise, and the fact is, a big proportion of the supposed "Christian" population will not let other people lives their lives
28 ADG : Actually the statements above on the bible are inaccurate, even in the most religious of terms. The bible was not *written* in all those places by all
29 MD-90 : ADG, Bizjets didn't have to have a lot of time on his hands. He just did a copy and paste job from some atheist or anti-Christian website. Are you try
30 Beefmoney : And here we go again.....ADG: Evolution is NOT proven, you just like to say that it is to make people that are "on the fence" think so. Scientist are
31 777236ER : The only argument from creationists: evolution isn't proven therefore it didn't happen.
32 Ctbarnes : The only argument from creationists: evolution isn't proven therefore it didn't happen. Conversely, the only argument from the Evolutionists is: God i
33 MD-90 : Evolution. There are 6 kinds of evolution, and guess what? The first 5 have to be taken on faith. Only the last one has ever been observed. 1. Cosmic
34 777236ER : And as far as the wild theory that gluons in atoms can explain evolution, well, how does something that's never been seen, measured, or even known to
35 Beefmoney : The only argument from athiests: creation isn't proven therefore it didn't happen.
36 777236ER : No, evolutionists have a theory that best fits the facts. Religion, by its very nature, was dreamed up by people scared about the universe around them
37 Ctbarnes : I acclaim you as the divine Milieu, charged with creative power, as the ocean stirred by the spirit, as the clay molded and infused with life by the i
38 ADG : Are you trying to say that a person named Isaiah didn't write the book of Isaiah? That Paul didn't write his 13 books in the New Testament? That Luke
39 MD-90 : Guess what? Peking Man was supposedly 500,000 years old, but all evidence of the "find" has disappeared and cannot be examined today.........hmmm. ADG
40 We're Nuts : The question is whether you are content to chalk all of life's mysteries up to "god", or if you have the drive and determination to actually find out
41 Alpha 1 : MD-90, you are REALLY out there in your beliefs. I will defend you to the grave your right to have them, but I certianly can critisize them and disagr
42 Ctbarnes : ADG, My statement regarding evolutionists was supposed to be more sarcastic than factual. Sorry if you misconstrued. My point was supposed to be that
43 Positive rate : I think you have to keep an open mind about the Bible and not take everything you read in it literally as some people do. Science says that the univer
44 Positive rate : I think if we do find any other kind of life on other planets then this will really help the Evolution theory out. If we find say organisms of some ki
45 Paulc : The world would be a lot more peaceful if religion did not exist.
46 Jaysit : I'm curious as to why all those animals on the ark (including the humans, I suppose) didn't come down with some virus of some sort (assuming that all
47 ADG : Lucy is the oldest human known, right? She's supposedly 2.9 million years old. Well, Richard Leakey found a normal human skull buried under rock dated
48 MD-90 : Alright, one last thing before I bow out of this debate. Paulc, I honestly have to disagree with you. The world would be much worse without Christiani
49 Jwenting : Interestingly also, the deformed skeleton found to be suffering from arthritis before death was found in France. The original Neanderthal Man was foun
50 Paulc : I was not meaning 1 religion - I meant every religion. Anyway what evidence can you provide to support your statement that the world would be better o
51 Mx5_boy : Bible = book of lies, book of filth, book of hatred, But I guess it's how each person interprets it. But it is just a *story*. Fiction. Dean R. Koontz
52 Krushny : Some guys here who say the Bible is absolutely coherent, explain me Sanson's episode in the Book of Judges. As I understand it, its message is that i
53 Jaysit : ruth may have been a heroine, and the cult of the Madonna, notwithstanding, its the historical and enlightened movement away from Biblical injunctions
54 707cmf : Regarding the evolution theory (which by the way, Darwin called 'Transformism', not Evolution), and big ban, and other things atheists say us Christia
55 Marco : Since you requested Scotty I won't cut and paste. I don't like to generalise, and the fact is, a big proportion of the supposed "Christian" population
56 MD-90 : 707cnf, you know, that's kind of what I've always thought. The Big Bang seems sort of like God's style, actually. Paulc, you do not know how much you
57 ADG : Mx5, I *love* Dean Koontz, much better than Stephen King! The fact remains that evolution is a theory. I'm not completely discrediting it, because fra
58 Jaysit : MD-90: I'm glad you have a more progressive interpretation of the Bible as far as women are concerned. Needless to say, there are far too many Christi
59 Lehpron : "All the books of the Bible, despite having been written by different people inspired by the Holy Ghost, are very harmonious and flow very well. " Wai
60 Hepkat : If you take offense to the fearing the Lord part, well, I fear the Lord. I am afraid of Him, sometimes, mainly when I sin and I disobey God and I know
61 MD-90 : Lephron, God used people to write the Bible. He didn't just hand a copy of it to someone one day. There are many, many books that did not make it into
62 Advancedkid : Hi MD-90, To be honest, I dont think it's okay to compare yourself or us humans with G-d, our Creator. We have been created by Him and guess what..? W
63 Hepkat : Hepkat, I fear God because I know that compared to Him, I am a dirty scumbag incapable of anything holy. God knows this as well, and what's so awesome
64 MD-90 : The thing is, the Bible also says that even our best, most holy actions, in God's eyes, aren't holy at all. That's why good works can't get you into H
65 Hepkat : The thing is, the Bible also says that even our best, most holy actions, in God's eyes, aren't holy at all. Because most often even our best acts of g
66 Ctbarnes : and I would add: ...as God unconditionally loves us. Charles, SJ
67 Paulc : MD90, am not in the US so what is your point ? The UK is not the 'god fearing usa' fortunately - religion plays no part in my (and many others) lives
68 Post contains images Mx5_boy : ADG, My absolute favourite book of Dean's is *Watchers*, I have read it probably 20 times in the 12 years (I think) I have had it. He's a brilliant wr
69 ADG : Karma Sutra - now that is an interesting read. Why are all the good ones gay? :D VH-ADG
70 Marco : You cannot discredit it as there is more proof of evolution than of god. However, as you say neither have been absolutely proven. I suspect in time th
71 MD-90 : Oops, you're right, I should've check first. My bad, paulc. It's sad, really...the site of one of the greatest revivals that ever was...and look at th
72 Marco : Marco, you know I've done a bad job. I shouldn't have let my temper get to me. I just get so upset when people don't understand Christianity. I haven'
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