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Sen Patty Murray "Osama Is A Good Thing"  
User currently offlineGalaxy5 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2034 posts, RR: 24
Posted (11 years 8 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1925 times:

Senator Patty Murray spoke at the Columbia River High School in Vancouver, Washington about the good things that Osama bin Laden has done. She said the following to students during the week of December 15, 2002 at Columbia River High School:

"Osama Bin Laden has been very, very effective. Um...He...We got to ask, 'Why is this man so popular around the world? Why are people so supportive of him in...in many countries?'

Well, he...uh...has been in many countries that are riddled with poverty. Uh...People don't have homes, no sewers, no roads, no schools, no health care, no..uh... facilities just to make sure that their daily lives were ok. He's been out in these countries for decades building schools, building roads, building infrastructure, building day care facilities, building health care facilities and the people are extremely grateful. He's made their life better. Uh... We have not done that. We haven't been out in any of these countries helping them build their infrastructure."


Below is an audio excerpt of her speech

http://www.twreport.com/pmurray/pattymurray4.ram



"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 1, posted (11 years 8 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1905 times:

Interesting!
And you know what? She's right!! That's exactly how Bin Laden works. Even if some people here on this forum deny it: Support for extremists is born from extreme poverty, the sort of poverty that makes you think you might not survive the very next day. That's why he went to Afghanistan, one of the poorest countries in the world, Sudan dito...
Now as a bleeding-heart liberal (and a European one, too, and worst of all, I love to fly on Airbuses, on Boeings, too, but that would destroy the stereotype, now, wouldn't it?)), I don't have any idea who Patty Murray is, and I'm not even interested who that might be, or if said Senator is pro or antisemitic or buddhist or rightwing or a communist, but the analysis of the situation is absolutely correct.
Sorry if I sound somewhat sarcastic, that has nothing to do with you Galaxy, but this thread will become another playing ground of fanatics who believe that bombing down these countries is the answer: IT IS NOT!! Remember, the fanatics and terrorists will survive any such attack, and then...what next? Another September 11th...

Happy New Year anyway

Andreas

btw: I'm not sure if the quote in your topic is correct, but I don't think anybody would call "Osama a good thing"!



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 8 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1905 times:

Unfortunately, while Ms. Murray fits the role of suburban Soccer mom perfectly, she has always suffered from "foot in the mouth-itis." However, her remarks have been twisted out by the title of your posting. What she intended to say was that Osama and the larger Islamic fundamentalist movement has waged a very effective PR campaign over the years by building schools, health clinics, orphanages, etc - AND have ensured that news about their social achievements have been fully dissipated across many Islamic countries. Thus, when they come under attack from the West, they can deflect criticisms by showcasing their madrasas et al.

User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (11 years 8 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1881 times:

Furthermore, Hamas does the same thing in the West Bank by providing the infrastructure (homes, schools, sanitation, etc.) that the Palistinian Authority was supposed to provide but quite seemed to get around to...

Charles, SJ




The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineBen From Switzerland, joined Aug 1999, 1391 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (11 years 8 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1875 times:

Osama is a good thing for the USA too...

Your industry is receiving a much-needed boost with all the new military orders, the public have a new hate "icon" to be focused on, and the US secret police now have the excuse they have been lacking since the collapse of the USSR to operate with impunity. Does anyone think we could be going to war with Iraq so easily without the 'war on terror' backdrop?

Perfect! oh yeah, and Dubya can deflect everyones attention away from how stupid he really is.

Anyone seen the oil price lately? damn I wish I had kept my BP shares.

Seems like Dubya couldnt have asked for a better enemy than Osama. If they had killed him early on when they could have, they would be missing out on a lot of these benefits.

..and when another Sept 11 happens, you and I should be horrified, disgusted, angry, and sad...... but we shouldnt be surprised!


User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5028 posts, RR: 44
Reply 5, posted (11 years 8 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1871 times:

She's right. Reading this, I immediately thought of another criminal, who worked much in the same way in the thirties. Hitler was his name. Chilling comparison.

User currently offlineWe're Nuts From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (11 years 8 months 4 days ago) and read 1854 times:

Well I have to step up and defend my Senator here. She is absolutely right. We can never combat Osama's form of terrorism unless we understand it first. This of course flies in the face of Bush's "kill everything" plan. Maybe the next president will actually try to make friends in the Middle East, rather than pissing more people off.


Dear moderators: No.
User currently offlineJcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 7, posted (11 years 8 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1846 times:

Jaysit, she said what she said. By your logic, I could tell you that Trent Lott meant that if Strom Thurmond was elected taxes wouldnt be as high today. Isnt it a bit hypocritical when the liberal press is allowed to clarify Patty Murray's speech, and yet a Republican like Trent Lott gets run out of town for saying something equally insulting and degrading. How would you like it if you were a relative of someone who died on 9/11 and you heard someone singing the praises of OBL and the great things he has done.

According to the We're Nuts Doctrine on Foreign Policy, America with a Republican president can never do anything right. Everything America does is always wrong. Yet I'm sure you were singing Clinton's praises when he sent the military into Mogadishu, or lit up an aspirin factory in Sudan.

Also Patty Murrays arguements are also factually incorrect, the humanitarian support that Osama bin Laden has given to Afghanistan is very little. Hey, Patty, I thought you were all about womens rights? Did you somehow forget that under the OBL supported/funded Taliban, women werent even allowed to show their skin, let alone go to school...I dont think that they even got federally funded abortions either (gasp). Why dont you read a little, ask your average Afghani if the nation regressed or progressed under the Taliban. This man has done nothing but murder innocent civilians in the name of "Allah". I find it awful that some of you are sitting here defending him.



America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5028 posts, RR: 44
Reply 8, posted (11 years 8 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1833 times:

Jcs17,

I find it awful that some of you are sitting here defending him.

Uhm... Are you reading a different thread than the rest of us? Can you say who exactly is defending OBL here, cause I don't see any...


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 8 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1818 times:

..By your logic, I could tell you that Trent Lott meant that if Strom Thurmond was elected taxes wouldnt be as high today...

As usual, you don't get the point. That is a ludicrous analogy, in part because Patty Murray and Trent Lott can never be compared, and in part because the conservatism of Trent Lott and OBL both in their own ways set back civilization in their parts of the world by decades.

And as far as Strom is concerned, he was never in favor of lowering taxes in 1948. He was, however, in favor of lynching blacks and forcing them to stand behind "colored only" placards.

I also think that as a leader who has always supported Women's rights, and who spent years speaking up against the Taliban's virtual enslavement of women, Patty Murray needs no lectures from you. She and I and you know that OBL never did a damn for the wretched enslaved women of Afghanistan - but he and his Islamic fundamentalist friends always made a big production each time any madrasa was built, or when the sewers in Kabul's Taliban neighborhoods were lined, or when a grant - however, small - was made to a health clinic. The people who were the beneficiaries of such manipulated largesse were largely those who could call the shots, or those who supported those who called the shots.

So .... a new year is about to begin in a few days. Go back to school and get an education. A real one. It really does fire the old grey cells. Yours seem to be calcified - and at a very young age too.

Happy New Year ! And may your grades be good.



User currently offlineJcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 10, posted (11 years 8 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1799 times:

As usual, you don't get the point. That is a ludicrous analogy, in part because Patty Murray and Trent Lott can never be compared, and in part because the conservatism of Trent Lott and OBL both in their own ways set back civilization in their parts of the world by decades.

Why cant they be compared? Both were absolutely idiotic statements (unlike you, I even came out and said that Lott was retarded for making a comment like that)... Is it because blacks have more of a right to be upset than those who lost loved ones in the Trade Center? Trent Lott set back civilization? There you go again with your radical liberal theories...what about the car factories and the casinos he helped bring to Mississippi that provides a source of income and work to many lower/middle class families. I am not saying that Trent Lott is at the forefront of racial sensitivity, far from it, but you also have to look at the good that he has performed for the people of Mississippi. The good he has brought to his constituents far outweighed the comment he made (as awful as it is).

So what if Osama bin Laden built a couple clinics and fixed the sewers, I'm sure Hitler and Stalin did the same thing. But in those cases like bin Laden, the bad outweighs the good by a wide margin in those cases.

also think that as a leader who has always supported Women's rights, and who spent years speaking up against the Taliban's virtual enslavement of women, Patty Murray needs no lectures from you.

Maybe she does...after all she is the person who proclaimed that he built new schools. Too bad girls couldnt attend... Its a totally hypocritical statement considering her stance on women's rights.

So .... a new year is about to begin in a few days. Go back to school and get an education. A real one. It really does fire the old grey cells. Yours seem to be calcified - and at a very young age too.

As usual, Jaysit has to result to hurling insults at those he doesnt agree with.




America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineOvelix From Greece, joined Aug 1999, 639 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (11 years 8 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1796 times:

Jcs17

Read again by opening your eyes. Opening your mind would also help. She did not say that OBL was a good man or gave education to women. She said that OBL was the ONLY person that gave those poor people the impression that SOMEONE cares. Many of them followed him.

Certain members here call for "destroy them all" war and don't have time to investigate the deeper causes of this type of terrorism while a US Senator makes us all think of WHY all this is happening.

Kostas





User currently offlineWe're Nuts From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (11 years 8 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1790 times:

Hold on there Jcs17, your mouth is writing checks your brain can't cash. You accuse me of hating Republicans -- wrong! Being Republican has nothing to do with it. Case in point, I love John McCain. I do however take issue with "typical" Conservatives, a group Bush is most definitely a part of.

And nothing Murray said was insulting, you just don't like it because it's true. America needs to understand her enemies. Admit it, you'd love for the Senate to be filled with yes-men who get their rocks off on everything your president says. Well I hate to disappoint you, but that isn't how things work. And when one voice of reason can finally be heard above all the "Hail Bush"s, you jump to shoot it down. What are you afraid of, Jcs? Are you afraid that maybe a Liberal approach is the correct one? It sure seems that way.

We're here, we're right, get used to it!



Dear moderators: No.
User currently offlineJcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 13, posted (11 years 8 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1779 times:

Ovelix:
Read again by opening your eyes. Opening your mind would also help. She did not say that OBL was a good man or gave education to women. She said that OBL was the ONLY person that gave those poor people the impression that SOMEONE cares. Many of them followed him.

To you, opening my mind, would be disavowing everything I believe in to say what is popular on these boards...that America and George W. Bush is wrong, as usual. I do not believe that to be the case, and I strongly disagree with Sen. Murray's statements, I feel that giving this kind of praise for OBL ("He's been out in these countries for decades building schools, building roads, building infrastructure, building day care facilities, building health care facilities and the people are extremely grateful.") is extremely unwarranted and unfair to those who lost loved ones. Ovelix, I know youre not from America, so I dont expect you to know Patty Murray, or her issues, but she has been overwhelming outspoken about womens rights, I feel that her comments were very hypocritical, when the Taliban has in effect kept women out of society since they have taken over.

Certain members here call for "destroy them all" war and don't have time to investigate the deeper causes of this type of terrorism while a US Senator makes us all think of WHY all this is happening.

I dont know why you think I am in favor of "destroying them all," I am in favor of killing terrorists, the Taliban, and Al-Qaeda. The death, destruction, and their virulent teachings have set the Arab world back. Its is not America's fault, please, we are not the problem here, the problem is within. Militant Muslims have minds like homeless people; they will never blame themselves for the problems they are experiencing, it instead is everyone else's fault. Instead of taking the blame, they continue to point the finger at other's for their problems. Now we are forced to intervene, as thousands of innocent lives have been destroyed by a coward, who refuses to face the problems that continue to plague Muslim society and its leaders.

We're Nuts:
Case in point, I love John McCain. I do however take issue with "typical"

Conservatives, a group Bush is most definitely a part of.

John McCain is hardly a Republican.

And nothing Murray said was insulting, you just don't like it because it's true. America needs to understand her enemies.

We understand the enemy, we have yet to conquer it. And as I have said before, America is not the enemy, our policies are just and fair.

And nothing Murray said was insulting, you just don't like it because it's true. America needs to understand her enemies. Admit it, you'd love for the Senate to be filled with yes-men who get their rocks off on everything your president says. Well I hate to disappoint you, but that isn't how things work. And when one voice of reason can finally be heard above all the "Hail Bush"s, you jump to shoot it down. What are you afraid of, Jcs? Are you afraid that maybe a Liberal approach is the correct one? It sure seems that way.

I took offense to it. She basically glorified a man who killed 3,000 people. I dont care what the guy did, to glorify him would be like saying Hitler wasnt a bad guy, he was right in some ways...Now what causes Hitler to act the way he did...its America's fault. Trust me, the liberal approach will not solve anything, the liberal approach is...do nothing...blame ourselves. We did nothing for 8 years and allowed bin Laden to build up his arsenal, train terrorists, and allow a soveirgn nation to fall to the Taliban, thus creating a haven where terrorists could thrive.

We're here, we're right, get used to it!

Thats not what the American people thought in November....





America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineWe're Nuts From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (11 years 8 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1777 times:

John McCain is hardly a Republican.

Ah, I see, only Conservatives are good enough to be Republican. You know, that sort of elitism isn't going to help you in '04. And you wonder why Jeffords left.  Insane

We understand the enemy, we have yet to conquer it. And as I have said before, America is not the enemy, our policies are just and fair.

No one is calling America the enemy. Where do you get this stuff??

I took offense to it. She basically glorified a man who killed 3,000 people. I dont care what the guy did, to glorify him would be like saying Hitler wasnt a bad guy, he was right in some ways...Now what causes Hitler to act the way he did...its America's fault.

He murdered people, but do you think there was a reason behind the act other than "he is pure evil"? Hmmm? Your kind of thinking is exactly what got us enemies in the Middle East. That Anglesist "we're right, you're wrong" arrogance causes more problems than it fixes. Maybe you'll realize that after the next attack. Until then, demonize away, my friend. That's our foreign policy now, isn't it? To denounce every nation that doesn't fall before us? Gee, that's bound to make us new friends.  Insane

We did nothing for 8 years and allowed bin Laden to build up his arsenal, train terrorists, and allow a soveirgn nation to fall to the Taliban, thus creating a haven where terrorists could thrive.

Well since you are taking an obvious shot at Clinton, let me remind you who got us these enemies. Bingo - Reagan, your God.

Thats not what the American people thought in November....

The Republicans did nothing to earn their victory. It was a Democrat loss, and it will not happen again (provided we get some things straightened out, of course).



Dear moderators: No.
User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 15, posted (11 years 8 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1767 times:

I'm somewhat amazed the way this thread goes. Do we have a turning point here or do the aviation right-wingers still have a hangover??

Anway jcs17...what the hell are you talking about??
Sure Ovelix is European, and so am I, and I didn't know either who this lady is, but who cares anyway??? It was her assessment of the way Bin Laden works that was correct, and I'm still not sure if Galaxy did quote her correctly by saying she mentioned "the good things Osama has done"..unfortunately I can't open the soundfile, but I do have grave doubts that a US senator would say anything so downright stupid!! Nonetheless she's right..that's the way most of those terrorist organisations work. Schools, something that the poor people of Afghanistan and the Pakistan border land could never ever afford, and it's great for al-quaida too: They get their terrorist rookies for free, little kids that can be brainwashed easily...how do you think the Taliban could take over the whole country without support of the people???

You have to see the way people in absolute poverty live: They give a flying you-know-what about moral, about doing things right or wrong, they are only interested in where to get their next meal for themselves and their families, and if it comes from the world's top terrorist..so what, we are talking pure survival, nothing else.

It is so easy to scream blue murder and bomb them all when sitting in your well-lit well-heated room with lots of Christmas presents waiting downstairs under the tree and a turkey simmering in the kitchen, and I'm quite sure nobody, absolutely nobody here on this Forum ever had to suffer from hunger and poverty so badly that it was life-endangering
So Senator Murray is all about women's rights? And all the women in Afghanistan did not have any advantages from the doings of al-quaida?

Well, in terms of what we are discussing here this information is totally useless. She may have said something about the role of women in islamic countries, there is certainly a lot to say, but what does it have to do with the assessment of the strategy of OBL, which is still correct??

jcs17, it is better to read what others have to say, then think about it, analyze it, then answer.

oh and btw: It's pretty dumb to say that America (AND Europe!!!) have nothing to do with the ongoing situation...that is the stupidest assessment I've heard for a long time: Yes we are part of the problem, very much so, like it or not, and we are certainly part of the solution, IF there is one (which looks rather doubtful right now). Closing your eyes and your ears and screaming "I don't want to know or see or hear and it's not my fault" is childish and will get us all exactly nowhere!!!



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineGalaxy5 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2034 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (11 years 8 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1750 times:

hey im not sure why the one sound bite didnt work try these others and see if they work for ya.

http://www.twreport.com/pmurray/pattymurray4.mp3

http://www.twreport.com/pmurray/pattymurray4.ram

http://www.twreport.com/pmurray/pattymurray4.wav

http://www.twreport.com/pmurray/pattymurray4.zip



"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
User currently offlineGo Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (11 years 8 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1742 times:

"Maybe the next president will actually try to make friends in the Middle East, rather than pissing more people off."

The us does have friends in the middle east.what are you suggesting that the Us became friendly to the taliban and al queda after 9/11?

are you suggesting the usa should be friendly to iraq?

ah but hold on it was friendly to iraq and to afghanistan and looked where it got them.

are you suggesting that the inclusion of iran in the 'axis of evil' was a bad way to put across a viewpoint, if so i agree with you.

"Thats not what the American people thought in November....

The Republicans did nothing to earn their victory. It was a Democrat loss, and it will not happen again "

of course it will, the democrats will be whipped time and time and time again, you wont get a look in till 2008.



It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 18, posted (11 years 8 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1728 times:

I only get error when trying to open the files..maybe it doesn't work over here in Europe or whatever...
So please tell me: Did she actually say "Osama is a good thing" or something even remotely similar to that or did she just give an assessment of the situation?

regards

Andreas



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineOvelix From Greece, joined Aug 1999, 639 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (11 years 8 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1719 times:

Andreas

It's obvious that Galaxy named the topic after his impression, not according to what he actually heard.

It's interesting to see Americans arguing over politics, Bush and Clinton, Democrats and Republicans (Strange thing, both words mean exactly the same, in the rest of the world is something like Socialists Vs Conservatives).

Jcs17

To you, opening my mind, would be disavowing everything I believe in to say what is popular on these boards...that America and George W. Bush is wrong, as usual.

Wrong. Opening your mind would be to see what is out there beyond your short-sighted point of view. Senator said that sometime in the past the US government made some mistakes and that you sould not let them happen again. You, personally, would like to hear that everything Bush does is right. Sorry, this is not the case here.



I strongly disagree with Sen. Murray's statements, I feel that giving this kind of praise for OBL is extremely unwarranted and unfair to those who lost loved ones.

You impress me. Where did you see "praise"? She said (read my post above) that OBL was the ONLY person that gave those poor people the impression that SOMEONE cares. If you believe that this is praise, well, so be it.

Ovelix, I know youre not from America, so I dont expect you to know Patty Murray, or her issues...

You would be surprised to see how many things I know about America. Sure much more than many Americans know about their own country.

I feel that her comments were very hypocritical, when the Taliban has in effect kept women out of society since they have taken over

And, in your opinion, what exactly that hypocrit has in mind when "praising" OBL? By calling her "hypocrite" I assume that you have an idea about her REAL thinking. Please enlight me.

Kostas





User currently offlineJcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 20, posted (11 years 8 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1709 times:

Andreas:
Do we have a turning point here or do the aviation right-wingers still have a hangover??

I love when people use the Jaysit Method of Debate (its copyrighted and patented, by the way)...when you have to resort to name-calling instead of bringing up the issues. (typical Liberal tactic)

Sure Ovelix is European, and so am I, and I didn't know either who this lady is, but who cares anyway???

Uhhh, if you dont even know who Patty Murray is, and what she stands for then why are you commenting on something you have no experience with? Im not going to bother with a response, because you dont know what I am talking about.

Ovelix:
Democrats and Republicans (Strange thing, both words mean exactly the same

I really dont see where you are going with that...

Wrong. Opening your mind would be to see what is out there beyond your short-sighted point of view. Senator said that sometime in the past the US government made some mistakes and that you sould not let them happen again. You, personally, would like to hear that everything Bush does is right. Sorry, this is not the case here.

First of all, please enlighten me, Ovelix, on what you would have done if you were the president of US after around 3k of your citizens were killed...seriously, answer that for me. The only way that I could open my mind in a way that you would accept, would be to take a totally Eurocentric, anti-American approach to this issue. Otherwise, if I do not agree, I'm just considered another doltish American.

You impress me. Where did you see "praise"? She said (read my post above) that OBL was the ONLY person that gave those poor people the impression that SOMEONE cares. If you believe that this is praise, well, so be it.

Ovelix, she raved about his accomplishments, and then said indirectly that America was probably wrong...I mean, no condemnation for the bombings? Only bringing up the positive aspects of OBL...thats what I call praise.

Sure much more than many Americans know about their own country.

Yeah, yeah. We've all heard it before...Americans are stupid, ignorant, and arrogant. Oh yeah, and European society is better...Give it up already.

And, in your opinion, what exactly that hypocrit has in mind when "praising" OBL? By calling her "hypocrite" I assume that you have an idea about her REAL thinking. Please enlight me.

She is a hypocrite for speaking for womens rights in America, and then praising a man that has destroyed women's culture in Afghanistan...It makes no sense and is very hypocritical.



America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 21, posted (11 years 8 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1688 times:

you have to say about what I said in my posting...very well, I don't have a prob with that.
But if you go back to my posting, the one you are referring to, then you will find lots and lots of issues brought up.
Now I have to say I don't like your method of debating at all: Read the first sentence, don't like it, no further reading required...Wow!! I can't even say that's typical right-wing tactics...it's just incredibly dumb!
But thanks anyway for calling me liberal, I've always considered myself to be one!

Now I don't want to get down on your level, so just one of your points from your last posting...quote:
She is a hypocrite for speaking for womens rights in America, and then praising a man that has destroyed women's culture in Afghanistan...It makes no sense and is very hypocritical.

Jcs17, we are talking about Islamic society, in this case even war-torn for 25 years, with women's rights the way we see it pretty much down on the list of priorities. Now I don't like that either, but it's a fact and Sen. Murray probably knows that, at least I hope she does, and therefore her assessment was correct without being hypocritical the least bit. If she would have brought up feminism in Afghanistan in that speech, her audience would have laughed her out of the room, and deservedly so.

Oh and about your US-Europe complex: Nobody here said anything about European society being better than the US, it's in your head, and not only in yours...how low is your self-esteem that anytime some Non-US guy says anything critical about the US or just something good about his own country you are going through the roof screaming "Anti-Americanism!!!"?

Now read your last post again and talk about who is raving here!!

Oh and btw: Jaysit is a lawyer...he should know how to argue Big grin

I wish you a happy and enlightened new year

Andreas



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineWe're Nuts From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (11 years 8 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1683 times:

Oh and btw: Jaysit is a lawyer...he should know how to argue

And if you aren't careful, he'll screw you out of a few thousand dollars.



Dear moderators: No.
User currently offlineOvelix From Greece, joined Aug 1999, 639 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (11 years 8 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1670 times:

First of all, please enlighten me, Ovelix, on what you would have done if you were the president of US after around 3k of your citizens were killed...seriously, answer that for me.

Who said that US should sit like a duck to receive the next strike? But, as I have said before, 9/11 is the absolute excuse about absolutely anything that US does and suports in the last 15 months. Retaliate is only part of the total solution. The other part is to understand WHY this happened and prevent it from happening again.

Look at Europe (even though you think that stinks). After WWI they humiliated Germany and took her to her knees. REVENGE was what the Allies wanted then. Nobody said back then that they should cooperate with rather than punish Germany. The results are part of the sad history.

After WW2 the Allies WITH Germany decided to cooperate. Less than 10 years after the war the first steps of what would become the EU were already made. In that particular case Europe made sure that nobody there could or would start an imperialistic war again. See? Adapt that logic to the current situation and make sure that nobody can or will attack the US. If GWB's way for this is to bomb everyone then, sorry, expect a second and a third round of attacks. This is not gonna work and the targets will be all of us, both in Europe and USA.

When you seek REVENGE you get REVENGE. Simple as that.

The only way that I could open my mind in a way that you would accept, would be to take a totally Eurocentric, anti-American approach to this issue. Otherwise, if I do not agree, I'm just considered another doltish American.

Wrong again. I would just be happy to see you discussing things and exchange opinions rather than speak like ultra-conservative uneducated person.

Ovelix, she raved about his accomplishments, and then said indirectly that America was probably wrong...I mean, no condemnation for the bombings? Only bringing up the positive aspects of OBL...thats what I call praise.

Everybody has condemned the attacks long ago. What you expect now? To condemn and condemn until they eventually go to hell? We are now at the next step. Wake up!!


She is a hypocrite for speaking for womens rights in America, and then praising a man that has destroyed women's culture in Afghanistan...It makes no sense and is very hypocritical.

Andreas has answered you already. I agree with him. Please, grow up a little more, read a lot more, and THINK more. Then we can talk...

Kostas



User currently offline747-451 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2417 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (11 years 8 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1654 times:

oopps I thought it was Cyntia Mckinney speaking...

25 Post contains links ExitRow : Galaxy5, I listened to the mp3 file several times and not once did I hear Sen. Murray say the phrase "Osama is a good thing." Do you know the proper u
26 Post contains images Jcs17 : oopps I thought it was Cyntia Mckinney speaking... If it was Cynthia McKinney speaking she'd somehow mesh that message with how whites should pay rep
27 Dc10guy : If that is true, I wonder why them hospital workers were killed in Yemen the other day? The truth is ....Bin Laden hates us because we (most Americans
28 We're Nuts : He hates us because of what we did to his world. Look it up, you'd be surprised.
29 Andreas : That link works just fine! Somehow I was quite sure that she does not praise OBL as a good thing...and her assessment is still correct. Happy New Year
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