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A Story About The Middle East And Turmoil  
User currently offlineGalaxy5 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2034 posts, RR: 24
Posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2212 times:

The Daughter of an Arab Warrior Tells Her Tale
By Nonie Darwish
FrontPageMagazine.com | December 30, 2002
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=5301

I hope that my story will shed light on the truth in the Middle East to every American, especially to those who subscribe to the erroneous idea that US policy in that region must have caused Islamic and Arab hatred of the West.

My father, who was not a Palestinian, was a very prominent military officer in the Middle East, I will not mention the country for personal reasons. His job was to mobilize Palestinian forces into Israeli territory and cause as much death and damage to Israel as possible. As a small child in the 50's, I remember the horror of being told not to take any candy or fruit from any stranger since it could have a bomb in it. Our house was surrounded with security, a couple of times our train trip was cancelled because the train tracks were bombed. I remember sleeping nights under the bed fearing the sound of bombs and explosions.

I remember going to a Palestinian preschool and kindergarten and the word "Jew" instilled terror and dread into the core of my very being. A Jewish person was portrayed like less than human, a dog, an evil alien from outer space who was about to destroy the world. Jews, they said, had no home because they were cursed by God and the main mission of Islam was to get rid of Jews. As a small child I remember once, at a Palestinian school, asking "why?" The response was that I was a traitor for asking this question and would go to hell, and for the rest of the day the girls in the school did not talk to me. The education was mainly political, teaching kids the hatred of Israel. Arabic poetry was recited daily, with tears in Palestinian children's eyes, on how Palestine was taken from them and how they will retaliate and even die to get it back.

In spite of this atmosphere, my own family which was not Palestinian, did not discuss this hatred. To my mother, and I think also to my father, whom I hardly remember, his job was his duty, nothing more and nothing less, and I don't think he really liked it. My mother said that he was getting sick of his job and was promised to leave his post and get transferred to a post that did not require living on the edge as he and all of us (his family) were. Two weeks before leaving his post he was killed by the Israelis in retaliation.

My loving father died at age 35 and never saw his children grow, let alone his grandchildren. He was robbed of his life and for that I blame the Middle Eastern Islamic culture and the propaganda of hatred taught to children from birth.

Immediately after my father's death many people congratulated (!!!) us as the children of a hero and a shahid "Martyr". I remember I spent many nights crying alone wishing he did not have a cause to die for and I resented the idea of martyrdom. It never made sense to my young mind then since, why should God want us to die for a cause when he gave us life?! I was told that my dad was in heaven now since he died as martyr and schools and streets were named after him. I was shocked to know that almost 90% of streets in the Middle East are named after martyrs. As I walked in my neighborhood I found street after street with men's names who gave their lives to martyrdom! What a disaster to many families and children, but we were taught only to be proud and retaliate! I dreamed my father would probably come back home from heaven since we needed him more than heaven.

In the funeral I saw men crying like children after his death since he was deeply loved by others too. My mother, after the funeral, was left in a severe depression of which she never truly recovered and my childhood together with my siblings was further ruined. We received a generous pension from the government and so my mother was able to send us to the best private schools. I was very lucky to go to a Catholic school run by Irish nuns.

After a short time, the people who had congratulated us were nowhere to be found, and my mother had very little emotional help. Being in the Middle East in the late 50's, it was very difficult for a woman to live without a husband. There is practically no social structure of support for widows. It is a very clan-like society. Your strength and social status comes only from your family and especially your male relatives. Despite the crowded cities of the Middle East and close proximity of living conditions, the people seem friendly but are isolated from one another and believe in envy. There is strict ritual of behavior, but not genuine social cohesion. The culture is dominated by the idea that "I will be cursed by people who will envy me" to the point of paranoia. People have to keep their distance, sometimes even from their own family members, in defense from the Evil Eye. They always point out that "envy" was mentioned in the Koran. They never discussed envy as a sin that hurts the person who is envious, but as a curse that one has to be on guard against. They learn to keep all good news secret and wear blue beads to stop the Evil Eye.

All the good Moslems who were very proud of my Dad stopped visiting after a few weeks. Maybe some women did not want us to envy them having husbands and fathers! The relationships among Moslem women were extremely competitive since, according to the Islamic law, husbands can have up to four wives, therefore visiting and being friendly with widowed women can be very threatening. Women actually could shun a beautiful young widow like my mother. One time I heard a woman telling her husband that he could fool around if he wanted to, but to please never marry another woman. Family loyalties and structure is very different there.

In the Middle East a woman's reputation is everything. Neighbors would watch every step of a woman leaving her house, what time she came home and who visited her. I remember my mother chastised me and grounded me because a boy came to talk to me when I was waiting for her to pick me up from school. She said "don't you care about your reputation, having no father and a boy talking to you on the sidewalk?!" I can't blame her now since she was living in this tragedy herself.

The first day I attended my Catholic school, the nuns told my mother they were praying for her. The first day was very peaceful and I felt love among people for the first time in a long time. It was a different kind of love, a peaceful kind of love that wants nothing in return. Half the class was Moslem and we attended a class once a day to learn the Koran. The "Islam" teacher merely recited verses and spoke of Islamic history. I constantly felt that the God of Islam was always angry at us and there was a constant threat of Hell. We never discussed love and a large amount of time was devoted to the wars of Mohammed and how he won most of them. He and his followers would engage in wars with other tribes from Mecca and kill and loot their caravans. They did that for 20 years until Mohamed won and Mecca surrendered. As a child the stories scared me. I am very appreciative that my mother never insisted on us to practice Islam and she had no hatred toward other religions.

The Middle East culture deprived me of my father and left me and my siblings helpless orphans with no emotional support from a cruel social structure. I grew up with anger and struggled for a long time to keep my sanity. My trust of people and sense of security was shattered and I learned to question anything and everything starting with the Arab hatred of Jews. The Moslems' hatred of Christians came next after Jews. I guess there were too many Arab Christians and perhaps the idea was, take one at a time, get rid first of Jews, then Christians.

Christians were commonly called "Blue Bone", I never knew what that meant, but I do know that it meant something bad. When I grew up and finished college I could not stay in this society any longer. My love of life won and I refused to fall into the cycle of hate and live in a society with clashing contradictions. The culture that does not have enough value for life will not have value for people to get together to advance their economic and social condition. That is why most Middle East and Moslem countries are economic basket cases. Thank God a country called the USA opened its arms to people from all across the world, and I was honored to immigrate to the US over 23 years ago and become a part of this great nation.

I could not adjust to a Middle East culture that doesn't value children's life enough, a culture that orphans its own children and is so obsessed with hatred of Jews that it's ready to sacrifice the morals and health of its family structure over a few miles of land and the city of Jerusalem, which is the holy land of Jews and Christians. Unfortunately, the current Islamic culture is in the process of committing moral suicide.

The U.S.A. set an example to the world on how different races and different religions can coexist with respect despite their differences. I wish Islam would show some grace and accept the Jewish people and the state of Israel. The Jewish people enrich the Middle East culture and tie us to the historical origin of the region. Can you believe what a tragedy it would be if all Jews in the Middle East left? I sometimes daydream of a day in which the Moslems welcome and celebrate the Jewish existence in the Middle East and realize that the Jewish religion is not a threat to them and that it is the origin of both Christianity and Islam. Islam took a lot from Judaism and Christianity and perhaps is afraid of being exposed. Could that be why Moslems don't want to coexist with other religions? Moslems are very sensitive when you point to the fact that their holiest day of celebration is the Bible story of Abraham, his son and the lamb. In reality, they don't need to feel this way since Islam has developed into its own identity and distinction.

A message to all Middle East women: it is in your hands to change your society. Stop being submissive in giving up your husbands and sons to martyrdom. What a tragedy when you celebrate the death of your suicide bombers sons. Value their lives so they might value theirs and maybe they will respect you more.

I plead to the wives and daughters of "Shahid" to listen. The same people who will congratulate you on your beloved "Shahid" father or son are the same people who will criticize you as a loose woman when they see you leave your homes alone without a man to run your life. The people who encourage terrorists and Shahids are cruel and evil people that hide behind the Koran for the sake of attaining power and high office. They are ready to give up these men's lives and maybe throw a little money to the families. That might fool some as support, but wait, in no time you will be alone in bringing up your kids and facing the difficulties of life alone in a merciless society that has no respect for single women. You will be without a husband and your children deprived of fathers growing up. They are ready to sacrifice generation after generation of women widowed at a young age and children orphaned! For what? I remember as a teenager when people criticized our home as having no man in it, and people watching all our moves and criticizing us when we had male guests. In Islam every home is respected by the male figure in it. How about the homes of "martyrs" Usama and Arafat? Has any one of the virtuous Moslem leaders thought of that? Don't be fooled by the glory of being a martyr. I learned that the hard way, but thank God I triumphed. I could not have done it without living in freedom in the USA.

As a child I was asked by many: "Are you going to avenge the killing of your father by killing Jews?" My answer now as an adult is a firm "no". Instead, I will live to expose the dark side of the Moslem culture and Islamic fundamentalists.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ms. Darwish is an American of Arab/Moslem origin and a former editor and translator. Her e-mail is noniedarwish@hotmail.com



"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5032 posts, RR: 44
Reply 1, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2189 times:

Haven't read it, and won't. The fact that it comes from Frontpagemag says all there needs to be said. If you can find me a credible source, I'll be happy to read it.

User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2182 times:

Scorpio, how about reading it first, then posting?




Proud to be an Assyrian!
User currently offlineDavid b. From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3148 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2190 times:

Frontpagemag is not worth reading. Anyone who reads that crap really needs to get a life. Please find a real source.

Thank You



Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5032 posts, RR: 44
Reply 4, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2171 times:

marco,

Have you ever taken the time to take a close look at Frontpagemag? I have. It's rightout disgusting.

Some titles, of actual articles on this site, to make you get the gist of what this site is about:

-Will the Leftists Kill “Bambi”?
-Environmental Pol Pots
-A Road to Nowhere: The Palestinian Utopia
-Send Pizza to Our Israeli Allies (!)
-Canada: Base for Terrorists
-Why the Left Really Hates Israel
-They Hate Christians, Too
-De-Nazify the West Bank
-Palestinians Cheer Carnage
-War and the Fickle Left
-Hollywood Appeasers
-Anti-Americanism Redux Abroad
-NPR: National Palestinian Radio
-American Newspapers Put PC Before Profit
-100,000 Communists March On Washington To Give Aid and Comfort to Saddam Hussein
-Shame on You America-Hating Liberals
-Leftists in Los Angeles Mobilize Against the War on Terrorism
-ANTI-AMERICAN 9/11 DAY AT UC BERKELEY
-Outed as a Commie
-How the Left Thinks (Or Doesn't)
-Liberalism And Terrorism
-The McKinneycrats and the Vast Left Wing Conspiracy
-The Clinton Curse
-The Secret Thrill of Slapping Hillary
-HilLiary, The Sequel (note the spelling)
-Hillary's Solution: Screw the Children
-The Hillary Conspiracy
-See BS? Hillary-ous
-...

And I only picked a few. So please, don't expect me, or ANYONE, to take anything these idiots write seriously.


User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2165 times:

Fair enough Scorpio.

But how about giving whoever wrote this article the benefit of the doubt?read it and then post your opinion.



Proud to be an Assyrian!
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2171 times:

Whatever, but this post seems quite correct. I know some people will hate to admit the truth in it, as it conflicts with their worldview of ME Islamic fundamentalism being the only true way to live and the destruction of all other religions and ways of life the only worthy goal to live (and especially to die) for.

Denial of the fact that current Palestinian society (and other societies like it) is at the core rotten and based solely on hatred of outsiders won't help you long.
It is a fact that for generations Palestinian children in the region have learned from the day they could talk that Jews and Christians are devils and that dieing in the struggle to exterminate them provides you with guaranteed access to heaven.
It's also a fact that this has led to a society that is completely non-productive (what can one expect from a society where every person from age 4 is trained to become a suicidal fighter expecting to die before age 30) and unable to sustain itself (it's like societies where the women are not allowed to do work and the men refuse to work because of their social status).



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5032 posts, RR: 44
Reply 7, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2159 times:

Marco,

But how about giving whoever wrote this article the benefit of the doubt?read it and then post your opinion.

Fair enough; After having read it, here's my opinion:

I can summarize it really shortly: The description this woman gives of the Palestinian society is probably spot-on. There is a lot of hatred toward Jews, and Christians too for that matter. The place is in a self-destructive, violent downward spin. But the thing is: it wasn't always like that. Something set all this in motion. This is a question the writer does not touch with a ten-foot pole, and it is what makes her assessment of the situation worthless.

The bigots of Frontpagemag have used her statement to spread their hateful message, i.e. that Islam is evil, as that is clearly the message we are supposed to get out of this.


User currently offlineADG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2151 times:

As this cannot be verified it needs to be treated as nothing more than propoganda at this stage.




VH-ADG


User currently offlineGalaxy5 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2034 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2147 times:

ADG
Respect Rating: 55
Posted 2002-12-30 23:58:41 and read 2 times.
As this cannot be verified it needs to be treated as nothing more than propoganda at this stage.




VH-ADG


Wow thats a change LOL everything is propaganda to your view point unless it sides with you.





"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
User currently offlineDavid b. From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3148 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2138 times:

Same can be said about your views 5


Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16285 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2136 times:

Haven't read it, and won't.

Yup. It must be wonderful to have an open mind, huh?  Yeah sure

This woman's article is actually PRO-arab because it discusses concerns with fundamentalism and lack of freedom. Hence, to say....Haven't read it, and won't.........well, then you must be ANTI-arab.






Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineDavid b. From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3148 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2130 times:

Please quote from a real source. Thank You


Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
User currently offlineGalaxy5 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2034 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2118 times:

David b.
Respect Rating: 54
Posted 2002-12-31 03:47:01 and read 20 times.
Same can be said about your views 5


As the same can be said for your views also.



"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
User currently offlineTWAneedsNOhelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2110 times:

Unfortunately, the current Islamic culture is in the process of committing moral suicide.

 Big thumbs up

-----

Why is this Arab American whose been schooled as a translator and grew up in the west bank not a "real source"???

thank you for answering inteligently


User currently offlineDc10guy From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 2685 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2109 times:

Scorpio, You make me fell bad to be a "liberal"!!! I support most liberal things like a clean environment, peace, human rights etc. But one of the things that I feel sets a liberal apart form the rest is having an open mind, yours is very negative and closed. I think there is a lot of truth to that letter, I work with a guy from Pakistan and he has told me a lot of things that are the same as what that letter is saying. For a school teacher you have a lot of learning to do.


Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
User currently offlineDavid b. From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3148 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2098 times:

Frontpagemag is a worthless source of data regardless of who wrote the article. My answer. Thank You Yeah sure

Unfortunately, the current Islamic culture is in the process of committing moral suicide.


Some people are happy to see this happen. Not me.



Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5032 posts, RR: 44
Reply 17, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2097 times:

Dc10guy,

You might have noticed that I have made several posts in this thread. The last of which dealt exactly with the original article.

When looking into a situation, and being presented with material, the first thing a good historian will do is consider the source. That is precisely what I did. Calling Frontpagemag a credible source is laughable at best. And again, as I suspected, this article teaches us nothing new. The way it is interpreted by Frontpagemag makes it a tool of propaganda for them, to promote their staunch anti-Islam viewpoint.

TNNH,

Why is this Arab American whose been schooled as a translator and grew up in the west bank not a "real source"???

thank you for answering inteligently


The problem is not Ms. Darwish. Again, her description of the situation in the Palestinian territories is pretty accurate. The problem is that Frontpagemag uses her statement to spread its hateful message, i.e. that Islam is evil, and does not bother to even ask the logical question 'How did it ever come this far?' 'What set this in motion?' These questions, which NEED to be asked, are not even touched.

It's a beautiful way to turn an article which is good in itself around to suggest something completely different.

Oh, BTW, TNNH, I can only hope that your  Big thumbs up in the previous post does not mean you are happy with how the Islamic culture is committing moral suicide. That would just be sickening.


User currently offlineTodareisinger From Switzerland, joined Mar 2001, 2806 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2092 times:

to spread its hateful message, i.e. that Islam is evil

Fundamentalist extremist Islam is evil.


* *


...and does not bother to even ask the logical question 'How did it ever come this far?' 'What set this in motion?' These questions, which NEED to be asked, are not even touched.

We all know here how you answer these "questions"; but perhaps you could also answer those same questions in relation with the situation in Algeria, where the same Islamic fundamentalists are committing the same horrors for more than a decade. Well, let's see what you'll have to say, because the "American foreign policies" explanation could hardly apply....
(or you'll perhaps prefer not to answer and call me "an extremist" for the 10000th time...)




I bitterly miss the livery that should never have been changed (repetition...)
User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5032 posts, RR: 44
Reply 19, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2089 times:

Toda,

I indeed refuse to answer your questions, given the way I KNOW you will interpret them.

You might actually gain *some* credibility on these forums if, instead of constantly running around insinuating people to be anti-Semites and telling us just how incredibly bad we are, you would actually try to bring something new to a discussion, any discussion.

You could start by answering the questions yourself:
-How DID it ever come this far, TodaReisinger, always keeping in mind that people were not blowing themselves up in Palestine 60 years ago?
-What set all this in motion?

I am very curious to hear from you what answer you are going to give to these questions. I would, for just this once, really appreciate a non-abusive answer, in which you stick to the topic, don't make any underhanded remarks toward me or anybody else, and don't insinuate just what I might have meant with these questions.

Allow me to ask another, very simple question to you:
-Do you, TodaReisinger, believe that Israel has treated the Palestinians fairly ever since its conception? A simple yes or no will do.

Now, if you can honestly answer these questions, and provide something of substance to this discussion, and if you are willing to cease the insinuating tone of your replies, and the anti-Semite crap, then I am willing to call it a cease-fire, and will stop calling you an extremist.

The ball is in your camp.

As for the situation in Algeria, I have not studied this situation, and can therefore not provide an answer.


User currently offlineTWAneedsNOhelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2079 times:

i agree with the statement the current Islamic culture is in the process of committing moral suicide.

i am neither pleased nor surprised this is occuring.

tnnh




User currently offlineTWAneedsNOhelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2078 times:

furthermore scorpio, you agree with ms darwish and oyu agree with her statements. so whats the problem.

the fact that you agree with ms darwish, only lends credence to "frontpagemag"'s views, none of which, by the way, i have found either extremist or appaling. if they are concnered with the degradation of the islamic world and the use of violence and terror by muslims to destroy the west, i completely agree with them and would challenge you to rebut this fact.

tnnh


User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5032 posts, RR: 44
Reply 22, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2070 times:

TNNH,

"frontpagemag"'s views, none of which, by the way, i have found either extremist or appaling.

That WAS a joke, right?

if they are concnered with the degradation of the islamic world and the use of violence and terror by muslims to destroy the west, i completely agree with them and would challenge you to rebut this fact.

They are not 'concerned', they're looking for a scapegoat.


User currently offlineAvi From Israel, joined Sep 2001, 943 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2064 times:

Scorpio,
How DID it ever come this far

I’ll give you a hint. This woman talked about things that took place in the mid / late 50’s.
At that time Israel was not in Lebanon, the West Bank or the Gaza Strip. Still, her father job was to help PA to kill as many Israelis as possible.

Can you guess now how come it got this far?

As for the situation in Algeria, I have not studied this situation, and can therefore not provide an answer.

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you are sound and look right now?
What exactly don’t you know?
Don’t you know that Moslems in Algeria murdered thousands of … Moslems?



Long live the B747
User currently offlineTodaReisinger From Switzerland, joined Mar 2001, 2806 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2065 times:

-How DID it ever come this far, TodaReisinger, always keeping in mind that people were not blowing themselves up in Palestine 60 years ago?
-What set all this in motion?



There's a dangerous movement which was born in Egypt and Saudi Arabia in the first half of the last century: fundamentalist Islam ( the Muslim Brotherhood...I may guess you've heard of this earlier...). They have a very extremist interpretation of Islam and among their religious goals there's the need to Islamize the world; non-Muslims, or what they call "infidels", must be fought: either convert to Islam or die.
This "fundamentalist" conception is believed to be a reaction to the modernization which took place in the Arabian region with the colonial presence. Most Arab countries are independant for over 50 years, and in many there were troubles with Islamic extremists (Syria, Egypt, Morocco, Algeria, Sudan...). To get rid of this problem, late Syrian president Assad didn't care much about human rights...and razed to the groung the whole city of Hama in order to eradicate the Islamic threat to his own dictatorial power.

[interestingly, one (former) participant, who was very critical of Israel's human rights policies, didn't hesitate to present the Hama mass killings (>20'000 civilian dead) as an example of how other countries should deal with this problem...illustrating the bad faith shared by many Israel-bashers...]

In Egypt too, thousands of people have been killed and arrested over the last 2 decades in Mubarak's struggle against the Islamic fundamentalists. His predecessor, Anwar Sadat, was assassinated by those extremists; btw, on a leaflet "explaining" why they decided to kill him, the peace treaty with Israel came very low on the list...
The Islamic extremists have killed in Egypt dozens of tourists with the declared intention of ruining one of the country's most important income. Mubarak's dictatorial regime has killed those extremists by the thousands...and nobody found anything negative to say; on the opposite: in a very Israel-critical Swiss newspaper, there was the other day an article praising Mubarak's tough fight against the Islamic threat...(well, 60 Swiss tourists had been killed in Louxor 5 years ago, thus maybe the unbalanced attitude...).

In Morocco, there's also an Islamic threat, but for now Hassan's and his son's regimes have proved to be strong enough...although some Europeans, shocked by the human rights situation there, would like to withdrow the support to this absolute monarchy...

And precisely, in Iran the Shah's regime didn't survive after being abandoned by the West...and this was the first success for the Islamic extremists: it was their first victory, the first "Islamic revolution" which brought them in charge of a whole country. The results are known... And it boosted the Islamic militants worldwide, Khomeiny's coup was called "the Iranian model", a model which need to be exported...and imitated in as many places as possible (it was in 1979; Hama took place in 1982...).


So what's your point...? The "US foreign policies" are responsible for this generalized sh*t? Israel, a tiny country of 20'000 sq km, is responsible for this Islamic fundamentalism violence from Pakistan to Morocco? That's really a ridiculous (and hateful) assumption.



* * *



people were not blowing themselves up in Palestine 60 years ago

The phenomenon of suicide bombs is the DIRECT product of fundamentalist Islam and its sickening conception of martydom. The 72 virgins and all this sh*t are part of these crazy pseudo-religious theories.


There were killings already 70 years ago and earlier...The Islamic fundamentalism arrived only later, after the Iranian revolution (with Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas + Islamic Jihad in the territories).
But, without resorting to suicide bombers, the PLO terrorists have committed the same kind of horrific attacks against hundreds of Israeli civilians and Jewish targets around the world; Arafat & Co are the ones who invented skyjacking and the blowing up of civilian airplanes (remember Swissair in 1970). Arafat & Co launched muderous attacks against schools, busses, restaurants, theaters, markets, cafés, airplanes, airports, cruise ships, Olympic athletes, hotels, appartment buildings and any other civilian places; Islamic extremists have invented nothing new in this field; they are just doing the same coward attacks as their non-religious allies. The only difference is that they're using a more coward and horrific "mean": human bombs. And the greatest problem with these "living bombs" is that they are quite impossible to detect once they're on Israeli territory. [that's btw the reason why the IDF had to reenter PA territories; there's not a week during which one or many "suicide bombers" aren't caught on their way to an Israeli population center].



* * * *


-Do you, TodaReisinger, believe that Israel has treated the Palestinians fairly ever since its conception? A simple yes or no will do.

Any normal person will answer your "question" by the negative; but one should also keep in mind 2 other elements: the Palestinians and the Arab world didn't treat the Jews and Israel "fairly" neither and by far, and the Arab countries have treated their Palestinian "brothers" even less "fairly" than Israel has done. Indeed, the Palestinian problem could have been solved for over 5 decades...
The general Arab hostility against Israel has greatly contributed to the conflictual relations between Israel and the Palestinians.



* * * * * * * *



And now more personnally:

you would actually try to bring something new to a discussion, any discussion.

This remark applies much better to yourself, Scorpio; you are the one who systematically refuses to answer any uncomfortable question; you are the one claiming there are "reasons" behind the Holocaust and refusing to elaborate on your thoughts...with the bad faithed pretext that I am "an extremist"; you are refusing to discuss any topic linked to fundamentalist Islam in which you would find yourself unable to attack the US and Israel (thus writing "As for the situation in Algeria, I have not studied this situation, and can therefore not provide an answer"). You are a European, just like me, and Algeria is twice as close to Europe as Israel...so don't tell me such a BS; and BTW, given your repeated inaccurate remarks on the ME problem, it is clear that you haven't "studied" this situation more than the one in Algeria; you simply have preconceived opinions which are also (at least partially) the result of the strong anti-Israeli attitude of European media and their obsession with this matter.



* * * * * * * * * *




You might actually gain *some* credibility on these forums if, instead of constantly ...

You know, unlike for you, that's my last preoccupation; but if you think to be "credible", you're very wrong. This sentence from you ["Jews, for the most part, were living comfortable lives"] is sufficient alone to illustrate the frightening degree of your "credibility".


* *


then I am willing to call it a cease-fire, and will stop calling you an extremist.

A cease-fire? Well, since you are the only one who declared the war...you're free to declare a cease-fire (even 1000, like Yassir...); but really, I don't care if you are at war or if you call me an "extremist"...







I bitterly miss the livery that should never have been changed (repetition...)
25 Todareisinger : What exactly don’t you know? Don’t you know that Moslems in Algeria murdered thousands of … Moslems? Of course he knows, but there a
26 KLAX : Regardless of whether or not the source is credible, the article is well written and from a very credible author. Obviously, the article exposes a tru
27 Post contains links Scorpio : Avi, I’ll give you a hint. This woman talked about things that took place in the mid / late 50’s. At that time Israel was not in Lebanon,
28 Avi : Scorpio, I read the article (?), well, most of it, when I “got the picture” I speeded up (at about 70%), and I really don’t know where from to s
29 Ovelix : As a professional journalist I can tell you this: The source is at least the 50% of the information. By checking frontpagemag.com it is clear that it
30 TodaReisinger : So, then quote it back in its context, in a sole attempt to make you look good! * * * Of course, if your "sources" are Norman G. Finkelstein, Noam Cho
31 TodaReisinger : Even you can admit that something is wrong in this article. I won't of course answer in place of Scorpio, but according to all what he's writting here
32 Post contains links Scorpio : Toda, Have you read this at the end of the article: Stephen R. Shalom teaches political science at William Paterson University and is the author of Im
33 Avi : Scorpio, Toda, Have you read this at the end of the article: Stephen R. Shalom teaches political science at William Paterson University and is the aut
34 Scorpio : Avi, I never claimed Israel was the sole responsible for the present situation, I always said and supported the fact that both sides bear responsibili
35 Avi : So? What's your point? Care to tell us what it was about, instead of just misteriously mentioning this fact, as if it had any meaning? I don’t want
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