JAT From Canada, joined Feb 2000, 1095 posts, RR: 10 Posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1601 times:
The United States (government, not people) are and for as long as have know for them, have been two faced liers.
Examples:
1)NATO bombing of Yugoslavia
Although I compleatly agree with the fact that that bastard Milosevic has got to be stopped (and bombing might have been the only way, I don't know) it was not done becuase the US cares about people. It was done because NATO needed to excuse its existence and the Americans how to get rid of some of their back-log of weapons
2)Also, the same theing that Milosevic did in Kosovo has been going in Turkey for years with Kurds (they are second class citizens, allmost not even people. I even saw a video of them being beaten by Turks and no one did a single thing) no one does anything against Turkey. Oh! could that be because they are in NATO? One of those countries right on the North Atlantic.
3)The US helped General Augusto Pinochet organize his coup in Chile and kill hundreds of thousands of Spanyards. The world knew what was going on in Chile yet the US kept sending them financial aid constantly. All this to overthrow the Chilean Socialist government. OOOHH!!!! is the all-mighty US of A scared of Chile!!!
4)Refering to the previous post, somone on this forum replied to "America should adopt Socialism" and said any country should choose what kind of government they want because not everything works for everybody. Well, I agree but your government certainly doesn't think so!!!
DesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7673 posts, RR: 18 Reply 4, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1353 times:
I hope that I will not get lynched for this... but here goes in the spirit of good debate and friendly argument. I am a student of modern US history... this is one of the few things you can do w/ a history major .
ok... after WWII closed the US became the predominate world power in direct opposition to the Soviet Union. In the battle to gain power in the world, mostly in the 3rd world... we continually supported any regime that was not Communist, under the impression that any communist revolution was the workings of the Kremlin. Which much of the time was not true. Obviously this pattern continued through 1990 when the Soviet regime fell. over that 30-40 year period some of america's greatest moments occured (heavy sarcasm intended) Remember United Fruit in the 50's, Vietnam, and secret CIA involvement in Angola.
Since then the US has been weary, trying to fight this so-called "Vietnam Syndrome". We got involved in the Gulf to secure oil. But then we are reluctant to get involved in Bosnia for fear it might be another vietnam. Basically throughout the 90's we have been more involved internationally in peacekeeping and NATO actions but the US public has been weary of all this. And to answer the question why bomb Belgrade and not Ankara... the Serbs are not our allies and the Turkish have long since been friendly to us... they were kind enough to let us place nukes there.
So I guess the long and short of it is there is no simple answer. Our foreign policy makes no sense... we have formal relations with Vietnam and not Cuba... tell me that i am not the only one that thinks that makes no sense.
i will try to answer any other questions or clear up any points.
-Brad
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
NKP S2 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1714 posts, RR: 6 Reply 5, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1345 times:
I appreciate your reference to government and not the people. Yes, US foreign policy today is a joke because the US is being led by a self serving 24 Karat opportunist rat. Over and out.
DesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7673 posts, RR: 18 Reply 6, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1340 times:
WELL... I would not go so far as that. Regardless of your opinion of President Clinton... we will let the historians and political scientists hash that out. Foreign policy is much more long term. it varies little from presidency to presidency.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
NKP S2 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1714 posts, RR: 6 Reply 7, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1337 times:
You would have to express policy in the broadest of terms to say that it doesn't vary from president to president. No cohesiveness,rhyme nor reason now. Just resume ("legacy") padding.
DesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7673 posts, RR: 18 Reply 8, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 1336 times:
yes, I would have to agree with that. All leaders want to have some sort of legacy. And some decisions are done strictly to gain electorate support and everything. But I think these are more individual events. But overall direction, say like relations with Cuba is something foreign policy advisors really more define. Its one of those interesting things that the average Joe does not know how many decisions are made within our governments bureaucracy. and to be honest I'd rather have them making some of these decisions than our elected officials. Obviously it is still the President's job to approve airstrikes, or to send in peacekeepers etc.... and they get the credit/blame for it. But the interesting thing... take the Cold War... despite having both Democratic administrations and Republican administrations and congresses things were done the same. That didn't happen by accident. Keep them coming... I am enjoying this.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
9A-CRO From Croatia, joined Jun 2000, 1574 posts, RR: 9 Reply 9, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 1330 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW DATABASE EDITOR
bombing of Serbian military should have been done
in 1990. or 1991. - then the whole shit in Croatia, Bosnia, and Kosovo wouldn't happen at all.
of course US is "two-faced", but as far as I remember it was
an action of NATO, not just America + buddies as in Iraq
of course that is just one side of truth
and war crimes tribune in Haag - only Serbs, Croatians and Bosnians -
but what happened with Vietnam, N. Korea - U.S. military - from soldiers to generals?
I haven't heard they were prosecuted?
what the France did in Algiers, Britain on Falklands (do you really believe it is a British teritory ),
and nuke tests in Pacific - I don't remember that Switzerland did that - we know who did it.
and what those jerks in D.C. did to that poor cuban boy
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward...
Brissie_lions From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 1327 times:
This is a bit off-topic, but I am hoping you may be able to provide some insight for me.
My ex is Croatian and still has family in Croatia (Dubrovnik, Split, Zagreb and Osijek). During the 90-91 war, it was reported heavily in the media here in Australia (and elsewhere I suspect) that times were hard for the people of Croatia (and Bosnia) (which is understandable)....however, he was able to make contact with his relatives in Croatia on a regular basis, and they stated that the war was almost non-existent and that life went on as normal. Is this in fact the case? (Maybe it was a case of his relatives not telling the whole truth just to make us feel more at ease).
But I do agree that the Milosevic problem had to be dealt with a lot earlier than the recent troubles in Kosovo.
Question: What do you call a Serbian prostitute?
Answer: Slobber-down my-cock-you-bitch
Cheers
Scott/PER
P.S. Could you possibly email me as there is something I would like to ask you off this forum.
Bimmer202 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 134 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 1323 times:
I agree with some of your points but I think that we need to remember that it was not JUST the U.S. fighting Iraq, Yugoslavia and so on. And why don't some of the Europeans help in Turkey. The Europeans aren't blind I think.
Who let the billy goats out? No serioulsy, who let the friggin billy goats out? This aint no joke anymore children.
JAT From Canada, joined Feb 2000, 1095 posts, RR: 10 Reply 12, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 1321 times:
Yes, it was NATO who bombed Yugoslavia. But I don't thonk antbody can deny that if the US didn't want it to be done i would not have happened.
Oh sure, Portugal's frigate and Canada's few CF-18's played a part but the bulk of it was American. As far as the US is concerened with getting tough on Milosevic if the current rumours are true that they would give him assylum if he stepped down then they don't really want to persecute him.
LBSteve From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 1306 times:
Because many Americans have little knowledge of the world and their relationship with it, only a small percentage actually bothers to vote or keep up with the issues. Consequently this has allowed various big business to fill the power vacuum and through mass lobbying and ownership of the media are able to control the agenda with little opposition. Unfortunately many people I talk with so see this as the case, they usually say “oh no, this is America.. that would never happen, maybe somewhere else but not no, not in America.” Can you say hoodwinked?
NKP S2 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1714 posts, RR: 6 Reply 15, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 1284 times:
Bingo! The above post was right on the money and quite profound. To too many, ignorance is bliss. The Frog slowly boiling to death analogy applies here.
DesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7673 posts, RR: 18 Reply 16, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 1285 times:
Did you ever read the "Story of B" by Daniel Quinn??? (the reference to the boiling frog)
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
DesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7673 posts, RR: 18 Reply 18, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 1278 times:
Well, the Story of B is a fictional story of this professor who goes around lecturing and telling stories. One of the storie he tells is the parable of the frog in the boiling pot of water. Quinn is big on the idea that as society become modernized (he considers modernization the start of the agricultural revolution 4000 years ago) the water began to heat up. But since it heated up so gradually the frog didn't notice, it become warmer but it was comfortable until the frog eventually gets boiled to death. Which is the point that Quinn is making about modern society, we have outgrown the carrying capacity of the planet but remain oblivious to what is really going on around us, which can also be said about how our world is evolving... the globalization, the increasing control of large international business on world gov'ts etc.... Quinn is a bit weird, but if you like stuff that makes you think it is worth reading. Usally B. Dalton or Waldenbooks carries a few of his titles and Borders or Barnes and Nobles will have more and you can get it from Amazon.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
9A-CRO From Croatia, joined Jun 2000, 1574 posts, RR: 9 Reply 19, posted (12 years 11 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1278 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW DATABASE EDITOR
if the US continues its behaviour it will soon be bombng countries which don't want to drink COKE (brownish poisonous liquid)
in several last "missions" pne of the priorities was to test weapons
I remember in one documentary (actualy it was about British, but it's the same as US)
it was about Harrier acft - one of the engineers told that they hardly wanted a war to show abilities of Harrier - he should be hanged for such statement - to kill people for his satisfaction and fun
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward...
LBSteve From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (12 years 11 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1272 times:
"if the US continues its behaviour it will soon be bombng countries which don't want to drink COKE (brownish poisonous liquid)
in several last "missions" pne of the priorities was to test weapons"
I actually like that brownish poisonous liquid, Pepsi also
But seriously you make a good point, and the danger in this attitude is that it's bound to backfire (I hate to think how) and the general public including me will be on the receiving end. That’s an uncomfortable thought.
Copper1 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 438 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (12 years 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1256 times:
It already is backfiring. There are many parts of the world that are effectivly cut off from safe travel if you are an American citizen. Not very often you hear about foreigners being killed simply because of the country that they come from but whenever you do there is a good chance that those seleted to be killed will be from the United States.
There is no doubt in my mind that this is simply because of American foreign policy. Yes the United States is the most powerful country both militarily and economically but this in the minds of many does not give them the right to impose their will and values on other nations.
The United States Government ( by the people, for the people ) has the blood of many murdered American citizens on it's hands. It is too bad that there will be more cases of this type of thing because of the overwhelming thoughts in the USA of " My country right or wrong and Might is Right".
A most unfortunate situation as most American people are hard working, decent folks but as a group they need to wake up to what their Politicians are doing. A look outside the boarder of your own country every once in awhile is a good thing, no matter what country you are from.
9A-CRO From Croatia, joined Jun 2000, 1574 posts, RR: 9 Reply 22, posted (12 years 11 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1249 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW DATABASE EDITOR
I chose "Coke" because it is considered as one of main symbols of America. Yeah, it's taste is
good and I drink it from time to time- but actually it is quite dangerous for health (in excess
quantities)- and they still produce it - just to make profits. But still I consider glass of wine or beer
to be more healthier - doctors said that. Of course I don't mean to drink 2 liters of wine at one time.
And while we at beer - Budweiser is the best - Hey, what Budweiser you may think? I don't
understand how americans can claim that Budweiser is their name and not Czech - when I last
checked town of Budweis (a.k.a. Ceske Budjejovice) was located in Czech Reuplic, not Alabama.
So much about their respect about invention and free enterprise.
As I've seen from several movies and TV series - it is worse to pray in school than to carry a pocket
missile launcher there. Has anybody wached the episode of "The Simpsons" when Flanders was
pricipal - superintendant came, saw chaos in school but didn't do anything until he heard "a prayer"
from Flanders. Ain't this a bit strange. OK, "The Simpsons" aren't totaly realistic but still I consider
them a good critic of some problems in America.
I hope Dole will be a new president - it is safer for the whole world that there is a democrat, and not
republican in White House. It is rather unfair that only 4% of the world population decide about the destiny of the other 96%.
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward...
LBSteve From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (12 years 11 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1246 times:
Yes it is unfair.. unfortunately it is very possible the Republicans will completely sweep Democrats out of power this year (scary). If so combined with their friends in the extreme religious right would be in position to legislate virtually unopposed save for the courts. Autocracy/Theocracy here we come (oh joy!)
At most I have about 3-5 glasses of champagne or wine per year so am really not qualified to comment on alcoholic beverages.
25 9A-CRO: as I mentioned - USA company stole Budweiser name from Czechs. And nothing happened. If some company from Brno called itself Coca-Cola there would be
26 NKP S2: Oh come now LBSteve! A change of party "Scary"? What's with this "extreme right" buisness? Is there no "extreme left"? Uh huh...didn't think so. Thoma
27 Bimmer202: Go George W. Bush!! He's going to kick Al back to Tennesse!
28 Bimmer202: Hearing from you ungreatful people. I know agree with Pat Buchanon in saying that the U.S. should have never gotten into WW2. It was a complete waste
29 CstarU: I don't trust someone who couldn't make money from oil in Texas, especially with his old man's connections...not that I'm a big supporter of Al Gore.
30 LBSteve: NKP S2-- easy for you to say.. you’re not gay and don't have the burden of right-wing nutcases like Laura S. nipping at your heals calling you &
31 NKP S2: No, I get from the left the constant drumbeat that we who support the 2nd amendment of the bill of rights "have the blood of innocent children on our
32 9A-CRO: hey NKP S2 yeah everybody should be allowed to carry AK-47 under his coat you will change your mind when you or someone you know bits the bullet when
33 NKP S2: Ah yes, a perfect example of the tactic outlined in 'The Vision of the Annointed' that I referred to a few posts back. So we're racist murderers now e
34 YANKEE-DOODLE: Don't you just love all of these bashers of the good ole USA. When times are good, we have nothing to do but sit around and bash america, but when the
36 N863DA: Amen Yankee-Doodle! You're so right. Why is it exactly that there are two great evils in this world it appears - the US and the UK. If it isn't the US
37 LBSteve: I posted this on a forum in a country other than my own, it’s bound to offend many of my compatriots but frankly this is how I feel (hope you ca
38 N863DA: LBSteve: You are making a SWEEPING generalization!! I actually really resent what you wrote there, as I am a) a Southerner, b) a Baptist, and c) a Rep
39 N863DA: Just to clarify, the last paragraph of my last post refers to the entire United States, not just the South. N 8 6 3 D A
40 9A-CRO: My opinion about racial unjustice and separation comes from two sources - 1.) numerous US produced movies 2.) my observations while I visited USA, I h
41 LBSteve: "Paranoid, racist lunatics who are widely opposed to abortion, gay rights and a great deal more"... I most specifically directed that sentence to thos
42 DG_pilot: Do you not expect there to be blunders in foreign policy????? Of course we messed up here and there, but that's normal with every risk-taking venture.
Sponsor Message: 
From Canada, joined Feb 2000, 1095 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7673 posts, 
. 
From Croatia, joined Jun 2000, 1574 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
Printer friendly format 
