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Sydney Lebanese Gang Rapes In 2000  
User currently offlineRai From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2306 times:

In 2000, a gang of 14 youths of Lebanese decent aged 17-22 committed a series of rapes against young girls, one as young as 14. These crimes were particularly brutal in that some of the girls were passed around the gang and continually rapped until each of the members were finished. It is said that these victims were chosen because they were Australian. The victims say that they were taunted, beaten and eventually violated because they were “Anglo” and “Australian sluts” and that the perpetrators mentioned this throughout the ordeal.

The perpetrators were eventually caught, tried, convicted and sentenced. Most members were sentenced to serve 18-50 years in jail, far harsher than any one else in a rape case. Some say the brutality of the rapes constituted the severity of the punishment.

Justice was served; issue resolved…or is it?

Why am I bringing this up? Well, I happened to stumble across this website called Woglife (of which, I’m a participant…and considering my ethnic background, I guess I’d be considered what Aussies call a “wog”) and this event and the reaction to it seemed to be a big issue on there. I guess the country had never really gone through a rape incident that was so severe and, apparently, racially motivated. Some people were commenting that it really changed the national mood of the country and the way many look at certain groups…especially, considering the nature of the crime. A big concern on that forum was the fact that a lot of the Muslim leaders were slow to condemn these attacks. However, some of the Lebanese members of the site (depending on religious affiliation) believed that the Muslims were being unfairly targeted and blamed and that the punishment was much too harsh.

I’d like to hear some comments from the Aussies on this forum. This thread is not meant to imply that Australians are racist of have a lot of race issues, but I’d like to hear your perspective. The “wog” community seems pretty divided, depending on their origin. What about everyone else? Also, where can I find out more information about this case? And was this event as large as people in the wog community proclaim? Does the punishment fit the crime?

Thanks.

Here’s a well-written and, I think, balanced editorial regarding the event and its impact.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/07/23/1027332376292.html


25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2297 times:

Rai,

After reading newspaper articles about how some of the family members and friends of the defendents were ridiculing the girls that were raped, calling them Aussie sluts etc of course it got a huge reaction from everyone in the public.

I think the state government should have deported these people to where they had originated from if that is the kind of attitude they have taken to their new home.

mb


User currently offlineQANTASforever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 6 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2277 times:

Rai:

You said:
It is said that these victims were chosen because they were Australian.

That is probably not the kind of wording I would use. Whether Australians like it or not - these boys were born and bred in Australia and are Australian citizens. It is my understanding that neither the Lebanese community and the religious teachings of Islam nor the Anglo-Saxon community and its religious teachings of Christianity promote rape in any way shape or form. It is clear to me that this case was not a sign of a wide social rift in Australian society, rather the misguided and despicable actions of a group of delusional and criminally dangerous boys. They tried to mask their criminal behavior behind racial difference - and I along with many other Australians were insulted and infuriated.


I guess I???d be considered what Aussies call a "wog"

No no no you would not. 'Wog" has its origins as a very derogatory term and was used to offend people of middle eastern/Greek/Italian/Balkan heritage. I guess you could draw similarities to the word 'wog' and the word 'fag' in that 'fag' was originally used as a derogatory term but is now widely used by members of the gay community to describe themselves or the word 'nigger' which was once used to offend black people but is used widely by the black community as another word for African-American.

Also, I do not like people to differentiate between 'Aussie' (As much as I hate that slag word) and 'wog' because the fact is that many 'wogs' were actually born and bred in this country. 'Australian' should be the collective term used to describe everyone who is a citizen of this country while 'British-Australian' and 'Lebanese-Australian' should be used to differentiate if it is absolutely necessary.

It is easy to simply blame these problems on racial differences - but the fact is that these boys went to school and grew up in a multicultural society and knew no other life than one lived alongside whites/blacks/Asians etc. They are the problem, not Australian society.


User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2233 times:

QFforever,

I agree with you about the Australian / Aussie's thing. I always refer to the white part of the population as anglo saxon as anyone born here is an Aussie.

My housemate was born in Italy, straight and male. I call him a wog from time to time (joking) and he calls me a fag. We get on really well and take no notice of politically correct bollocks.

It's a testament to Sydney's ability to be with everyone that at the moment my Italian heritage housemate has his Vietnamese mate over in our house at the moment and we're all laughing and carrying on.

What is even more telling of how multicultural Sydney is, my household has had in it all at the same time, Trang (my housemates mate), my housemates girlfriend who is Sudanese, me (who is white aussie born of german heritage), Max who is Italian, Balass who is Hungarian and had with him his black South African girlfriend and my boyfried who is French Canadian.

So I don't think that is so unusual. It's when *ethnic gangs* go beserk is when we have trouble and these guys are criminals. The hatred they spewed forth to white Australians was completely unnacceptable.

mb


User currently offlineADG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2211 times:

My housemate was born in Italy, straight and male. I call him a wog from time to time (joking) and he calls me a fag. We get on really well and take no notice of politically correct bollocks.

Agreed. Australia is developing factions. There are the orignal larrakin Australians, there are the PC American wannabe's and there are those who bring their own counties issues in here.

It was only recently that the term "wog" became an offensive one, it still remains to many just another term. It's a term many use to describe themselves (refer: Acropolyse Now) so many dont' see it as offensive.

I think we're just trying far to hard to be something that we're not. We're Australian, we're out there and we're proud of it.

As for the rapes, well as an AUSTRALIAN, as a MOTHER, as a Community MEMBER, I think those criminals got what they deserved. Their attacks were racially motivated and they were violent. I don't care that others think that they were treated harshly because they were Lebanese .. if they hadn't raped those girls then they wouldn't have been arrested. It's as simple as that. Added to that, if they were born here then they are not Lebanese at all .. these stupid "communities" we have shouldn't be allowed .. you are an Australian citizen first, and of whatever origin second.

I can't see how they can compare their treatment with the treatment of others because an attack so heinous has not occurred since the Anita Cobby murder many years ago and even then she was not targetted because she was a white Australian.

I would suggest the Australian community is annoyed because this incident has brought a new level of racism into this country that we have not seen before. In a country where we work every single day towards reconcilliation with the Aboriginals, this racial attack has created yet another barrier that is not welcome here.

The racial issue is being used by the families as nothing more than a smokescreen to try and divert the public for the real issue here, that their children kidnapped, attacked and brutally raped young girls whose only "crime" was to be caucasion. I would suggest that they have to do this because if they don't find someone else to blame then they'd have to admit what their children really are, what we already know they are.




ADG


User currently offlineQANTASforever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2199 times:

ADG said:
There are the orignal larrakin Australians, there are the PC American wannabe's and there are those who bring their own counties issues in here.

I'm not sure if I understand you there. What is the difference between an original larrakin Australian and a PC American (contradiction in terms from my experience) wannabe?

Thank you so kindly for you speedy clarification - oh respected one.

QANTASforever Big grintit


User currently offline747-451 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2417 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2195 times:

Rai;

I am disheartened to read of such an event such as this, It reminds one of (at least there are some cultural and legal parrallels )the Central Park case here and tha aftermath that continues of it. Hopefully the perps there will stay in jail unlike here.

747-451

JFK-SYD?


User currently offlineRai From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2174 times:

ADG, I agree with pretty much everything you have said. Though I don't live in Australia and have never been there, from read through the media and a few websites, namely Woglife.com, I do get the feeling that this new level or type, if you will, of racism you alluded to is developing. Not racism in the traditional sense, but the so-called "reverse racism" that exists in the form of ethnic enclaves. An example of this appears to be this rape case. Sites like Woglife.com.au would only increase this chasm.

747-451: No, haven’t been and have no plans to go to SYD, but I’d love to go! I just ran into this story after searching for something on the net, and I do recall something about a “Lebanese gang rape case” in Sydney a few years ago, but didn’t know too many of the details. Did you find a new job yet?

Just testing the edit feature...


User currently offlineADG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2163 times:

Q4e.

Wannabes are easy to categorise. They just can't laugh at themselves ...

http://infilmau.iah.net/reviews/thewogboy.htm <-- Now here is a man who can laugh at himself .. a true Aussie larrakin and an Aussie of "other descent" to boot.

Aussies need to ask themselves this. Are they an Australia citizen or aren't they? There is no "Australian of whatever origin"... we're simply Australians ... I think they should just get the heck over it and learn to live in the lucky country before it becomes as bad as the country they fled.

Rai,

It's a sad and pathetic state of affairs when the crime is lost in the wave of racial name calling. The fact is that these guys GANG RAPED young girls, they tortured and terrorised them. I don't give a hoot what their racial background is, they will languish within their cells surrounded by their fellow criminals. Apparently (and correct me if i'm wrong guys), they attempted to mitigate the circumstances of this attack by claiming they were muslim and the muslim attitude to women allowed them to behave in this manner. Puhleaze...

Additionally, mummy has been caught sneaking maps of the prison in as well as sneaking out uncensored letters. One of them has even be caught with pills his family had obviously snuck into him. All in all, they're pretty pathetic people.

As an aside there is currently an issue where the head of the Muslim community in Sydney was pulled over in his car by the police. In the ensuing fraca he was charged with unlicensed driving and having an unregistered vehicle. There was also the suggestion of assault police. There is a huge issue, apparently he was targetted because he was muslim. I'm not sure what they are telling us, should we allow muslims to drive unregistered cars without a licence (bear in mind the insurance implications for anyone he may hit). It's simply ludicrous. Sure you can claim to be *targetted* by the police, but if they charge you they must have enough information for the charge to stick, it's pretty easy to prove that you have a licence or that your car is insured. Seems *some* people want two sets of rules, one for themselves and one for the evil white man.

Pft.



I have found that people become offended if they WANT TO BE. Some find offence where there really isn't any, and they go off making a huge issue about what is in reality a molehill! People really need to sit back and have a serious think about their attitudes in the world and how they deal with others.





ADG


User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2157 times:

ADG,

Isn't it pathetic how a so called respected Mufti of the Moslem community behaves in such a manner?

Driving without a licence or an unregistered vehicle is a fairly serious offence, this guy has been involved in some serious nasty anti propaganda a few years ago and has been responsible for stirring up the moslem community here in Sydney.

Remember when certain thugs from moslem community damaged the American consulate in Martin Place a few years back? This mufti dude was the one that egged them on. (Burning the American flag and such...)

As for the Lebanese gangs themselves, they have been a problem since the eighties and for some reason parts of this section of the community feel that they should be treated different to anyone else.

mb


User currently offlineADG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2154 times:

I guess if you whinge and whine long enough about the discrimination issue people may forget that you've actually been charged with a crime eh?



ADG


User currently offline747-451 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2417 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2126 times:

Rai,

Actually I have been working (temporarily) as a network manager for a while--but I still feel for the unemployed here and those that continue to loose their jobs as people leve this city because of 9/11, taxes, bloomberg etc. I too will be leaving this city around June, sine the tere really aren't as many jobs here anymore-back to Atlanta.

The story you quote reminds me of the Central PArk Jogger case with the following exceptions; the lack of a sensational press, the vastly less hysterical naure of Australians (logical, pragmatic people--perhap my favorites because of that!), no "PC American types (as ADG succienctly said) a judiccial system oriented to the victim as opposed to the criminal and no Al Sharpton and other Racial Arsonists to rip the city apart.


Chris ( I have been to Sysdeny on numerous business trips and vacation on the Gold Coast.)


User currently offlineQANTASforever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2117 times:

747-451:
the lack of a sensational press, the vastly less hysterical naure of Australians (logical, pragmatic people--perhap my favorites because of that!), no "PC American types (as ADG succienctly said)

I think that Australians are very tolerant and Politically Correct people but still don't take life too seriously and have the ability to laugh at themselves. A good mix, i think. I just don't want people to think that if they are black or asian and come to Australia that people will make rude racial remarks that are locally categorised as 'larrakinism'.

QANTASforever


User currently offline747-451 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2417 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2103 times:

QANTASforever

People would never think of Australians that way...as I said, pragmatic, hearty people with a sense of justice and humour--a rare mix; and not "PC" (which I consider a pejorative) at all, but having proper attitudes that fit social situations. Having traveled several times to Australia on business and pleasure, I can say her people are the most "alluring" treasure and makes you want to come back over and over...

747-451


User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2099 times:

747-451,

Thanks for the compliments about our people. I like to think Aussies are great people with a good sense of humour - we don't take things too seriously but we do know we live in one of the luckiest countries on Earth today.

We don't bray about it, we're not big flag wavers, but most of us respect our country and institutions.

Anytime your in Sydney give me a hoy and we'll have a beer or whatever!

Cheers,

mb


User currently offlineRai From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2091 times:

Actually I have been working (temporarily) as a network manager for a while--but I still feel for the unemployed here and those that continue to loose their jobs as people leve this city because of 9/11, taxes, bloomberg etc. I too will be leaving this city around June, sine the tere really aren't as many jobs here anymore-back to Atlanta.

You'd be mistaken if you think Atlanta is in that much better shape. The NY Times had an article saying that Atlanta lost more jobs than any other city in this country in 2002 (and we're talking in total, not per capita, so that say a lot). When it booms, it really booms, but when it busts, God help you. I considered moving there once because of the hot economy...until I went back for a visit. I'm from South Carolina originally and thought it was a cool place way back when...not anymore.

I want to stay here, but I am looking elsewhere now. Mostly South Florida, where the economy is in good shape. I hate Miami, but you got to go where the jobs are and at least it's on the ocean. The rest of the country is in the dregs right now.


User currently offlineAviatsiya From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2087 times:

Mx5

You can put me down for a "whatever"  Laugh out loud

I might be over your way in May on my way to BNE to see one of the Lions home games. Will look you up. The number is still at Redfern Train Station right?  Big grin


User currently offlineAWspicious From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2084 times:

Getting back to the original topic:
A rapist is a rapist... REGARDLESS of their ancestry, colour, creed, religion, or whatever frickin flag they decide to wave at any given moment when it suits them. I say "hang 'em high!"
Those "odor producing posterior" are lucky they still have the ability to breath. They didn't sustain any physical injuries as their victims did; They won't have nightmares to keep them awake at nights; They won't need counseling for the balance of their lives as the victims probably need. Hell, in some cultures, they would have been stoned to death or have an appendage removed for such a heinous crime! And they have the nerve to complain??!! Well, I cannot type on this forum the words I have for these predators.
Personally, I am of the opinion, if any of their family members, friends, or advocates stir up trouble, they too should be charged with something. I don't care what - MAKE SOMETHING UP AND NAIL THOSE odor producing posterior, TOO!

On a lighter note - I'd like to visit Australia, too. I've been hearing a lot of good things. I only hope that by the time I'm able to afford a visit, the silly people who bring their silly-ass baggage from other parts of the world won't have made a complete mess of things.

AW


User currently offline747-451 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2417 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 2080 times:

Rai;

Quite frankly, the exonomy is sucking in a lot of places; but I have more contacts in Atlanta and have already had "positive feedback" as far as jobs...and I will do ANYTHING to get rid of the 2000.00 month rent and 1800.00 a year worth of car insurance, plus another 400.00 a month to park 2 cars; plus taxes which off course my landlord will pass on to me once the powers that be get their way.

AWSpicious;

I agree--unfortunately here in NY we are criminal oriented as opposed to vicitm oriented...So I am gald at least in Australia there is a logical sense of justice free of political "gerrymandering...


747-451


User currently offlineRai From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 2078 times:

Ahhh...so you must live in Manhattan. Manhattan is a rip-off, I agree. I wouldn’t move there unless I made a shitload of money. If I had my choice, I'd move to New Jersey. NJ is actually doing pretty well right now and I've had decent feedback there compared to other places. Car insurance aside (I HATE driving anyways), I don't think it's a bad place to live.

I agree--unfortunately here in NY we are criminal oriented as opposed to vicitm oriented...So I am gald at least in Australia there is a logical sense of justice free of political "gerrymandering...

This statement is absolute bullocks. I used to work for the Administration of Justice Task Force within the NYC OMB. I know about NY criminal code a lot more than the media does and, quite frankly, more than you. If you think things are easy for criminals in the New York State or City system, I urge you to go over to Rikers or Sing-Sing and you’d see that things are not as rosy or “criminal-oriented” as you’d believe. Jail is not a fun place to be even as a visitor. Besides, NYC has been ranking as the safest big city (even under Bloomberg) in the country for the last seven years with a crime rate comparable to most major Canadian and European cities. NYC is the ONLY major city whose crime rate went down last year. Since we’re talking about Atlanta, that city is always among the five most dangerous in the US. Obviously, we’re doing something right here, whether we’re “easy” on the criminals or not. Don’t believe everything you read or hear in the media because there’s a lot that goes on behind the scenes that people are clueless about.


User currently offline747-451 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2417 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2069 times:

Rai:

Giulianni was the best thing to ever happen to this city...and my statements are made for the Bloomberg Administration (aka Dinkins II), not under
Rudi. It is apalling that there is such "tampering" after the suspects in the case I mentioned were guilty and now exonerated for committing such a brutal crime...And it now appears that actually getting someone onto a prison now is an issue. Rikers is no party-I went out for a while with a female corrections officer and the things she told me!

New Jersey is okay, but it seems that if let's say you get a place in Ft. Lee, you end up getting a job in Parsippany. I did the 100 mile a day commute thing when I lived in LA and I don't want to do that again (Atlanta traffic is atrocious, but I would rather be there1). And it seems that all the good jobs are gotten through "nepotism", word of mouth, etc and good companies (eg Merck) aren't hiring...

As far as Manhattan, you are correct. When you have a great job the extra "premiums" of living in the city aren't a problem...but with the way things are now it is just an annoyance. As I said I was a "big time"  Yeah sure netwrok manager for an re insurance intermediary who failed after 9/11. I am working for a small ISP now. I also hate the view of the hole outside my window.  Sad

747-451


User currently offlineRai From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2065 times:

Giulianni was the best thing to ever happen to this city...and my statements are made for the Bloomberg Administration (aka Dinkins II), not under
Rudi. It is apalling that there is such "tampering" after the suspects in the case I mentioned were guilty and now exonerated for committing such a brutal crime...And it now appears that actually getting someone onto a prison now is an issue. Rikers is no party-I went out for a while with a female corrections officer and the things she told me!


As someone formerly on the inside and still has contacts there, I disagree with your assessment of Bloomberg. I’ve met the guy before and I honestly believe that he is the best man for the job at this point. This is a difficult situation the city is going through right now and Bloomberg is doing the best he can. Property taxes were increased, but income taxes went down). The city essentially has the same quality of life as it did before he took office and crime is DOWN and still going down. That’s the most important thing to me. Even with budget shortfalls which should effect how the NYPD does its job, it doesn’t and it still won’t. Besides, would you rather have Mark Green or Freddy Ferrer in charge? Not me…

Also, don’t forget that the city MUST have a balanced budget each year. That’s why it seems like things are pretty bad, and they are, but they will be better in the long run. NYC is quite possibly the only municipal entity that is required to have a balanced budget by law. LA doesn’t, neither does Atlanta or Chicago or any other major US city. They don’t plan ahead and they have huge liabilities. I’d hate to be in those places when their creditors come calling.

Dinkins was an embarrassment and pathetic for this city and, quite possibly, the worst mayor ever. Even civil servants speak lowly of him.

New Jersey is okay, but it seems that if let's say you get a place in Ft. Lee, you end up getting a job in Parsippany. I did the 100 mile a day commute thing when I lived in LA and I don't want to do that again (Atlanta traffic is atrocious, but I would rather be there1).

I really like Jersey. But I wouldn’t move there (or anywhere, really) until I find a job and I certainly wouldn’t move to a place where I’d have a long commute. If I move to Ft. lee, I’d want to work in Bergen Country.

But yeah, last time I went to ATL, the traffic was horrendous…worse than I experienced visiting LA.

And it seems that all the good jobs are gotten through "nepotism", word of mouth, etc and good companies (eg Merck) aren't hiring...

That’s the case everywhere, especially during these times. My friend (and also my father, actually) works in the pharmaceutical industry and he says Merck is probably the best and most honest of the lot (he works for Schering-Plough). When Merck hires, they usually do so through contracts and don’t hire that many permanent people…it’s always been their policy.


User currently offline747-451 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2417 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2063 times:

Rai:

I have no problem with a balanced budget and I know the city is going thru rough times. Kowever, it appears that Mr. Bloomberg knows his financial stuff, but has gone into politic/pander mode such as the give away to Randi Whine- garten ( a contract with no accountability--and even with control of the school system under mayoral supervision...you just TRY to fire an incopmpetent teacher... Yeah sure). Bloomy isn't the best man for the job; Rudi was but that is another issue because Green or Ferrer would be alot worse because there would be no conception let alone control of a budget. My compalint about Bloomy is that you have to run the city like a company in bankruptcy-make cuts of anything uneeded as opposed to dipping into the tax till. I doubt the change in my income taxes will offset the rent increase I get when my lease is up  Smile. Bloomy has announced I believe that he will not make cuts in the NYPD; which is good--because "petty crimes" are up already ( I am dealing once again with squeegee men and the 'ho's are back in force under the Gowanus).

NYC is the only city that has any sort of budget controls and accountibility in place. Los Angeles, when I lived there was in complete dissarry. And Atlanta is rife with corruption and graft (if you have been following the controversy about how contracts are handed out at Hartsfield for example and who could forget one of the APD's precients operating as a murder for hire operation). But that was during the Rudi Monarchy--one which made me proud to be an adopted New Yorker. However, don't forget that Bloomy switched parties before the election and actively 'ho'd and schilled for Hillary and his "economic policies appear to have morphed from Millionaire Successful Business man to Tax'nSpend Democrat. Mayor Dinkins was the absolute world worst politician this city ever knew, and that includes Boss Tweed as afar as I am concerned; it took ten years to recover from the $10000.oo headborads and rerouted flights over the US Open, let alone ripping this city to shreds socially and culturally (note the contrast of pragmatism NY vs. Sydney...).

"Joisey" is okay and parts are really beautiful; my friend Connie lives in Clinton and it is beautiful. If I could get a job out there, I would move there in a minute. Atlanta, well I should actually say Marietta, is where I want to be and it is more than just economics, it's family issues too and getting away from some of the pain I still feel after 9/11 and some ofthe friends I lost in the Towers....

Quite honestly, If I could work up the nerve I wouldmove to Sydney and really start over....!


User currently offlineRai From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2059 times:

You think you had it rough? I lost two friends who worked for Fuji Bank (another one slept in and luckily was late). I also had a close call myself as I used to work at 75 Park Place. I ended up losing my job due to the lingering effects of 9/11. So, I know damn well about 9/11 and its aftereffects. We have different ways of dealing with this issue, though. I don’t think running away would do me any good.

As far as the teacher salary increases, they came from the billions in mismanaged construction funds of the Board of Education. And believe me, they needed it, considering that NYC public school teachers are among the lowest paid in the nation. Their new salaries aren't even that high compared to what teachers make in Westchester, Jersey or other municipalities. Now, he should give the real heroes of the NYPD a raise because they are the ones who really deserve it. Besides, they’re revamping the entire BOE and it’ll be parents in charge of the system now instead of the bureaucrats. Rudy (as much as I love him) had eight years to fix the problem and he didn’t do jack shit.

The situation is pretty bleak and from what I hear from my friends who still work at OMB (they are the ones who set the budget), there really isn’t much else he can do (and I'm pretty conservative when it comes to economics). If you want to blame anyone, blame Osama or the backward-looking, politically motivated, interest-driven City Council. They are the ones who hold up much of the progress. Gifford Miller especially. Heck, I’d even go as far to blame those assholes in Washington who appear to be reneging on their promise to help the city out with $20+ billion in aid they said they'd provide. We haven’t received much of that money so far and they seem to be forgetful at fulfilling their duties. I voted for Bush in 2000, but it looks more and more likely that he will not receive my vote in 2004. He’s broken his promise to New York, as far as I’m concerned.

Like you, if I could start over, I’d move to Sydney as well. I also wouldn’t mind London or Hong Kong. Just somewhere foreign...


User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2040 times:

Scotty,

Redfern? I haven't lived there for over a year mate. I live back in the Inner Harbour - Cape Cabarita. lol

And get the *whatever* out of your mind, I'm a married man again these days.

Rai,

Sorry to hear you cities are in dissarray, ours all seem to be in good health with Sydney powering ahead. The Australian economy (for some reason) is leading the OECD. Sydney has been experiencing strong growth for decades, not sure what the true factors are but an educated workforce, a wonderful climate, low AUD, a beautiful environment, the Olympics and tonnes of tourism have made the city alive.

Even though we are in the middle of nowhere.  Big grin

mb


User currently offlineADG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 25, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2037 times:

Married?

all the goods ones are married or gay .. and now apparently both!

 Wow!





ADG


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