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The Failure Of Abstinence-Only Ed.  
User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 1162 times:

As George II tries to make this farce the law of the land, one only need to look back at his old pasture to see how it is hopelessly failing.(link)

Pay particular attention to some of the questions that it took an MTV forum on sex ed for these kids to get up enough courage to ask.

Abstinence-only education is a life wrecker. It's time for the pious to stop being so friggin stubborn & admit it.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A19148-2003Jan20.html

70 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSleekjet From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2046 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 1130 times:

Whether it fails or not, it is still the proper way to live. Just think about all the unwanted pregnancies and all the murderous abortions that abstinence prevents. Think about the self-esteem it nurtures. Think about the spiritual implications.


II Cor. 4:17-18
User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 1127 times:

Whether it fails or not, it is still the proper way to live

I'm not sure I disagree with you Sleek. I would preach further that routine, impulsive sex, minus love, eventually becomes a tiresome chore...and why on Earth would you water down that kind of fun!?

But that's the message you teach first. You teach respect, of yourself and the one person who's gonna knock you off your feet forever. You teach restraint. You teach common sense. Those are all the first, greatest messages.

But you gotta teach "back-up" too, man, it's just that simple. I've seen what HIV can do. AIDS has been beaten back from the guaranteed death sentence it used to be, but it is still a terminal disease. And it's raging everywhere else in the world. One of the reasons it isn't raging here is because from the mid 80s to the mid 90s it was drilled into everyone. Either don't do it or wear protection.

And that's what I truly despise about this dogma settling into schools. At best teach everything. At worst teach abstinence only. But don't declare some petty little war on rubbers because they're a symbol of being a dirty little Devil. Don't lie your ass off to propel what you see as God's Argument. Condoms aren't infallible. They break. But they also work. We've got 20 years of declining HIV infection rates in this country to prove it.


User currently offlineSleekjet From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2046 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 1121 times:

I see the only problem in teaching abstinence is that so many are incapable of restraint. But teaching "God's Argument" is not teaching a lie. Premarital sex and all its consequences leave lives in a debris trail from which many never recover. So much better to go ahead and do it "God's way".


II Cor. 4:17-18
User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 1116 times:

I see the only problem in teaching abstinence is that so many are incapable of restraint

Then I think we agree.

Being "incapable of restraint" is part of being young and not learning wisdom on your own, regardless of what your peers tell you. Not every kid drag races their car. But we should teach every kid to wear seat belts.

Being incapable of restraint shouldn't be a death sentence.

Look at those numbers in the article again. This town continues to have a chronic teen pregnancy problem , and reported STDs among teens are on the rise. If abstinence-only isn't cutting it in Lubbock, a town idealogically somewhere to the right of Billy Graham, it sure as heck isn't gonna work anywhere else.


User currently offlineMbmbos From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 1112 times:

Whether it fails or not, it is still the proper way to live. Just think about all the unwanted pregnancies and all the murderous abortions that abstinence prevents. Think about the self-esteem it nurtures. Think about the spiritual implications.

Huh?

Abstinence nurtures self-esteem? Spiritual implications to sex outside of marriage?

These kinds of comments are entirely circular, self-referential. If you believe that by having sex you have somehow cheapened yourself or the person you're with, then yes, you're going to have self-esteem issues. If you believe that there's a god on high that expects you to conform to a very narrow set of rules regulating the act of sex, then I suppose you've got spiritual problems.

How much guilt and judgment must we slather on our country's teens and young adults?

Look, as long as abstinence is encouraged as a choice - just as using a condom is a choice - I'm all for it.

But I'm not at all convinced that those people who are pushing for abstinence programs - many of whom speak out against condom/HIV protection programs - have any genuine interest in teaching our youth to make informed choices. More often than not, they want to shove their beliefs down everybody's throats.



User currently offlineAerLingus From China, joined Mar 2000, 2371 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 1107 times:

Whether or not abstainence is proper is not the issue. We all know that in a perfect world, no teen would have sex until adulthood and possibly marriage.
However, this world is not perfect and many teens are having plenty of sex.

To deny that fact is to turn a blind eye toward how our society works. It's simply a terrible case of denial and ignorance on the part of the Christian right that is motivating awful decisions like abstainence-only sex education. Strictly teaching abstainence poses more problems that teaching responsible sex, as it will breed sexually ignorant adults who are going to be more likely to be unaware of how to have safe sex and prevent STDs.



Get your patchouli stink outta my store!
User currently offlineStretch 8 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 2568 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 1097 times:

There was also an article in the Washington Post in the Sunday Style section describing the current adolescent practice of "hooking up;" i.e., boys and girls geeting together for mutual oral sex encounters (if I were a girl, I would demand service first  Big grin) What about circle jerks as a solution?



Maggs swings, it's a drive deep to left! The Tigers are going to the World Series!!!
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 1095 times:

Whether it fails or not, it is still the proper way to live. Just think about all the unwanted pregnancies and all the murderous abortions that abstinence prevents. Think about the self-esteem it nurtures. Think about the spiritual implications.

It IS the proper way, Sleekjet, but teens have been having sex since there were teens. Do you honestly think that since the President says "just say no", that kids will stop being curious and stop having sex. I agree with what you say, but you're burying your head in the sand here. Abstinence-only programs are going to lead to an explosion in things like unwanted pregnancies, HIV, AIDS, VD, simply because you'll have a generation of kids, if Right-wing nuts have their way, who have no idea HOW to protect themselves when they do jump the virginity ship. It's literally suicide for a lot of young people.

I see the only problem in teaching abstinence is that so many are incapable of restraint.

That's called being a teenager, Sleek. Again, you're overlooking the human element here. Yes, abstinence is the ideal way, but kids over a few millenia, have not remained so, have they? What makes you think that will change beause President Bush makes a law? Is this going to end up like the Scopes trial, and we'll send people to PRISON for teaching kids to be safe if they're going to be stupid and not listen to the abstinence message?

Look, I understand and I respect what President Bush is trying to promote here. I was 25 before I had sex (not entirely out of choice, mind you  Smile ), but I'm glad I waited. I wouldn't have been ready, nor would I have appreciated the experience at 16 or 18, even. It's a laudable goal, but it cannot stand alone. Unfortunately, throughout history, conservatives have disdaned education on some matters, and this is one of them.

They really, truly feel that if you teach "just say no", then kids will listen. They won't, at least not all of them will. Plus throw in the fact that parents, as a group (and I would imagine parents who are Conservative Christians more so) have a hard time talking sex with their kids. I know I will when the times comes. Do we just put out the "just say no" message ,and throw them to the wolves, so to speak. No, we can't afford to do that. We need to tell them "Look, if you're smart, you will not have sex while you're this young. However, if you're going to be stupid and not listen to me, at least protect yourself from getting pregnant, or catching a disease that could possibly kill you." We are failing our kids if we don't have this One-Two combination, that can make a strong, effective message.

Again, we see the chasm in American society between extremes. The far-left wants to continue the free-love message by not promoting abstinence, or in waiting, and feels just willy-nilly handing out condoms is the answer; and the far-right, with an equal but opposite reaction to the far-left, counters them by saying that they will only teach abstinence. Neither, in and of themselves, works. Together-again, a middle-ground, common-sense approach, is what is needed, and we're not getting it.

Abstinence only will cost kids their lives, in many ways. It's dangerous, it's not well thought-out, and it's another reaction of far-right, pie-in-the-sky thinking that has no basis in the real world.


User currently offlineSleekjet From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2046 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 1093 times:

A lot of you are acting like premarital sex is a wonderful, innocent choice that's okay because it involves consenting adults (or teens) and it's a free society, and on and on....

The fact is that it results in innumerable unwanted pregnancies. If the children are carried to term, often they are treated as unwanted strangers and are raised by someone besides a mother and father. If the unborn child is murdered, the consequences are grim. Please read the following article:

http://family.org/cforum/research/papers/a0001039.html



II Cor. 4:17-18
User currently offlineMbmbos From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 1086 times:

"A lot of you are acting like premarital sex is a wonderful, innocent choice that's okay because it involves consenting adults (or teens) and it's a free society, and on and on...."

Who has said this? Don't put words in other people's mouths. Debate their actualy words.

"The fact is that it results in innumerable unwanted pregnancies. "

Don't condoms prevent unwanted pregnancies?



User currently offlineTWAL1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 206 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 1078 times:

Just about any type of teaching is doomed to failure if it's not backed up in the home. Right?

User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 1073 times:

The problem is that neither school of thought fits the entire population so neatly. Abstinence-only will not benefit those kids that cannot control their urges and receive no support at home, while the other sends a signal to those that can that 'everyone else is doing it' and may compel them to experiment when they otherwise wouldn't, which undermines the teachings of abstinence at home where it exists. No one can claim EVERY teenager experiments and will have sex. I didn't and I didn't need courses. No one can say all teenagers can be taught abstinences, because many can't. So how about an answer to customize the sex-ed to the kid AND get parents more involved. Have two curriculums. One abstinence, one prevention. Make the parents choose which one they want their child to attend. Not only will it give parents more control, it may give kids better suited education PLUS it will make the parents more aware of the education their child is getting which may get them more involved.


"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineMbmbos From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 1059 times:

Jet Service,

You are right to say that no single teaching approach will prevent all unwanted pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases.

But what is your abstinence message? You speak of abstinence as if it were an absolute, as if not having sex as a teenager is the only correct action.

I would much rather teenagers be taught that they have choices and that their choices have consequences. Not only is this a more realistic way to get through to kids, it's also more respectful of them (they do have choices, after all; whether we like it or not, they have choices).

If, in teaching abstinence, you mean that kids should be taught not to be pressured into sex, via social pressure from peers or by an overly-aggressive partner, then I'm okay with teaching abstinence. If, in teaching abstinence, you mean that kids should be taught that birth control and STD control is not 100% effective, then I'm all for it. If, in teaching abstinence, you mean that kids should be taught that sex is more than a physical act, that there is an attending emotional (and possibly spiritual) connection as well, then I'm all for it.

But there is never a place in our public schools for propagating the notions that you will be called a "slut" if you have premarital sex, that you will feel shame if you have premarital sex, that there's no way to prevent getting diseases and getting pregnant, that God intends you to be married before you have sex, etc. This is just somebody's moralistic agenda.



User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 1055 times:

A lot of you are acting like premarital sex is a wonderful, innocent choice that's okay because it involves consenting adults (or teens) and it's a free society, and on and on....

I don't see that in any of the posts.

I think your programming is failing to allow the actual argument in.....in your post, you lament the wrongness of sex before marraige, then provide a link that ticks off selected items on abortion. Fine issues. But not this issue.

This issue centers around information or the lack thereof. When it comes to teens & sex its either hope for the best, plan for the worst, or expect the best and to hell with the worst. I sense you think those are conflicting messages. I simply see it as one message with a lifeline backup.

It's interesting you linked Focus on Family. Ten years ago when sex ed messages were exclusively condoms and birth control, Jimmy Dobson and his rather hypocritical ilk in the Springs demanded that abstinence be included, and screamed about how their message wasn't being given a fair chance. So it was. Now....well, you give an inch, they take a mile. Their dogma is that ONLY their message be the law of the land.

It's doing wonders in Lubbock.


User currently offlineKLAX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 1050 times:

Fact is, us teens are horny SOBs, and abstinence will never be completely effective...
I say, if you wanna get teens to stop having sex so much, legalize porn for the 14 and up group!!  Big thumbs up
Nobody ever got AIDS or anyone pregnant by wankin off'...


-Clovis


User currently offlineHepkat From Austria, joined Aug 2000, 2341 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 1042 times:

Once again we have puritanical forces at work. When will people stop burrying their heads in a Bible and really get out there and see the world for what it is? If we were meant to have sex at 18 or 21 then our bodies would come to sexual term at that age, period. This is nothing but a group of people trying to force their beliefs on an entire population. Nature clearly dictates that we become sexually active at a much earlier age than what the State defines as adulthood. It is Nature which endows young adults with the urge to have sex, not the young adults themselves. A man begins to sexually mature in his teens and reaches the peak of that maturity at approximately 21 years of age. From then on it's basically down hill. Women reach their peak of sexual maturity in their mid to late 30's or early 40's. Who is the President, or anyone else for that matter, to declare that we should control what Nature has given us? No one makes the choice to feel sexual, and I believe it's pointless to ask people to live contrary to their nature, or worse yet, teach them that what they naturally feel is "bad". How can it be?

Now, I'm not advocating that we all go out there humping everything in sight, just that we should make allowances for our nature, and begin adjusting our lifestyles accordingly. We need to realize that these old traditions and ideas of sex and marriage don't square with the natural inclinations of our bodies. It's pointless to try to prevent a young budding teen from wanting to have sex. It's a natural cycle in the process of their maturity. Rather, it makes infinitely more sense to teach them how to responsibly address these urges that they will eventually feel. Asking them to simply ignore these urges is not responsible. They could eventually indulge in misguided practices as a result of a lack of education; it is then that we will have failed the future generation.

I see the problem here as not one of unruly teenages unable to control their hedonistic urges, but that of PARENTS 1) avoiding the task of having to sit down with their kids and have a frank discussion about sex without the constant moralising and preaching, 2) failing their kids and attempting to shift the blame, 3) not accepting their children for who and what they are and 4) forcing their own beliefs and ways of life on their children instead of nurturing them and allowing them to choose the best path for themselves.

For some strange reason, many Americans are obsessed with placing too much faith in morality, righteousness and religion and fail to acknowledge that times are changing and that they should adapt accordingly. Instead of living in denial by preaching abstinence, these parents need to be sitting with their kids and explaining to them, look, this is how it works and this is how you do it responsibly. You have to inform them and allow them to choose.

Parents are rightfully afraid to place any trust in their children because they know they have failed them and they know they will ultimately make uninformed decisions. Perhaps this whole abstinence thing is just our guilt screaming out.



[Edited 2003-01-21 20:13:07]

User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 1035 times:

"But what is your abstinence message? You speak of abstinence as if it were an absolute, as if not having sex as a teenager is the only correct action."

Mbmbos, I speak of that message working for some and not for others; read: NOT an absolute. Who are you to say that is the wrong message for kids you don't even know. They aren't all the same, you know. If I'm a parent (and I am), I want to decide the message my kid gets. I don't want you or anyone else to decide because you don't know them nor how they are being brought up. If the school insists on sex-ed, then I want the message to reinforce the message I'm deliverying at home, not undermine it. There's no right or wrong answer here. If the message of either abstinence or pervention is delivered to every single kid, then I gaurantee some of those kids are getting the wrong message. Let the parents decide which message their kids get. Who would know better than them?



"Shaddap you!"
User currently offline777YYC From Canada, joined May 2000, 744 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 1027 times:

Pop quiz: Which country allows the Christian right to control social agendas(  Nuts ) and also has the highest teen pregnancy rates in the western world?

User currently offlineNormalSpeed From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 1022 times:

"We've got 20 years of declining HIV infection rates in this country to prove it."

Sorry, I'm not foolish enough to trust my life to "a declining rate of infection." Abstinance before marriage, and complete fidelity after.

...to say nothing of the religious perspective.

'Speed


User currently offlineAA61hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 20, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 1016 times:

I am not deeply religious. I say if two people love each other and want to express it, then go for it. The two people engaging in it should know the consequences. But you need to weigh out the after effects. Every time I have sex with my girlfriend I am fully aware that there is a chance she could be pregnant. I am willing to pay for my actions. But we do take the proper precautions. Every time before we "do the dirty" I think to myself what may happen. I am fully responsible for my actions, and my girlfriend is fully responsible for her actions. If she gets pregnant its BOTH our faults. Not just mine and not just hers.


Go big or go home
User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 1016 times:

Sorry, I'm not foolish enough to trust my life to "a declining rate of infection."

Fine, Normal. You made your decision. Bully for you.

But don't try to make that decision for every teenager in public schools, because more than a few of them are gonna rebel against you.

Rebel away, kid. But here's how to keep from having unwanted babies and getting a virus that will kill you in the process. Hopefully sooner rather than
later you'll gain some wisdom and see we were right all along.

Lubbock is preaching to the problem, with little to show for. But how worse can being aloof towards sex and its' moral implications get? A lot worse, as it turns out.

In July of 1993 merchants in the sprawling megapolis of Sao Paolo, Brazil felt their livelihood threatened by marauding bands of street kids, homeless and renegade, who were intimidating tourists and customers.

They hired a few off duty cops to take care of the problem. One night, the cops executed 8 of the kids and shot upwards of 70 more while they slept on a sidewalk. The sidewalk was right in front of the city's biggest Catholic cathedral.

But hey, the self-righteous, aloof attitude towards condoms and abortion was safe & secure inside that church. Still is. I'm sure there's no more street kids now too.


User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 1011 times:

"Christian right to control social agendas"

Excuse me, but public education is HARDLY controlled by the right!!!! You wanna rephrase your Quiz question? LMAO!!!!



"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineMbmbos From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 991 times:

Okay, JetService, this is what I'm reacting to:

"So how about an answer to customize the sex-ed to the kid AND get parents more involved. Have two curriculums. One abstinence, one prevention. Make the parents choose which one they want their child to attend. Not only will it give parents more control, it may give kids better suited education PLUS it will make the parents more aware of the education their child is getting which may get them more involved."

Only two curriculums? Do you think we can come up with one abstinence course that will satisfy everybody? You may want a public school's abstinence program to reinforce what you teach at home, and so do I. Problem is, the "abstinence" message that you choose to teach will most likely be different from mine.

That's the point that I was making. If you decide on teaching both birth control and abstinence, you still haven't solved the problem.



User currently offlineNormalSpeed From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 970 times:

"Fine, Normal. You made your decision."

Yes. Yes I did. And my greatest risk factor for getting AIDs is through a blood transfusion.

"But don't try to make that decision for every teenager in public schools, because more than a few of them are gonna rebel against you."

Heavy, you obviously feel strongly about this, and I'm not trying to get in an argument with you. If it came across that I was trying to force "every teenager" to go along with my brand of morality, then I apologize. That was not my intent. I just think it should be mentioned that there is only one way to guarantee protection from STDs and unwanted pregnacnies, and I think we all know what that is. But to believe that I actually could make the decision for all the teenagers would be a bit unrealistic. In the end, the decision is made at the individual level, and I have no control over that.

And yes, they may rebel. I will teach my children abstinance until marriage, and fidelity after. They may or may not accept it. In the end, it's their decision. But they should be aware of all of their options, including preserving the sanctity of marriage by saving yourself for that special someone.

"We need to realize that these old traditions and ideas of sex and marriage don't square with the natural inclinations of our bodies."

Bah. Some people are naturally inclined to steal things. Does that mean that they should do it anyway? Some people are naturally disposed to hating other types of people. Is that ok? It's natural for people to want lots of money, so we should look the other way when people "cook the books?"

Just something to think about, anyway.

'Speed



25 Mx5_boy : Heavymetal, Please tell me that this thread is a joke right? Please tell me again that one of the most advanced and intelligent nations in the world i
26 JetService : Right MxBoy, zealots are evil. So make a new kind of zealot in response. Tell us the one and only way we should teach our kids about sex. You are no b
27 Boeing4ever : Nothing but a religion bashing thread...no surprise. I'll reiterate what I've said before. Abstinence with Sex Ed. Not just one or the other. I don't
28 Mx5_boy : Jetservice, Can you give me one good reason why NOT to educate teens about the pitfalls of unprotected sex / the use of condoms and the horrors of tee
29 Boeing4ever : BTW-show me statistics that Abstinence is a true failure. I've seen statistics that more and more practice it. You really should be careful how you wo
30 Boeing4ever : Education is the key, rather than some ridiculous religious dogma that is irrellevant in the 21st century. As opposed to the idiot-dogma that a Condom
31 Post contains images Boeing4ever : Nobody ever got AIDS or anyone pregnant by wankin off'... "Sex can wait, Masturbate!" And now ladies and gentlemen, along with abstinence and contrace
32 Mx5_boy : B4E, """It is a threat to middle America.""" ??? I was referrring to *Abstinance Only*, common sense in a sex-ed classroom would point out that abstin
33 JetService : "Can you give me one good reason why NOT to educate teens about the pitfalls of unprotected sex / the use of condoms and the horrors of teen childbirt
34 Heavymetal : show me statistics that Abstinence is a true failure. Read the article linked in my post. And read my thread topic headline again. Your post seems lik
35 Post contains links Rai : Here's an interesting link that compares teenage pregnancy state-by-state. Seems like states that are most likely to promote an absinence only program
36 Mx5_boy : Jetservice says: """MxBoy, sure, if a parent is teaching a child abstinence, then this can undermine their efforts by giving them mixed messages. What
37 NormalSpeed : "...As opposed to the idiot-dogma that a Condom cures all...guess what...that's the equivilant of Russian Roulette in the 21st century." Well said, B4
38 Rai : Aside from Alpha 1, how many of you actually waited and "saved yourselves"? Sleekjet? 'Speed? Jet? Have any of you ever had sex before marriage? Pleas
39 Mx5_boy : 'Speed, A condom is the best protection you can have if your having sex with different partners or one night stands. It might not be 100% protection b
40 Post contains images Superfly :
41 Post contains images Indianguy : Just one question. Does this whole Abstinence thing mean no more masturbation as well? Imagine the millions of poor, innocent sperms killed in one "mu
42 Post contains images Heavymetal : Ok, so a condom prevents 99 out of 100 people from getting a fatal disease. You're doing good, Normal. You should be a statistician for Focus On Famil
43 JetService : Please don't lump me in with the 'abstinence only' crowd. If you do, you're missing the point I'm trying to make. And Mx_boy, you are REALLY missing m
44 Mbmbos : Superfly, If you ever run for president, please let me know. You've got my vote and a campaign contribution.
45 Post contains images Alpha 1 : A lot of you are acting like premarital sex is a wonderful, innocent choice that's okay because it involves consenting adults (or teens) and it's a fr
46 Mirrodie : This is a tough call. I mean, regardless of religious overview, abstinence can be a great thing. But moreover, the issue is not absitinence but instea
47 NormalSpeed : "Where on earth do you get the figures of 1 in 100 people getting infected by disease from condom breakage?" "You're doing good, Normal. You should be
48 Mbmbos : "And the side that preaches free distribution of condoms and are telling kids to go have at it..." Oh, Alpha1, please practice what you preach. Don't
49 Post contains images KLAX : We have water balloon fights with the free condoms they give us at our school. -Clovis
50 MD-90 : Well, my high school never had sex ed classes of any sort. And if someone got pregnant while still in high school, it's so rare it's remembered. Last
51 Post contains links Rai : We have no sex ed, and we don't seem to have problems with sex in our town. Of course, that could be because I live deep in the heart of the Bible Bel
52 Heavymetal : We have no sex ed, and we don't seem to have problems with sex in our town At least none that anyone will talk about. Sorry, MD. I grew up in a small
53 Tincan : Haha, this thread is awesome. All the bible thumpers with their 1950 view of the world.
54 AA61hvy : Like I said earlier, everytime I put that condom on I am aware of what disease I could get. But luckily my girlfriend doesn't have any (trust me). I t
55 Post contains images Superfly : MD-90: I live deep in the heart of the Bible Belt. Ya'll even got computers?
56 MD-90 : You misspelled y'all, brilliant. Well, there's also the factor that we're about 15 miles away from Huntsville, which for a long time was one of the fa
57 MD-90 : And I'll tell you what (as Superfly laughably criticizes a city close to the Redstone Arsenal and Marshal Spaceflight Center) we do have. Our girls ba
58 Post contains images Superfly : Yee- Ha! It was them damn Union soldiers that must a stopped Huntsville's growth!
59 Superfly : MD-90: Honestly I don't mean to poke fun at your part of the world. It's just hard to believe that someone as young as you sounds so stiff.
60 Post contains images Boeing4ever : Read the article linked in my post. And read my thread topic headline again. Your post seems like it ignored both. And since everything to the left of
61 NormalSpeed : "Fess up, you want to erradicate abstinence and encourage teens to experiment with sex. If a teen chooses to abstain, he has been "corrupted by the ri
62 Heavymetal : A point without proof isn't a point. My contention is being proven everyday. His isn't. Fess up, you want to erradicate abstinence and encourage teens
63 Mx5_boy : MD-90 says: """You know what the idea of a big scandal is around here? You should've seen the ruckus when one of my friends was discovered to have pla
64 Boeing4ever : I'm also into clearing mine fields with kindergarten classes, doing shots with Girls Scouts and the odd fondle of small rodents. I mean if you're goin
65 Mx5_boy : B4EVA, Sorry you took my reply to mean that. I was just explaining my stance due to the religious right making all the noise. I wasn't calling you an
66 Alpha 1 : I was just explaining my stance due to the religious right making all the noise. Is your stance against teaching abstinence, Mx_5boy, solely based on
67 Mx5_boy : Alpha1, I do not agree with the extreme right as it's base is on sex being dirty and bad [mentality], which we all know it's not. Having abstinance as
68 Alpha 1 : Thanks for the response, Mx. I think the word "neutral approach", in this context, is the right one. You don't need to tell kids they'll be damned to
69 Mx5_boy : Alpha1, That's how it' taught in Sydney schools, a very neutral, balanced approach. I was totally shocked when I first read this thread that anyone wo
70 NormalSpeed : Mx5_Boy wrote: "I do not agree with the extreme right as it's base is on sex being dirty and bad [mentality], which we all know it's not." Heavymetal
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