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Joe Liebermans Letter To French People  
User currently offlineElal106 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 975 posts, RR: 4
Posted (11 years 6 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2197 times:

> > PEN LETTER TO THE FRENCH PEOPLE < <
> > FROM SENATOR JOE LIEBERMAN < <

TO THE PEOPLE OF FRANCE - IN REMEMBRANCE

Liberty, equality, fraternity! Does the French nation recall that
slogan?

The current French tolerance of and indifference to the wave of
attacks upon French Jews speaks clearly of the decline of the French national
character.

The French have forgotten! Two hundred and some odd years ago the
suffering French populace erupted in revolution against tyranny. They
cried for and fought for liberty, fraternity, equality for all in every
aspect of French society.

The French have forgotten! But I remember! I still have in my mind the
heartbreaking image of the Parisian gentleman from whose eyes the tears
fell copiously as he watched the Nazi troops marching triumphantly into
Paris. -The face of that Frenchman still lives in my mind sixty years
later. It is the same as the faces of so many French Jews today.

The French have forgotten! But I remember! I remember the ecstasy, the
flowers, the kisses with which the French people greeted their American
and British liberators from Nazi terror.

The French have forgotten! - They have forgotten the dehumanizing
result of terror upon them- selves. - They have forgotten the shame of
Vichy France. - Those who watch with indifference the attacks upon their
neighbors sink into degeneracy themselves.

The French have forgotten brotherhood and love of others than
themselves. - They have forgotten equal justice. - They have forgotten
that a nation without strength of morality and character is a nation
already in the lower depths of degradation.

So, just as the Swiss were part of the Nazi problem sixty years ago,
the French are part of the problem of world terrorism today. - As the
French casually watch their Jewish citizens attacked let them remember
how they, the French, acquiesced in cowardice at the rape of
Czechoslovakia by the Nazis in 1938, only to suffer under the Nazi heel
so soon after.

My contempt for present day France is accompanied by great regret. We
gave the lives of American boys to save them once. - They have
forgotten.

However, we Americans have not forgotten. - All Americans with
integrity of character must boycott France.
I hope large numbers of you will join me in this.


Joe Lieberman

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePHX-LJU From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2158 times:

You, Elal106, have just posted a vicious anti-French lie. Sen. Lieberman, a wise, intelligent, and tolerant man, never did attack the wonderful nation of France in this sickening way, and he certainly did not call anyone to boycott it.

Whether you did this out of ignorance or malice, you should certainly be ashamed for spreading such idiotic propaganda!

You can find more details on this lie here: http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/leiberman-france.htm


User currently offlinePHX-LJU From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 6 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2131 times:

And another thing, Elal106. Based on your username and profile, I'm guessing that you are Jewish. Considering that your people have suffered much throughout history because of wild anti-Semitic rumors started by spineless provocateurs, shouldn't you have more sense than to do the same thing by posting potentially destructive rumors about other people and nations (i.e. that Lieberman is urging a boycott of France)?

User currently offlineDelta-flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2676 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (11 years 6 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2118 times:

As I read the "Lieberman" article, I was becoming suspicious about its authenticity ... it did not come across like something an aspiring presidential candidate would write. I'm glad to see that it is a hoax. Good job, PHX, for getting at the truth.

I would suggest that members not post articles or exerpts without a link to the original, so readers can check out the credibility of the source. Besides, it's the rule on A.net.

Pete


User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (11 years 6 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2113 times:

This is the biggest piece of bull $hit i've ever seen. France honestly does not have an anti-semetic problem. I was just there less than a year ago myself, both in Paris and in more rural areas. I did not notice a twinge of anti-semetism. I swear, people just pull this "Europe is anti-semetic" attitude out of their @sses. And bringing WWII in is just ridiculous. This was written by some anti-French bastard with too much time on his hands.

User currently offlinePHX-LJU From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 6 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2102 times:

Delta-flyer wrote:

"As I read the "Lieberman" article, I was becoming suspicious about its authenticity ... it did not come across like something an aspiring presidential candidate would write. I'm glad to see that it is a hoax. Good job, PHX, for getting at the truth."

Thanks, Pete. I had never heard about this e-mail either, but I also immediately recognized it as a fake. In my view, this e-mail is offensive to both a great country (France) and a great Senator (Joseph Lieberman, who would never write such nonsense and has apparently already "referred the letter to legal authorities," according to truthorfiction.com).

It amazes me how many times people post anonymous e-mails, commentaries with nonexistant or questionable sources, undisguised propaganda from publications such as frontpagemag.com, etc., without questioning their credibility or authenticity. Use some common sense, people!

Cba wrote:

"This was written by some anti-French bastard with too much time on his hands."

I agree 100%.


User currently offlineElal106 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 975 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (11 years 6 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2077 times:

Dear All who read,


I would first like to apologize to anyone who read this and was offended in any way. Especially to PHX-LJU, Delta-flyer, and Cba. I am glad to find out this is false letter. It was forwarded down to me from one of my teachers who found it interesting who was forwarded on to him from another colleague teacher. I found it interesting myself and posted it on airliners.net forums as they have quite interesting things. I do not have anything against France, Mr. Liberman, the USA or anyone and I would like to apologize once again for an inconvenience I may have caused. Thanks very much for expressing your opinions as this is a forum, where its important to express such thoughts, especially to such misleading letters as the one i posted unknowingly. Immediately after seeing your responses I have emailed my teacher about its fakeness and it would make a great topic in class next time! May we all be in peace one day and all the best to you in your endeavors.


ElAL106


User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 7, posted (11 years 6 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2064 times:

. France honestly does not have an anti-semetic problem.

A country where the police does nothing to track down people who burn synagoges yet is up in arms when someone throws in the windows of a mosque has no problems with anti-semitism?

I agree this letter is likely falsely attributed to mr. Liebermann. It would be political suicide for him to publish something like this and he isn't like that (he still wants to be president?).

But the general tone is correct, the French (or at least their politicians) have forgotten the foundations of their republic for fear of loosing the favour of the Arab nations (and the votes of their own Arab minorities).
This started over 30 years ago when France impounded aircraft and ships ordered and paid for by Israel with the intent of weakening that country so its enemies could destroy it thus guaranteeing the favour of the oil producing nations in the Middle East.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlinePHX-LJU From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (11 years 6 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2071 times:

That was very nice of you, Elal106. Maybe I was too harsh in my original responses; I now realize that your intention was not to hurt anyone, and I am very grateful for that. I am just tired of some people constantly bashing other nations with no reason whatsoever (unfortunately, a.net members of all nationalities are guilty of that); that is why I reacted forecefully, perhaps too much so, now knowing the story behind it all. I had -- prematurely -- assumed that you had a political agenda.

We should all avoid posting articles whose credibility or authenticity may be questionable. Having said that, we all make mistakes, and I not only forgive you 100%, but urge all others to do the same. You are a good person for responding the way you did and I, too, wish you all the best!


User currently offlinePHX-LJU From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 6 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2062 times:

Jwenting wrote:

"I agree this letter is likely falsely attributed to mr. Liebermann."

You can safely take out the word "likely."

"A country where the police does nothing to track down people who burn synagoges yet is up in arms when someone throws in the windows of a mosque has no problems with anti-semitism?"

May I ask for some evidence of this alleged double-standard (maybe an article from a centrist, mainstream publication)?

"But the general tone is correct, the French (or at least their politicians) have forgotten the foundations of their republic for fear of loosing the favour of the Arab nations (and the votes of their own Arab minorities)."

In what way have the French "forgotten the foundations of their republic"? You may not agree with their Mideast policy, but I fail to see how that supports your claim.

[Edited 2003-01-23 09:24:41]

User currently offlinePHX-LJU From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 6 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2065 times:

And P.S., Jwenting, if you claim that "the general tone" of this spam e-mail is correct, do you also support a boycott of France? That, after all, is the point of this, IMHO, sad and misguided letter.

User currently offlineTurin_airport From Italy, joined Oct 2001, 278 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (11 years 6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2052 times:

Discussions about anti-Semitic new wave in Europe have been done many times before here at A.net.
Every time European members tried to make understand their American friends that anti-Semitic feelings are not rising in Europe (with little success, I'm afraid...).
Now it's clear to me that in the U.S., nowadays, someone wants to instil into people's mind this idea (wrong idea...).

So, I have two questions for A.net U.S. members:

1_ Who is he (or them)?

and

2_ Why?

Thank you

Ciao.

T_a


User currently offlinePHX-LJU From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2045 times:

Those who claim that anti-Semitism is on the rise in Europe should read this informative and fair Time Europe article (I've posted the link before):

http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/2002/0617/antisemitism/story.html

The article largely supports the notion that the anti-Semitic attacks in France and elsewhere in Europe are carried out either by a.) groups of fanatical Muslims or b.) by far-right extremists that hate all immigrants equally and are just as likely to attack mosques as synagogues.

Emmanuel Weintraub, chairman of the French section of the World Jewish Congress says in the article that "anti-Semitism [in France] is a rather quiet and drowsy thing. It might awake one day, but it hasn't awakened now." (my bolding)

Wolfgang Benz, director of the Center of Anti-Semitic Research at Berlin's Technical University is quoted as saying that "he recognizes the seriousness of these incidents, and agrees that a taboo against criticizing Israel has been breached," but that "he doesn't see a trend of growing anti-Semitism in Germany." (my bolding)


User currently offlineTwaneedsnohelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (11 years 6 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2014 times:

thanks PHX for disclosing this letter as a lie. As soon as i started reading it, I also quickly sensed that it was not truthfully the work of Joe Lieberman.

Thank you also ELAL for realizing the mistake and apologizing for it.

TNNH


User currently offlineErj190 From Portugal, joined Dec 2000, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (11 years 6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1994 times:

"...France impounded aircraft and ships ordered and paid for by Israel with the intent of weakening that country so its enemies could destroy it thus guaranteeing the favor of the oil producing nations in the Middle East..."

Think this post by Jwenting makes absolutely no sense.

Do you really think in your own mind that Israel could develop weapons like the Kfir fighter, which is basically a Mirage, without the help of France ?

What kind of technology was used by Israel to produce their 500 inexistent nuclear bombs ?

Who supplied Israel with Nuclear technology when America threatened to stop supplies to Israel if they insisted in going ahead with their nuclear program ?

I think that without France, maybe there was no Israel.

what happens is that the position of Israel towards the Palestinian state is more and more criticized because it is unacceptable. The Fact that even today Israel keeps promoting the occupation of Palestinian land, in places that clearly are not and never were part of Israel, is transforming Israel, from a country with which people sympathized to one that people see as a place ruled by evil fanatics that want to impose their law at all costs.


User currently offlineTWAL1011 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 202 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (11 years 6 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1973 times:

I spotted it as a hoax right away. The letter contains numerous exclamation marks. Anyone who has listened to Lieberman talk, knows he would never use an !  Smile

User currently offlineRai From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (11 years 6 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1967 times:

No anti-Semitism in France? This BBC article suggests otherwise. Remember, BBC is the "bastion" of unbiased a fair reporting.  Yeah sure

Indeed the violence in the Middle East was seen as one of the reasons for a series of attacks on French synagogues last year. With Europe's largest Arab and Jewish communities, France is ever sensitive to the possibility of violence far away being reflected close to home.

And now after a relatively calm few months the malaise is creeping back.

There was an anti-Israeli element at Paris anti-war demonstrations
At the weekend's anti-war demonstrations it was noticeable how many protesters sang anti-Israeli songs, while just a few weeks ago a liberal Rabbi in Paris was stabbed and had his car set on fire for reasons which remain obscure




User currently offlineTwaneedsnohelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (11 years 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

on fire for reasons which remain obscure

OBSCURE?? OBSCUREE????

He was attacked because he was Jewish, just like in 1939.



User currently offlineStaffan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (11 years 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1946 times:

So when my friend got beaten to unconciousness, it was because he was Swedish?

Staffan


User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (11 years 6 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1942 times:

The isolated actions of militant Islamic supporters cannot be used to claim that France is an anti-Semetic country. Those militants would attack Jews regardless of the country that they are living in. France happens to have a large North African Arab population, this increases the number of militants coming into the country. France has done a lot to stop them. I recall reading about an anti-terrorist judge who has thwarted many possible attacks.


User currently offlineTodaReisinger From Switzerland, joined Mar 2001, 2804 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (11 years 6 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1893 times:

Do you really think in your own mind that Israel could develop weapons like the Kfir fighter, which is basically a Mirage, without the help of France ?

With the help of France? Well, the Kfir is indeed a kind of Mirage, but its developpment is not at all the result of an Israel-France cooperation...: the Mirage plans on which the Kfir has been designed were stolen in Switzerland.



I bitterly miss the livery that should never have been changed (repetition...)
User currently offlineDelta-flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2676 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (11 years 6 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1876 times:

Do you really think in your own mind that Israel could develop weapons like the Kfir fighter, which is basically a Mirage, without the help of France ?


By the late 60's, Israel had fallen out of favor with France and the French did indeed impound 3 ships that were ordered and paid for by Israel. (An Israeli commando force subsequently "stole" the ships during the night and sailed them to Israel.)

Israel by then had a number of Mirages, and they certainly had the know-how to reverse engineer them and improve them. And that's exactly what they did to create the Kfir.

ElAl106.....No need to apologize ... there is nothing wrong with posting stuff like this, just be sure to provide he link to its source.

Cheers,
Pete


User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (11 years 6 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1863 times:

Israel had extensive links with the South African government in the 1970s and 1980s.
Not because they liked them, but because they needed eachother.

South Africa had natural resources (especially uranium, gold and diamonds), Israel has excellent engineers and electronics.
Together they created nuclear weapons for both, as well as advanced military systems (inluding the Israeli Kfir and RSA Cheetah which are based on stolen Mirage plans).

Nuclear tests could be conducted in relative secrecy on islands off the Namib coast, which would be impossible in or near Israel.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineTwaneedsnohelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (11 years 6 months 4 days ago) and read 1834 times:

Israel takes care of itself.

User currently offlineTodareisinger From Switzerland, joined Mar 2001, 2804 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (11 years 6 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1827 times:

Israel by then had a number of Mirages, and they certainly had the know-how to reverse engineer them and improve them. And that's exactly what they did to create the Kfir.

But to build the fighter jet they needed the plans...and "found" them in Switzerland.


The sudden change in de Gaulle's policies greatly frightened Israel, which was totally dependant on French weapons; the consequence was a desire to become more self-reliant in this field, which resulted in the developpment of the Kfir and Nesher fighters or the Merkava tank; a totally new fighter plane called the Lavi was developped in the 1980s, but the project was finally cancelled because of financial problems...




I bitterly miss the livery that should never have been changed (repetition...)
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