Indianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 717 times:
The US president has given the rest of world a new mantra: Preventive Defense. Armed aggression to tackle not just existing, but POTENTIAL enemies who MAY come up in the future. Tackle Terror BEFORE it happens. And UN? What is that? An impotent talk-shop, nothing mroe, taht deserves every bit of the contempt it gets.
And some of the members of the American far-right who regularly invade this board as well, have rather enthusiastically supported this stand. I must say that I am beginning to accept that Preventive Defense is starting to make sense to me. You know Alpha1, N79969 etc: You were right, and I was sooo wrong! I must apologise for having doubted your intelligence for so long! The countries
of the world must learn to show the UN the finger. Thats the only way we can prevent Freedom, Democracy etc... from being destroyed by Muslim/Jewish/Hindu/(any other enemy you can think of..).
Lets take some test cases wchih show how other countries can bring peace by following the American example.
Scenario 1: China is faced in the south with a recalcitrant "province" that just doesnt stay in
line. It continues to equip itself with weapons (including WMD's) that are far in excess of its legitimate defense requirements. Taiwan also allows its territory and airspace to be used by the Americans for acts of aggression against the Chinese people, like spying for example. Worse, encouraged by the unscrupulous Americans, Taiwan on more than one occasion has been extremely beligerent.
Solution: The Chinese take to this mantra of Preventive defense, and launch a large scale invasion of Taiwan, and occupy it, smashing all opposition that may come in its way. After all, Taiwan could one day be the staging post for American action against China! So before that happens...!
Scenario 2:The newly independent Soviet repulics of Ukraine and especially Georgia, under American influence, have been sheltering and abetting Chechnyan Terrorists and provoking them to attack Russian targets and systematically bleed the Russian Army. Also Georgian territory is being increasingly used by the US intelligence to monitor Russian military and other secrets using Electronic Intelligence devices installed on Georgian territory.
Solution: This wont exactly fit into "Preventive Defense" since the threat already exists, the hostile acts are already happening. Georgian territory IS being used for anti-Russian activity. So The Russian Army takes over tiny Georgia in a swift overnight military offensive. Relatively an easy task since it surrounded on 3 sides by Russian territory.
The vast territory of Ukraine would pose more of a problem. So the Russian secret service would be used to fuel discontent in this territory and Russia could use the ensuing instability to take over the province.
Scenario 3: South Korea has been behaving increasingly nasty towards the North. Whats more it has been practising military manouvers with the Americans, that are not Defensive, but Offensive in Nature. They have practising manouvers simulating an all out invasion of North Korea which is a threat to the People's Republic.
Solution: The desperate North Korean leadership launches preliminary strikes against US bases in the Pacific using long range IRBM's followed by a massive invasion of South Korea freeing the south from the US imperialist influence. After the US retaliates, the Koreans bring out their Bramha-astra hidden for so long: The Nodong-4, which can strike the US cities on the west coast with Nuclear warheads.
Scenario 4:Encouraged by US support, the Military regime in Pakistan continues to funnel terrorists into Indian Kashmir inspite of warnings to desist. The Americans, much to India's fury, has been ignoring the terrorist links of the Pakistani leadership and its continued support to terror. Worse, Pakistani nuclear scientists are supplying nuclear technology to unstable regimes like North Korea
in return for Missile Technology, as well as to certain countries in the Middle East like Syria which affects Indian interests. The UN has failed to keep the Pakistani's in check and India is being given a bloody nose due to terror coming from across the border.
Solution: Indian troops move across the border into Baltistan in PoK. But this is only a feint designed to distract the Pakis.
Indian and Israeli special forces (who had been training together since Feb-2001 for this) launch a secret operation to defang Pakistan of its nuclear warheads known to be spread across half a dozen locations.
Once the nuclear weapons have been dismantled, a huge cavalry group crosses the border at Pathankot, aiming for the city of Lahore, while another even larger cavalry group, crossing the border from Jaisalmer, heads south along the Dera Ghazi Ghan axis to liberate Sindh and Baluch, effectively ending Pakistans nationhood.
Meanwhile Agni-1 and Prithvi missiles carrying "special payloads" are launched at at nerve centres in Pakistan to tackle any remaining opposition and bringing a quick end to the war.
There you have it. 4 countries, facing 4 problems, all of which compounded by the UN's inability and impotence to act and keep misbehaving member states in check. Solution: Screw the international community and take matters into you own hands. Bush and his pet poodle have jsut done exactly that in Iraq, so theres nothing wrong with that! Nobody asks Victors any questions! The UN was an unncessary pain anyway, you know where! So Bush has done us all a big favor by beating it into irrelevance.
Now, finally after 55 years, each country can look out for his own, without the nuisance of the UN! It couldnt have got any better!
Cfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 693 times:
Interesting concept, but a few flaws:
China vs Taiwan: Taiwan is a democracy, China is not. Taiwan has no intentions, capability, or reason to attack China. 'Nuff said.
Russia vs Ukraine & Georgia: First of all, I would like to know where you get the idea that the U.S. is supporting the Chechens. That is ludecrous.
As far as Ukraine and Georgia supporting the Chechens, if this is true, then Russia has an issue. But the burden of proof is on Russia to provide some kind of evidence of national involvement.
South Korea: Your contention that South Korea is a threat to North Korea is laughable. South Korea just wants to do business in peace, and must be able to defend itself from the very large army poised across its borders, and inumerable small attacks and incursions, not to mention an outright invasion from its northern neighbor who has repeatedly claimed the intention to unify the Korean peninsula under the the Great Leader (and now the Dear Leader)
India and Pakistan: I agree that Pakistan has misbehaved badly concerning Kashmir. But the problem is very deep - It is not only the government of Pakistan who is providing sanctuary at the least, at the most active assistance. It is the people of Pakistan who are fanatically supportive of the terrorists, which goes to a central question: Why is it that in the great majority of the Islamic World, terrorism is a morally acceptable option, and how can such attitudes be changed in the long run?
Indianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 670 times:
Taiwan has no intentions, capability, or reason to attack China. 'Nuff said.
As if Iraq does! Its perception that counts now doesnt it?
But the burden of proof is on Russia to provide some kind of evidence of national involvement
So you are saying that evidence matters? Well, my view is that it doesnt. George Bush has just shown us by example.
South Korea just wants to do business in peace, and must be able to defend itself from the very large army poised across its borders, and inumerable small attacks and incursions, not to mention an outright invasion from its northern neighbor who has repeatedly claimed the intention to unify the Korean peninsula under the the Great Leader (and now the Dear Leader)
Again, perception. You would like to give the South oreans the benefit of doubt, if only to win this argument. Why not the Iraqi's?
It is not only the government of Pakistan who is providing sanctuary at the least, at the most active assistance. It is the people of Pakistan who are fanatically supportive of the terrorists, which goes to a central question: Why is it that in the great majority of the Islamic World, terrorism is a morally acceptable option, and how can such attitudes be changed in the long run?
Why do you ignore the possibility of the Iraqi people being supportive of Iraq holding on to its WMD's? As to why terrorism is a morally acceptable option for the "islamic World" (as if Muslims inhabit a different planet/World!), America has to ask itself that question. And is the conflict with Iraq going to change that?
OO-AOG From Switzerland, joined Dec 2000, 1426 posts, RR: 4 Reply 3, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 649 times:
Preventive defense should have a priority number one, source and stop the arm dealers, especially those getting weapons from Russia, I have in mind those suitcase nukes devices. If a few of thoses "sweeties" are transported and hidden in western cities, I mainly think to the USA, the result will be way more terrible than 9-11. Instead of invading Iraq, Bush should spend the billions of USD to really FIGHT terrorism, and therefore a good idea would be to help russia to control their arms reserves. Don't forget that those "specialists" such as Victor Bout are still missing....