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Hans Blix: Acountability / Responsibility  
User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 904 times:

Hi,
I just watched the IRAQI monitering committee press conference this morning, where the head person declared to the world media that "Mr Hans Blix has now reported that IRAQ is weapons free, and where Mr Hans Blix has declared that the Americans and British are submitting fake documents" he has called for all sanctions to be lifted.

This press conference goes out worldwide, and the French, German and all the arab countries watch it and hear that Mr Blix has reported that IRAQ is weapons free.

WHY is it that Mr Blix doesn't go public in rebuttal of these comments ? He has a responsibility to the world community, and he should be saying " I certainly DID NOT say that IRAQ is weapons free, and reiterate his questions about where the 6500 warheads that are unaccounted for are, where the VX gas that is unaccounted for.

Lately, he seems to be a little absent minded about the IRAQI drone with chemical sprayer that was flying about, he left it out of his report, yet a document that turns out to be innaccurate is brought by him to a press conference.

All this does is fuel anti war sentiment, but isn't actually true.

I think America and Britain should hold referendums on what the country wants, if the people of America and the People of Britain vote that they do not want to go to war (which they will) then Bush and Blair should then be able to say to their people that "We respect your choice and will abide by it, BUT, with this, we cannot protect you, and cannot be criticised when the next attack happens, as you have tied our hands.

When the next attack happens, or whenever the US troops end up covered in VX gas, the world will not say "oh, I thought IRAQ didn't have those, they will say America provoked it"

Saddamed if you do, Saddamed if you dont


15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 899 times:

That's just a spin on Iraq's part, Artsyman, and even those nations that have been against an attack on Iraq will, most likely, shake their heads and ruefully smile to themselves. No one really believes that Iraq is WMD-free, except a few Great Gullibles in the world. It's a propaganda fight right now, and Iraq is getting in a counter punch. A weak one, but a punch nonetheless.

User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 2, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 891 times:

No one in Europe is falling for iraqi propaganda. They may try to leech on to the peace movement, but I see no sign of our governments relenting on their push for intensified inspections and disarmament.

And again, the drones have been reported before and are being investigated by the inspectors.


User currently offlineSchoenorama From Spain, joined Apr 2001, 2440 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 887 times:

TO Artsyman:

"I just watched the IRAQI monitering committee press conference this morning, where the head person declared to the world media that "Mr Hans Blix has now reported that IRAQ is weapons free, and where Mr Hans Blix has declared that the Americans and British are submitting fake documents" he has called for all sanctions to be lifted."

Well, if it's been on IRAQI monitering committee then it MUST be true, musn't it?

"This press conference goes out worldwide, and the French, German and all the arab countries watch it and hear that Mr Blix has reported that IRAQ is weapons free."

Yes, here in Europe we ALL take for granted WHATEVER the IRAQI monitering committee say.

"WHY is it that Mr Blix doesn't go public in rebuttal of these comments ?"

Maybe, just maybe, because it is so bleedin' obvious that it isn't true? Just a lucky guess...

"Lately, he seems to be a little absent minded about the IRAQI drone with chemical sprayer that was flying about, he left it out of his report, yet a document that turns out to be innaccurate is brought by him to a press conference."

Well, lets face it, Blix isn't the youngest around. Let's re-asign Scott Ritter!

"I think America and Britain should hold referendums on what the country wants, if the people of America and the People of Britain vote that they do not want to go to war (which they will) then Bush and Blair should then be able to say to their people that "We respect your choice and will abide by it, BUT, with this, we cannot protect you, and cannot be criticised when the next attack happens, as you have tied our hands."

Supprise, those 'referendums' were already hold some time ago, although people normally call them 'elections'.

"When the next attack happens, or whenever the US troops end up covered in VX gas, the world will not say "oh, I thought IRAQ didn't have those, they will say America provoked it"

I get the impression you haven't been totally honest when you stated your age range in your profile.

For once I agree with Alpha1, it's all pure PROPAGANDA.



Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 4, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 867 times:

I get the impression you haven't been totally honest when you stated your age range in your profile.
************************

The only lack of honesty in this is that there isnt a specific 33 to be put in, so I have to enter the 25-45 or whatever it is. I wasnt suggesting that people are falling for this, I was suggesting that it inflames the situation, and gives fuel to the arab world and the typical anti american machine. I was also refering to a specific referendum on the war, not on elections of a party.

Like the Bath party and the arabs, you will read into what every you read with what you want it to say


User currently offlineCwapilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1166 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 859 times:

Hans Blix and accountability...here's a good indication of whom he is resposible to....or better yet, beholden to (see related thread as well):
http://smh.com.au/articles/2003/03/10/1047144905638.html



Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
User currently offlineSchoenorama From Spain, joined Apr 2001, 2440 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 845 times:

To Artsyman:

"The only lack of honesty in this is that there isnt a specific 33 to be put in, so I have to enter the 25-45 or whatever it is."

You missed my point completely.

"Like the Bath party and the arabs, you will read into what every you read with what you want it to say

I really don't understand what you are trying to say with the last part of that sentence. Care to re-write it in understandable English?



Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
User currently offlineGo Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 843 times:

And again, the drones have been reported before and are being investigated by the inspectors.

who conviently forgot to mention it on tv on friday and hid it in the report.

ps-a number of europeans belive everything saddam says and believe that the us/uk is faking all the evidence in order to kill all the iraqis and muslims in the world and grab every last bit of oil.



It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 8, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 823 times:

Go Canada!: who conviently forgot to mention it on tv on friday and hid it in the report.

Some people actually can read...  Wink/being sarcastic


Go Canada!: ps-a number of europeans belive everything saddam says and believe that the us/uk is faking all the evidence in order to kill all the iraqis and muslims in the world and grab every last bit of oil.

Yes. A number between 0 and about 50, I would say.


User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 9, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 816 times:

Go Canada!: ps-a number of europeans belive everything saddam says and believe that the us/uk is faking all the evidence in order to kill all the iraqis and muslims in the world and grab every last bit of oil.

Yes. A number between 0 and about 50, I would say.
******************

I would say that there is more than that on the non aviation forum alone


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 10, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 809 times:

I´ve not yet seen anyone in here propagating the completely ludicrous propaganda emanating from Bagdad.

User currently offlineCwapilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1166 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 801 times:

Blix did not mention the drones in his speech precisely because it would have had an effect on those members, unlike France, China, Germany and Russia, who are waiting for more evidence to base their decisions. The others seem ready to ignore any new information that comes up and veto whatever comes down the pipe...this to me is exactly what they, in turn, accuse Bush of. Yet, it is Bush who is going through this whole UN charade in the first place. Then, the so-called "unilateralist" is criticized by the same people for attempting to go about the North Korea problem in a multi-lateral fashion. That is an area in which China would be most helpful, yet is content to let the situation escalate as long as the world sees it as the responsibility of the US, and the US can be seen to flounder. I also don't see anyone else relevant to the situation jumping in with any help, i.e. Japan, Russia....and the ones who stand to lose the most...SOUTH KOREA. Instead, South Korea has been discussing with Rumsfeld ways in which US troops can be removed...the one deterrent keeping the North Koreans from overrunning the South.

Blix also forgot to mention the testing of certain rockets capable of spreading smaller bombs containing chemical and biological agents over large areas. This, too, has been known to Blix and his team of inspectors. Why does it have to take wading through a report consisting of hundreds of pages to learn about this? It's not a coincidence...once again, it shows to whom Blix is beholden.

I guess it doesn't matter, as the so-called objective nations already have their minds made up. Nothing short of a mushroom cloud in the middle of Paris followed by a signed, videotaped confession from Sadam will change their minds...and, it seems, even that wouldn't change their minds. We'd have to go through a UN inquisition as to whether or not the tape was a forgery or farce from Colin Powell. China wants to do nothing but embarass the US and achieve parity of power. France wants the same, plus a cut of the petroleum action. Germany had thought it was leading some great crusade to bring itself back to relevance and to advance the prestige of the EU (not to mention the lucrative oil contracts), only to find itself coopted and now playing second fiddle to France. Russia just wants its $8 billion back...and they seem to be the most honest about their dubious intentions. Wading through all of this is supposed to be multilateralism? These weasels have been able to take the moral high ground? Unbelieveable.

I wonder what else is hidden deep inside one of Mr. Blix's reports. Perhaps the missles Saddam has not decalred and will, therefore, not destroy? But, hey, Iraq destroyed another 2 missles yesterday, while the factory that produces them is still in tact and other facilities remain under ground....we should give it another 12 years! his is real progress! 46 missles in 12 years...as another memeber said earlier, it is worse to have a parking ticket levied against you than a UN resolution....unless, of course, you're a UN or Russian diplomat...then they are equivalent.



Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 12, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 797 times:

Hello-ooo!



How can Blix "hide" things that are clearly described in his actual report?

I´m pretty certain that every UNSC delegation has people who actually read the darn thing! When you are too lazy to inform yourself and consequently get surprised by things you could have known before, how is that Mr. Blix´ fault?  Insane


User currently offlineCwapilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1166 posts, RR: 17
Reply 13, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 782 times:

Hello yourself! The point is, by burrying it somewhere inside a giant report and failing to bring it up during an oral presentation, while at the same time singing Saddam's praises, is dubious at best, and clearly intended to have an effect on public opinion. Public opinion is basically what many of these undecideds will be going on. Mr. Blix simply didn't want this on television in order to protect his agenda. His snipes at Colin Powell the last time around, instead of acting on the intelligence provided, is also revealing. He asked for intelligence information, and his job is to act on it, not try to discount it before even looking into it. If the UK or US administrations leave anything out, it automatically becomes the stuff of conspiracy theories...not in Mr. Blix's case for you, I suppose. Mr. Blix always says cooperation is there, but not as much as he would like, and no serious violations have been found. He is a liar.


Also, where exactly is Mr. Blix's full report available to the public, so that I can avoid being accused of being lazy in the future? Or, better yet, which UN SC delegation do I belong to, so that I may have access to the full reports and not be stupidly surprised? Better yet, where do I go so that I can be programmed to be as wise as you think you are?



Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 14, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 765 times:

Cwapilot: The point is, by burrying it somewhere inside a giant report and failing to bring it up during an oral presentation, while at the same time singing Saddam's praises, is dubious at best, and clearly intended to have an effect on public opinion.

There are likely hundreds of individual issues within the report; Most of them are not explicitly mentioned in the short oral presentation.

Unless the Security Council decides to sit through a complete reading of the report - which would probably take a few days - the oral presentation will always represent a conclusion rather than a detailed listing.


Cwapilot: Mr. Blix simply didn't want this on television in order to protect his agenda.

Up to this point, it´s not even clear what exactly these drones can do. They may fall under the prescriptions of the respective resolutions (and they probably do); But that hasn´t even been established, yet.


Cwapilot: His snipes at Colin Powell the last time around, instead of acting on the intelligence provided, is also revealing.

On what intelligence has he failed to act? I must have missed something.

And sorry, but it seems Mr. Powell´s information just didn´t stand up to even cursory verification attempts. Shoddy work on his part can´t be blamed on Mr. Blix.


Cwapilot: He asked for intelligence information, and his job is to act on it, not try to discount it before even looking into it.

That wasn´t the case, as far as I´ve seen so far. The evidence was indeed checked but was largely found to be unconvincing or non-verifyable.


Cwapilot: If the UK or US administrations leave anything out, it automatically becomes the stuff of conspiracy theories...not in Mr. Blix's case for you, I suppose.

Same rules for both sides. Mr. Blix so far has been able to substantiate verifyable evidence for his reports; The Bush and Blair administrations on the other hand have been caught repeatedly with inconclusive, fabricated, manipulated or plagiarized evidence.

Blix´ interest seems to be to go ahead with disarmament; The two governments have a declared agenda. So who do you trust?


Cwapilot: Mr. Blix always says cooperation is there, but not as much as he would like, and no serious violations have been found.

Wrong. He hasn´t hesitated to criticize the regime´s failures to cooperate before. I wonder how you´ve missed that.


Cwapilot: He is a liar.

He has offered verifyable evidence (contrary to Bush and Blair). How does that make him a liar?


Cwapilot: Also, where exactly is Mr. Blix's full report available to the public,

Doesn´t seem to be, yet.

Cwapilot: so that I can avoid being accused of being lazy in the future?

Being a little more cautious about bold suspicions might help you there...  Wink/being sarcastic


Cwapilot: Better yet, where do I go so that I can be programmed to be as wise as you think you are?

Actually watching the news from different sources has been sufficient for me - and thank you for the compliment.  Big thumbs up


User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 15, posted (11 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 762 times:

Up to this point, it´s not even clear what exactly these drones can do
************************

Well if they are similar to the drones that the soldiers found during the gulf war, then they actually had chemical sprayers on them at the time. Whatever you want to thing about them, it is unlikely he is watering the flowers with them


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