Jsf119 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 196 posts, RR: 0 Posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4838 times:
I would like to voice my opinion to all of these protester's who think they are doing the right thing. I will make my case in a few points and will do so respectfully. By the way keep in mind you are a minority. Almost 70% of Americans support this war.
1. The first statement that this war is over oil is absolutley crazy. If this war were about oil we would have been in Iraq a long time before this. There would have been nothing to stop us from getting oil earlier plus now I hope all of you are paying attention WE ARE THE RICHEST POWERFUL COUNTRY IN THE WORLD WE DO NOT NEED IRAQI OIL NEITHER DOES BUSH OR ANYONE ELSE THESE PEOPLE ARE ALREADY MILLIONAIRES THEY DONT NEED THE MONEY. Hussien has been torturing and murdering his own people and has ties to those devils that attacked us on 9/11. In fact people in Iraq want us there to liberate them. Iraqi's were asking American journalist before we invaded when we were coming they could'nt wait. Do you honestly think your average Iraqi really wants Saddam to stay in power? Also how many civilans have been killed so far? Not the thousands you people are crying about. So if you people are so concerned about innocent life how come you chastize two men of great courage (Bush,Blair) and support a tyrant who killed millions of innocent people? How come you hold signs saying No War FOR Oil but yet I have not seen a SINGLE one of you holding a sign saying Saddam Stop the Torture or Saddam Disarm.
2. Where were you people in the 1990's? Your wonderful Bill Clinton attacked Somalia, Bosnia, Haiti, and of course in 1998 in order to avoid impeachment he diverted attention by bombing Iraq. Yet I never saw a SINGLE war protester even though he did all of this WITHOUT even trying to get U.N. authorization.
3. This one is very important so please pay attention. Right now KIDS thats right kids between 18-25 are over there risking their lives to keep our lives safe so we can have our freedom. They are risking their lives to free millions of people who have been abused and tormented for many years. Please show them some decency and even though you don't agree with the war at least support them and know they are protecting your freedom.
4. This one is my closing point and it is extremely ironic because you people seem to be so "concerned" about innocent life. However you are supporting a dictator who has killed millions. Whose son has a hobby of raping women. A regime that kills children in front of their dissident parents. Who torture so many so brutally. Also the risk of another terrorist attack in the United States
is very high. Yet you champions of human rights block major roads in cities such as Chicago and San Francisco, Boston and on Saturday in New York. If there is a terrorist attack in a major city and you people are blocking major roads to exodus the city your actions puts thousands of lives in danger.
Your actions and signs alone are great signs that in fact you are not concerned about human rights instead some of you are mislead by the people who organize these rallies or by the very liberal mainstream media in the United Stated. You are using this anti-war platform to push your anti-American views, your anti-Bush views and your socialist agenda. Just remember for every one of you protesters there are 3 Americans with opposite views and the fact is that it is sickening that you bash one of the greatest countries in the world and support one of the most brutal regimes ever.
PHX-LJU From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4767 times:
Jsf119, just because you disagree with the anti-war people, you have to refer to them as "Americans" IN QUOTES (in your title line)? How closed-minded of you. I don't have the time to reply to all of your points, but here's a few:
"I will make my case in a few points and will do so respectfully."
If that's your goal, putting "Americans" in quotes isn't the way to achieve it.
"Right now KIDS thats right kids between 18-25 are over there risking their lives to keep our lives safe so we can have our freedom."
It's precisely because many people care about putting these troops in harm's way that they are so skeptical about the necessity of this war (among other things, that this is really about us having our freedom). But, yes, everybody should wish the best for our troops.
"How come you hold signs saying No War FOR Oil but yet I have not seen a SINGLE one of you holding a sign saying Saddam Stop the Torture or Saddam Disarm."
Everybody would like Saddam to stop the torture, but many Americans are speaking out because they don't like about what our president is doing in our name by starting this war.
"You are using this anti-war platform to push your anti-American views, your anti-Bush views and your socialist agenda."
Based on your post, one could easily argue that you are using this pro-war platform to push your pro-Bush views and your reactionary agenda.
Nonrevman From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1318 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4727 times:
I am an American who does not support the way in which this war was engaged. Unlike some people, I feel like it is important to have the support of your allies before taking unilateral action. It seems like the UN was asking for more time to prove that Saddam had the weapons of mass destruction and if indeed he did have them, then they were willing to impose a deadline. It just seems like we were in too much of a hurry. It is doubtful that Saddam could have hit the US 6000 miles away with his technology, so why did we not give the UN a little more time to sort out a plan for dealing with Iraq? Even though America is militarily the strongest nation, it does not mean that we do not need our allies and to maintain a strong bond with them. Like many other Americans, I fear that this is going to cause some undue tension between the US and the international community.
Also, Bush does seem more preoccupied with Iraq than he does his own country. While people all around me are losing jobs and the ability to pay the bills, we are talking of liberating the Iraqi people. I am all for doing this, but would simply like the support of our longstanding friends across the sea--both in a military and a financial sense.
With that said, I am fully behind the troops now that combat has begun. Last night, I hoped with all my might that Saddam was taken out in that first strike, because it would have saved many lives and helped put this conflict to a quick end. Maybe that can still take place. As I watch our troops move swiftly across the desert, I hope they accomplish their mission and much more without casualties. I want every single one of them to do the job and come home. I also hope that we get rid of the madman in Baghdad and give the Iraqi people some much needed liberation from oppression now that this whole thing is started. I am behind our troops all the way now that they have started the campaign.
Again, I wish that the war had taken a different approach. Even if victory is swift, it will still have some major consequences. It should not have started this way. One last thing, I am getting tired of the way that Americans who oppose this war are being lumped together as all Democrats or Hanoi-Jane types, or human rights demonstrators, peaceniks, flower-children, or whatever. There are people from all walks of life, political parties, income levels, and ages who have misgivings about the process leading up to this. Enough with the stereotypes that we are not as patriotic as you are just because we have a different opinion!
Redngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 40
Reply 3, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4716 times:
You make some awfully broad assumptions. Let me tell you my story, although I doubt you will be convinced and I wonder if you will spend the time reading and thinking rather than simply dismissing what I have to say.
First of all, not all protesters are protesting the war on the basis of "it's all about oil." Some of us are just against war in general. Some of us think there are too many problems at home for us to be going out and policing the world.
As a Christian who has personally been given the gift of mercy through Jesus Christ, and having been called to demonstrate that mercy to others, I am a pacifist. There may be other Christians who feel that they are called to arms nut I am not one of them. My guiding passages in being a pacifist:
"For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?"
Ephesians 6: 10-18
Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.
In the tradition of Christ's crucifixion, I would rather die at the hand of my enemy praying God's mercy on his/her sould than I would damn my enemy with my own sword.
I am against Saddam Hussein's tyranny. I have prayed and continue to pray against the tyranny in this world whether it be abroad or at home. I listened with horror when Glenn Beck read about Uday and Qusay Hussein's "hobbies." I pray that the Lord will work in their hearts, or if they have been given over to their carnal desires, that the Lord will temper the evil perpetrated at their hands.
Second, I'm aghast that you have such a short memory about our actions in Somalia, Bosnia, etc. Perhaps the few years younger you are than me means that you were too young to care at the time of these actions. There WERE protesters against our actions there. Perhaps not as large, but there were demonstrations all over New York and Washington, especially when our soldiers were slaughtered in the streets of Mogadishu. Many of us were appalled at the use of American soldiers in Haiti. Remember, though, that all of those missions were portrayed as "mercy missions" by the media, and many people treated them as such instead of protesting against "military action." If you don't believe me, then educate yourself by looking up articles in the Reader's Guide to Periodical Literature media index. Your local library should have The New York Times on microfilm, in which you will find articles listed from the Reader's Guide.
I, for one, saw right through the attack on Iraq during the impeachment. And yes, I supported the impeachment.
Once again, you fail to understand that many of us who are anti-war are very much in support of the troops. Just because I think that war is wrong, I also understand that these people are doing the job they chose. Yet there is immense stress on our troops. They have been trained to kill, but actually going out and carrying out homicide against a real live human being is very difficult. By the way, I say "homicide" because even execution deaths are listed as "homicide" on the death certificate. When a person goes out and attacks another person knowing that their actions will lead to their opponent's death, it is homicide. This is why people come home with post-traumatic stress -- it's not just what is done to a person, but also what that person him/herself has done to others. There are still people in our armed forces who joined for educational opportunities, vocational training, and/or scholarships, who never expected to get into combat. In addition, there are those who knew/know exactly what they are going into, and yet they must put aside some of their humanity to distance themselves from the very real threat of mortal injury and death. So I pray every day, actually much more than once a day right now, that each and every person in uniform will be given wisdom and mercy from God, protected from evil, death and destruction, according to God's will alone and not that of any man.
Finally, I have to say that I pledge no allegiance to "America" because I am called to allegiance to a higher power, my God in heaven. Even so, enjoying the benefits of a citizen of the United States of America, I do MORE daily in my civic duties than many so-called Americans do in their entire lives. I vote in every election that I can research (I do not vote if I don't know who/what to vote for -- that's not right!) I pay my taxes. I work a full-time job (I'm lucky to have one), volunteer in civic organizations, and pray for my leaders and for the people of this nation.
Radarbeam From Canada, joined Mar 2002, 1311 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4713 times:
Would you care to explain why someone is automatically labeled as "anti-american" as soon as this person oppose war?
Why i'm against this war? Simple, for economic reasons. Bush as massacred the economic situation in the last 2 years, and now he wants a war... go figure.
In Bush speech a few days ago he warned Saddam not to set fire to the oil wells, because "it belongs to the Iraqi people" Ohh right... One must be really naive to beleive this, Bush has never cared for someone else than big corporations, do you think he cares for Iraqi people? I don't think so. He just want control of the wells to share the petrol with his oil buddies.
Why doesn't Bush acts in N. Korea, Libya or in every other dictatures in the world? Because there's no oil, simple.
NormalSpeed From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4668 times:
I wonder what the anti-war crowd's reaction will be several years down the road, when the Iraqis are a free and happy people. I wonder what their opinion will be about Americans being able to breathe a little easier because of diminished risk of terrorism. I wonder if they will be glad that the entire world will be a safer place.
NoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7992 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4657 times:
'Speed, may your dreams come true. Perhaps you have a hard time believing it, but after war has started I truly hope everything will end up fine: Iraqis will warmly welcome the allies, human rights violations will stop and everyone live happily ever after.
But protests in Saudia Arabia already burst those bubbles, I'm afraid. We can not predict the impact of this war in the long run. How can you tell this war really diminishes the risk of terrorism?
NormalSpeed From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4642 times:
"How can you tell this war really diminishes the risk of terrorism?"
How could it do anything BUT diminish the risk of terrorism? It removes the infrastructure that Hussien made available to terrorists.
"...the long-term impact of this unilateral and arrogant way of acting of the US will be dramatic I'm afraid."
You are wrong. It will be proven in time. And how can you possibly say that this was a "unilateral" action? Nearly forty countries are allied with the US. And there is nothing arrogant about freeing an oppressed people, and proctecting the US citizenry in the process.
Heavymetal From Ireland, joined May 2015, 20 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4610 times:
Thank you for your opinion.
Now take your "quotes" and pound it. You say that s*** to me in my face and you're gonna get levelled. My family has given its' dearest blood in duty to this great and blessed land. And I don't need yet another self righteous dittohead who is in this fantasy that he gets to proclaim among his fellow citizens who's right, who loves America and who's on God's good side.
The flag of the United States of America is MINE every bit as much as it yours, white boy. I hope that fact , and the fact thats therss not a g**damned thing you can do about it, eats a hole in your gut.
I wonder what the anti-war crowd's reaction will be several years down the road, when the Iraqis are a free and happy people.
With respect, Speed, probably envy. If the vision of America this poster gets chub to comes to light, we will be neither free or happy.
Alpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4581 times:
Jsf119, I was against the start of this war, for reasons I've gone over and over on this forum. Somehow, you think that doesn't make me a loyal American. Now, even my many detractors on here will tell you I'm ANYTHING but Anti-American.
You could possibly be less of an "American" than those people who are peacefully protesting the war. (Those causing violence, they're a different story). They are exercising their Constitutionallly-protected right to show dissent with their government. You, on the other hand, and many conservatives-Sean Hannity of FOX comes to mind-belittle and demean ANYONE who disagrees with George W. Bush on this issue. If you cannot be tolerant of others' views, that makes you the anthises of what a true Amerian is really all about.
CPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 6461 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4545 times:
About the oil: It's true, the US don't need the oil because they're lacking it from other countries. What they do need is a country with a pro-US government that will ensure a stable flow of oil. Because if such a government can be installed, the US wouldn't have to face the problems that occur when a situation like the one in Venezuela rises.
I'm pretty sure that the US doesn't like having to depend on Saudi Arabia, where the population is heavily suppressed, and where a revolution like the one in Iran would mean a major oil crisis.
Dazeflight From Germany, joined Jun 1999, 580 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (12 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4546 times:
How come you hold signs saying No War FOR Oil but yet I have not seen a SINGLE one of you holding a sign saying Saddam Stop the Torture or Saddam Disarm.
do a search on a non-american news-website for pictures of the anti-war demonstrations all over the world and you will get pics with signs like "against war, against saddam", "stop war and anti-americanism" or "force saddam out of power without a war" (these messages are of course not always in english)
Secondly, don't even try to pretend you care about the Iraqi people. You don't give a shit about them and if the 1st Gulf-war hadn't occured, Suddam would probably still be a good friend of yours.