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To All Of You Anit-war "American's"  
User currently offlineJsf119 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 196 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4057 times:

I would like to voice my opinion to all of these protester's who think they are doing the right thing. I will make my case in a few points and will do so respectfully. By the way keep in mind you are a minority. Almost 70% of Americans support this war.
1. The first statement that this war is over oil is absolutley crazy. If this war were about oil we would have been in Iraq a long time before this. There would have been nothing to stop us from getting oil earlier plus now I hope all of you are paying attention WE ARE THE RICHEST POWERFUL COUNTRY IN THE WORLD WE DO NOT NEED IRAQI OIL NEITHER DOES BUSH OR ANYONE ELSE THESE PEOPLE ARE ALREADY MILLIONAIRES THEY DONT NEED THE MONEY. Hussien has been torturing and murdering his own people and has ties to those devils that attacked us on 9/11. In fact people in Iraq want us there to liberate them. Iraqi's were asking American journalist before we invaded when we were coming they could'nt wait. Do you honestly think your average Iraqi really wants Saddam to stay in power? Also how many civilans have been killed so far? Not the thousands you people are crying about. So if you people are so concerned about innocent life how come you chastize two men of great courage (Bush,Blair) and support a tyrant who killed millions of innocent people? How come you hold signs saying No War FOR Oil but yet I have not seen a SINGLE one of you holding a sign saying Saddam Stop the Torture or Saddam Disarm.
2. Where were you people in the 1990's? Your wonderful Bill Clinton attacked Somalia, Bosnia, Haiti, and of course in 1998 in order to avoid impeachment he diverted attention by bombing Iraq. Yet I never saw a SINGLE war protester even though he did all of this WITHOUT even trying to get U.N. authorization.
3. This one is very important so please pay attention. Right now KIDS thats right kids between 18-25 are over there risking their lives to keep our lives safe so we can have our freedom. They are risking their lives to free millions of people who have been abused and tormented for many years. Please show them some decency and even though you don't agree with the war at least support them and know they are protecting your freedom.
4. This one is my closing point and it is extremely ironic because you people seem to be so "concerned" about innocent life. However you are supporting a dictator who has killed millions. Whose son has a hobby of raping women. A regime that kills children in front of their dissident parents. Who torture so many so brutally. Also the risk of another terrorist attack in the United States
is very high. Yet you champions of human rights block major roads in cities such as Chicago and San Francisco, Boston and on Saturday in New York. If there is a terrorist attack in a major city and you people are blocking major roads to exodus the city your actions puts thousands of lives in danger.
Your actions and signs alone are great signs that in fact you are not concerned about human rights instead some of you are mislead by the people who organize these rallies or by the very liberal mainstream media in the United Stated. You are using this anti-war platform to push your anti-American views, your anti-Bush views and your socialist agenda. Just remember for every one of you protesters there are 3 Americans with opposite views and the fact is that it is sickening that you bash one of the greatest countries in the world and support one of the most brutal regimes ever.

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePHX-LJU From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3986 times:

Jsf119, just because you disagree with the anti-war people, you have to refer to them as "Americans" IN QUOTES (in your title line)? How closed-minded of you. I don't have the time to reply to all of your points, but here's a few:

"I will make my case in a few points and will do so respectfully."

If that's your goal, putting "Americans" in quotes isn't the way to achieve it.

"Right now KIDS thats right kids between 18-25 are over there risking their lives to keep our lives safe so we can have our freedom."

It's precisely because many people care about putting these troops in harm's way that they are so skeptical about the necessity of this war (among other things, that this is really about us having our freedom). But, yes, everybody should wish the best for our troops.

"How come you hold signs saying No War FOR Oil but yet I have not seen a SINGLE one of you holding a sign saying Saddam Stop the Torture or Saddam Disarm."

Everybody would like Saddam to stop the torture, but many Americans are speaking out because they don't like about what our president is doing in our name by starting this war.

"You are using this anti-war platform to push your anti-American views, your anti-Bush views and your socialist agenda."

Based on your post, one could easily argue that you are using this pro-war platform to push your pro-Bush views and your reactionary agenda.

[Edited 2003-03-21 07:26:14]

User currently offlineNonrevman From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1290 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3946 times:

I am an American who does not support the way in which this war was engaged. Unlike some people, I feel like it is important to have the support of your allies before taking unilateral action. It seems like the UN was asking for more time to prove that Saddam had the weapons of mass destruction and if indeed he did have them, then they were willing to impose a deadline. It just seems like we were in too much of a hurry. It is doubtful that Saddam could have hit the US 6000 miles away with his technology, so why did we not give the UN a little more time to sort out a plan for dealing with Iraq? Even though America is militarily the strongest nation, it does not mean that we do not need our allies and to maintain a strong bond with them. Like many other Americans, I fear that this is going to cause some undue tension between the US and the international community.

Also, Bush does seem more preoccupied with Iraq than he does his own country. While people all around me are losing jobs and the ability to pay the bills, we are talking of liberating the Iraqi people. I am all for doing this, but would simply like the support of our longstanding friends across the sea--both in a military and a financial sense.

With that said, I am fully behind the troops now that combat has begun. Last night, I hoped with all my might that Saddam was taken out in that first strike, because it would have saved many lives and helped put this conflict to a quick end. Maybe that can still take place. As I watch our troops move swiftly across the desert, I hope they accomplish their mission and much more without casualties. I want every single one of them to do the job and come home. I also hope that we get rid of the madman in Baghdad and give the Iraqi people some much needed liberation from oppression now that this whole thing is started. I am behind our troops all the way now that they have started the campaign.

Again, I wish that the war had taken a different approach. Even if victory is swift, it will still have some major consequences. It should not have started this way. One last thing, I am getting tired of the way that Americans who oppose this war are being lumped together as all Democrats or Hanoi-Jane types, or human rights demonstrators, peaceniks, flower-children, or whatever. There are people from all walks of life, political parties, income levels, and ages who have misgivings about the process leading up to this. Enough with the stereotypes that we are not as patriotic as you are just because we have a different opinion!


User currently offlineRedngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 45
Reply 3, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3935 times:

You make some awfully broad assumptions. Let me tell you my story, although I doubt you will be convinced and I wonder if you will spend the time reading and thinking rather than simply dismissing what I have to say.

First of all, not all protesters are protesting the war on the basis of "it's all about oil." Some of us are just against war in general. Some of us think there are too many problems at home for us to be going out and policing the world.

As a Christian who has personally been given the gift of mercy through Jesus Christ, and having been called to demonstrate that mercy to others, I am a pacifist. There may be other Christians who feel that they are called to arms nut I am not one of them. My guiding passages in being a pacifist:


Matthew 7:2-4
"For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?"

Ephesians 6: 10-18
Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.


In the tradition of Christ's crucifixion, I would rather die at the hand of my enemy praying God's mercy on his/her sould than I would damn my enemy with my own sword.

I am against Saddam Hussein's tyranny. I have prayed and continue to pray against the tyranny in this world whether it be abroad or at home. I listened with horror when Glenn Beck read about Uday and Qusay Hussein's "hobbies." I pray that the Lord will work in their hearts, or if they have been given over to their carnal desires, that the Lord will temper the evil perpetrated at their hands.

Second, I'm aghast that you have such a short memory about our actions in Somalia, Bosnia, etc. Perhaps the few years younger you are than me means that you were too young to care at the time of these actions. There WERE protesters against our actions there. Perhaps not as large, but there were demonstrations all over New York and Washington, especially when our soldiers were slaughtered in the streets of Mogadishu. Many of us were appalled at the use of American soldiers in Haiti. Remember, though, that all of those missions were portrayed as "mercy missions" by the media, and many people treated them as such instead of protesting against "military action." If you don't believe me, then educate yourself by looking up articles in the Reader's Guide to Periodical Literature media index. Your local library should have The New York Times on microfilm, in which you will find articles listed from the Reader's Guide.

I, for one, saw right through the attack on Iraq during the impeachment. And yes, I supported the impeachment.

Once again, you fail to understand that many of us who are anti-war are very much in support of the troops. Just because I think that war is wrong, I also understand that these people are doing the job they chose. Yet there is immense stress on our troops. They have been trained to kill, but actually going out and carrying out homicide against a real live human being is very difficult. By the way, I say "homicide" because even execution deaths are listed as "homicide" on the death certificate. When a person goes out and attacks another person knowing that their actions will lead to their opponent's death, it is homicide. This is why people come home with post-traumatic stress -- it's not just what is done to a person, but also what that person him/herself has done to others. There are still people in our armed forces who joined for educational opportunities, vocational training, and/or scholarships, who never expected to get into combat. In addition, there are those who knew/know exactly what they are going into, and yet they must put aside some of their humanity to distance themselves from the very real threat of mortal injury and death. So I pray every day, actually much more than once a day right now, that each and every person in uniform will be given wisdom and mercy from God, protected from evil, death and destruction, according to God's will alone and not that of any man.

Finally, I have to say that I pledge no allegiance to "America" because I am called to allegiance to a higher power, my God in heaven. Even so, enjoying the benefits of a citizen of the United States of America, I do MORE daily in my civic duties than many so-called Americans do in their entire lives. I vote in every election that I can research (I do not vote if I don't know who/what to vote for -- that's not right!) I pay my taxes. I work a full-time job (I'm lucky to have one), volunteer in civic organizations, and pray for my leaders and for the people of this nation.

How dare you call me anti-American?



Up, up and away!
User currently offlineRadarbeam From Canada, joined Mar 2002, 1310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3932 times:

Would you care to explain why someone is automatically labeled as "anti-american" as soon as this person oppose war?

Why i'm against this war? Simple, for economic reasons. Bush as massacred the economic situation in the last 2 years, and now he wants a war... go figure.

In Bush speech a few days ago he warned Saddam not to set fire to the oil wells, because "it belongs to the Iraqi people" Ohh right... One must be really naive to beleive this, Bush has never cared for someone else than big corporations, do you think he cares for Iraqi people? I don't think so. He just want control of the wells to share the petrol with his oil buddies.

Why doesn't Bush acts in N. Korea, Libya or in every other dictatures in the world? Because there's no oil, simple.





User currently offlineAvt007 From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 2132 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3923 times:

No oil in Libya? Then what the hell am I doing there?

User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3925 times:

Redngold,

I agree it is not up to US troops to judge Saddam and his cronies, or to punish him. That responsibility is reserved for God, before whom Saddam & Co will one day stand.

The job of US troops is simply to arrange that meeting.

Charles


User currently offlinePHX-LJU From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3917 times:

I hope that Jsf119 realizes that, by calling people opposed to the war "anti-American" and referring to them as "Americans" in quotes, he's the one who's being un-American.

User currently offlineNormalSpeed From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3900 times:

"The job of US troops is simply to arrange that meeting."

Now that's what I call good humor. Cfalk, that was hilarious.

'Speed



User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7935 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3884 times:

"The job of US troops is simply to arrange that meeting."

Now that's what I call good humor. Cfalk, that was hilarious.


It's no longer very original, though. If I remember correctly
it was Rumsfeld who said so during war on Taliban.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3885 times:

>I would like to voice my opinion to all of these protester's who think they are doing the right thing

We do not only THINK that, we ARE doing the right thing.

Calling people who are anti-war, anti american is very dumb, but it is a generalisation which is made a lot these days  Sad


User currently offlineNormalSpeed From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3887 times:

I wonder what the anti-war crowd's reaction will be several years down the road, when the Iraqis are a free and happy people. I wonder what their opinion will be about Americans being able to breathe a little easier because of diminished risk of terrorism. I wonder if they will be glad that the entire world will be a safer place.

What will you all say then?

'Speed

You'll probably just find something new.


User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3881 times:

FREE and HAPPY people?

In your dreams maybe, but get real instead of listening to Bush his propaganda.


User currently offlineBuckfifty From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1316 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3869 times:

I'm not anti-American. I'm just anti-dumbass.

User currently offlineNormalSpeed From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3874 times:

"In your dreams maybe, but get real instead of listening to Bush his propaganda."

Ok, so why are Iraqi troops surrenduring so early? Why are Iraqis already celebrating? If you do not believe that the Iraqis desire liberation, you will soon be proven wrong.

'Speed


User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3874 times:

You have a totally wrong impression of this country.

They will not be liberated.

/Frederic


User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7935 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3876 times:

'Speed, may your dreams come true. Perhaps you have a hard time believing it, but after war has started I truly hope everything will end up fine: Iraqis will warmly welcome the allies, human rights violations will stop and everyone live happily ever after.
But protests in Saudia Arabia already burst those bubbles, I'm afraid. We can not predict the impact of this war in the long run. How can you tell this war really diminishes the risk of terrorism?



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3873 times:

NoUFO: the long-term impact of this unilateral and arrogant way of acting of the US will be dramatic I'm afraid  Sad

/Frederic


User currently offlineNormalSpeed From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3861 times:

"How can you tell this war really diminishes the risk of terrorism?"

How could it do anything BUT diminish the risk of terrorism? It removes the infrastructure that Hussien made available to terrorists.

"...the long-term impact of this unilateral and arrogant way of acting of the US will be dramatic I'm afraid."

You are wrong. It will be proven in time. And how can you possibly say that this was a "unilateral" action? Nearly forty countries are allied with the US. And there is nothing arrogant about freeing an oppressed people, and proctecting the US citizenry in the process.

'Speed



User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7935 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3853 times:

How could it do anything BUT diminish the risk of terrorism? It removes the infrastructure that Hussien made available to terrorists.

Time will tell. If you take this for granted, you must be pretty naive.
And even if this happens (and remains so): What's with Saudi Arabia and other countries?



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3829 times:

Thank you for your opinion.

Now take your "quotes" and pound it. You say that s*** to me in my face and you're gonna get levelled. My family has given its' dearest blood in duty to this great and blessed land. And I don't need yet another self righteous dittohead who is in this fantasy that he gets to proclaim among his fellow citizens who's right, who loves America and who's on God's good side.

The flag of the United States of America is MINE every bit as much as it yours, white boy. I hope that fact , and the fact thats therss not a g**damned thing you can do about it, eats a hole in your gut.

I wonder what the anti-war crowd's reaction will be several years down the road, when the Iraqis are a free and happy people.

With respect, Speed, probably envy. If the vision of America this poster gets chub to comes to light, we will be neither free or happy.



User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3800 times:

Jsf119, I was against the start of this war, for reasons I've gone over and over on this forum. Somehow, you think that doesn't make me a loyal American. Now, even my many detractors on here will tell you I'm ANYTHING but Anti-American.  Smile

You could possibly be less of an "American" than those people who are peacefully protesting the war. (Those causing violence, they're a different story). They are exercising their Constitutionallly-protected right to show dissent with their government. You, on the other hand, and many conservatives-Sean Hannity of FOX comes to mind-belittle and demean ANYONE who disagrees with George W. Bush on this issue. If you cannot be tolerant of others' views, that makes you the anthises of what a true Amerian is really all about.


User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 5974 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3764 times:

About the oil: It's true, the US don't need the oil because they're lacking it from other countries. What they do need is a country with a pro-US government that will ensure a stable flow of oil. Because if such a government can be installed, the US wouldn't have to face the problems that occur when a situation like the one in Venezuela rises.

I'm pretty sure that the US doesn't like having to depend on Saudi Arabia, where the population is heavily suppressed, and where a revolution like the one in Iran would mean a major oil crisis.


User currently offlineDazeflight From Germany, joined Jun 1999, 578 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3765 times:

How come you hold signs saying No War FOR Oil but yet I have not seen a SINGLE one of you holding a sign saying Saddam Stop the Torture or Saddam Disarm.

do a search on a non-american news-website for pictures of the anti-war demonstrations all over the world and you will get pics with signs like "against war, against saddam", "stop war and anti-americanism" or "force saddam out of power without a war" (these messages are of course not always in english)

Secondly, don't even try to pretend you care about the Iraqi people. You don't give a shit about them and if the 1st Gulf-war hadn't occured, Suddam would probably still be a good friend of yours.

ciao
Daniel


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (11 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3756 times:

What they do need is a country with a pro-US government that will ensure a stable flow of oil.

They already have that. Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Great Britain and other North Sea operators, etc. And among all of them, Iraq oil would have to travel the farthest.

Charles


25 Dazeflight : "And among all of them, Iraq oil would have to travel the farthest." ...and last the longest. Daniel
26 Amir : Hi Charles, there is a difference of how secure the oil is controlled. The current US forces in the gulf do stress on the current regimes to continue
27 Cfalk : This is simply the definition of the word imperialism. No, I don't think so. Do you know the saying, "If you owe the bank $100,000, the bank has got y
28 ADG : when the Iraqis are a free and happy people. Enlighten me as to which country has actually achieved this state of "free and happy people" after being
29 Avt007 : Germany and Japan, perhaps? Italy?
30 TechRep : Mr. ADG, I was stationed in Korea and I can tell you they seemed awful happy to me. Many times I would take the train and older Koreans would approac
31 Heavymetal : TechRep... It could be argued that the Korean conflict isn't truly 'over' either. And you speak nobly of good will well earned by the blood of 50 thou
32 TechRep : I await your reply ADG. TechRep
33 NormalSpeed : TechRep, Don't take it personally. ADG struggles with the concepts of "happy" and "free." 'Speed
34 ADG : ooh Normal, more mature and intelligent posts from you ... TechRep .. you struggle with the issue of gender? I dont' spend all day sitting here playin
35 Post contains images 747-451 : "I agree that it will take many years in Afghanistan to sort out the problems born there over the last 25 years but i've not yet seen a single reasona
36 ADG : I agree partially. If it took the US supposedly 25 years to develop a "social conciousness", where was Europe during this time as well? I can't speak
37 Post contains images Roadrunner165 : I agree with everything Jsf119 says. He puts it very well! Adam NWA ROCKS!!! AS ROCKS!!! I SUPPORT OUR TROOPS!!! I HOPE THEY HAVE FUN BOMBING SADDAM
38 Post contains images Sabena 690 : I HOPE THEY HAVE FUN BOMBING SADDAM I see in your profile that you are still a bit young to understand what's going on, that will probably partially e
39 Scooter : Roadrunner165 wrote: I HOPE THEY HAVE FUN BOMBING SADDAM Dude - grow up. War isn't a game.
40 Airplay : I wonder what the anti-war crowd's reaction will be several years down the road, when the Iraqis are a free and happy people. I wonder what their opin
41 Post contains links and images 747-451 : "yet everyone, France, Germany and to a lesser degree the US, have vast financial entanglements. Lesser extend or better hidden? Corporate greed is a
42 ADG : Secondly, not only were the US huge consumers of Drugs from Afghanistan, so are Europe--again exemplifying their hypocratic inaction. It's irrelevant
43 Post contains images 747-451 : "It's irrelevant to my point. I wasn't singling out America because they use the drugs, I was singling them out because they used the country. Big dif
44 Post contains images ADG : NO, Adg, it is every part of the point--if Europe is a consumer, using the goods, then they are "users" as well. Don't be selective to suit your needs
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