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US POW's On TV  
User currently offlineErj190 From Portugal, joined Dec 2000, 397 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1759 times:

Sky News broadcasting Al Jazeera TV.

Showing US soldiers made prisoners.

It's still unclear if they are really American soldiers, one of them clearly injured.

The one able to speak had some accent that I can't identify.

Should this images be true, it would be a violation of the the Geneva conventions. No images of P.O.W.'s should be shown.


43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1703 times:

Geneva conventions

Heck..if the US doesn't care about respecting international rules of conduct why should Iraq?



User currently offlineErj190 From Portugal, joined Dec 2000, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1693 times:

according to Sky News, the prisioners are from 507th Maintenance unit (whatever that is) and where captured at Nasirya. Also, according to Sky, there where 7 US soldiers killed and 16 casualties at that place.

suppose the 7 are included in the total of 16.


User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8171 posts, RR: 54
Reply 3, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1681 times:

"Should this images be true, it would be a violation of the the Geneva Conventions." Taking POWs is a violation of the Geneva Convention? And if it is, hasn't the US shown the way with their treatment of POWs - oops, "Illegal Combatants" - in Afganistan?


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineErj190 From Portugal, joined Dec 2000, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1675 times:

Well

We must note the distinction.

One thing is the legality of the whole war. It is of course illegal.

The other thing is that there is a war operation going on.

The rules to apply here are different.

wetter there is UN authorization to this war or not, the Geneva conventions still apply.

What you can argue is that International TV's, American TV's and the American military where the first to break the rule.

But the breaking of rules by one side does jot justify it's breaking by the other.

[Edited 2003-03-23 16:56:43]

User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1654 times:

Airplay, the Geneva Convention-the rules on warfare, not some UN mandate, states that POW's should not be paraded in front of media. The U.S. has obviously honored this with regard to the thousands of Iraqi POW's no in Allied custody.

It's amazing how you think one side is justified in brushing off rules or warfare, simply because you personally hate the other side.

Another not. NBC News is reporting that some Allied soldiers captured near Nasiriya have been executed by their captors. According to NBC, witnesses say the soldiers were laid on a floor, and shot through the back of the head.

Now, justify that, Airply, in all your righteous indignation.

What you can argue is that International TV's, American TV's and the American military where the first to break the rule.

What rule was broken, ERJ-190? Reporting on the war? That's no violation. But if you parade prisoners, up-close, in front of cameras, that's apparently a violation of the Geneva Convention.


User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8171 posts, RR: 54
Reply 6, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1640 times:

"...the Geneva Convention, the rules on warfare, not some UN mandate, states that POWs should not be paraded in front of media. The U.S. has obviously honoured this with regard to the thousands of Iraqi POWs now in Allied custody." Oh please, I've seen hundreds of Iraqi POWs on TV over the last few days. If it is a condition of the Geneva Convention (makes sense), it obviously hasn't troubled the US.


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineAirplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1635 times:

Now, justify that, Airply, in all your righteous indignation.


Alfalfa, how can you make that leap from a comment I made about a mere "formality" of parading POWs which the US media is flagrantly doing to me condoning the killing of ANYONE?

Stop trying to escalate the issue.

By the way, is it a coincidence that I've seen images of hundreds of Iraqi POWs and no coalition force POWs as yet?



User currently offlineErj190 From Portugal, joined Dec 2000, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1622 times:

Well Alpha 1. I am talking about those Iraqi prisoners being searched, forced to kneel on the road stretched with their faces in the floor. Those with plastic bags and blankets on their heads. I could go on.

We have all seen that. US TV's have been showing those images all the time.
I disagree with either of the postures.

Americans are showing prisoners surrendering to force others to do the same. Iraqis are showing American POWS's so that the US's public opinion may see them.

Neither of them are right


User currently offlineAirworthy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1617 times:

>>By the way, is it a coincidence that I've seen images of hundreds of Iraqi POWs and no coalition force POWs as yet?<<

Actually I was just reading the cease fire transcripts that were made back in '91. Back then the USA admitted that they captured 80,000 Iraqi POWs, while Iraq only had 14 coallition POWs.



User currently offlineHamfist From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 614 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1591 times:

Oh please, I've seen hundreds of Iraqi POWs on TV over the last few days. If it is a condition of the Geneva Convention (makes sense), it obviously hasn't troubled the US.

Cedarjet,

Considering some of the angles you have taken in several different threads, I'm beginning to wonder if you're capable of making simple distinctions. There is a very obvious difference between between attached media working for private organizations showing images of POWs from the field and a concerted effort by the Iraqi military to use POWs as a tool for propoganda.

As for your "the US has shown the way" in reference to Afghanistan, there is a difference between POWs and illegal combatants. I just get the feeling that you're more comfortable disguising your lack of ability to discern between the two by comparing them as if they are one in the same. Quite possibly, that helps you get some anger off your chest too, huh? By the way, can you describe the executions of those held in Cuba? Can you point me to any media clips or pictures of the aftermath of those executions. Can you show me any propoganda tapes showing those prisoners admitting their wrong-doing?



User currently offlineADG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1579 times:

It is to be noted that whilst Iraq and American signed the Geneva convention in 1955 & 56, are you aware that NEITHER are signatories to Protocol II or Protocl II.

Also note this statement in Protocol I of the Geneva Convention:

Recalling that every State has the duty, in conformity with the Charter of the United Nations, to refrain in its international relations from the threat or use of force against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of any State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations,

You could say that the war itself very clearly breaches the Geneva Convention.

Therefore whilst I am appalled and totally condemn the actions of the Iraqi military, I think it's hypocritical to whine about the breaches of the Geneva Convention by what is effectively a non signatory against a non signatory.








ADG


User currently offlineErj190 From Portugal, joined Dec 2000, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1570 times:

Hamfist.

Do you really think that showing Iraqi prisoners being arrested, is not propaganda?

The US administration clearly told us all that that was one of the objectives.
The simple showing of thousands of prisoners surrendering would contribute for all the others to understand they had no chance and should do exactly the same.

I can criticize Americans for the actions of their government.

I can't criticize Americans for siding with their armed forces.

But again I can criticize Americans if they refuse to see plain facts.

I have seen soldiers clearly being taken care off. At the same time I have seen the Iraqis being arrested pushed through the floor and forced to kneel.

We have not seen Americans being forced to kneel, surrounded by barbed wire, and forbidden to pray.

Neither the Americans nor the Iraqis are behaving correctly.


User currently offlineSquad55 From Canada, joined Nov 2001, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1522 times:

ERJ190
Why the hell does it matter what position they are standing in. Kneeling, Standing, Lying Down,, WHO CARES?? And how can someone be "pushed through the floor"
Oh and being you currently are a Iraqi POW, and you know exactly how they are treated you can tell us they are being treated badly?? They are letting you use A.net....



User currently offlineRadarbeam From Canada, joined Mar 2002, 1310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1513 times:

A few seconds of the images have been shown here in Canada, it's really disturbing to see. Basically they ask one young men where he is from, why he is in Iraq and if he's here to kill Iraqis. They also showed images of dead US servicemen.

Apparently US TV did not show the images because the government claims it breaches the Geneva convention. Only CBS showed a few seconds of it.

I hope those alive make it out ok.


User currently offlineFlying Belgian From Belgium, joined Jun 2001, 2399 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1477 times:
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I've heard this f**** Rumsfled reminding Iraq to respect the Geneva convention on war prisonners. Let me laugh !!!

Did he respect the UN procedures to bomb Iraq ???

What about the US channels not broadcasting any pictures of those soldiers ?

It's sad for those men & women but the US got what they deserved.

Dump Monkey Bush not bombs.



F.B



Life is great at 41.000 feet...
User currently offlineRadarbeam From Canada, joined Mar 2002, 1310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1467 times:

The fact is that no one deserves that Flying Belgian, and it's sad that you think like this.

User currently offlineSquad55 From Canada, joined Nov 2001, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1462 times:

FB go read past resolution's, once you do this you will find out the war is legal.

User currently offlineM.Seles_Fan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1451 times:

Very disturbing and upsetting, but Saddam knows he is a dead man and needs to cash in on as many gruesome imagines before he is killed. I'm sure this will only motivate the troops more to get the job done.

And I agree with those who say this is different than what the US Forces are doing with the Iraqi soldiers. The US isn't interviewing Iraqi soldiers in front of a camera, and aren't broadcasting their dead bodies.

And if anyone is embarrassing the Iraqi soldiers it is probably Saddam who makes some of them go out and fight the US wearing nothing more than pants and t-shirts. I bet these people are more than glad to be taken away by US troops and given assistance to.

-Matt





User currently offlineErj190 From Portugal, joined Dec 2000, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1447 times:

Here we are again, with our American friends starting insults, when they run out of arguments.

Squad55
======
Please explain what you mean. It doesn't care how the Iraqi soldiers are humiliated?

Here we go again, America's arrogance and one sided way of seeing the facts.

Are A.Net run by Iraqis?

That's why they allow me to speak ?

I am surely confused.

Or you believe that Web sites have a nationality?

Well, I believe even kids have the constitutional right to speak...




User currently offlineMaxPowers From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 475 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1404 times:

FB,

Since your ignorant, I'll fill you in. The Geneva Convention was Adopted on 12 August 1949 by the Diplomatic Conference for the Establishment of
International Conventions for the Protection of Victims of War , held in Geneva from 21 April to 12 August, 1949.

The treatment of POW's and the UN mandates are a completely different subject.

"Did he respect the UN procedures to (don't you mean by) bomb(ing) Iraq ???"
I think it's funny how we don't follow the UN opinion (which completely has no backbone by the way) when Iraq has not followed the UN mandates for years! They have scuds and are shooting them at US forces. But wait, weren't scuds banned by UN resolution?

I suggest you don't talk anymore FB.

-Max Powers.


User currently offlineS.p.a.s. From Liechtenstein, joined Mar 2001, 967 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1384 times:

Hey Max...

Tell me something dude, even your top military hasn't said yet that those missiles were Scuds, how come that you are stating so strongly that they really are? But off course, as a youngster you must have a better source..hun? Maybe a direct feed from NSA computers?

Why don't you sit down and wait until the proper type of missile is identified?

C'mon folks... let's stop making assumptions...

RS




"ad astra per aspera"
User currently offlineErj190 From Portugal, joined Dec 2000, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1363 times:

Yeah MaxPowers, even Heinrich Rumsfeld confirmed that up to his knowledge, no Scuds had been shot.
=============
=begin sarcarsm=
=============

Now, I think Rumsfeld is, as I have said in most posts a pro Nazi arrogant ba###rd, but when even such a low life goon confirms that! Well, I supposed it would be enough.

Who do you want to confirm there were no Scuds?

I suppose you are expecting for Hitler to appear himself on your favorite station (KKK TV) and confirm.
===========
=End sarcasm=
===========

The ignorance of this people, their lack of attention to details, their lack of attention to news and the facts gives me the chills.

[Edited 2003-03-23 20:05:33]

User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1344 times:

Guys, it's on CNN so it must be true  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

User currently offlineHamfist From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 614 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (11 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1340 times:

Hamfist.

Do you really think that showing Iraqi prisoners being arrested, is not propaganda?

The US administration clearly told us all that that was one of the objectives.
The simple showing of thousands of prisoners surrendering would contribute for all the others to understand they had no chance and should do exactly the same.



C'mon Erj190...please tell me you have the abilty to see the difference between journalists documenting the progress and activities of the battlefield in hopes those reports deter the enemy and a premeditated, coordinated effort to take troops who have already been removed from the battlefield and apparently attempting to use them as pawns or possibly some sort of human shields.


25 Sabena 690 : Hamfirst, if the role of the media is as objective and as thrustful as in Gulf War 1, I would not draw too fast the conclusions you made there...
26 ADG : FB go read past resolution's, once you do this you will find out the war is legal. I disagree, there will be a day of reckoning for this action in the
27 MaxPowers : "But off course, as a youngster you must have a better source..hun? Maybe a direct feed from NSA computers?" Or I have family over there who are on th
28 Erj190 : Well MaxPowers, I am sorry for your relatives. Yet, please understand that US tank crews are not the most effective analysts of artillery Russian made
29 Indianguy : the Geneva Convention-the rules on warfare, not some UN mandate, states that POW's should not be paraded in front of media. The U.S. has obviously ho
30 KAUSpilot : The Americans on TV had their pants pulled down and their genitals mutilated. One Iraqi man was "playing" with the corpses and jumping up and down hap
31 MaxPowers : KAUSpilot, The only thing this will bring will be more hatred toward Muslims, especially hate aimed at Muslim Americans who are not terrorists. MaxPow
32 Erj190 : ==== The Americans on TV had their pants pulled down and their genitals mutilated. ==== Where did you see that ? I have access to 4 Portuguese , 2 Sp
33 L-188 : Iraqi Television, Erj190. Aparently they get off on that stuff.
34 KAUSpilot : Erj90, I have the video, however I don't know where you can find it online. If you use kazaa you will be able to find the full graphic video if you do
35 ADG : The Americans on TV had their pants pulled down and their genitals mutilated. Eh? This has NOT been reported on any TV here... One Iraqi man was "play
36 Airplay : The Iraqis haven't declared war on anyone. So as far as they are concerned the Geneva Convention doesn't apply.
37 Alpha 1 : If the US is already scared of the political implications of the captured US troops being shown on Iraqi-TV, then wait till the body-bags start coming
38 KAUSpilot : I already said you can find this on kazaa, it shows the full coverage from al jazeera, which was covering from iraqi TV. I don't know of any websites
39 Post contains images ADG : KAUS, I'm not going to download it because if it's as offensive as others say I simply don't want to see it. But have you (or anyone else) seen it? I'
40 KAUSpilot : Yes, I have seen the tape. It's basically a bunch of guys shot on in the face and lying on the ground with their pants pulled down. Then they pan over
41 Indianguy : you sound like you're about to have an orgasm over this. Does that thought really turn you on, make you feel happy and like a man, and fill you with
42 MD-90 : I only have WinMX (I don't want Kazaa's spyware), and it doesn't have the video, far as I can tell (but then again it tends to be more music than vide
43 KAUSpilot : On kazaa lite I get a solid hit when I do a search for "al-jazeera us pow" Download the largest file there for the most complete footage.
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