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Pink Panties For Prisoners?  
User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 47
Posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2371 times:

I read an intersting story. Perhaps you have too. Apparently, the Sheriff of Maricopa County, AZ (Phoenix area) has set up a "different" kind of county prison. It lacks conventional cells made out of steel and concrete. Rather, the Sheriff has decided that the best way to run his jail would be to have all of the inmates live in outdoor tents-in the desert. Which means they are roasting in the summer, and freezing in the winter.
The article went on to say that in addition to the skimpy living quarters, the inmates are often fed stale, outdated, and even rotting food.
Here's the pieze de resitance:
All of the inmates are required to wear pink underwear. I had to read that statement over and over to make sure I got it right.

Most issues in life, I can take a definite stand on vis a vis my approval or disapproval of it.
This was one of those rare instances where I honestly don't know whether to cheer or boo.

Part of me says "Right on!!!" They are prisoners and deserve to be treated as such. Many of the inmates are there for comitting heinous crimes, and deserve to be treated in an equally cavalier manner.

But another side of me asks if this is really a prudent thing to do? Civil rights issues notwithstanding (and that is not the point of this topic-because regardless of the nature of the institution, I think that prisoners have few-if any rights.), is this really productive?
Exactly what is accomplished by treating them in such a demeaning and low manner? Won't that only serve to-for lack of explaining it a better way-piss them off even more? We are not just talking about guys here-we are talking about MEAN guys-with overinflated guy personas.
Case in point: When they finish serving their sentences, wouldn't they be likely to go out and commit some kind of atrocity-just out of vengeance to the jail they were in? Granted, successful rehabilitation of hardened criminals via any method is a real long shot at best. But treating them in a humiliating manner like I described, wouldn't that still FURTHER diminish the possibility of inmates becoming repeat criminals?
Or is that kind of treatment a deterrent to committing crime in the first place?

Please keep in mind, I am not debating the (il)legality of these methods. Frankly, if I thought they were illegal, this prison would've already been shut down.

How do you feel about this from an ethical standpoint?

Are the criminals getting what they deserve? Is being forced to eat rotten food and wear pink panties a reason to behave and not commit crimes in the first place?

Or is it counterproductive, and will accomplish little more than infuriating those who serve time there, certain to come out even more hardened than when they went in?

Whatever the case, be careful when going through Maricopa County!!!


111 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2183 times:

>>Many of the inmates are there for comitting heinous crimes, and deserve to be treated in an equally cavalier manner. <<

Dude, this is some county pokey in BFE Arizona, not the state pen. Barney Fife here is digging the nationwide publicity he's getting for being Mr. Toughguy. This was the place where there was a death due to the overzealous prison guards using a government-issued stun gun (Sheriff Barney was one of the first to volunteer for the program) 43 times on a prisoner who was already incapacitated.


I don't think prison should be fun and games, but isn't prison supposed to be about rehabbing someone and preparing them to enter society again someday as a law-abiding citizen? I don't think humiliating them and making them more pissed off at the system is going to help.



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineMbmbos From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2598 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2161 times:

I second TWFirst's opinion.

What is the purpose behind doling out humiliation and degradation? What does it acheive?





User currently offlineL_188 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2138 times:

Humiliation and degredation or the threat there of are one of the reasons that keep poeple people from going there.

One of the big mistakes we ever made is when we switched from a "Penal" system to a "Corrections" system

Prison should be feared, and not be consdered a free ride.


User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2136 times:

Humiliation and degredation or the threat there of are one of the reasons that keep poeple people from going there.

Dosen't seem to be having much of an effect. The US is incarcerating people in record numbers.

Oh, and before anyone suggests such conditions have an effect on re-imprisonment, a study commissioned by the office of Sheriff Joe Arpaio (the archetect of this little bit of paradise) and conducted by Arizona State University showed these conditions have had virtually no effect on whether ex-prisoners re-offend.



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineIflycoach From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1015 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2132 times:

That's just the way the way it is in these parts of the world! Big grin

He also sells the underwear (not the same stuff the inmates wear) as a way to make money!

We also have chain gangs and when they work those they got B/W strippes for the outfits ( I thought I'd post that not sure if there are many other around)


User currently offlineBrissie_lions From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2129 times:

I heard the Sheriff was providing this pink underwear from his own jock drawer at home!

This sheriff definitely needs to be shot, and the way he wants to treat these people is disgusting, and I would not be in the least bit surprised if one of them do "shank" him.

Can someone please comment on this statement:

"A person is sent to prison for punishment."


User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2115 times:

I think that what this guy is doing is great. like Brissie lions posted, "A person is sent to prison for punishment." America has to do something because what we are doing now, just isn't working. Prisoners are not being rehabilitated. They are coming out with free college degrees, and looking like body builders, but go right back to a life of crime. Prisoners are coddled in 2001. Every tree hugger is so concerned for these people, yet these prisoners would rob them just th same. Amen t this guy in AZ. Its about time.

User currently offlinePANAM_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4178 posts, RR: 89
Reply 8, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2103 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

Check out the sheriffs home page

http://www.mcso.org/

"Live jail webcam" oh dear



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineBrissie_lions From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2094 times:

I didn't say that "A person is sent to jail for punishment". I asked for a comment on that statement.

The reason being is because the statement as I wrote it is FALSE.

A person is not sent to jail for punishment. They are sent to jail AS punishment.

Yes some people are guilty of the most heinous crimes, but in a society of human beings, we have to treat those people who are guilty of even the most sickening crimes as we would treat anyone else.

This means not giving them rotten food to eat, or to intentionally humiliate them.

Do you know how going to jail punishes a person?

FREEDOM

Nothing more, nothing less. The punishment is their FREEDOM!

Not being able to go out with friends.
Not being able to go to family functions.
Not being able to go for a walk when you want.
Not being able to go the footy.
Not being able to go to work.
Not being able to earn a living.
Not being able to celebrate your birthday with people you love.
Not being able to go to your brother's wedding.
Not being able to go on the holiday all your friends are taking.
etc, etc, etc.

People who talk about how pathetic the justice system being a "correctional" one and not a "penal" one....you are the type of people who should go and spend a month inside jail yourself and see what it is really like.

The majority of prisoners are poorly-educated and from low socio-economic backgrounds. They have not had many chances in life, have fallen into the wrong crowds, and done things which they may not have done if they had of had a good upbringing and all the opportunities a lot of people take for granted.

Yep, throw them in jail, treat them like scum, give them no assistance for personal advancement, and then throw them out on the street. Of course there is a chance they are going to re-offend if you do this.

The majority of people who go to jail come out of the system and make a life for themself. It is the minority for which those people talk about, when they talk of serial re-offenders.

As I said before, just because some people are guilty of heinous acts, does not mean we as a society have to stoop to their level when dealing with the punishment we as a society have for their acts.

But what would I know about anything right?


User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2084 times:

Obviously the sheriff involved has some sort of bondage, s/m fetish that he gets such a kick out of humiliating people.

These are the sorts of stories that people from accross the globe look and shake their heads:

"Only in AMERICA."

What will we hear about next? Some redneck freak with another odd idea to put people in steel cages designed for monkeys and hose them with ice cold water?

Oh, no let me guess, they'll take a few lessons from the Spaniards in medievil torture....

Someone will be singing that great song: "I shot the sheriff..."

Matty,

I am making a wonderful correlation between your hatred of women, Victoria's secret and your fascination with prisoners in pink undies.

I await your next announcement like a scientist that has discovered some rare and interesting species...

Cheers,

mb


User currently offlineDerek H From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2072 times:

Hey, i am all for what they are doing.

Here, in SD the state penn has cable tv, my gosh, do they deserve cable? or TV for that matter?! They have done somthing illegal, they shoudln't have frills!
Their prision time shouldn't be a walk in the park! I mean they are getting treated decent. They are getting clothing, and food. People are starving over seas and they have done nothing ot deserve it, yet prisioners can create havoic on humanity, and still live pretty good.

I think it is great, I am all for harsh punishment, no matter what crime they created, weather it was robbing a store, to murding someone, they are all criminals in the eyes of the law, and should be treated the same. Who says the person/family of the person who got murdered suffered more than the guy who got a gun shoved in his face and told to give hte money. No one suffered more, so all crimals that created the problems need to be treated euqal....


I said it once, i'll say it again, I am all for it...


User currently offlineN766AS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2067 times:

I agree, Derek.

What is prison for?

A - To make criminals wish they had NEVER committed the crime(s) they committed
B - To serve as a crime deterant

If ONE criminal becomes a repeat offender, our prison system has failed in that respect. Our prison system should be the most ruthless, unwilling, and detestable place on the planet (while complying with Amendment VIII). It should be a place that no one EVER wants to return to. They should try to humiliate the prisoners- if the prisoners don't like prison very much because of that, they won't make a point of returning, will they?
But why stray away from crime if you know that if you are caught, you will be placed in a cell with everything you'd ever need- clothing, shelter, food, and, as Derek mentioned, cable TV. That's sure a deterant.
 Insane


I believe our corrections system needs to be as cruel as they can possibly be, short of the Eighth Amendment to the Constitution.

This includes tough prison sentences. If you murder someone, you ought to be executed. If you use a gun in the commision of a crime--any crime--, you ought to be sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. That will curb homicides and crimes commited with guns. PURE COMMON SENSE.


User currently offlineBrissie_lions From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2066 times:

Prison time...a walk in a park? It never has been and it never will be.

Do not people realise that the ultimate punishment you can give to someone which will make then stop and think is TAKING AWAY THEIR FREEDOM!

Do I think that prisoners should have a TV, playstation, cable TV provided for them? No, no I don't. But what I do believe is that by having a system whereby a prisoner thru good behaviour can earn the right to BUY for themselves these things. Nothing in this world is free, and prison should be no different.

Do you people who are advocating this moron, actually think he is going to stick convicted murderers and rapists out in the desert in tents? Get real....these prisoners are kept and will always be kept in maximum security complexes. What he is obviously talking about is putting people who are in for minor offenses in these tents. In this way, you would be treating people worse for "minor" offences than you would for those who have committed "major" crimes.

Everyone, when they think of crime, automatically think of murder, rape and robbery (maybe this is a reflection on how violent your own society is), but don't forget that drink driving, jaywalking, fraud, etc are also crimes. Should a person who is found guilty of traffic offences be given the same harsh punishment as a serial murderer? If you say the answer is yes, you really need to get out in the world, and have a look around you, and start to ask yourself some questions on what justice is all about.

Should a person who is sentenced to prison for crime for a parole term, have to spend that full time in a maximum security prison? No they shouldn't. By putting someone into a maximum security prison for their full term, you are further isolating that person from society. As a person's sentence progresses, and after they have shown that they have respect and general good behaviour, they should have the opportunity to move to a minimum security facility, get exposure back into the community by working in and with the community on projects which will benefit the community.

Anyone who says that prison or capital punishment acts as a deterrent to crime, needs to ask themselves why violent crimes are on the increase. I ask this question to you American's who read this and have those views on crime. Prison and capital punishment DO NOT act as a deterrent. Provide proof on how this is true otherwise.

A lot of people have no idea on how society works, and that prisons are there because of things that are wrong with a person, and that society oftens refuses to address the issues which lead to a person offending in the first place. Take a look at the heroin and naltrexone issue (drug offenders make up an overwhelming number of prisoners).

If a prisoner re-offends, it doesn't mean that the system has failed to deter the person from committing further crime. It has, often, failed the prisoner in helping them to change their ways.

I now look forward to the responses from all the 13-20 year olds out there who have an opinion on everything, but have absolutely no idea how this world works.  Insane


User currently offlineN766AS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2055 times:

>Should a person who is found guilty of traffic offences be given the same harsh punishment as a serial murderer?

Here in the States, traffic infractions have nothing to do with the prison system. No one goes to jail for speeding, jaywalking, etc. If you show up in court, you might get your fine reduced. If you don't show up, expect a bill in the mail. No prison time for going 15mph over the speed limit...

>By putting someone into a maximum security prison for their full term, you are further isolating that person from society

I'd say they isolated themselves when they commited their crimes.

>Prison and capital punishment DO NOT act as a deterrent. Provide proof on how this is true otherwise.

Oh, so prison isn't a deterrent? So whats the point of even having prisions, Brissie?


User currently offlineDerek H From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2053 times:

I think the prision systems has failed every time a person commits a crime, whether it be their first, or fifth. People should know what hell prision is (if it actually was). If they knew that it was horrible (which it isn't) they would think if commiting a crime for fear of going there.

In my opinion, the 'minor' crimes are just as bad as the 'major.' so even if he is just sticking the 'minor' offenders out in the desert, it would be likely they woudln't commit it again, no matter how petty. And if people knew that, that was the punishment for a minor crime, they wouldn't do it either.

How does the prision system think they are going to 'convert' convicts into peopel who can live in society if they are locked in a cement/metal cell 23 hours a day? Is THAT helping them become adjusted to society? I doubt it, HIGHLY doubt it.

Hey, why do you think prostitues are out 'on the town' every night? Even if they do get cought, they are in the holding cell for one night, if that. And then they are back on the street that same night, or next night. Why do people keep doing this? b/c the punishment is so minial (sp?). If they were sentenced to a month in prision for every time they were pick up for prostitution, there woudl be less, for these resons: they would realize that for that 'small' of an offence, they would be in HUGE trouble, in that month they were in they woudln't have acess to drugs, therefore, *maybe* getting them over their addiction to drugs, and *maybre* they could get a REAL job, and change their lives around. Now that would be changing criminals around...Not booking them, then sending them out whoring again....


User currently offlineCstarU From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2047 times:

Prisoners wear pink panties...

Was Marv Albert incarcerated there? ...Yes!!! Big grin

Don't agree with Sheriff Joe, but it's been going on for a long time now and the courts have ruled that it's constitutional..could be worse, they could serve baloney sandwiches for breakfast, lunch and dinner--Oops, that's happened too.


User currently offlineWe're Nuts From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 19
Reply 17, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2046 times:

Arpaio is treating these HUMANS (seems a few of us forget that) horribly. He should be behind bars himself. Eventually, we're going to nail his ass and throw him into the same hell-hole he makes others live in. Cruel and unusual punishment is crime, and we are going to get him for it.

L_188, you disgust me. Hey, here's an idea, why don't you go out, buy a high-powered weapon, and start mowing down those chain-gangs? Skip the middleman, right?  Yeah sure



Dear moderators: No.
User currently offlineBrissie_lions From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2038 times:

Instead of looking at parts of my post, try to look at the whole post and put the whole thing in perspective, and relate it back to the real world.

My point on traffic offences, is that although you are not sent to jail, you are still breaking the law, and hence you are a criminal. I have seen on this thread that ALL criminals should be given the harshest punishment possible.

Prison is not a deterrent, and never will be a deterrent. Prison is there so that people can be removed from society for a time, imposed by the court, as punishment. That is all they are for. You may hear a judge from time-to-time, in sentencing, mention that he is giving this person x-number of years in prison, and hope that it acts as a deterrent to people in future. Judges that say this need to wake up and realise that what they are saying is utter nonsense.

Putting someone in the isolation environment that is a prison is going to cause that person to become institutionalised. Have any of you people seen "The Shawshank Redemption"? It is exactly like that....people become so institutionalised that they see no other choice but to kill themselves or commit another crime; because they can't adjust to life on the outside. In the case of committing another crime, it is often done because they are given food, water, clothing and shelter (guaranteed under the UN Charter on Human Rights....sorry to some of you American guys...I know how unconstitutional this might be for you).

Also, people who commit crimes are not isolated when they commit that crime. They are often isolated from society long before that, and it is often this isolation that is a factor in them committing a crime in the first place.

I think that We're Nuts, and myself, are the only people to have used this word in this thread....HUMANS. Criminals are humans like you and me; the only thing being that they have broken a law that stops them from participating in society. For breaking this law, they have to be punished. Whether they are sentenced to a term of "natural life", or a 10 night stay in the county jail, these people are HUMANS, and have every right to be treated as such, even if some of their crimes may not bring the human out in them.


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2026 times:

The only thing that impresses a prisoner is the sense of shame. Remember please that these gang types, rapists, and other prisoners who go to maximum security jails are actually quite social among themselves, and there is a lot of macho posing going on between them. This goes on in the jail as well.

I agree with what the sheriff has done, except for the bad food part. There is no need to serve sub-standard food. But I want to extend the pink panty business. Make all the prisoners wear french maid uniforms. In such a macho society, they would rather shoot themselves than go to jail, which would be a solid deterrant on one hand, and will lower the court load on the other.

Shame is the key. It is the only thing that will work with the criminal mind. Shame him in front of his friends and family, and then he won't ever want to go back. Right now he doesn't really care either way.

Charles


User currently offlineWe're Nuts From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2027 times:

I don't understand the pink thing... it is just a color, and if everyone else is wearing them, what's the big deal?

>The only thing that impresses a prisoner is the sense of shame.

Be careful with that word "prisoner". A prisoner is anyone ranging from the most brutal killer, to a person who has had to bit too much to drink and needs to spend the night, to a child who has been grounded by his parents. You CANNOT make statements as provocative as that and not be specific.



Dear moderators: No.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2024 times:

Brissie the problem is that for a lot of people shame doesn't throw a lot of wait.

Yes I am condemming society for that

After looking over your list, I had the following comments.

Not being able to go out with friends. (A lot of people have their freinds allready in prison)
Not being able to go to family functions. (Not a biggie
Not being able to go for a walk when you want.
Not being able to go the footy. (forgive my ignorance here but 'footy'??? Must be a local term)
Not being able to go to work. (Why would you want to work, you get three squares a day, a roof over your head and cable tv in a lot of cases. Hell I don't have cable TV)
Not being able to earn a living. (See Above)
Not being able to celebrate your birthday with people you love. (Broken home syndrome)
Not being able to go to your brother's wedding. (Same problem as above, And besides who wants to dress up like a penguin, especially since it was probably his third or fourth Smile/happy/getting dizzy)
Not being able to go on the holiday all your friends are taking(You are still able to but getting air fare is a lot tougher. Seven prisoners down in Texas just proved that.)


We're Nuts:

The absence of personal responsiblity that we seem now is part of the reason why prisons should punish. It used to be that the idea of even being accused of a crime was shameful in and of itself. Actually getting convicted was even worse, but not anymore. When you have so many repeat offenders like we do today, that luster has worn off.

So we are back to having to translate prison with some sort of physical activity or personal shame.

How do you shame the shameless???



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineBrissie_lions From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2028 times:

Here is another question for you guys. And it is an important one, because a lot of you seem to know the lot.

Do you know personally, and have you talked at length to a person who has been to prison?

Have you talked about their hopes, aspirations, and most importantly the shame they feel about being in prison?

How much shame do you think a person would feel having to visit with their family and real friends, separated by a wall of glass?

How much shame do you think a person would feel having to submit to routine strip searches, and maybe the occasional cavity search, because they are not trusted because of the prison drug problem.

All of the comment that L-188 made above are pure fiction and a little too sarcastic.

Why do I say this?

Because those remarks were straight from the mouth of my brother. My brother? Big deal right? What the hell has he got to do with anything? Right?

He has everything to do with this because he has spent some time inside. What for and for how long for is none of your business, but what is your business, is what a prisoner feels when they have their freedom taken away from them.

Prisoners do not have friends....they have acquantances, although my brother's FRIENDS were on the outside, and visited him every week (when possible).

Not being able to go to family functions? Not a biggie? Maybe not for you L-188 who may not give a shit for your family, but how would you feel if you were to ring your family to talk on the phone from prison to find out that they are all sitting down to a meal, and then going out afterwards; as a family; as a family without you. No biggie!? Stop talking like you know it all, no biggie? Family is the only thing which keeps a lot of people in prison going. But you know that right?

Again, celebrating your birthday, or Christmas, or New Years, is the same as above. It is not a very nice feeling celebrating these events which most people do celebrate, alone and in a cell; all the time thinking about what people on the outside are doing.

It is also frightening for most people in prison about rape. People may joke and laugh about "Don't drop the soap". But have you seen the result after a kid of about 20, who was inside for nothing more than refusing to pay traffic fines, was packed raped by 7, yes 7, men. Did this kid deserve that? Pointless question I suppose, unless of course you believe that a person is sent to jail FOR punishment, in which case, several rounds of major surgery, stitches, attempted suicides, etc, etc, is just part of that punishment.

My brother's biggest regrets were:

* Not being able to attend my other brother's wedding and stand up there with us (BTW...it was his first wedding)
* Not being able to attend the funeral of one of his closest friends who was killed in a car wreck.
* Not being able to visit my grandmother in hospital whilst she was on her death-bed.

But, of course, these are no biggies.

I have also had the opportunity to talk to prisoners whilst they are on the inside, thru a job which I did a few years ago. I have talked to them about their hopes, aspirations, dreams and what life they want for themselves, once they get out. I have also talked to them about how they feel about being isolated from the rest of society, and when they are released how society expects them to be a better citizen, even though they have received no help in prison to help address their offending behaviour.

I could go on but I won't (not at this point anyway)

But there are a couple of other things I want to say.

If you guys (yes, the Americans on this board) feel that your prisons are not doing the job they were built for, then get off your arse, get away from this forum, and go and do something about it. You can fairly judge a society by the way that that society treats it's prisoners, and judging by what some of you have said here, American society as a whole is totally #$%@ed up. Don't go blaming it on Democrats or Republicans or Bush or Clinton or Reagan. Blame it on yourselves. After all, it is YOU who let it get that way, not a politician in his office in Washington DC. Why don't YOU do something about it???

Also after have read this thread (which I have hoped would come up sooner or later), you can soon see that we as people are in two different worlds.

The first group (which I belong to) are those people who have lived in the real world; have seen things you wouldn't believe or wish to see, have done things you would never do. We based our opinions and ideas on personal life experiences.

The second group (which several people who shall remain nameless belong to) are those people who live life from a book. They quote the constitution here and there, they quote this and they quote that. But quoting this and that doesn't mean diddly, if you can't relate that into real life experiences. Maybe once some of these people have reached the age of 21, they too might begin to understand what it means to belong to the 1st group.


User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 47
Reply 23, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2017 times:

This may really surprise you, but I have a cousin whom I love dearly who is serving time right now. He was incarcerated in May of 1999, and is scheduled to be relesed in November of 2002.
He first served in Avenal (where I tried to drive up every week to visit him), then was briefly transferred to Corcoran, and he is now currently housed at Soledad.

The reason he is serving that sentence, in a nutshell was because he discharged a rifle in his apartment. It went through his wall, the neighbors wall, the neighbors couch, and out the next wall.
Fortunately, no one was hurt.
Do I feel sorry for him for being locked up? Absolutely?
Do I miss him? You bet.
But as much as I love him, he is still lacking in some common sense and prudent judgement (the fact that his mother [and my mothers sister-my aunt] is one of those incense burning astrology freaks did nothing to help during his childhood, so he had been getting into trouble with the law since he was a teenager).
Do I think he should've gotten a leaner sentence? Of course. But, as I told him the first time I visited him:

"Steve, as much as I care about you, the reason you are here is because of sheer stupidity. If only you checked the rifle to make sure it wasn't loaded. But you were in a hurry, and look at what happened."

Even though he's a blood relative, I still feel he has to pay the price for his actions. It is painful to go up there and see him like that. But what can you do?


As for you MX-boy, you think you may see a pattern, but I think your picture of me is still way off:

The reason I was in Victorias Secret was because my last girlfriend took me there and wanted to get a few little ensembles to try and "spice" things up. In typical Matt D fashion, I didn't notice that she was trying to please me by wearing somthing really sexy, but I DID notice that I liked the music being played in the background.

I don't know what gives you the impression that I hate women. Please elaborate.

And as for the pink panties, talk about tunnel vision on your part. This post has nothing to do with pink panties other than as a means for tormenting prisoners. Look at the bigger picture here and re-read the whole post.

So with all of that in mind, would you like to re-assess what you think here?


User currently offlineWe're Nuts From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 19
Reply 24, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2004 times:

I don't know where some of you are getting this idealized image of a society without crime. No community, throughout history, has ever been crime free, and never will. Why? Because some of it is genetic. We already know that having an XYY genotype will make you more aggressive (scientific fact, not opinion). Our DNA structure is complex beyond our wildest dreams, and we may never understand its true power. It is more than likely that certain criminal traits are genetic. And besides, prison was never meant as a deterrent, it was meant as a way to get the violent off the street, so they can no longer hurt the innocent.


Oh, and for those of you who think prison is a free ride, have you ever been forced to kneel in front of a 310 pound sociopath named "Bubba"? Big grin



Dear moderators: No.
25 DG_pilot : Brissie, you project this image of how a prison system should work, and what should be done, but the thing is, the systems are ALREADY like how you de
26 We're Nuts : >The criminal was sent there, humiliated by SOCIETY, stripped of all but very basic rights (outlined in our Constitution if you live in the U.S.), and
27 DG_pilot : So you are saying the thugs released back on the streets today ARE trusting of law-enforcement and ARE NOT violent towards innocent people????????? HA
28 TWA : "Sheriff Joe" Thas what they call him in Phoenix. I totally agree with his ways, plus I think its pretty funny. TWA
29 Brissie_lions : You think the chain gangs which were prevalent in America were harsh punishment. When you compare that "punishment" to other types of punishment throu
30 Brissie_lions : What is so funny about going to jail and being humiliated and being treated like an animal? Maybe when you unknowlingly commit a crime and are jailed
31 We're Nuts : Adding insult to injury won't keep anyone from knifing you. Prisons were never meant as a deterrent, and will not work in that way. It isn't possible.
32 747-451 : "Don't do the crine, if you can't do the time...." Incarceration must have a "punishment" aspect to it. After all they are "Penal" institutions, aren'
33 KROC : Okay, I have skimmed through all of the above posts, and by most, I am appauled. I can't believe the arguements against that "harsh" treatment some co
34 N766AS : >A prisoner is anyone ranging from the most brutal killer, to a person who has had to bit too much to drink and needs to spend the night, to a child w
35 Post contains images We're Nuts : >what about of the rights of crime victims So two wrongs make a right now? Hmmm, didn't know they changed that.... KROC, YES, absolutely. A human life
36 KROC : Were Nuts, I disagree. A psychopath is not in charge in Arizona, I think he is more of a revelotionary leader. I didn't see one thing wrong with what
37 We're Nuts : But there is a difference between being hard and being cruel. Arpaio is getting his kicks by being cruel to these prisoners, and that is wrong. He is
38 Derek H : So i have this question for all of you, if the prison systme isn't spose to 'cure' some of the freakos in there to make them acceptable to society aga
39 KROC : Were Nuts: From what I have seen about Arpaio, and I will assume is along the lines of what you have seen, or know, yes, I can agree with him. I do no
40 Derek H : And I have another question. Whats the big deal with wearing pink underwear isn't it just a color? Whats embarassing about wearing pink? Just because
41 We're Nuts : I'm sorry, do you know what Amnesty International is? They investigate and publish HELL-HOLES! You don't make their list because you are reforming a c
42 KROC : 1.) I could cry to someone that the Air Force is being unfair to me, and Amnesty International will be here tomorrow to investigate. These prisioners
43 N766AS : >N766AS, don't make me get the Dictionary out again.... A dictionary isn't going to tell you how the American corrections system works. A jail is a pl
44 Brissie_lions : Don't for one moment think that I don't care about victim's rights, because I do. Victims of crime have the right to justice. I also believe that soci
45 Ctbarnes : It's very easy to sit here and make a lot of smug, self-rightious comments about how prisons are contry clubs and heap praise on Arpaio for doing such
46 KROC : >There is nothing cushy about it. It is a humiliating hard, violent existence. < Thats the way it should be. If you break the law, you have to pay you
47 Post contains images N766AS : >I have worked as a chaplain at King County Youth Detention in Seattle... So, is KCYD as cushy as people at school say? I've never been there myself,
48 We're Nuts : KROC, one is far too many. FAR too many. Another death is another life, lost, because this psycho doesn't want to be "cushy". HOW CAN YOU JUSTIFY THIS
49 KROC : While I don't agree with even one instance of excessive abuse of a prisioner, it happens in ever single prision. You want to single one guy out, and t
50 N766AS : >Webster's Dictionary defines "Prisoner" as You know what? I don't care what Webster said. As I said, anyone on this forum that knows anything about t
51 Post contains images Brissie_lions : In essence prison and jail are the SAME thing. N766AS is going on technicalities and such, but they both are places to which a person is sent when the
52 N766AS : >N766AS is going on technicalities and such No... I was trying to show how the treatment in jail is much lighter than in prison. He was saying that pe
53 Post contains images We're Nuts : N766AS, you are talking about "Prison", which has limited meanings, I am talking about "Prisoner", which has many meanings. KROC, someone with your in
54 N766AS : And how is 'prisoner' relevant to this discussion? I am talking about people in prison, versus people in jail. There is a large difference there...
55 Post contains links We're Nuts : http://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/37000/ Try to keep up.
56 Brissie_lions : There is NO difference between a person in jail and a person in prison. They have both broken the law. They have been found guilty of a crime They hav
57 Post contains images L-188 : Brissie said: "But in this case, I am saying "I am right....you are wrong" Sorry, but IMOH you are about 180 degrees off I have some additional though
58 We're Nuts : I believe Brissie is claiming victory in the prison/jail discussion, not the psychotic Sheriff one. Okay, before N766AS replies, lets just agree on th
59 Post contains images Ctbarnes : So, is KCYD as cushy as people at school say? I've never been there myself, but some people I know (who have spent the night there...hehe)... Why Zach
60 DG_pilot : Once again, the liberals are demonstrating their over-emotionalistic orgasims common with nearly every issue they 'stand' for. -Dustin
61 Post contains images TWFirst : "over-emotionalistic orgasims" Boy, they sure learn ya good 'bout grammar and spellin' down there in good old Fairfax, Missouri, don't they Dusty??? M
62 Ctbarnes : Hmmm... Could the definition of a "liberal" in this context be any viewpoint contrary to one's own? Charles, SJ
63 KROC : TWFirst with scathing, yet true commentary. Gotta love it!
64 TWA : Come on dude, Give me a break. My theory is Prison isnt a Country Club!!! Its suppose to be tough, and grueling. I'm not going to be in Prison so I wo
65 We're Nuts : >Its suppose to be tough, and grueling. But it ain't supposed to kill ya, kid!
66 KROC : >But it ain't supposed to kill ya, kid! Just like another person isn't supposed to kill another person out of cold blood. Life's a bitch...
67 Post contains images TWFirst : I go back to my original post: THIS IS THE COUNTY JAIL!!! Not the state pen. Murderers don't serve their sentences in the county pokey. But I get your
68 TWA : Well Said KROC!!!!! TWA
69 DG_pilot : Get a life. Stop pointing out my typos. You might think it is fun to do so on a forum, but no one really cares. We have ALL made them. How childish of
70 We're Nuts : Not like you, right? >liberals are demonstrating their over-emotionalistic >nearly every issue they 'stand' for >They have been liberalized >rather th
71 We're Nuts : Listen, I don't want to be soft on crime, but when death is used as a restraint method, I draw the line. Frankly, no one cares if you give a "boo fuck
72 Post contains images N766AS : >There is NO difference between a person in jail and a person in prison. No. Have you ever been in an American jail? Have you ever been in an American
73 KROC : My "boo fuckin hoo" about human life is in reguards to a convicted criminal, who doesn't give a fuck about a human life as well. Come on Were Nuts. Se
74 We're Nuts : >who doesn't give a fuck about a human life as well. You think everyone in jail is a mass-murderer, don't you? HA! Try again. >the officers were repri
75 Post contains images KROC : Okay, now I am an Anti-Christ. Thats a little extreme Were Nuts. You see, your trying to say that because i have no compassion for a prisioner, I have
76 Post contains images TWFirst : Aw come on Dusty, give me some credit... I'm discrediting you not only because of your message, but also because of your lack of knowledge, lack of lo
77 Post contains images We're Nuts : >No I don't, and I clearly pointed that out, by saying the following, "I refuse to worry about some killer, robber, rapist, or petty thief", that righ
78 DG_pilot : ""I'm discrediting you not only because of your message, but also because of your lack of knowledge, lack of logic..."" Isn't that what we all occasio
79 Post contains images TWFirst : Smile, Jesus loves you.
80 NWA Man : First of all, let me say I respect your opinions, however much I disagree with them (and I'm a moderate)... Getting a little bit off topic and on a di
81 We're Nuts : >people under 21 have no idea what life is all about and how the world works? You have to admit, they are responsible for most of the junk in these fo
82 KROC : So now Arapios prision is being run similar to a concentration camp? Were Nuts, you make valid points all the time, but you tend to be a little extrem
83 Ctbarnes : If this guy was as bad as you say, your beloved Amnesty International would have this guy gone. Some politician trying to make a name for himself woul
84 DeltaRNOmd-80 : I'm sure there is a bleeding heart liberal SOMEWHERE in Maricopa County. Why don't one of you on here give him a call and have him file a lawsuit?
85 We're Nuts : >your beloved Amnesty International would have this guy gone. You know Amnesty International doesn't actually have any political power... don't you? >
86 Brissie_lions : This is my last word on this topic. I am not for making a person's jail time easy...they should have it hard, but at the same time, make it easy for t
87 Ctbarnes : Scottie, I might add that half the people incarcerated in this country are for drug-related offences, mostly posession and use. Charles, SJ
88 Post contains images Brissie_lions : Charles Please feel free to add that. I have mentioned it many times before, but maybe it being posted by an American may get people to actually take
89 Ctbarnes : Scottie, Incarcerating drug offenders is not only couter productive, it is also expensive. The average annual cost to feed and house a prisoner is abo
90 DeltaRNOmd-80 : We're Nuts, maybe YOU are tired of it, but not everyone is tired of it. Its only pointless, childish and partisan bullsh*t because YOU dont agree with
91 We're Nuts : I'm sorry, you're right DeltaRNOmd-80. Okay everyone, listen up. By a show of hands, who here thinks that "I'm sure there is a bleeding heart liberal
92 DeltaRNOmd-80 : okay everyone, by a show of hands, who here thinks that "Will you shut up already? We are all sick of your pointless, childish, partisan bullshit. Go
93 Post contains images Brissie_lions : Okay everyone, listen up. By a show of hands, who here thinks that "I'm sure there is a bleeding heart liberal SOMEWHERE in Maricopa County. Why don't
94 Post contains images KROC : Damn, I missed alot of action in here tonight. Both relevent, and irrelevant. Hmmm. Oh well, it was wrestling night, and since I am a law abiding citi
95 We're Nuts : >I have never been in a 4 star hotel before Hey, if not getting killed by the guards is 4 star hotel....
96 Johnboy : Regarding drug offences: California passed a statewide proposition whereby the first two drug possession charges do not involve prison/jail time. Trea
97 DG_pilot : ""Drug addiction should be treated like the medical problem that it is, not punished by sending one to prison."" It is probably more of a 'lack of com
98 Brissie_lions : Again DG_Pilot, has shown that he lives in the same textbook world that N766AS, DeltaRNwhatever, and several other people live in. You know absolutely
99 We're Nuts : >You have no idea what it means to be addicted to drugs Let me see if I can field this one, Brissie. DG_pilot, it would be us telling you that you cou
100 Ctbarnes : Morals DO come into play here, but not in the way you might think, Dustin. Addiction is a disease. A well-documented and recognized one within the med
101 787 : What the hell do you care if they wear pink panties or yellow boxers! They're in prison, and they could do what they wish. -Farv
102 Access-Air : Hey guys.... You bethcha these people are there for punishment.... and I am tired of seeing all this publicity of about how these inmates rights are b
103 We're Nuts : Good, you can join L-188 when he goes out to mow down those chain-gangs.
104 FlyBoeing : I don't agree with the excesses of the Maricopa County system (i.e, the expired food feeding...that's wrong) but I do believe that prison ought to be
105 L-188 : We're nuts: You must really despise me. Why would I mow down somebody who allready was in a chain gang??? I am a little fuzzy on that one.
106 KROC : 60's Minutes will have a feature on The Sheriff of Marcopia County tonight.
107 Derek H : Tonight, sunday night? What station is it on (CBS, ABC, NBC, etc.)?
108 KROC : I believe CBS is the network that carries 60 Minutes, but check you're T.V. Guide, or www.tvguide.com
109 Derek H : Wow...that portion of the show just got over. I LOVE what he is doing, as i have said in a few posts above. He deserves alot of credit for doing it! I
110 Post contains images KROC : Derek, we agree on this. I suppose we should start a new thread for this, since after the showing, this topic might get active again, . Anyway, here i
111 Csavel : Skimmed the posts, forgive me if this was said before. Being tough on crime is good, but not stupid publicity stunts. Prison should be tough in a way
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