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US Plane Bombs Americans And Kurds  
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1587 times:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2921743.stm

Scary video on News 24 with the cameraman's blood (!) on the lens.

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1568 times:

The fog of war rears it ugly head once again.


"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offlineSchoenorama From Spain, joined Apr 2001, 2440 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1547 times:

Terrible pictures!

I wonder, if it had been Al Jazeera instead of the BBC filming and broadcasting this, what would the Pentagon have said?



Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
User currently offlineADG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1530 times:

They just give them fluffy names like "blue on blue" to hide the fact that it's really "some idiot that can't figure out he's killing his own people".




ADG


User currently offlineGlenn From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1519 times:

It's legalised murder

But it's all in the name of Liberation

1 barrel for Iraq
2 Barrells for USa


User currently offlineTechRep From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1515 times:

What’s even funnier is some idiot is judging that person from the comfort of his/her home with little or no information.

TechRep


User currently offlineGlenn From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1511 times:

Nah, we are all presented with teh facts

CNN and Fox



User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13742 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1506 times:

I do recommend you viewing both videos at
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/video/39060000/rm/_39060081_attack18_simpson_vi.ram and at http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/video/39058000/rm/_39058629_iraq_simpson_1135_vi.ram in that order.

Quite shocking and unpleasant.



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1495 times:

ADG, from prior posts, you seem to have a lot of respect for soldiers. Why the contempt for American soldiers? They are just as brave and honorable as your Aussie soldiers who also deserve the utmost respect (they get mine, that's for sure). Just curious.

BTW, I doubt the Pentagon gets there info from the media.

To Glenn: I hate to disrupt your little impression of CNN and Fox, but both reported this quite a while ago.



"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineBoacvc10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 611 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1485 times:

And still no WMD (remember, the first reason for all this carnage). It would be funny except for millions of willfully ignorant and the thousands of dead and injured.


Up, up and Away!
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1482 times:

ADG, from prior posts, you seem to have a lot of respect for soldiers. Why the contempt for American soldiers?

She's anti-American.

It's legalised murder

Ya, whatever Glenn.  Insane Not unlike the Aussie treatment of aborigines over the decades perhaps.





Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineGlenn From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1481 times:

I give the troops my highest regards doing what they do.

It just seems the American menatlity is shoot first ask questions later. i don't hold that against the troops. Just the Doctrine that is instilled into them.

Jet Service, I don't understand your post. Tech rep made a comment about some one from home making a judgement. I replied I get all the evidence on Cnn and Fox, and you now tell me that Cnn and Fox reported it some time ago. Aren't you saying the same thing as me ????

yeah where are these WMDs

1 barrell for Iraq
2 barrells for usa


User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1467 times:

Glenn, this bombing was an accident, not a mentality. If it were policy, it would be happening much more ofter. This stuff happens. As for your media comment, I misunderstood. My apologies.


"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineGlenn From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1462 times:

I understand it was more likely an accident. Much like all the other friendly fire incidents. Just seems way too common for an army fighting with the state of art technology.

Or an updated road map in the case of the attack on the Chinese embassy Wink/being sarcastic

Surely with all this training and technology, there is a way to identify friend from foe, and if not sure, don't do it.









User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1449 times:

Glenn, considering the volume of missions, one would be suprised at the accuracy if put to a percentage. Perfection would be nice, but we all know about that. I hope it doesn't happen again, of course, but I do have reasonable expections.


"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineAirplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1441 times:

Now I understand the coalition's desire for a short war. If it goes much longer, the US military is in danger of wiping out the coalition forces...

I have grown to question the ability and mentality of the US (not UK) ground forces and the training of the US armed forces as a whole. What kind of clowns do they have behind those triggers?


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1441 times:

I agree with JetService. If you look at it on a percentage basis, the number of accidents, while tragic, are minimal, and probably not outside what is expected. In this day and age of "embedded" journalists, videophones and CNN, EVERYTHING gets put under a microscope.

And Glenn, in a war, especially one with false surrenders, soldiers dressed as, and hiding behind civilians, and with car bombings, you'd shoot first and ask questions later, if you value your life.


User currently offlineGlenn From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1431 times:

Minimal. at around 50% who is the real enemy  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

But yes, I would much rather 100 thn 200 people die, but then I would much rather nil.

The story really is the thousands of Injured Iraqies as well. While they may not be dead like the other few hundred, some injuries are more than cuts and bruises. Some may never walk. some may never see


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1428 times:

Are you saying that 50% of all sorties, and all attacks have resulted in friendly fire causalties, Glenn? I want to make sure I understand you right.

User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29795 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1422 times:

For some reason I would suspect that if is sometimes difficult to make out the patches on a uniform from 40,000 feet and at 500 miles an hour.


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineGlenn From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1411 times:

no, about 50 percent of American deaths Alpha

User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1407 times:

no, about 50 percent of American deaths Alpha

Glenn, that's more of a testiment to the lack of deaths by enemy fire. To put this into perspecitive, you need to look at total missions and how many errors. I don't have the exact numbers, but just to give you an example, if there's been 8000 sorties so far and you get 4 friendly fire incidences, you're looking at an accuracy rate of 99.95%. I don't want to trivialize the seriousness of the errors and certainly not those killed, but lets get real here.



"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineGlenn From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1400 times:

well yes and no.

The American/Coalition have the most modern advanced and well trained troops. Yet they managed to kill as many of themselves as the enemy did.

granted it is is difficult to see uniforms at 40 000 feet. So why fire on them if you are not sure.


User currently offlineADG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1384 times:

JetService,

I dont' dislike American troops, I suggest you read the previous thread on the stroker in the A10. I'll re-iterate it for you....

There are 2 types of friendly fire incidents. Those that, in the heat of battle that are truely accidents and unavoidable and then there are the acts of absolute idiocy that lead to the deaths of their own people.

I can accept the first type, anyone in the military understands that. But the second type, that's unacceptable AND deserves negative comment. Dont' kid yourself, it's quite possible to identify your target PRIOR to attacking it and to then attack it, but it seems that some pilots don't bother to do that, and on the information given so far this seems to be one of those incidents.

I would have commented the same way if this pilot was American, Canadian, Korean, Russian or Australian. It's got nothing to do with anti-american sentiment and everything to do with the fact that the UK/US Governments have sent their soldiers over to fight a war which in itself is a very dangerous thing to do. These people are being shot at by people who want to kill them, they are doing a very dangerous job. THEY DONT NEED TO BE SHOT AT BY THEIR OWN PEOPLE. The pilots have an obligation to identify prior to attacking.

I don't know if it was reported over there or not, but one of our FA-18 pilots aborted a mission and returned to base without firing a shot, some people (foreigners) complained about this but when interviewed the pilot could not verify that the target did not involve friendly fire and accordingly he did not engage. He was NOT reprimanded for that.

Given that the Iraqis have NO aircraft in the air the risk is far lower to the aircraft and they really do have enough time to assess prior to attack unlike the soldiers on the ground who are at higher risk and must make decisions in a more timely manner.

and this "house mom" spent enough time in the RAAF to know this is a fact.

and yyz, you should try keeping your mouth closed as it would be better if we just thought of you as a fool rather than you proving it every time you open your mouth. You clearly know nothing about Australia and your comments on the aboriginals are ignorant and nothing more than you having a petty tantrum.



ADG


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1361 times:

it's quite possible to identify your target PRIOR to attacking it and to then attack it

This shows how little you know about combat. it is often extremely difficult to identify friend from foe in the heat of combat.

this "house mom" spent enough time in the RAAF to know this is a fact

Big deal. The RAAF employs thousands of people from cleaners to cooks. Your stint in the RAAF adds no value to the discussion of friendly fire unless you've been in combat yourself. Stop bragging.

yyz, you should try keeping your mouth closed as it would be better if we just thought of you as a fool rather than you proving it every time you open your mouth. You clearly know nothing about Australia

Really? Because I dare to disagree with the high & mighty ADG? It's quite possible I could teach you a thing or two about Australian history.











Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
25 KLAX : I have grown to question the ability and mentality of the US (not UK) ground forces and the training of the US armed forces as a whole. What kind of c
26 EGGD : I bet he could, you know. Some of the soldiers i've seen on Television giving interviews seem like cowboys... I remember seeing a soldier just after h
27 Airplay : I'd like to see you do a better job. What kind of silly statement is that? I'm not in the military, nor am I an expert in training military personnel.
28 Airplay : /snip into post above/ This shows how little you know about combat. it is often extremely difficult to identify friend from foe in the heat of combat
29 Erj190 : There are occurrences of friendly fire in most conflicts. In WW2, thousands of Germans and Russians died because of friendly fire. In the invasion of
30 KLAX : I'm not in the military, nor am I an expert in training military personnel. Why would I even attempt to engage in this sort of thing? And you critisiz
31 LH423 : this has never happened before. Of course it's never happened before. This is really the first time that embedded journalists have been used to such a
32 Yyz717 : I am also amazed and the "cleanliness" of it. The fact that by and large only military and government installations have been hit in Baghdad, and ther
33 Airplay : Exactly LH423. I agree completely. This highlights the inherent goodness of the American military. However, leftists and other anti-American radicals
34 Yyz717 : Who helps you write this "Che Guevara" reveloutionary jargon? I think you've got your revolutionaries mixed up. Che is on the extreme left, like you.
35 777236ER : Yyz, you can't shout "anti fucking American!!!!!" all the time with no proof. And exactly what does it have to do with a Canadian like you? You seem t
36 Jaysit : Just as an aside, the atrocities committed against the Abos in Australia in the 19th century were pretty horrific (which incidentally makes Saddam's r
37 CX747 : Yet again the "Aussie Posse" rears their heads and makes comments that even a 5 year old know are false. The bombing is an accident, now WSO in the ba
38 Silverfox : 757 What fecking fog? If that dingbat cannot tell his own counties flag from 500ft. then he shouldnt be driving a golf buggy let alone a plane Fog my
39 Post contains images KLAX : If that dingbat cannot tell his own counties flag from 500ft. then he shouldnt be driving a golf buggy let alone a plane How do you know the F-15 was
40 Silverfox : Clovis I know because John Simpson,thats him in the picture, said the plane was at 500ft and he is a little bit closer to the action than you or i, an
41 Silverfox : Clovis I know because John Simpson,thats him in the picture, said the plane was at 500ft and he is a little bit closer to the action than you or i, an
42 KLAX : You think an F-15 going about 600mph 500ft over the ground (VERY FAST) and the guy will have TIME to look out the window and see what is probably a 1x
43 Silverfox : Clovis, Perhaps i am not explaining myself properly. Yes, i accept in war there are problems always have been. But, with todays technology it should b
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