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French And Germans Should Be Ashamed Of Themselves  
User currently offlineSean-SAN- From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 772 posts, RR: 1
Posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2424 times:




Anyone who's watched the shear joy of the Iraqi's today after being liberated from years of brutal dictatorship can't help but feel happy. What's sad is it would have never happened if the French and Germans got their way.

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2390 times:

Have they gotten together yet with Russia to have a summit on rebuilding on Afghanistan or did they skip ahead to Iraq?

User currently offlineDc10guy From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 2685 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2370 times:

Ha, Ha, the frogs & the krouts had the oil now its ours Ha hA ....


Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
User currently offline777YYC From Canada, joined May 2000, 744 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2344 times:

Is anyone posting photos of Iraqi children mutilated by coalition bombs?
The eternal question:
Do the ends justify the means?

[Edited 2003-04-10 04:45:12]

User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2307 times:

That troop that stuck an American flag on that statue was ordered to *get it down now* and replaced it with an Iraqui flag.

mb

bozo=evil


User currently offlineSean-SAN- From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 772 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2309 times:

Thanks 777YYC, I forgot. F*** Canada too.









User currently offlineAirplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2298 times:

Sean-San...showing your true colors. I'm glad most American people are not as ignorant.

User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2295 times:

I guess we should have left Germany alone since civilians died in the process of removing Hitler. Okay. We'll remember that the next time around.

User currently offline777YYC From Canada, joined May 2000, 744 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2286 times:

That's where justification comes in.

User currently offlineGlenn From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2283 times:

Germans and french can hold their heads high. They weren't needed, and killed no one in the process.

User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2279 times:

Like I said elsewhere, the cheese-eating surrender monkeys will scurry down from the treetops now that the fighting is over. I think we should try to reconcile with Germany but leave France out for a few years. Or at least until Chirac and Villepin are out of office.

User currently offlineWe're Nuts From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2275 times:

Why should I care about Iraqis? Revolution is their problem, not mine.

I want my money back.



Dear moderators: No.
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2252 times:

No one should ever be made ashamed of wanting to avoid war. There are times when one must fight, but ashamed of trying to avoid war?

Not logical.


User currently offlineBOEING747-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2250 times:

I don't think Canada should be Ashamed at all. No one should be. The Americans should be even more happy they can do it with out anyhelp. Just goes to show you that they can do it and be proud of it. I dont give a FLYING F*CK personaly!!!!!! Not affecting me!! Sounds bad but oh well deal with it.

[Edited 2003-04-10 05:57:05]

User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4467 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2227 times:

The way that the American soldiers were greated today proves that the Iraqi people believe the end justifies the means.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineGlenn From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2214 times:

Like I said elsewhere, the cheese-eating surrender monkeys
Oh, you've been in combat, you can speak from experience or just jerkin yuor gherkin to the beat of the drum

The way that the American soldiers were greated today proves that the Iraqi people believe the end justifies the means

Like all elections, the winners celebrate, the losers hide away.
I have yet to see 5 million Iraqies cheering in the streets.


User currently offlineVC-10 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 1999, 3708 posts, RR: 34
Reply 16, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2214 times:
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What's sad is it would have never happened if the French and Germans got their way.

Has anybody considered that if Saddam had taken the long term view, and co-operated fully with the UN he would still have his country.

Short term he would have lost his alledged stock pile of WDM but it would have removed the US's excuse to go in and he would still have his palace's.


User currently offlineGlenn From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2201 times:

But then the People wouldn't have been liberated.
Yeah that was sarcasm. Sorry  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


User currently offlineOO-AOG From Switzerland, joined Dec 2000, 1426 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2183 times:

Ha, Ha, the frogs & the krouts had the oil now its ours Ha hA ....

No comment  Yawn



Falcon....like a limo but with wings
User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 6054 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2169 times:

Actually, it was the US that was on the recieving end of the Iraqi oil pipielines, but let's just forget about that....  Insane

I think it all comes down to mentality. German cities were destroyed en masse in WW2, and then they lived under the threat of complete instinction for some 40 years. That would explain why they're against war.


User currently offlineADG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2161 times:

I don't think the problem is so much about the German & French desire to not wage war. I think the problem is the petty, small minded individuals that feel the need to vilify them for not being violent.




ADG


User currently offlineG-KIRAN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2000, 736 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2159 times:

German cities were destroyed en masse in WW2, and then they lived under the threat of complete instinction for some 40 years.

Well,if it was not for the Americans the Russians would have destroyed German cities en masse in WW3.


User currently onlineFly-K From Germany, joined May 2000, 3162 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2147 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

What an ugly, nasty discussion. Shows again that this forum is the worst part of a.net.


Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 23, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2123 times:

Just in case I want to remember some of the younger members and some of the forgetful older ones about something that happened in the summer of 89, I don't know if anybody is interested but I'll do it anyway, if this helps one person to understand the German position just one little bit better, it was worth writing!

Once there were two German countries, FRG and GDR, the latter being the East German, that is, the Soviet Union-related part, and the first one the NATO-related part, the separation result of World War II.

In 1989 the people of the GDR started something that went into history as the only completely (!!) unbloody fall of an extremely nasty totalitarian regime, that of Erich Honecker (he of the 98% election results Big grin). People went into the streets to demonstrate, the so-called Monday demonstrations, that were started in Leipzig but soon spread over the whole country. Thousands of people fled to Hungary, Czechoslowakia etc. into the West German Embassies and waited there under subhuman conditions during the summer but none of them went back even though the GDR guaranteed not to arrest anybody.
We know today that Honecker and Mielke had already plans set up to deal with these people in a very bloody way, and people knew that (remember 1953?), yet they went out and their number increased and increased, in September there was literally 60% of the whole population in the streets. Knowing that there would be no help or back-up from the Soviet Union this time, as Michail Gorbatchev had already made clear that the days of killing one's own people were somehow over. In the end they bowed to the totally violence-free pressure from the streets and stepped down, and the next thing from the new government (Egon Krenz-led) was to open up all frontiers...which happened in the night of the 9th October 1989 in Berlin, checkpoint Bernauer Strasse and btw was a misunderstanding by Politkommittee-member Guenter Schabowsky who somewhat over-interpreted something Krenz had said.

But it happened, and now we come back to Iraq yesterday: I do understand the reaction of these people just too well, because I was there in Berlin that night, too, and I climbed onto the infamous Berlin Wall and tried to hack pieces from it with a little hammer, and what I saw yesterday on Television did resemble so much what happened that night in Berlin.

What do I want to say with this little story? The East German government was every bit as brutal and corrupt as the former Iraqi gov. yet it was kicked into the drain of history without weapons (I guess Gandhi and MLK would have been proud of these people), the Wall was torn down without hurting anybody and finally on October 3rd, 1990, one of the two German countries ceased to exist. The people of East Germany have a lot of bad experience with wars to "free" people, yet they saw it happen, therefore they don't believe in war anymore. This might be right or wrong, in the case of Iraq only time will tell and NOBODY here does know that right now. Part of the party that came from the East German Citizen movement that was instrumental in those demonstrations is now part of the government, as they merged with West German Green party (Buendnis 90/ Die Gruenen), the party of Mr. Fischer. So basically parts of the peace movement are now part of the government, and this is a peace movement that is NOT influenced by some communist secret service but instead brought one of the most infamous one, the Ministerium fuer Staatssicherheit, down on its knees without firing one single bullet.

I guess these people have a right to be against war and believe that tyrannies can be brought down by other means, becasue they already proved it.

I myself am not a pacifist and never was one, but I deeply respect the position of anyone who did this knowing quite well that his her life was under permanent danger in the streets of east Berlin, Leipzig and Dresden and anywhere else. And GWB should ask his daddy about this, he was US president at these times and during the so-called 4+2 negotiations he was on the German side from the very beginning, maybe he can talk some understanding of why Germany opposed this war from the very beginning into GWB's head.

Now to those stupid little comments above: Why commenting such stupid macho kidtalk, every word would be to much to those braindeads!
And no...we are not ashamed of ourselves!

[Edited 2003-04-10 10:13:58]


I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineBoeing757/767 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 2282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (11 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2069 times:

They should be ashamed? For favoring diplomacy and inspections over war?

You're sick to even say that.



Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
25 GKirk : They should be ashamed of not wanting war? Ashamed for their governments decisions? I dont see there be a need for them to feel ashamed. Clowns will r
26 Post contains images Yyz717 : I think the problem is the petty, small minded individuals that feel the need to vilify them for not being violent. Not unlike the small minded indivi
27 Goingboeing : Gol-dang it - them Frenchies and Krauts ought to be ashamed of themselves for not wanting to turn I-rak into a glass parking lot. Now, let's get them
28 Flying Belgian : Look at the brand new american charity... I wanna cry !!!! I am proud to be Europan.
29 Post contains images Andreas : GoingBoeing: ROFLMAO!!! I knew there is a reason for this war: You wanted to get rid of the likes of Jerry Falwell...wow, what a cunning plan to do so
30 Sabena332 : What an ugly, nasty discussion. Shows again that this forum is the worst part of a.net. I agree absolutely! I hope that this forum will be closed soon
31 Airplay : Not unlike the small minded individuals that feel the need to vilify the US for being the liberators, eh ADG? Typical hypocritical logic you have ther
32 Rabenschlag : the problem that some had with this war is the lack of legitimization. speaking metaphorical: for sure, a lone sheriff deciding on its own can do thin
33 Post contains images Manni : Ashamed, for what? Did the US already found WMD in Iraq, owned by Saddam's army?
34 TriStar500 : Sean-SAN, Maybe your home town San Diego has to be bombed into ruins, maybe there have to be civilian and military casualties in your own family and m
35 744rules : I fully agree with the fact that Saddam is/was a dictator, but didn't Bush say that weapons of mass destruction were the reason of the invasion and no
36 744rules : oeps, looks like this is under discussion on another thread
37 Post contains links Go Canada! : I rspect the german position more since they are a pacifist country. they always made it clear from day one that they couldnt back a war nor send troo
38 Jaysit : "The Germans and French indeed did kill people, indirectly. Anyone who sought to extend the Saddam regime is complicit in his continued abuses of his
39 Sabena 690 : Live all in your dreamworld... It didn't go about the liberation about the Iraqi people for the Germans/French, but for the way this all happened. Wai
40 Go Canada! : Live all in your dreamworld... It didn't go about the liberation about the Iraqi people for the Germans/French, but for the way this all happened. Wai
41 Sabena 690 : Go Canada, are you serious? You only see this so small as 'Iraq'? Your borders don't go any further? This is a world conflict, with worldwide conseque
42 Post contains images BOEING747-700 : I am Canadian and I can tell you this Bro....I AM NOT ASHAMED NOT ONE F_CKEN bit.
43 MASB747 : French And Germans Should Be Ashamed Of Themselves Some posters here should be ashame of themselves for posting this kind of immature + childish topic
45 747-451 : Germany: Of all the countries I can think of, I can understand their reticence in getting involved. They have personal experience with a dictator, the
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