ADG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4475 times:
A FATHER and several teenagers told yesterday how they desperately tried to prevent two school friends cramming into the boot of an overloaded car shortly before it crashed, killing them both.
St Ignatius Riverview students Billy O'Connor and Sam Turner died instantly when the car packed with six girls slammed boot first into a power pole on a wet Mona Vale Rd at Ingleside on Sydney's northern beaches on Saturday.
Yesterday, school friends of the two, aged 18 and 17, spoke of last-minute attempts to stop them from getting in the boot of the Volkswagon Golf hatch being driven by a 17-year-old girl, a student from Queenwood School at Mosman.
The Year 12 students were at a joint 18th birthday party for classmates Ross Walsh and Angus Campbell at Ingleside when the girl offered to ferry partygoers from the house to Mona Vale. She was on her fourth lap when the accident happened, just two streets from the party.
"One of the boy's dads and another kid tried to stop them from getting into the boot," a fellow partygoer and Riverview student said.
"But they still got in. We still can't believe this has happened."
The boy and his friend earlier had ridden with the girl.
"She seemed fine," the boy said of the driver. "She was just doing everyone a favour. We all feel sorry for her."
St Ignatius headmaster Shane Hogan was woken by a phone call from the Year 12 boarding master, whom the remaining Riverview boys at the party had contacted when they learned of the accident.
By 2.15am Mr Hogan was at the party himself, ascertaining what had happened.
He was told that the VW was overloaded with eight passengers and that the boys had been advised by peers not to travel in the boot.
"There were kids standing there saying 'This is a silly thing to do'. They'd asked the boys to get out of the boot," he said.
"This is an appalling accident that should never have occurred. They made an appalling judgment."
Police said yesterday the driver and her passengers still were too distraught to be interviewed.
Although police have said beer cans were found at the crash scene, Mr Hogan denied the party was a boozy affair.
"I was told that the beer ran out quite early and that people had begun to leave by 12.30am, which is quite subdued for an 18th," he said.
Schoolmates of the two boys yesterday pinned a Riverview school jersey and messages on the power pole in tribute to the two talented sportsmen.
A message read: "To Wammy and Billy, you'll live in our hearts and memories forever, all our love, from the View Boys."
Harden Rugby Club captain Danny Flannery said the O'Connor family was a huge part of the club and that Billy's father Peter had helped start the club.
"Everyone knows the O'Connors," Mr Flannery said yesterday. Billy was "very energetic and a good little footballer too".
"It will rock Harden for a long time," he said.
Mr Flannery said the entire rugby club was close to the family and would be at the funeral today.
I think there is only so much you can do with teenagers in cars, our government is struggling to come up with a solution to try and lower the death toll in a group who feels that they don't need to be told anything about driving and who feel they are the best drivers on the road. Time after time we read about accidents like this, caused by inexperience and poor driving skills yet all attempts to wake the kids up fail.
I'm not sure there is an answer, but not a week goes by when we're not faced with a horific accident involving teenagers in cars... I wonder what the solution is.
MD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8418 posts, RR: 13 Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4358 times:
This is sad. 8 people in a Golf is going to seriously overload it, to the point where driving it would be dangerous. And how the heck are two teenaged boys going to get into the cargo area of a Golf, anyway? That's a mighty small space for two guys. But of course, that doesn't leave any room for any kind of crumple zone in an accident. That's a sad story.
Avt007 From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 2131 posts, RR: 5 Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4340 times:
Teenagers and cars will always be a bad mix. I`d be willing to bet that almost every member here could relate a similiar story from their teenage years. There is nothing you can do, except maybe raise the driving age to 21.
Airplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4333 times:
I don't agree with raising the driving age. That will just raise the age of the people dying in auto accidents.
Training is the answer. Increase the standards required to obtain a drivers licence. Graduated licences are a good idea too. This gives you additional licenced privilages as you train. For instance, not everyone is skilled enough to travel at high speeds on a crowded highway.
Avt007 From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 2131 posts, RR: 5 Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4335 times:
Personally I feel that new drivers should not be allowed to have passengers. How often do you hear of a lone teenage driver having a bad accident versus a carload of teenagers? I've been there,everybody egging the driver on until something stupid happens.
Goingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 19 Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4325 times:
Gotta agree Avt007 - A few years ago in my town, 5 high school girls were killed when the mustang convertible they were in was hit by a van. None of the 5 were wearing a seatbelt, in fact, the 3 in the back seat were sitting on the top of the rear seatbacks. The road was a two lane with a 45 mph speed limit, the right front wheel dropped off the roadway, the driver overcorrected into the path of the van in the oncoming lane and all of them were thrown from the car and killed. Oh, the obligatory crosses and flowers marked the spot, and the high school they attended had the "remember the girls" posters. But it doesn't stop carloads of kids from "showing off". Things like that shake them up for maybe a week. But after that, they go back to the "that would never happen to me" mindset.
NWA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 1200 posts, RR: 4 Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4294 times:
Older people should not be able to drive IMO. I am talking about 75 and so on. Mind you, this was not a crash because they were not trained. They pulled a stupid move. Same with drunk drivers. Its not they cant drive, they just make a REAL stupid decision. Crashs will happen at any age. True, teens crash more. I am also willing to bet teens also drive more (alot, anyways). I will admit it, my father is a better driver than I. I recived no points on my drivers training test, but I still have alot to learn. Its all part of expirence. If we raised it to 21, there would be just as many crashs at 21. I will admit it, I have done stupid crap in my car. Hell, going down a dirt road I throw the Parking brake, and its fun! Stpid, yes. I shouldn't do it. Getting road headis also stupid. I did it when i had a GF. When we are young, we have all done stupid tings, unless your a dork and your one of thoes kids who drove 35 in a 45. The point is, no matter how old we are, when you start out something your going to have alot to learn. Its sad these kids died, it really is. They died from a stupid mistake.
23 victor, turn right heading 210, maintain 3000 till established, cleared ILS runwy 24.
Goingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 19 Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4303 times:
NWA - it was almost a weekly occurance in Kansas City to read about a carload of teenagers who were killed while "hill jumping". That's where you get going really fast down a road (usually two lane) and becoming airborne as you crest the top of the hill. Trouble is twofold - to get airborne, you've got to be going almost 80 and second - when you're airborne you've got zero control over the car. None. How much brains does it take to understand that when your wheels aren't touching the ground, you can't steer/stop/slow down???
Teens driving more? I doubt that. Your parents most likely drive to and from work every day, as well as the errands that always need to be run. FWIW, I still exceed the speed limit many times, so I'm not a "dork" going 35 in a 45. Neither am I going 55 in a parking lot, as many teens (usually with passengers) are wont to do in my area. And I think to take it a step further - what Avt007 is implying is that teens might be less likely to do "stupid things" when they are by themselves and don't have their friends in the car with them. And even if a teenager doesn't exceed the speed limit, yet exhibits less "dorkiness" by driving 45...45 can be lethal if your eyes and attention are on the conversation in the back seat and not on the car that is stopping in front of you.
ADG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4270 times:
The death toll in the 75 year and above age group is much lower than the teenage death toll so i'm not sure I agree with you. However, Australia has a requirement for the elderly to have yearly (i think it's yearly) checks and tests and medical certificates to retain their drivers licences so I feel that here at least there is no issue with the elderly.
The only real issue I see is the impatience of youth. The elderly drive slower, and you'll end up taking a few minutes longer, live with it. If the guy who was behind me had been a tad more patience he wouldn't be looking at paying the cost of the back end repair to my celica.
I agree the problem with youth accidents is stupidity, but it happens so often that something really needs to be done. I don't agree that we should raise the age to drive as that really would just raise the age of the kids being killed. There must be some way to get through to kids that what they are doing is dangerous. I quite like the no passenger rule but i'm not sure how practical that is.
AAMI (insurance) has a deal where if your parents are insured with them they pay for a 2 day driving course after you've had your P's for 6 months and if you pass that course you lose your P's after 1 year instead of 3 which is good. I'm not sure how effective that is though.
Bit of a dilemma isn't it? Kids don't want lectures from old fogies as kids always know best but they need something, it's just a matter of figuring out what it is. Here we run TV adds that really don't work .. we've tried nice adds and even nasty graphic adds but the whole "it won't happen to me" attitude is alive and well and ruining the lives of many.
Avt007 From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 2131 posts, RR: 5 Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4263 times:
I agree with training and graduated licencing. When I got my motorcycle licence, it was a complete and total joke. In no way did it test my ability to safely ride anywhere outside a parking lot. I did at my own expense, take a proper riding school course, which probably saved my life more than once. Where I live, graduated licencing is in effect, though I don't know the details. However, I would suggest that mandatory driver training courses would be a great idea. Perhaps a basic course first and after a couple of years, a refresher and advanced course. When my kids are old enough to drive, they are not touching a car without a professional driving course.
Gocaps16 From Japan, joined Jan 2000, 4298 posts, RR: 23 Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4262 times:
I agree on better training. I think getting a driver's license should be like getting your private pilot's license. But I know alot of 16 and 17 years old who are great and careful drivers while some, like these teens...stuffing 6 girls in a small boot is illegal. What were these kids thinking. If I were one of them, I wouldn't want to ride with them. As least im not stupid as these kids.
And now look at kids buying HIGH performance and fancy cars. All they want to do is 1) show-off to their friends, oh wow, a Ford Mustang GT and 2) SPEED SPEED SPEED. Man, I wish I had rich folks.
Victech From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 546 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4257 times:
A friend of mine recently bought a '97 red Chevy Camaro...it took him three weeks to cream his front end in an allision with a tree. Why? Excessive speed--it seems that not only is this kid driving a car outside of what I consider to be a sane power-to-weight ratio, but also outside of the of a sane power-to-IQ ratio. Frankly, I think that any parent that approves of that is guilty of at least criminal stupidity (not to mention his insurance--insuring him, thus allowing him to drive this car is criminal, too).
[In the interest of full disclosure, I'm a teen and drive a very nice 1988 Buick Park Ave V6--now that's a sane car for anyone to drive.]
ADG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4245 times:
Hmm.. the idea of limiting car size is a good one, however the accident above and a multitude of others that have occurred recently around here have occured in 1.6-2litre cars which fall well within the "OK" range so i'm unsure of it's usefullness.
I think we need to find a way to convince kids to be careful. Maybe a "drag strip/racetrack" where they can go and drive fast when they want to is an idea. We used to have one here but the govmint closed it down whilst at the same time complaining that the kids are using public streets for their drag racing and burnouts.
They've also introduced a law that allows them to keep the cars of idiots on the road which is an interesting law and i'm not quite sure i'm with or against it, will wait and see.
FrequentFlyKid From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1201 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4187 times:
Raise the driving age? That's not the answer. This country seems to have a feeling of just putting a band-aid over problems instead of goign after the root of the problem. People, teenagers, in this case make mistakes. Sad as it is you can't just take away driving rights. How would you expect teenagers to have jobs, etc. etc.
Drinking age should be eighteen in this country also. Now, before I get the "you're just a teenager" comments, let me justify what I am saying. If you look at drinking related death statistics of teenage/late-20's in this country and other countries there is no comparision. The United States makes underage drinking a problem. Other countries have limits at age 18 and 19 and they don't have a problem because they don't make it one.
Goingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 19 Reply 23, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4149 times:
FFK - great - I'm not famiar with other countries but the US, but is it common in those countries for mom and pop to give junior a new 250-300 hp car for them to go to work or school in? Then they put friends in it and are tempted to "Show them what it can do"...now you want to lower the drinking age so we can mix a few Budweisers in with all that? Sorry, but I'd rather not lose my wife, daughter or life to some drunken kid in a Camaro who was out "making a mistake".