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Stop Overreacting To 9/11  
User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Posted (11 years 4 months 5 days ago) and read 1318 times:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/04/20/nyt.friedman/index.html


Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 47
Reply 1, posted (11 years 4 months 5 days ago) and read 1300 times:

Fascinating.

Although you might want to join me in donning the asbestos suit cuz it's going to get VERY hot in here.

Also, for what it's worth, It is still my opinion that our suport for Israel is only a pretext and not the REAL reason for all of this mess. I believe that, ultimately, after you weed through the rhetoric, it all boils down to two things:


1. Male ego being challenged ("so Bush thinks he's going to push us around eh?")

2. A deeply running hatred and jealousy of our cherished way of life. The Arabs (painting with a very wide brush here) are very nostalgic about their past, and very bitter about their present. yet they absolutely refuse to relinquish their hopelessly outdated and oppressive customs and philosophies. Case in point: if they had their way, the Arab world (or perhaps indeed the United States) would continue to enjoy our wealth and standard of living with two changes: First, we'd ALL bow down 5 times a day towards Mecca and second, all of our women would be veiled and stuck at home.


User currently offlineRadarbeam From Canada, joined Mar 2002, 1310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (11 years 4 months 5 days ago) and read 1278 times:


Flame Suit on!


User currently offline777YYC From Canada, joined May 2000, 744 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (11 years 4 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1204 times:

Friedman is the Times' right wing columnist, oddly enough. If he's saying that, the Bushites should take note.

User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 26
Reply 4, posted (11 years 4 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1192 times:

I think this was an excellent article. Very well written.


NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (11 years 4 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1171 times:

By Thomas L. Friedman
Op-Ed Columnist, New York Times


Op-Ed folks.......anyone know what that means? He uses the word "we" quite a bit, funny, I don't recall him asking me.....

Typical CNN garbage....


User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (11 years 4 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1145 times:

JeffM,

Care to state your opinions? Dont just call it "garbage" if you dont say why you think its "garbage".



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User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 7, posted (11 years 4 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1129 times:

Jeff, "we" can mean anything as long as there are at least 2 people.
Maybe it's him and his wife or more likely him and his scriptwriter.

But your point is moot, as Friedman isn't CNN, he's New York Times. The NYT happens to be a leftwing newspaper.

777, Friedman may be rightwing compared to the rest of the NYT staff, but that doesn't make him right from the center Big grin



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineDelta-flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2676 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (11 years 4 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1073 times:

JeffM....I second Tbar220....if you have an argument with any point that Friedman raised, please, by all means, let us hear it. Calling it garbage only diminishes your credibility.

As for what is an op-ed columnist, it is a person who writes his own independent opinions which may differ from those of the management of the newspaper. This would be opposite to an editorial, which reflects the newspaper's management's views.

Finally, what difference does it make where Friedman stands on a scale of right to left? His column stands on its own. Don't hide behind this liberal/conservative dogma to argue specific issues -- it may be the easy way out, but it lacks credibility.

Pete


User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 4 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1058 times:

God this is going to Kill me, but I have to agree with Matt D and his take.

User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 4 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1045 times:

JeffM, you're one of the blind, hysterical one's he's talking about in that article-the ones who want to change the whole society over 9/11. You want a permanent "seige" mentality, that Bush, Cheney, et al, seem to be shoving down the throats of the American people. You seemingly are one of the people who don't mind that the Department of Justice, under that religious lunatic Ashcroft is chopping away at our freedoms left and right (no pun intended), all in the name of 9/11.

This was one of the best articles I've ever read-it was fair and balance, in a way that Fox News couldn't even begin to fathom.

We've over-compenstated for 9/11, and now, like with the stock market and the corporate scandles, which were also over-compenstated at the beginning, it's time for some sanity to prevail. Sadly, I think the only it will prevail in this country is when Bush and these right-wing fanatics that advise him are sent home.

Great article. Absolutely dead-on in it's observations.


User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 47
Reply 11, posted (11 years 4 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1041 times:

Excellent obs there Alpha1. As I've stated before, even though I am a dyed in the wool Conservative, enough is enough. This "under siege" [I like the way you put that] mentality has gone on for way too long, and I've had it. Clearly it's the only thing that Bush and Co. are using to keep their administration together. I will be joining everyone else in voting against Bush next November.

User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 4 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1036 times:

I'll vote for almost anyone but Bush. If the Dems are stupid enough to have Sharpton, Mosley-Braun or Kucinnich as their nominee (which is slim and none, and slim just left town), then I'll vote for third-party or for no none. But if Kerry or Lieberman or Clark, or anyone else is nominated, they'll get my vote, simple to restore a little sanity at the top.

User currently offlineSchoenorama From Spain, joined Apr 2001, 2440 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (11 years 4 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1007 times:

Matt D:

" 2. A deeply running hatred and jealousy of our cherished way of life. The Arabs (painting with a very wide brush here) are very nostalgic about their past, and very bitter about their present. yet they absolutely refuse to relinquish their hopelessly outdated and oppressive customs and philosophies. Case in point: if they had their way, the Arab world (or perhaps indeed the United States) would continue to enjoy our wealth and standard of living with two changes: "

Although your description above started well describing the problems of the actual Arab world, in the end it makes a very strange twist.

Yes, the Arabs are nostalgic about their past, as many other nationalities also are. Yes, they are very bitter about their present. But the fact that they still have hopelessly outdated and oppresive customs and philosophies has more to do with their situation at present, rather than them being unwilling to relinquish them. This doesn't only happen in the Arab world, it happens in any poor and underdeveloped country. The poorer the people of a country or region are, the more these people stick to the rules of the local religion. And as soon as a country becomes richer and more developed, the less influence religion will have on its people.

"First, we'd ALL bow down 5 times a day towards Mecca and second, all of our women would be veiled and stuck at home."

If you believe the whole Middle East issue is about religion, then you are very misstaken. Religion plays a part, but it is not the reason why most of the Arab world has bad feelings about the Western World, and specially about the US. The Arab world does feel bad about their present as their nations have the world largests oil-reserves the Western World so badly needs, yet the arab people in these countries have noticed very little if any, of the tremendous revenues their oil has generated in the past decades. They believe the Western World is to blame for the fact they they have been ruled for decades by dictators, by multi-billion dollar millonairs, that kept the wealth and power to only a few while the rest of the people still lived like in the Middle Ages.

The only religious factor important in the whole Middle East issue is that of the fundamentalistic (Muslim) organizations, of which there are many in the region. Like I stated above, the poorer the people are (for whatever reason), the more likely it is such fundamentalistic organizations have support of 'their' people. Only a few of these organizations also have political objectives for their country or region, yet this doesn't mean they want the whole world to change to their religion.


Just my thoughts on your statements...



Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (11 years 4 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1006 times:

but I have to agree with Matt D and his take.

Not the first time he's sucked upto Matt D, if you get what I mean.


User currently offline747-451 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2417 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (11 years 4 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 971 times:

Alpha1,

I agree! the Siege Mentality isn't working snce we still have loose borders and no real security, yet we have tons of rhetoric and posturing and nothing more to show than a few more xray machines at the aorport and drinking fountains in the desert (  Insane) ... the article makes some serois valid points.


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