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Danish Pizzeria Owner Charged With Discrimination  
User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2051 times:

This was discussed before. He is finally being charged. Rightly so.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-Denmark-Pizza-Flap.html

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDelta-flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2676 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2010 times:

Even if he loses, the fine is only $735. Maybe he considers that a fair price to pay for expressing his views in the manner that he chose.

Pete


User currently offlinePHX-LJU From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1995 times:

Delta-flyer wrote:

"Maybe he considers that a fair price to pay for expressing his views in the manner that he chose."


So, according to your -- and this man's -- logic, were restaurants in 1930s Germany just "expressing their views" when they banned Jews? What about all the whites-only businesses in pre-Civil Rights South? Or that Thai hotel owner who banned all Americans in protest of the war in Iraq?

Sure, these are very different cases, but the moral is the same: The right to free speech can never be used to justify discrimination against entire groups of innocent people. Since Denmark is a fair and progressive country, I'm confident that this man will be found guilty.

[Edited 2003-04-27 00:57:31]

User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1961 times:

This has zero to do with free-speech. Nothing. This case is about discrimination based on national origin. People were denied service based on their ethnicity.



User currently offlineADG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1956 times:

It's good to see they have done this, however it's a pity some other countries won't learn the lesson.




ADG


User currently offlineDelta-flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2676 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1933 times:

"This has zero to do with free-speech. Nothing. This case is about discrimination"
I agree, and I never said it's a free speech issue. The guy broke the law, knowing the consequences....

"So, according to your -- and this man's -- logic, were restaurants in 1930s Germany just "expressing their views".... "
...and to contunue my thread, the LAW in Germany at the time allowed (even encouraged) the restaurants to do this.

The moral is that when a society revolves around just laws, there are remedies to discrimination, even when you can't totally eradicate discrimination from the hearts of every person.

Pete


User currently offlineJcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 38
Reply 6, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1899 times:

This is private property. He has the right to decide who he wants to serve.


America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16259 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1900 times:

People were denied service based on their ethnicity.

I doubt any French were inconvenienced. I doubt any even darken his door. He was making a political statement.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29799 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1874 times:

I hope this guy wins.

As a business he has the right to limit his clientele if he so chooses,

Any business he loses is coming out of his pocketbook no-one else's.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1874 times:

PHX,

I think what delta-flyer was trying to say is that this guy thinks that he can do this even if it costs him the 700 some odd dollars. He accepts the fine, as long as he can get away with making the statement. Doesn't make it right, but perhaps that's how the dude sees it.



NO URLS in signature
User currently offlinePHX-LJU From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1870 times:

Jcs17 wrote:

"This is private property. He has the right to decide who he wants to serve."

L-188 wrote:

"As a business he has the right to limit his clientele if he so chooses."

I can't believe you guys. If that's what you are saying, can a business in your neighborhood suddenly start banning, say, blacks or Jews, because its owner has "the right to decide who he wants to serve"? Don't be silly, that's simply not how things work in Western societies. According to your logic, should the South just revert to its pre-Civil Rights days? (Because by arguing that private businesses can discriminate, that's essentially what you are saying.)

Yyz717 wrote:

"He was making a political statement."

It's awfully idiotic and uncivilized way to victimize innocent people in order to make a political statement.

Delta-flyer wrote:

"The moral is that when a society revolves around just laws, there are remedies to discrimination, even when you can't totally eradicate discrimination from the hearts of every person."

I'm glad you see it this way. I thought you were trying to justify the man's unjustifiable actions.

[Edited 2003-04-27 12:06:17]

User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29799 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1858 times:

Yeah I did say that.

Of course if you believe that is wrong you also don't support his business either and to publicize the fact that he is doing this. In order for that to be libel, he would have to prove that the info is wrong.

If enough people think it is wrong, he won't have a business for much longer.


I just don't think this is a matter for the courts. The public will take care of that.

Considering the reputation of the netherlands, I would suspect he would have had to change his ways to survive.

[Edited 2003-04-27 12:24:34]


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29799 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1855 times:

Excuse me.


The reputation of the Danes in such matters.

The Danes can hardly and should not be compared to say Alabama circa 1964.

The latter case, much more drastic and obtuse measures where needed.

In this case the soft touch would be better they running, crybaby style to the courts.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineAirways1 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 560 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1855 times:

It's a shame that innocent people are affected by being banned from a restaurant, just because they are from a country who's government is being protested against.

It's a bit like the large-scale US boycotting of French and German goods (eg. wine), because of European opposition to the war. And it's the producers of the goods that suffer, not the governments. (Not that the governments should have to suffer for this view, anyway.)


User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 5999 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1834 times:

L-188,

you obviously haven't seen any of the recent political catfights  Laugh out loud - heck, we even had one secretary of the interior (I think) who mentioned that she'd like all immigrants to be flown to an island in the middle of the Pacific. Of course, no charges were filed against her - but she was forced to step down.

Oh - and we beat the US 5-2 in Ice hockey yesterday  Big thumbs up


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29799 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1825 times:

See, I think you had just illistrated my point.

Was that minister forced out because of a court order and a lawsuit or was it public pressure.

The former is to be avoided, the latter is the way to go.


As far as the hockey team goes, good for them. We are still celebrating the 1980's Olympic finals over here.




OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineEGGD From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 12443 posts, RR: 34
Reply 16, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1819 times:

The sad fact about this is, I bet the restaurant owner probably watched Fox  Laugh out loud

User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1789 times:

Jcs17, L-188, Yyz717,

I think you guys are on the wrong side of this one. Although we may sympathize with pizzeria owner's views on France and Germany, he is clearly in the wrong. He chose to not serve two entire ethnic groups because of their country's views. He did not treat them as individual human beings. Whether that should be legal or not in Denmark is not the real question for me. I think what he did is immoral.

In this country, he would rightfully be charged with discrimination based on national origin. Business owners that open their premises up to serve the public cannot use the private property argument to bar an entire race or ethnic group.

Airways1,

The Germans have conducted a much more organized boycott of US goods than Americans consumers have against their products.


User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1779 times:

N79969,

when, where? I didn't notice any boycott, neither on the news here, nor have I seen any shop in Frankfurt which doesn't sell American products if they sold them before.


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 19, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1772 times:

"The Germans have conducted a much more organized boycott of US goods than Americans consumers have against their products."

I haven't seen any boycotted McDonald's restaurants, Coke bottles, Levi's jeans shops, computer stores etc. either. Where did you hear that?



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1754 times:

I read that in the Economist recently. I will have to get back to you on which issue and the name of the article.

User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1745 times:

This is the article reference, you will have to look in the print edition:

"Don't buy American"

Some anti-war Germans are boycotting American goods
(From The Economist print edition) Apr 12th 2003


User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6451 posts, RR: 54
Reply 22, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1732 times:

Ha-ha-ha, all the guy wanted was some free advertisement in the local press. He got it world wide instead!!!

He will probably have to double or triple the size of his shop.  Big thumbs up



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16259 posts, RR: 56
Reply 23, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1708 times:

N79969....it was clearly just a political statement. There was never any indication that any French people even visited his restaurant. Had one visited, he may have served them.






Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1705 times:

Nonetheless the practical effect of his publicity stunt was an invidious form of discrimination. While I agree with the owner's views on Germany and particularly France, I do not condone his ban on people because of their nationality. It was a publicity stunt gone too far.



25 Yyz717 : I think it was pretty harmless. He did it to generate press & it worked beyond his wildest dreams. If he REALLY wanted to ban French people from his r
26 Ts-ior : This would never happen in a Muslim halal restaurant. Discrimination is something that was invented by the Occident and now you start suffering of ?
27 Post contains images CPH-R : Preben, why do you think he's looking for a bigger place in Esbjerg?
28 Mx5_boy : L-188 & friends: You are such ambassadors to the USA. It's OK to be redneck, right wing, extreme cristian and massive patriot.. However... The rest of
29 Yyz717 : The rest of world goes.. *have a tug* Gosh my other yankee mates ought to send boxes of free magazine tampons to these guys... puke. What does this me
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