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Everyone Wants Equality BUT...  
User currently offlineMxCtrlr From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2485 posts, RR: 35
Posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 859 times:

After reading some of the topics here, I have to make a rather bold statement:

Everyone says they want equal rights, but this country has never been more divided!

Let's see, we have African-Americans, Asian-Americans, Hispanic-Americans (not to be confused with Cuban-Americans) Gay-Americans, Black-Americans (obviously, not the same as "African-Americans") and so on and so on ad nauseum! Oh yeah, we even have a few "Americans" who aren't hyphenated!

Folks, until we drop the differentiations, there will never be equality in this country.

African-Americans in this country want equality but demand Affirmative Action that tips the playing field in their favor? You want equality, deal with me equally - based on merit, not some government-sanctioned quota!

Gay-Americans want equality but constantly separate themselves through Gay Pride Days or Gay Pride Marches. I don't flaunt my heterosexuality in your face, why do you insist on thrusting (pun intended  Smile) your agenda in mine?

Hispanic-Americans and Cuban-Americans (no, they are not one and the same) want equality but insist, if I am to live in South Florida (Miami, specifically) I have to learn Spanish to get a job or enroll my children in Miami-Dade County Public Schools (and yes, I have actually been told that to my face by an official of a County Public School).

While the intent of this post is not to divide, it is to bring to light the fact that equality will never be achieved with separation. By defining one's self as "xxx-American", you automatically create division.

It isn't like this in other countries, so why scream about wanting equality, while at the same time distancing yourself from equal footing as a plain, simple American, by hyphenating your heritage. Save the Indians who lived here originally, we are non of us, true Americans. We are a mixture of races and cultures that have blended together to become one people - Americans. I am a native born American - not an Anglo-American or any other such designation - just plain American and proud of it! Why can't other groups be satisfied with the same and work towards TRUE equality?

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K.  Smokin cool



DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 851 times:

Folks, until we drop the differentiations, there will never be equality in this country.

Boy you said it, brotha......

Until we drop the idea that two rational, law abiding taxpaying adults can't get married, adopt kids or serve their country based on the fact that they they aren't a 'one inny one outty' couple, there will never be equality in this country.

Until a nicely dressed man in an expensive car isn't followed around or even pulled over by a cop in a "well to do" suburb based solely on the pigmentation of his skin, there will never be equality in this country.

Until we stop looking at an Arab and think 'Osama'.....and not 'Muhammed' (The young Iraqi who risked his life and his family to walk into the line of US Marine fire to tell them one of their soldiers was being held at the hospital in his town), there will never be equality in this country.

Until merely undertaking the act of pondering why there's not equality in this country stops being scoffed at as being "politically correct"...there won't be equality in this country.

Mx, your heart's in the right place, but it sounds more like a "get with the program and be like us" demand than a true understanding of how equality is a give and take. Until 'equality' is simply a no-brainer part of the cultural fabric of these United States, it will always be that uneasy contract from those who want and those who want..to talk about something else.


User currently offlineMxCtrlr From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2485 posts, RR: 35
Reply 2, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 842 times:

Mx, your heart's in the right place, but it sounds more like a "get with the program and be like us" demand than a true understanding of how equality is a give and take.

This wasn't meant to be, as you said above, a "get with the program and be like us" deal. It was meant to illustrate the point that this country is far from equality, and getting further everyday, through PC terms like "African-American", "Asian-American" and the like. Political Correctness in this country has gotten way out of hand. We have "Spokespersons" now. Deal with it ladies - you are "Congresswomen" or "Spokeswomen"! There is no shame in that! There is no ulterior motive in that!

As long as we perpetuate these definitions, we remain a racially, culturally and sexually divided society!

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K.  Smokin cool



DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 829 times:

Question?

Why did you go right to "African-American" and "Asian-American" as examples of "PC" , and not "Italian-American" .....a group that's been calling itself that since right after World War II?

And what you call "Politically Correct", I just simply call "good manners". If some broad in a suit wants to be referred to as a "Spokesperson" and NOT a "Spokeswoman".....am I gonna lose an inch off the ol' schlongolowitz just by accomodating that request? Hardly. (no pun intended)

You zoom in on some part of your world that you feel is making unfair demands of your goodwill, yet ignore the fact that everyday in our culture....from South Park to Chris Rock to half the Fox prime time lineup....there are GLOWING examples that calling races, creeds and colors whatever you damn well please is still alive & well.

It's all perception, my friend. A white boy rapper from 8 Mile in Detroit can call his black friends "niggaz". You try it!  Love Does that displease you? I doubt it. Then why do all the "blank-hyphen-blanks" get your gourd?


User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 822 times:

In theory, the elimination of these labels is a great idea, and is needed for total equality. The thing is, these labels are needed for defining people as well. More so is the fact that such groups actually use or prefer to use these labels. And on top of that, these labels will exist until our society as a whole is ready to accept the fact black is no different that white. Straight is no different than gay, etc, etc, etc. We all live, we all die. We all breathe, eat, shit, etc. If we bleed, we all bleed the same color blood. Its a sad state we are in, because for as advanced as a civilization we have become, for the knowledge we have now, the things we are capable of, something as simple as accepting people no matter their race, nationality, sexual preference etc just can't seem to be achieved. Only a few of us get it, and we in small numbers are no match for ignorance.

User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 813 times:

Only a few of us get it, and we in small numbers are no match for ignorance.

Ohhhhh, I dunno.....

My blood can boil at the step backward we take when thick heads like Ricky Santorum just refuse to 'get it' with people like me....and I can steam up a bit when I see the 'prominence' heaped upon such an utter troll like Al Sharpton, who feeds on division just as surely as the Grand Poobah down at the local Klannery.

But they're the bad news. The good news is what we are is so far beyond what we were. A very highly paid black gentleman good heartedly wandering over to help the scared white girl finish the Star Spangled Banner. And how many watching were concerned about hyphens? Or pigmentation? Exactly.

Progress, when nurtured, has a way of creeping up on you & settling in.


User currently offlineMxCtrlr From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2485 posts, RR: 35
Reply 6, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 806 times:

Why did you go right to "African-American" and "Asian-American" as examples of "PC" , and not "Italian-American" .....a group that's been calling itself that since right after World War II?

I didn't "zoom in" on one specific group. Italian-American, Greek-American, African-American, Cuban-American, it doesn't matter - its all the same separation whilst demanding equality. The two become an oxymoron just like "Military Intelligence" and "Bad Blowjob"!

You zoom in on some part of your world that you feel is making unfair demands of your goodwill, yet ignore the fact that everyday in our culture....from South Park to Chris Rock to half the Fox prime time lineup....there are GLOWING examples that calling races, creeds and colors whatever you damn well please is still alive & well.

It's all perception, my friend. A white boy rapper from 8 Mile in Detroit can call his black friends "niggaz". You try it! Does that displease you? I doubt it.


This is exactly my point and yes, the ability and acceptance of a "white-boy rapper", or any person, calling his black "friends" "niggaz" is offensive to me and should to to anyone who demands and values equality! As to the shows on TV these days (especially on Fox and WB), they also perpetuate the black sterotype but blacks flock to those shows. It doesn't make sense to demand equality on one hand and defend stereotypical presentations of black life on the other hand. That is the point. Why demand equality and then separate yourself?

As to Political Correctness, that, left unchecked, will be the downfall of a nation (OK, maybe a bit overdramatic). We are so afraid that we might step on someone's toes that our message gets lost in the process. A sad state of affairs!

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K.  Smokin cool



DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (11 years 3 months 1 week ago) and read 801 times:

"I am a native born American - not an Anglo-American or any other such designation - just plain American and proud of it! Why can't other groups be satisfied with the same and work towards TRUE equality?"

That's because, hon, the normative in this country has always been the "White Anglo-Saxon Protestant Heterosexual Male striding upon Plymouth Rock." So, if thats what you are, then the description of "American" sans qualifiers attaches to you virtually automatically. The rest of us have to tell the job interviewer, the security screener at the airport, the dude on the street, the little old lady at the Post Office, that we're just as Apple-Pie and Mom as you are (assuming that the Cleavers are the normative). See, its the normative that defines the "non-normative." Its not the other way around. I think you need to go tell the normative to stop referring to "other" Americans as that Asian girl, or that black dude, or that Hispanic guy, or whatever, and then we can truly have "equality."

On the other hand, lets face it - we are a nation of different races, ethnicities, persuasions. Why should we all be the same, act the same, think the same? Just be comfortable with who you are.


User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (11 years 3 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 792 times:

While I think the labels are dubious, I don't think they stand in the way of equal protection (assuming that's what you mean by 'equality'). People can be different and treated equally at the same time. It's the job of the establishment to look past the labels whether they're there or not. The reason being is people will NEVER be equal to each other. They can only be treated equally. And I'm not talking about groups, but individuals. Two bi-sexual Korean-American handicap midgets are probably NOT equal to each other in any way EXCEPT for their label.


"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13519 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (11 years 3 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 784 times:
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I think MxCtrlr has hit the nail on the head.

But allow me to take this a step further; is it possible that much of this stems from the "You're Special" training parents gave their kids for the past 30 to 40 years?

Permit me to explain. Over the past 40 or so years, parents have been more permissive and more accomodating with their kids than previous generations. The "spare the rod and spoil the child" mentality was considered obsolete, and parents wanted to enhance their child's self-esteem by constantly reminding them of how unique and special they are.

End result? In many cases, these "I'm special; my mommy told me so!" kids turn out to be spoiled brats who think they're better than others.

Unfortunately, most of these spoiled kids have now grown up to be spoiled adults with a sense of entitlement and superiority. The need to be seen as "special" has permeated society, to where ethnic and socioeconomic groups have begun "segregating" themselves from other portions of society through titles like "Italian-American," "Asian-American," and yes, even "African-American."

Of course, the people who began floating these titles had nothing but good intentions...but again, the road to hell is paved with them.

Look on things such as the Congressional Black Caucus. While on the surface it seems perfectly fine to have exclusive groups like this, it can also be seen as exclusionary, fostering a sense of discrimination based on race, or as with other groups, religion, sexuality, etc. Imagine the uproar if there were to be such a thing as a Congressional White Caucus! It's as if some (and I stress the word "some" here) groups are really saying:

"How DARE you try to segregate us! Let US do that ourselves."

This country will be far better off if people stop trying to be "special" and identifying themselves based on their differences.

It's time for everyone to start identifying themselves based on their similarities.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineClipperhawaii From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2033 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (11 years 3 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 770 times:

The only label I want is that of "American". Be proud of your heritage and let others enjoy your culture as well.
Lifestyle is a choice, and as far as I can tell you are free to choose whichever lifestyle you may want. But be prepared, others may not like the fact you live in a gated community, live in a bus, wear all red, or choose a particular sexual lifestyle. But the fact remains you have the choice and some will always be intolerant of you. This will unfortunately always be the case.




"You Can't Beat The Experience"
User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (11 years 3 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 765 times:

But the fact remains you have the choice and some will always be intolerant of you. This will unfortunately always be the case.

Do you honestly think I choose to be gay, chief? Answer please.



User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 3 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 757 times:

Waiting.......................

User currently offlineMxCtrlr From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2485 posts, RR: 35
Reply 13, posted (11 years 3 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 754 times:

Taking EA CO AS' argument one step further...

What if we established the United Caucasian College Fund, because "Affirmative Action has allowed 'minds to go to waste'"? Would that be socially acceptable? Of course not! The Jesse Jackson's and Al Sharpton's and Louis Farrakan's of this country would be screaming about racial discrimination. Can I, as a caucasian male, get a scholership through the United Negro College Fund? Of course not! At the same time though, people scream for racial equality and create barriers, like this example, to that same equality. I'm not saying the United Negro College Fund is a bad idea but, let's make it the United College Fund, without catering to any one specific group. THAT is equality!

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K.  Smokin cool



DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (11 years 3 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 751 times:

Why did you go right to "African-American" and "Asian-American" as examples of "PC" , and not "Italian-American" .....a group that's been calling itself that since right after World War II?

I guess it's because at that time, most Italian Americans were actually FROM Italy, or were one generation removed from relatives in Italy.

I really despise this "African American" PC term - Most have never been to Africa, much less been born there. There's an awful lot of black folks living in the Caribbean islands - yet you don't see them being referred to as "African-Jamaicans, or African-Bermudans". Martin Luther King had a dream that a person wouldn't be judged by the color of their skin, and that we'd all live together as a nation of "Americans", but this "Africanizing" of the American Negro goes totally against what Dr. King had drempt. Not to be left out, any "person of color" can now have the country du jour preceding the "American" label... Hispanic American, Asian American, Native American. All us average white guys in America get to be called is "racist".


User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (11 years 3 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 749 times:

(sigh) Waiting..............

User currently offlineMxCtrlr From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2485 posts, RR: 35
Reply 16, posted (11 years 3 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 738 times:

Well Heavy,

I'll put in my two cents worth on that question...

Life is nothing but choices - where we live, who we marry (and what sexual orientation therein), whether we are successful or not - all are choices we make on a daily basis - either conscious or unconscious. No one sets out saying they choose to be a failure, but they make that choices through other choices - grades in school, dropping out of school, not applying themselves in a job, etc. If someone has a dream and allows people to ridicule, belittle and berate that dream and they give up, they failed themselves. Many of the businesses, concepts and ideals in this country have been made into successes because the people who had the dream to begin with refused to give up.

This is going to skew off-topic a bit but, it illustrates the point I'm making...Southwest Airlines is a prime example of this point. In 1972, when Herb Kelleher, Howard Putnam and Lamar Muse decided to start Southwest, they were ridiculed by the airline industry pundits. No one gave them 6 months in business. Now, they are one of a small handful of carriers that is profitable during the deepest economic downturn the industry has ever seen. Point is - they had a dream and refused to budge from it, no matter what someone else told them. They made a choice, conscious or unconscious, to be a success. EVERYTHING in this life, is a choice!

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K.  Smokin cool



DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (11 years 3 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 734 times:

One correction there MxCtrlr - one of the Southwest founders was Rollin King, not Howard Putnam. Putnam came on board in the late 70's, but he was hired away from United.

User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (11 years 3 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 732 times:

" . . . to be such a thing as a Congressional White Caucus!"

There is. Its called the Republican controlled Congress


User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 16
Reply 19, posted (11 years 3 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 728 times:

Okie dokie then....let's forget about Congress. Would there be any problem if a group of white businessmen organized the "White Chamber of Commerce"?

User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (11 years 3 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 725 times:

All righty then!

Well, first of all, thanks Mx for giving it a valiant effort....althought you already fell through the planks on the first line...Life is nothing but choices - where we live, who we marry Remember, this big cuddly unified society you dream of tells me I can't marry. Not in a way recognized by tax collectors or emergency room doctors anyway. And with nothing but the utmost respect to your opinion, sexual orientation and Herb Kelleher are on two different planets (Just the way Herb wants it I'm sure!). Comparing an epic business decision to a conscious assessment of who you're gonna cuddle with the rest of your life is a bit of a stretch. I would close the thought by asking you if you can remember the time and date you chose to like women.....50/50, innys or outties? I pick innies. Of we go.

You didn't , did you? At some point in time, probably in junior high but maybe younger, your eyeballs were no longer the only body part stimulated by the sight and presence of a female type girl person of the opposite sex.

But Clipper's 'deal with it' assertion that there will always be intolerance, and his insistence (obviously undetailed or clarified) that my 'lifestyle' is something I "chose" illustrates perfectly what I tried to say in the earlier post.

It is very, VERY easy to sit back and berate those different from you for continually insisting they're different from you. Negro College Funds. Black Caucus. Yet I call that continued beratement minus an attempt at examining WHY the difference exists sheer mental laziness, bordering on arrogant.

Perhaps...just perhaps...there's a United Negro College Fund because 98 percent of the inner city Florida high school is "Negro"...(African-American...and if you choose to ignore why the change, you're making my point AGAIN). And perhaps that College Fund is the only one that gives a damn that that inner city high school is staffed by marginally qualified teachers, backed by a local property tax budget that can barely afford the electric bills to keep the place air conditioned in the Florida heat, let alone all the latest up to date textbooks. And perhaps that Fund recognizes that inside that school....or, more specifically, inside one of the dozen shabby, hot, ugly "portable classrooms" erected because there's still no state funding to build a swanky new high school like the burbs are getting, there's one kid who, despite all the odds, is going to be amazing. Doctor, lawyer, jet pilot, Secretary of State. And that Fund says, you know what? We could fund the educations of the best and brightest from the city, the burbs, the farmlands.....but we're going to Fund that kid. We choose...ha! that word again... to comb the black neighborhoods and the shabby schools for those few amazing learners who one day will be amazing teachers to humanity.

You speak of a perfectly level, hyphen-less playing field. But do you wanna take the time and effort, yourself, to understand why that kid in that trailer isn't playing on one? Or are you just gonna tell her to 'deal with it'?.....law of Nature, sweetie. Only the strong survive.

Likewise, are you (unlike Clipper) going to bother to learn my point of view about why I'm a "gay" American....or just say, you know what, why aren't we all just one big unified entity. Why do you insist on being different, then cry you're unequal? And I say "Yeah but...." And you say 'deal with it'...and I say "But..." And you smile and insist I should 'deal with it'.

So you see, your answer to this whole quandry is you.

When you're fighting terrorists aboard an airplane over Pennsylvania, you're not gonna ask if the guy next to you is 'blank-hypen-American'. When you beat the terrorists and land the plane, you still won't care. When that guy goes home and talks about how great America is, you won't care. But when he says, 'By the way, I'd really think it'd be kinda cool if I could......marry....adopt.....keep my job.....serve my country...."

That's when you kick in with "Uhhhh boy." And that's when the unity shatters.


User currently offlineClipperhawaii From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2033 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (11 years 3 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 719 times:

Frankly, whichever way you want to live your life is of no consequence to me. It's your choice not mine. Be happy with it. Which is the point of MY post.

Having your cake and eating it too, does not happen too often. I doubt if it will ever happen for you heavy. For you and others, that will be sad. Don't let it ruin your life. Make the best of it.

There will always be someone out there that will not like you for what ever the reason. Frankly, who cares what they think?

Be you, not the ball (Is that a golf term?)






"You Can't Beat The Experience"
User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (11 years 3 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 711 times:

Thanks for your (yawn) 'sympathy'..chief. Doin just fine, thanks.

The only thing sad is how happily some people with their ignorance.


User currently offlineClipperhawaii From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2033 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (11 years 3 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 706 times:

Sorry you feel that way. With prevailing attitudes like yours, you expect people to show compassion, concern, equality? I wish there was more of all that. I guess you typify what we all need, and that's a little more patience and understanding of people, and not be so ready and quick handed to ridicule others. Thanks for unfortunately confirming why equality is so hard to attain.

Good Luck. We all need it! Some more than others




"You Can't Beat The Experience"
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13519 posts, RR: 62
Reply 24, posted (11 years 3 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 693 times:
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It is very, VERY easy to sit back and berate those different from you for continually insisting they're different from you. Negro College Funds. Black Caucus.

But in these cases, it's the people who created or belong to these groups who insist on separating themselves based on these differences. Again, they're voluntarily and intentionally pointing out, "Hey, look at me! I'm different than you!"

I don't berate people for being different. I berate people for embracing the difference only when it suits them, and using it to claim they're disadvantaged when it suits them.

Be different, fine...but don't make a concerted effort to point out those differences.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
25 Seb146 : Two things that have bothered me: 1) Why does everyone take offence to racial slurs against Hispanics, Asians, and Africans but I seem to be the only
26 Heavymetal : It's a fine lecture, Clip...you still haven't answered my earlier question. I've got all the patience in the world to explain, exhort, enlighten....be
27 EA CO AS : We have one day a year to celebrate who we are and the fact that we can be who we are, then the heteros talk about 'we don't flaunt our heterosexualit
28 Seb146 : CO: I still have trouble with hetero men talking down to me when they find out I am gay. I still worry every day I will be beaten down or worse for wh
29 Travelin man : For the most part, heterosexuals don't give a damn either way about your sexuality. You live your life, and let me live mine. Good. Then how about let
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