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Argentina's Shame: Menem Gains Majority Vote  
User currently offlineDoorsToManual From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1094 times:

Sadly, this is terrible news for Argentina. We have elections right now for choosing the next president, extremely important if you can imagine.

The country is desperately poor, like never before. There is no money, the country is bankrupt and has lost the trust of IMF and World Bank, so its very difficult to borrow money just to pay interest on the massive debts.

Government and politicians have lost legitimacy - an extremely worrying situation.

The worst: Mr. Menem, who was previous president of Argentina, and whose corrupt and economically flawed policies is the front-runner!!!! I just cannot believe the people of my country could do this!!! This guy is EVIL and has stolen all the money from the mass privitisation of the country's industries.

Also:
Selling arms illegally, and thus fuelling tensions in Ecuador and Croatia.
Iranian government organized bombing of a Jewish community building in Buenos Aires: many people killed. He accepted money from Iranian government to cover up the investigation; yet, no one has been arrested for this atrocity.

Also, he is accused of allowing drug barons to land drug planes on Argentine soil, in return for big amounts of $$$.

The tragedy is that people have voted him to become president. There is a run-off now between him and the other contender, Kirchner. I sincerely hope at the second chance, people will rise against the evil Menem, who destroyed our country. Yes, harsh words, but this is the truth. He is a criminal who only wants power, like the African dictators.........a very sad result. Let's hope it is like in France, where the fascist Le Pen was voted out at the second go, otherwise Argentina is doomed for another 4 years or more............


12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1074 times:

Argentina's Hope: People Like You

User currently offlineMarcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1798 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1059 times:

If you look at the numbers.....during his two presidential terms (correct me if I'm wrong) the economy was doing very well, and it reached unprecented goals in recent history..........of course as we have all seen it was the average Argentinians who payed the bill after the party was over.

But is because of the good times that some people still support him (right now more than any other candidate).......but they fail to see how those flawed economic policies created the mess in the first place.

We had the same situation here in Mexico in the mid 90's.........during that time everybody was longing for the economic conditions of the late 80's and early 90's.......but people did not remember (or understand) that everything has a price and that we payed the price for the flawed economic boom of previous years.

Best of luck to you and your contry.......all I can say is "been there.....done that" and you country will come out of this slump stronger than before....just wait and see.




Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
User currently offlineDoorsToManual From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1042 times:

Thank you for your comments of support.

Yes, it was the "great illusion" as some of us say (that Menem created). Times were good, people could afford food, and luxuries such as foreign cars, washing machines and houses. Our local currency was artificially pegged to the same value as the dollar, so 1 peso = 1 $. It was great for Argentines, boom times, but it was a flawed policy and a TOTAL ILLUSION which was not going to be sustainable. Unfortunately, it seems some of my countrymen do not realise the trap they are falling into by electing that thief, Menem. Highly highly frustrating for me and many others.

Argentina's people are highly educated - literacy levels are the highest in Latin America, access to water is good, and people are keenly aware of politics. We have some of the continent's most fertile soils, yet people are dying of hunger! Argentina's problems are down to political history - at one time, we were with the United States, one of the richest countries in the WORLD. Now look....we are broke and have no food. Argentina, once one of the finest and most cosmopolitan countries in latin america....bleeding


User currently offlineIl75 From Argentina, joined May 2001, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1035 times:

Look at the bright side of life!

Last time he run for president he won with about 50% of the votes. This time he got just half of it.

The Argentinian people is getting wiser.

regards
erico


User currently offlineDoorsToManual From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1023 times:

Hi ll75,

Yep, true, there was not much good choice really eh? I had a better feeling about Murphy, but I guess you never know until they get into power what they will REALLY do. We should not have chased the British out of Argentina 197 years ago.......


User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1033 times:

An Argentinan friend of mine showed me pictures from Menem´s home village in
Syria, they where really proud that he was president in Argentina.


User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1003 times:

Opinion of the Los Angeles Times

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-ed-argentina30apr30,1,5913320.story?coll=la%2Dheadlines%2Doped%2Dmanual

Argentina stands with one foot on the edge of salvation. The other is stuck on the muddy path that leads deeper into a political and economic Hades.

The South American nation plunged down that trail 16 months ago. Enraged by the government's continued belt-tightening and its decision to limit the amount that people could take from their bank accounts, tens of thousands of poor and middle-class Argentines ransacked stores, broke bank windows and attacked government buildings. Five people were killed, hundreds were injured and thousands were arrested while five presidents took turns at the helm of government. All this occurred in a matter of two weeks.

On Sunday, Argentines went to the polls and sorted out a ballot of five candidates. Next month, two men from the same Peronist party, Patagonian Gov. Nestor Kirchner and former President Carlos Menem, will face each other in a runoff. Menem simply can't offer the accountability, transparency and credibility that Argentina needs and foreign banking concerns will demand.

Menem's supporters note that during his first term, the economy grew an average of 4.4% annually. True. But debt rose more than 12 percentage points. Menem, one Argentine historian says, "is the man who invited everyone to the party, lived it up and then left without picking the tab."

During his two terms (1989-99), corruption ran rampant. U.S. telephone companies complained that they had to pay $100 million in bribes to take control of a company they bought. In 2001, Menem was arrested for alleged involvement in illegal arms sales to Ecuador and Croatia. A court packed with his appointees released him, but within the year Swiss and Argentine authorities were investigating an allegation that Menem had received a $10-million bribe to cover up a 1994 anti-Semitic terrorist bombing in Buenos Aires.

Kirschner, who is less well known abroad, lacks Menem's notoriety and that alone makes him the better candidate. Having Economy Minister Roberto Lavagna on his team adds credibility.

Outgoing President Eduardo Duhalde has done a decent job in trying to stabilize the economy. Tax collections are up, the Argentine peso is gaining strength and the government's economic team is meeting the fiscal goals set out in January's agreement with the International Monetary Fund. Industrial production keeps growing (the fifth month in a row), and the economy is showing moderate signs of recovery.

Yet, the future seems far from bright. Progress in reducing poverty has stopped and income inequality is deepening. The banking system is in disarray and will have to be reinvented. Renegotiating the nation's defaulted debt, estimated at $132 billion — almost half of it held by retail investors abroad — will be extremely difficult. So will be completing and signing a new package with the International Monetary Fund before the end of August.

Argentina needs to return to a free-market economy that will sustain its struggling economic recovery. Reelecting a discredited candidate would only send the nation sliding back to the unpleasant past.




User currently offlineMarcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1798 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 999 times:

We should not have chased the British out of Argentina 197 years ago.......
***************

Hmmmm care to elaborate on that?



Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4304 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 995 times:

Ok. Let's get back to reality here.

First of all, to all those Menem defenders, my little cousin could have gotten the same results he got in his FIRST term with a guy like Cavallo as economy minister. He is a very good economist all in all, he just simply disgraced himself trying to defend his unsustainable 1 to 1 parity, which worked for a long while, but had to be let go and wasn't.

Second, regarding the comment on the brits, I assume DoorsToManual was mentioning the two miserably failed British attempts at taking Buenos Aires in 1806 and 1807, which were promply repelled by the local militia that was forming to boot out the Spanish (and did in 1810).

I don't know if Doors is british or argentine-british (maybe), but I'll give him this much. The british did have the richest empire going at the time, so it would have been beneficial from a financial standpoint to be invaded for a while, get rich in the process and then kick them out (like the US and Australia did). Of course, and thankfully, not economic considerations but rather national pride prevailed and we are not endebted to the brits historically in any way. And we still became a very rich country, were until recently, and will be again. To those sensationalist argentines out there (lots of them), let me remind you that all the rich countries in Europe and the USA suffered themselves from very long economic hardships at some points in their history, with high unemployment, streetpeople, protests and the like. Why should we be any different.

One more quick points no one will ever tell you. Unlike the USA for example who had significant aid from France and Spain in their independence war, Argentina had none at all. The country incurred to heavy debt to pay the troops to wage the battles across the country during the independence fight. Furthermore, Argentina then payed the costs of liberating Paraguay in 1811, and then Chile and Peru (1816 and 1817), a VERY expensive project of crossing the Andes Mountains. It then significantly spent money to support the movements in northern south America and especially in Central America. (which is why the argentine flag colors are the most 'imitated' in Latin American flags). Finally, Argentina helped the Uruguayan exciles with funding and then Argentina sent them and it's own troops to liberate Uruguay from the invading Brazilians in the Cisplatine War, which ended in Uruguay's independence.

I know that is a boring history lesson but a lot of the 'debt' now burdened comes from that original fact. And also from the fact that most of the private sector debt was 'nationalized' (that is, turned into public debt), in a couple of occasions.

[Edited 2003-04-30 19:37:52]


My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlineDoorsToManual From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 978 times:

Hi Derico

Well, I am Argentine. I don't count myself as a hard-core nationalist though; at the same time, I would not describe myself as "sensationalist" either.

The reference to the British invasion was more for effect, than an actual wish to have seen Argentina under British rule (although let's be honest, it would have been a lot better - sorry, that's my genuine opinion, which you may not like, but I like to be a realist instead of a blind nationalist).

I don't believe we would have been indebted to the Brits in any case - but we may have had preferential trade terms, which would have been much more useful - look at Canada, Australia, NZ....and of course, less money-grabbing criminals like Menem.

Sorry, but Argentina's problems stem from CORRUPTION and a FEUDAL economy, in which Argentina's rich land was divided up not amongst all equals, as in the US, but a rich minority elite which has hijacked Argentine politics ever since.....

As for "national pride". Yes, look where that left us......that's one of the reasons I hate nationalism.



User currently offlineDoorsToManual From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 971 times:

p.s. derico, no offence meant to you personally, those are just views that I have, and I feel strongly about. I read it a second time and it looked as if it was directed at you personally, so I wanted to add this so that you wouldn't take it personally.

User currently offlineIl75 From Argentina, joined May 2001, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (11 years 4 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 962 times:

Well ... that was an interesting view on British colonialism.
No doubt that thinking of USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand can be tempting.
But do not forget there are a number of countries in Africa and Asia where your ideas would raise some doubt.

Regards
Erico


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