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Iraqis Say U.S. Troops Fired On Civilians  
User currently offlineAirplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (11 years 5 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1141 times:

This story is a stark contrast to the original reports of Iraqis welcoming thier "liberators". Is this an indication of things to come?

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/29/sprj.irq.main/index.html

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineIllini_152 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1000 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (11 years 5 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1122 times:

I saw it too, care to mention the WHOLE article first? That the soldiers claimed to be under fire at the time and acted in self defense?

And, FWIW, how do we know that these were legitimate "civilains" displaying their displeasure with the evil Americans, and not escaped Saddam loyalists trying to stir up trouble?

How about we wait until the whole story comes in before we rush to judgement.

--
Mike



Happy contrails - I support B747Skipper and Jetguy
User currently offlineClipperhawaii From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2033 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (11 years 5 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1118 times:

Yes quite stark. Welcomed with flowers and smiles or a gang of toughs with a well aimed AK-47. Shoot first and ask questions later. That's good policy when a gun is aimed at you. For most law enforcment agencies as well as the military.

Now that's stark! It's also called reality in Iraq.





"You Can't Beat The Experience"
User currently offlineAirplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 5 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1107 times:

I saw it too, care to mention the WHOLE article first? That the soldiers claimed to be under fire at the time and acted in self defense?


I supplied a link to the article. Feel free to read the whol thing. I also made a "statement" that this is a stark contrast. It is. I made no judgement on the actions of either side....so what's the problem?



User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13218 posts, RR: 77
Reply 4, posted (11 years 5 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1094 times:

BBC news had an in depth report, from both sides, interviews with Iraqis claiming an unprovoked attack, US troops recalling what they said happened, 3 rifles were displayed by them.
Too early to say of course. It was in an area said not be well disposed to the USA, a programme about Basra, a far more 'Coalition friendly' place, had British troops on patrol, very much like Northern Ireland. The parallel was obvious and stark.
They still get in firefights too.
Not a good sign, Iraq is a complex place, with factions positioning for power in a vacuum.
It was always going to be this way.


User currently offlineADG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 5 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1081 times:

GDB,

I see you write

"Iraqis claiming"
"US Troops recalling"

then you say it's to early to say.

Seems to me you have made your decision.





ADG


User currently offlineSKYSERVICE_330 From Canada, joined Sep 2000, 1419 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (11 years 5 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1061 times:

Clipperhawaii wrote:

"Now that's stark! It's also called reality in Iraq."


Have you ever been to Iraq?


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13218 posts, RR: 77
Reply 7, posted (11 years 5 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1022 times:

Not at all ADG, just reporting what I saw on the news, it was the lead story.


User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 23
Reply 8, posted (11 years 5 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1029 times:

Note to all U.S. troops in Iraq: Do not shoot civilians even if they are shooting at you with an AK. You might make the liberals mad in the U.S. and Europe mad.


"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offlineAirplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 5 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1017 times:

If an Iraqi was in the US and he shot an American citizen in self defense, I wonder what the headlines would read?

User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8124 posts, RR: 54
Reply 10, posted (11 years 5 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1012 times:

1. The school the Americans were in / on top of, has no bullet holes in it. On the other hand, the building opposite the school has plenty of bullet holes in it. The Americans may claim to have been fired upon, and indeed they may have been, but there is no sign of it.

2. Of course Americans (and Brits) WILL get shot at, they have invaded a foreign country. What do they expect, Iraq to welcome them?! Cos they're American or something? Come on.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineMarcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1799 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (11 years 5 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1009 times:

Just in case someone is keeping count..................

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030430/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_shooting_61

Two More Protesters Killed in Iraqi Town

By CHARLES J. HANLEY, AP Special Correspondent

FALLUJAH, Iraq - U.S. troops opened fire on anti-American demonstrators for the second time this week as Iraqis marched Wednesday to protest the previous shooting. The city's mayor said two people were killed and 14 wounded in the clash.


U.S. Central Command said soldiers in a convoy passing the demonstrators were shot at, and then returned fire. But city officials who witnessed the incident said they saw or heard no shooting from among the protesters.

There was no immediate indication of American casualties.

The gunfire came less than 48 hours after a shooting during a demonstration Monday night that hospital officials said killed 13 Iraqis.

The clashes in Fallujah, a conservative Sunni Muslim city and Baath Party stronghold 30 miles west of Baghdad, reflect the area's increasing tensions as American troops try to keep the peace in Iraq (news - web sites).

About 1,000 residents marching down Fallujah's main street stopped Wednesday in front of a battalion headquarters of the U.S. Army's 82nd Airborne Division, in a compound formerly occupied by Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s Baath Party. The demonstrators carried signs condemning Monday night's shooting.

This was no peaceful demonstration, the Americans insisted. They said protesters threw rocks and shoes; Maj. Michael Marti, an intelligence officer for the division's 2nd Brigade, said a vehicle window was broken by what was believed to be automatic weapons fire.

Lt. Col. Tobin Green, commander of the 2nd squadron of the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment, which is taking over from the 82nd Airborne in Fallujah, said a six-vehicle convoy was shot at and responded with gunfire.

"The evildoers are deliberately placing at risk the good civilians. These are deliberate actions by the enemy to use the population as cover," said Green.

U.S. Central Command in Doha, Qatar, said American forces fired in response to rock-throwing and weapons fire.

"The convoy returned fire, and the crowd was dispersed by the arrival of coalition helicopters," said Capt. Stewart Upton, a Central Command spokesman.

Fallujah Mayor Taha Bedaiwi al-Alwani said two people were killed and 14 wounded and asked for an investigation and compensation for victims.

After a meeting Wednesday with U.S. troops, the mayor said U.S. soldiers have been asked to stay away from mosques, residential areas and other sensitive places. The Americans agreed to study the request.

"Many people believe these are occupying forces. And many of them are still cautious until they see their intentions," said al-Alwani, a former Iraqi exile and opponent of the previous regime.

U.S. Apache attack helicopters circled the site throughout the march and for hours afterward, barely skimming the tops of the tiled-roof minarets of Fallujah, known as "the city of mosques."

U.S. officers met with the mayor and leading area sheiks in hopes of reducing the tensions, while several dozen demonstrators clustered angrily outside the town hall.

"Get out, get out!" one protester shouted at soldiers guarding the meeting.




"We will keep this up, we will keep them on edge," said another protester, 29-year-old Abdul Adim Mohammed Hussein.

Emerging from the meeting, the imam of the Grand Fallujah Mosque, Jamal Shaqir Mahmood, said "The Americans said 'we won't reduce the numbers, they're needed for security.' But the people of Fallujah told them we already have security."

During Saddam's rule, Fallujah was a stronghold of the ruling Baath Party, in part because of the presence of key chemical and other factories of the regime's military-industrial complex that provided jobs to workers and generated wealth to local businessmen.

Fallujah sent many of its young men to elite regime units such as the Republican Guard and Special Republican Guard, and the fall of Saddam threatens the city's network of privilege and power.

The American forces have given no indication they might cut back their presence here. However, U.S. forces did leave their station at the school where Monday's shooting took place.

From the back of a pickup truck, Jamal addressed a crowd of 250 people Wednesday.

"We demand the Americans leave this place," Jamal said. "(But) please don't confront the U.S. troops."

As they did after Wednesday's incident, Americans and Iraqis have given sharply differing accounts of Monday night's shooting. Paratroopers from the 82nd Airborne said they opened fire only upon armed men — about 25 infiltrators among a crowd of 200. Protesters insisted their demonstration was unarmed and peaceful.

Dr. Ahmed Ghandim al-Ali, director of Fallujah's general hospital, said the clash Monday killed 13 Iraqis — including three young boys — and injured about 75. Some residents put the death toll higher, at 15.

No Americans were injured.



Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8124 posts, RR: 54
Reply 12, posted (11 years 5 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1005 times:

It's going wrong already. Iraqi demonstrators are 'evil-doers' and 'the enemy': "The evildoers are deliberately placing at risk the good civilians. These are deliberate actions by the enemy to use the population as cover," said Green.

And all this because the protestors were throwing rocks and SHOES? How soft are the US forces? Blimey. This is a very poor show, and the US forces better get it together really quickly or they'll be kicked out of Iraq. If you think that's a bit pessimistic, look at the Marines' experience in Lebanon, or for that matter Somalia. If they can't stand a few shoes being hurled (this is a very big insult btw) without opening fire, they aren't gonna be welcome for very long at all.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineTs-ior From Tunisia, joined Oct 2001, 3488 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (11 years 5 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1002 times:


The fired Iraqis were protesting against the negligence of the Americans regarding their vital needs.The invaders promised prompt measures to repair what have been damaged during war,but things seem to be as slow as it ever been.Iraqis went to cry their need for the better life they have been promised,and as i response to their requests,soldiers started fire deliberately.

Remark that it was a kind of peaceful march,and there were no gunners among them.Of course,it was in self-defense !!!


User currently offlineAirplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (11 years 5 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 993 times:

And all this because the protestors were throwing rocks and SHOES?

Hey! Some of those shoes can be kind of pointy!

 Smile


User currently offlineYak42 From Ireland, joined Oct 2000, 801 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (11 years 5 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 983 times:

We'll call it: Bloody Tuesday!

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