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"Change Your Religion Or Else!"  
User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (11 years 2 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1415 times:

No, the thread title (In this case...) isn't the official policy of Iran or the worldview of homicidal maniacs who fly airliners into buildings filled with moms and dads who leap out of their offices on fire.

It's the demands of a no less contemptable zealot.....a brainwashed thug posing as a Tennessee school boy.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/05/12/crusade.lawsuit.ap/index.html

After Christmas break in early 2002, (pagan) India said three boys chased her down a hall at Horace Maynard Middle School, grabbed her by the neck and said, "You better change your religion or we'll change it for you."

Seems the young girl (14 year old India Tracy, whose parents profess a belief in paganism) didn't care to tag along to see ol' Baptist pastor Gary Beeler's "fire and brimstone for kids" 'sermon'.......on a field trip in which this PUBLIC school spokesman was quick to point out "We do not endorse, promote or prohibit it," (school spokesman Wayne Goforth). Sounds to me like letting kids off of school for a day is IMPLICIT promotion

Every year, hundreds of Union County students take a field trip for the soul. Children are excused from class, loaded onto school buses with teachers and sent to a three-day Christian revival.

Gotcha, Wayne. I'm sure the whole school has Rosh Hashana off too. Goforth and lie your ass off no more.

More proof of the gross fraud and sometimes less than covert smugness that Bible-thumpers (or in this case, 'Christian' terrorists) have towards "not promoting" their agendas in public schools.....in communities where anyone who doesn't 'get on board' with the majority is instantly singled out ("Youre more than welcome to wait in the hall while we pray, dear!").

And to make sure that fundie 'Christian' agenda is easily available in public schools, the far right wingers IN CHARGE OF today's Republican Party (a fact many of you moderate GOPers just won't bring yourself to believe), the 'party of less government' has created....more government. An entire new layer of bureaucracy just to make sure no one is saying 'Christians' can't use the cafeteria after hours.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/05/13/school.prayer.ap/index.html

For the first time, federal law requires school districts to prove that they have no policy stifling court-protected prayer by students or teachers. Those that don't comply risk losing a share of elementary and secondary school money totaling $23 billion.

Initial responses, due April 15, showed some states had dozens of schools out of compliance; other states failed to reply at all.

But leaders in those states say paperwork problems, not trouble over prayer policies, accounted for the delay. Most of the more than 15,000 school districts have since certified they follow the law, and federal officials seem content the states have shown good faith.


That's right. The Federal Government is now mandating through the same bureaucracy right wingers went apesh*t over for decades that schools prove beyond a doubt that Preacher Gary, just like the Army recruiters and the Blood Drives, can waltz into a public school and wiggle snakes whenever he goddamned pleases.

It is one of the more frightening realities of life in America in 2003 that, as our military and intelligence services fight tirelessly to keep us free from foreign oppressive maniacs marching in the name of God, within our own borders the same people are flexing their muscles to create the American theocracy they've dreamed of for years.




21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMbmbos From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (11 years 2 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1363 times:

Heavy,

I think this will be the Right's downfall, sleeping with the Fundamentalist Christians. I truly believe, and I think that demographics show it, that many moderate and conservative people align themselves with the Republican party because the libertarian aspect of the conservative philosophy appeals to them.

I don't think the majority of Americans - even conservatives - have a stomach for this crusade. And the religious right's agenda becomes clearer and clearer every day.

Lots of people feel uneasy about the issue of abortion, for example, but when their sixteen year old daughter gets pregnant, they want to have options. People get uptight when the ACLU sues when a prayer is held publicly, but the same people don't want to be shipping their kids off to fundamentalist schools.

In the long run, I think the Republican party has bet on the wrong pony.

And, if I'm wrong and Americans have taken a hard right turn, then I'm packing my bags and moving to Holland.



User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 2 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1349 times:

many moderate and conservative people align themselves with the Republican party because the libertarian aspect of the conservative philosophy appeals to them.

It's an excellent point. And I won't pretend for a second that this faith-based power mongering is the default position of all Republicans, for it clearly isn't.

But until those same people finally say enough is enough and stop underestimating the power the mullahs of American fundamentalism weild over the GOP, and presently, by default, American society...GOP moderates will be 'enablers' . They will either be part of the solution, or part of an ugly sectarian problem that will only get worse with time, a religious 'Balkanization' of our culture where only the ayatollahs get more powerful.



User currently offlinePetertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3341 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (11 years 2 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1333 times:

Mbmbos:
"And, if I'm wrong and Americans have taken a hard right turn, then I'm packing my bags and moving to Holland."


If you require Dutch lessons, e-mail me! I will be free most of next week! Big grin



Attamottamotta!
User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (11 years 2 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1332 times:

Whatever, Real Christians wouldn't act that way. Funny how everyone else wants the freedom to believe how they will but demand it be denied to Christians. The only reason Heavy hates Christians is because we believe that his so called "lifestyle" is immoral and wrong. I guess we'll see who is right on Judgment Day.


"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13155 posts, RR: 78
Reply 5, posted (11 years 2 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1322 times:

I think Heavymetal is speaking for the sane majority, as for 757300, he'd maybe be happier in Iran, just change the religious symbols, the attitude remains the same.



User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (11 years 2 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1318 times:

In my home town recently a Sikh temple was vandalized by a 14 year old kid. There was a lot of community support for the temple. The kids from the school across the street offered to clean some of it up.

A good & decent story.

My own favorite is the tale of Billings, Montana a few years back when neo-Nazis threatened publically to vandalize any home displaying a menorah for chanukkah. In that town populated mostly by Christians, there were but a handful of Jews. Hundreds of homes ended up displaying menorahs. You do the math and figure out the great deed that was done.

The rage I feel is at our present condition culturally, when wonderous stories like that...the living American spirit...are followed up by devious little plots to inject "Christianity" into every nook & cranny of public discourse. And I put it in "quotes" because frequently the messages that demand a stage...to school kids or otherwise.....are far less about Christ's message and far more about the demands of whoever claims to speak for Him. What happens to your tale when "the Kids from the school across the street" finish their noble task, then return to a school bombarded by the will of some nut who wants them to know a specific message....one more than a Christian message of love, of understanding, of brotherhood...., that the Sikhs are going straight to Hell.

No revival, no field trip, no sermon, no textbook cover, no song, no prayer circle SHOULD be as powerful a testimony to the wisdom of Jesus than the single lived life of one who believes in Him. Christ's Words have survived trial and torture in far more perilous places than a public school cafeteria. They don't need to be 'protected' by bureaucrats trying to win points with a small but powerful group of Pharissees.


User currently offline747-451 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2417 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (11 years 2 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1314 times:

The synagogue here and several nighborhoods in the vacinity have had a rash of anti-semitic and neo nazi vandalism--so much for the big "liberal, open minded city"-- yes I know that these acts are committed by a few bad apples. However, that may pass in Birmingham, not NYC. And most of the time , the perps get only a slap on the wrist because of our liberal, anti-victim judicial system.


"many moderate and conservative people align themselves with the Republican party because the libertarian aspect of the conservative philosophy appeals to them."

"But until those same people finally say enough is enough and stop underestimating the power the mullahs of American fundamentalism weild over the GOP, and presently, by default, American society"

However, alongside complaining about the right wing fanatics that permiate the GOP, perhaps democrats should question themselves why so many "moderates" have left or leave the Democrats on election day--perhaps it is because the democrats are currently under siege by Ayathollahs Clinton, Pelosi and Dashcle and their cabal of radical leftism, social engineering, (percieved) obstructionism and anti middle class taxing and spending, which will only feed the republicans? And it makes moderates settle for the better of the two evils, the eveils that will have the least amount of negative impact (since neither party offers a positive? at least in the condition they are in at the moment)If there is blame to be laid, it goes to radicals on either side. Secondly, not all democrats, like myself, are happy ewith the direction of the party. If the democrats want to win, they have to distinguish themselves from the Reps by offering workable alternatives for all citizens, not the few. The way to offer a counter to conservatism/religious right is not to become ultra radical left either; which is where the witches Pelosi and Clinton and their zealot Daschle are leading the party.



User currently offlineBobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (11 years 2 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1310 times:

Lest there be any doubt about how church and state are separated, here's an (old) Bush quote:

No, I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.

 Wink/being sarcastic



Cunning linguist
User currently offlineRedngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 45
Reply 9, posted (11 years 2 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1305 times:

I caution you to remember that there is great variety and diversity among Christians.

Not every Christian is a Republican, a conservative or a right-winger; and not every Republican is a Christian, not every conservative is a Christian, and not every right-winger is a Christian; and that many Christians disagree with President Bush on various issues, even if we call him a brother (some Christians also don't call him a brother!)

redngold



Up, up and away!
User currently offlineWe're Nuts From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (11 years 2 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1288 times:

This is what happens when you let something as childish and trivial as a religion get to your head.  Insane


Dear moderators: No.
User currently offlineMx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (11 years 2 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1273 times:

Heavy,

The rest of the world is watching with horror at the Bush / GOP agenda's just creeping along at a nasty pace.

Not that were worried about USA external policy - more the snake oil rubbish that is emanating out of those in power and the deterioration of freedom of speech in the USA.

Hopefully the electorate will eventually get jacked with these dudes and kick the fundies out.

Good luck!

mb  Big grin

*toy box*



User currently offlineMxCtrlr From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2485 posts, RR: 35
Reply 12, posted (11 years 2 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1256 times:

Its reasons like this that I no longer participate in organized religion. There is little differentiation between a religious zealot in Tennessee harassing and physically threatening a child, and a religious zealot in Afghanistan threatening and harming an entire populace! While the scale may be different, the action is the same!

I consider organized religion to be nothing more than yet another big business in this country (and world-wide). Prey upon the fears that, if you don't follow "our religion's teachings" here, you'll pay for it in the hereafter. I truly believe in the hereafter - Every time I go to the store, I get there and wonder what I'm here after!  Laugh out loud

If you break down the various "bibles" of the various mainstream religions in the world (Islam, Buddhism, Shintoism, Christianity, Judaism, etc) you will find that they all say basically the same thing - Be good to each other and take care of each other! There is nothing in ANY of those texts that say "Threaten other people in My name" or "Kill anyone who doesn't believe as you do", etc. That is what HUMANS have put in between the lines to push their own personal agenda.

Nope, I haven't wanted anything to do with religion and so-called "religious people" since an incident years ago opened my eyes to the hypocrisy. So-called pious, religious people were engaging in all kinds of lies, innuendo, harassment and gossip over something between me and another member of that church - To the point where the police were called into it and I left "the church" permanently. Now, I worship God on my own terms and try to follow those simple steps mentioned above - Be good to each other and take care of each other!  Big thumbs up

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K.  Smokin cool



DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6751 posts, RR: 76
Reply 13, posted (11 years 2 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1212 times:

In the years I've lived abroad, I've heard so many Christians say Muslims are evil... and so many Muslims say Christians are evil... I've seen people from each side trying to convert someone from another...

If that's what everyone thinks, then I say "God strike us down and end the world NOW !"

Mandala499
"beware yee My believers of those who claim to preach My word but are themselves unbelievers"



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineFlyboy36y From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3039 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (11 years 2 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1136 times:

And, if I'm wrong and Americans have taken a hard right turn, then I'm packing my bags and moving to Holland.

Ammmen! Amen! Amen!

I hate the Xtian right. Bunch of fools they are. They don't even understand their own relligion. Brainwashed people they are. Care not about other people's rights, they don't.


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8502 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (11 years 2 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1115 times:

Talks like Yoda, he does. Big grin

747-451 I KNOW you did not say that B-ham's population accepts racism and blatant intolerance like that. They don't. I'd say NYC is FAR more likely to have exactly what occured in your post.

No revival, no field trip, no sermon, no textbook cover, no song, no prayer circle SHOULD be as powerful a testimony to the wisdom of Jesus than the single lived life of one who believes in Him. Christ's Words have survived trial and torture in far more perilous places than a public school cafeteria. They don't need to be 'protected' by bureaucrats trying to win points with a small but powerful group of Pharissees.

Heavy, I could not agree more.


Finally, those idiots (and yes, they were idiots) who abused India were not acting as Christians, they were acting as thugs. If they understood Christianity then they would know that what they did was exactly the wrong thing to do.



User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (11 years 2 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1109 times:

Whatever, Real Christians wouldn't act that way.

"Real" Christians, according to you B757300, only harrass and make life hell for liberals and homosexuals, not pagans, right?

I guess we'll see who is right on Judgment Day.

And, as I've said before, B757300, a lot of "Born-Again", conservative "Christians" are going to have a rude awakening, I believe, when that day comes. They'll find out that it's not wise to promote hatred in the Name of The Lord.

And MD90, great point about how they act as thugs. But the sad truth is that the far religious right is being taught to act like religious thugs this way, on all assortment of issues political, social, religious, etc. They are being taught by nuts like Falwell, and Robertson, and Reed, and even Bush, that they have some God-given mandate to reshape the U.S., indeed, the world, in their own perverted version of Christianity, which promotes intolerance and U.S. dominance of the world.


User currently offlineMxCtrlr From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2485 posts, RR: 35
Reply 17, posted (11 years 2 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1105 times:

Heavymetal,

No revival, no field trip, no sermon, no textbook cover, no song, no prayer circle SHOULD be as powerful a testimony to the wisdom of Jesus than the single lived life of one who believes in Him. Christ's Words have survived trial and torture in far more perilous places than a public school cafeteria. They don't need to be 'protected' by bureaucrats trying to win points with a small but powerful group of Pharissees.

I cannot agree with you more and could not have put that in better words that you did!  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up The selection of the word "Pharisees" < sp? > was amazingly accurate for that's what people like the ones described in this article are - Modern-day Pharisees! Hopefully, when the time comes, they will see the folly of their ways but that is not for us to decide! All those of us who are truly religious can do is to take each day as it comes, be satisfied with who and what we are, be good to each other and treat each other right. The rest will work itself out.

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K.  Smokin cool



DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
User currently offlineWindshear From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 2325 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (11 years 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1087 times:

Hmmm in the Tora it's a sin to let religion be your entire lifestyle, because you will grow blind and not see anything else...
Extreme religious freaks like these REALLY REALLY scare me!
They believe that what ever they do, is justified from above, so they really have no limits to what they can do...

Scary shit man!

Wake up America! :-(

Boaz...



"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
User currently offline747-451 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2417 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (11 years 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1075 times:

MD90;

"747-451 I KNOW you did not say that B-ham's population accepts racism and blatant intolerance like that. They don't. I'd say NYC is FAR more likely to have exactly what occured in your post."

No offense intended. Perhaps I shlould have said Birmingham in the 1950's ; though after the Crown Heights riots here, which were "allowed" to continue by Dinkin's (along with the Korean store boycott, Bensonhurst, Sharpton, Freddy's Fashion Mart, Central Park Rape and other racist failures in the city)make one feel that it is almost worse than the "old timey south" ...

(PS-I was born in ATL and live in NYC and will return to ATL next year)


User currently offlineGc From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2003, 356 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (11 years 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1072 times:

Well, another example of us all being tarred with the same brush. There's definately an anti-christian agenda on the boards. It is naive and bigotted to lump all those who choose to follow Jesus and His teachings as right wing Republicans or "scary freaks". I've tried in previous topics to put another side of Christianity across, the one that most of us are following and the one that I see Jesus talking about. The one that ministers to addicts, to the homeless, that goes into cities in Iraq (people that I know) to help people rebuild their homes and schools, that suffers under intense persecution, torture and death in countries such as Indonesia, Pakistan and China. But hey, you don't want to know about any of that 'cause it doesn't fit the stereotypical televangelist right wing "Christian"

I like a good debate like anyone, but this is getting stupid. The misconceptions keep coming out even after they're countered.

That's why I've cancelled my subscription, I'm interested in discussion, all I've seen on this board in the past few months are personal slanging matches, in which I'm not interested.


Outta Here!!



User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 21, posted (11 years 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1065 times:

"It's a great pity that most people have enough religion to be able to hate, but not enough to be able to love."

- Tony DeMello, SJ

Charles, SJ



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
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