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Britain Says "no" To The Euro For The Time Being  
User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7413 posts, RR: 13
Posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3081 times:
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The Chancellor of the Exchequer has stated that 4 out of the 5 tests that he had set for Britain to get ready for a referendum on the Euro have not been met, but there is a possibility of having it next year instead (with Euro becoming the currency around 2009?).

More details on the BBC website story

David



96 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMonarch From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 362 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3062 times:

Yet again we see the Government hiding away from the fact that Britain needs and wants a referendem!

Vote No!


User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24960 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3049 times:

Hopefully we will stay out of the Euro forever.


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineF.pier From Italy, joined Aug 2000, 1524 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3041 times:

I agree, I hope you to stay out forever.

The UK is too far from the European Union.


User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3038 times:
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I agree, I hope you to stay out forever.

The UK is too far from the European Union


And this coming from an Italian.  Yeah sure



In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineMonarch From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 362 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3037 times:

Yeah, Europe are weak and feable anyway! Just wait until they ask the USA for help. Thank God Sweden so far, have said no to the Euro!

Vote No!


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3032 times:

Five posts in an people are already sprouting non-sensical opinions based on xenophobia, personal hatred of the EU/a fetish of the EU, emotional links to a currency (!) and very very few actual facts.

User currently offlineF.pier From Italy, joined Aug 2000, 1524 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3026 times:

Sincerely I can't understand why the UK doesn't leave the EU.

I can't understand why you entered. I sincerely think you entered just to avoid Europe to become a federal country and you're doing it in a good way.

Now I would like to make a question about the Euro, but not about UK/Euro.

Uk people, do you like that the EU states noe have the Euro?


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8733 posts, RR: 42
Reply 8, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3020 times:

Referendum or whatever, letting the people chose whether to join the ECU or not is democratic. If the British don't want the Euro, nobody should force them to it.

As for myself, I loved going to Venice without having to change money, without passport controls, without customs... So I guess I love the EU, even though it's so bureaucratic.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3005 times:

Referendum or whatever, letting the people chose whether to join the ECU or not is democratic. If the British don't want the Euro, nobody should force them to it.

Exactly. Giving up your national currency is giving up a piece of your national independence. Britons should have a referendum on this. Sweden is sked for one this fall & the Swedes are expected to say no.

The primary problem with adopting the Euro is that the UK will lose control of its monetary policy which could cause extremes in economic performance with an exchange rate determined by bureaucrats in Brussels or Frankfurt as opposed to London. Since the UK can be booming while Germany is in recession (or the reverse), a common currency carries some risk. At any rate, the Euro is likely to become a de facto "2nd or unofficial" currency in the UK anyway evn if the pound is retained.







Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3003 times:

I agree, I hope you to stay out forever.

The UK is too far from the European Union
Ironically,it was because of the profligate nature of the Italian government,that German (ironically now)on the Growth and Stability Pact.You're dislike the Brits is irrelevant on such an economic matter.The UK joining the Euro would be a boost to the Euro's long-term success.
The main issue is whether the loss of our own monetary (and to a certain and increasing extent,fiscal policy)outweighs the advantages of no currency fluctuations from where over 50% of our exports go.At the moment,I do not believe the UK economy would fit the straightjacket of the '1 size fits all' interest rates as our inflation is slightly higher and our economy is doing better than most of the Eurozone's economies-without excessive pump priming too.The ECB also has too low an inflation target resulting in higher interest rates than the inflation target the BOE has.The BOE(like the Fed Reserve)seems a lot more proactive than the ECB,interestingly as Germany gets close to a Japanese deflation-recession trap.
The Eurozone economies also have labour markets that are too rigid,hindering long term economic growth.Ireland has probably the most flexible market in the EU and is seeing economic growth rates that are much higher than that of most of the Eurozone.This,however,is a long term issue and contains political as well as economic issues.
It seems increasingly likely to me that some countries joined the Euro for political not economic reasons.I do not want the mistake to be repeated here.If the UK economy clicks in with the EU economy in terms of the business cycle for a sustained period of time then it would make sense to join and we should join.Currently it doesn't and we shouldn't,EU politics aside.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2985 times:

Here's a good analogy. Canada's economy is far more integrated into the US economy than the UK economy is into Europe's. 87% of Canada's exports go to the US....and yet Canada retains its own (floating) currency. There is no serious policy option in Canada to adopt the US dollar though.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3682 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2980 times:

Funny how anti-EU use any arguments to back their opinions.

Monarch: The currency of a country doesn't determine his foreign politics, but it seems to be a national game in Anglo-Saxon countries to mix all the problems and period of history.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 13, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2963 times:

it seems to be a national game in Anglo-Saxon countries to mix all the problems and period of history.

It was anglo-saxons that rescued your country from the horrors of German occupation in 2 world wars.......so we're not all bad.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2959 times:
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The loss of monetory policy and being unable to set our own interests is *THE* main concern among the British public, economists, politicians etc. Being unable set our own interests to adjust and be flexible with regards to our economy is a dangerous asset to lose. Suppose for example in 10 years the UK is where Germany is right now, on the brink of recession, and the Bank of England is unable control interest rates for Britain. This is a major sticking point, setting interest rates is not the be all and end all, but it is crucial part of our economic control which we should not give up so easily.

Right now, the Eurozone is stuck in neutral, unable to grow or move, while the British and Swedish economies (suprise suprise, 2 countries outside the eurozone) are literally booming, the housing market is up in the UK, unemployment rate is at it's lowest in decades and the Sterling is still performing well against the Euro. The one-size-fit's-all policy policy of setting interest rates for 12 different economies is simply absurd.

Economically and financially it would foolish for the UK to join the Euro now, it is no coincidence that Britain is doing well outside the eurozone, economists and financial experts predict would Britain would do well to stay out of the Eurozone for the next few years, this is why Gordon Brown gave a "No, not yet" verdict.

All in all, you shouldn't fix something that's not broken.





In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8733 posts, RR: 42
Reply 15, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2958 times:

"It was anglo-saxons that rescued your country from the horrors of German occupation in 2 world wars.......so we're not all bad."

Ugh. What does WWII have to do with that? Hell, that war ended (in Europe) 58 years, 1 month and one day ago, there was that thing called "Cold War" after it and some people still think Hitler's "efforts" are the most important thing when it comes to international relations. Please, we Euros don't say "be grateful for manning your country", do we?



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8733 posts, RR: 42
Reply 16, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2959 times:

Arsenal, if that policy is so absurd, how come that Ireland and Finland are doing quite well, too?

"All in all, you shouldn't fix something that's not broken."

That is correct, and the one and only decisive argument against Britain adopting the Euro.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2948 times:
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Arsenal, if that policy is so absurd, how come that Ireland and Finland are doing quite well, too?

You can nitpick here and there, but the underlying trend is there to see for everyone. One of the 5 economic tests Gordon Brown set out was Convergence, which is the alignment of the British economy to the Eurozone, this simply has not happened and and joining the single currency now will almost certainly cause problems down the line for the UK in regards to jobs, interest rates, taxes etc. The UK economy is flexible and dynamic, it mirrors the US economy but on a smaller scale, this is another key point, the marrying of the UK economy with the eurozone. Economies in the eurozone simply don't have the flexibility, dynamism and growth which the UK has now, and until that happens i don't see why we have to join the single currency.



In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8733 posts, RR: 42
Reply 18, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2936 times:

"The UK economy is flexible and dynamic (...) dynamism and growth..." Oh how I wish... From this somewhat neoliberalist standpoint, which old leftie me happens to adore sometimes, it wouldn't only be unreasonable for the UK to enter the Eurozone, but it would be absurd.

The UK has always been eager to stress its independence and sovereignty, and placed its bets rather Liberté than Fraternité, which proves to be a succesful mix today. That "welfare state" kind of talking going on here in Germany would probably be looked at as hilarious or even ridiculous in the UK. The problem is that the EU is headed in a similar direction of nanny and welfare state, and I understand very well why many "Brits" are so reluctant to like it.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 19, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2926 times:

That "welfare state" kind of talking going on here in Germany would probably be looked at as hilarious or even ridiculous in the UK. The problem is that the EU is headed in a similar direction of nanny and welfare state, and I understand very well why many "Brits" are so reluctant to like it.
Which again shows the inflexibility of the German labour market,hence the 10%+ unemployment.


User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2920 times:

You had a Maggie who cut off much of the power the unions had, we still have to find our personal Thatcher to tell the Sommers and Bsirskes to shut up. As surprising as it is, Schröder has made a step in the right direction, against the massive protests from the union. Thank god we don't have the strike culture of France...

User currently offlinePaulc From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2901 times:

The whole concept of the EU needs to be debated in the UK, after all it has grown from a common market idea of free trade between nations to a largely unelected, unaccountable, corrupt bureaucracy. This may not actually be the case (unlikely) but it is the perception of the british people that it is - all we ever seem to hear about are laws imposed on us by the eu that other countries ignore if they do not like them, if criminals do not like a verdict then they can go to the european courts and often get a ruling overturned. It is things like that which are undermining the right of self goverment and why the uk is deemed to be 'anti europe'

The eu is run for the benefit of the french and germans and the rest are supporting players.

When the ECB cut interest rates last week - which country will benefit the most (hint begins with G)

The euro is a small part in the overall project of a United States of Europe and the sooner the UK gets out, the better.




English First, British Second, european Never!
User currently offlineSaintsman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 2065 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2896 times:

Personally I think that it is not the financial reasons why the UK population does not want a single currency but rather the fact that we percieve that we do not get a good deal by being in Europe. The feeling is that it costs us more by being in the EC than it would standing on our own and that there are far too many meddling rules that disrupt our normal way of life. That logic may be flawed but come a vote thats the logic that will be used.

User currently offlineBuckfifty From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1316 posts, RR: 19
Reply 23, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2895 times:

You know, if the English Channel was filled in many moons ago, and people were free to walk on dry land between Dover and Calais, I think they would have voted yes to the Euro by now.

Let's face it. No matter how many times you put forth practical arguments against the Euro, the fact is, there really are none...


User currently offlineFDXmech From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3251 posts, RR: 34
Reply 24, posted (11 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2888 times:

>>>Sincerely I can't understand why the UK doesn't leave the EU.<<<

That's a job for plate tectonics.






You're only as good as your last departure.
25 Banco : Buckfifty, that's one of the most ludicrous comments on the Euro that I've heard! No practical arguments against the Euro? They are many and numerous.
26 Arsenal@LHR : You know, if the English Channel was filled in many moons ago, and people were free to walk on dry land between Dover and Calais, I think they would h
27 Ryanb741 : Without giving any of my reasons - whilst I don't like the idea of Britain adopting the Euro, in the long term it would be of benefit for us and the E
28 Travelin man : It seems that the EU would have been better off remaining an economic alliance, rather than this Frankenstein of an effort to consolidate economic, po
29 Post contains images Bobrayner : Personally, I think that the UK would be better off inside the Euro, although joining tomorrow would not be optimal. I also think that, whilst the Eur
30 Aloges : Most of you people say that the Euro is not the best of ideas because the ECU countries aren't tied enough, economically. So would you favour the UK j
31 Yyz717 : Even if it remains outside the Euro, the Euro will still likely become the de facto 2nd currency in the UK with all vendors etc accepting Euros and po
32 Swake : Hey you Brits are right!! Without the EU Sabena would still be around!! Naaaaaahh
33 Post contains images Klaus : You´re missing out... And you´ll probably find out what you´re missing when it´s almost too late - as always. Germany and France have certainly be
34 Paulc : Banco, the germans still have the ECB in their pocket - after all the cut in interest rates a few days ago will help the german economy rather than an
35 Indianguy : Once again the UK has proven that is indeed America's Trojan Horse/Donkey in Europe. -Roy
36 Sebolino : The international investors show their confidence in the Euro, the high level of the currency is the consequence of that. Of course it's because they
37 Aloges : "English first, British 2nd, european never" I see: "That's a job for plate tectonics." But you don't expect us Continentals to like you Brits if you
38 Post contains images Andreas : Ok PaulC, everybody can see clearly that you are anti-European and especially anti-German. Very well, in a free world you have every right to state yo
39 Arsenal@LHR : You´re missing out... And you´ll probably find out what you´re missing when it´s almost too late - as always Well if missing out on record unemplo
40 Arsenal@LHR : But you don't expect us Continentals to like you Brits if you look at it this way, do you? What's wrong with you continentals? Many of us like to be E
41 Andreas : Arsenal, just one hint: Deutsche Bank Chief economist Norbert Walter said in an interview that these tests are from a scientific point of view highly
42 Aloges : "Are you telling me you're European first and German second?" Yes, I am. Look at my profile. "Are you proud to be German?" Nope. How could I be proud
43 Post contains images Paulc : Anti eu and anti euro - yes but not necessarily anti german - I will be there tomorrow and it will be interesting to see how much more it will cost me
44 Post contains images Andreas : Aloges, I couldn't have said it better!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Arsenal, that may be something you as a Brit will not easily understand, but quite a few things h
45 Post contains images Arsenal@LHR : Yes, I am. Look at my profile Well that's truly amazing. You call yourself an entity which does not exist! Tell me, what does your passport say? You c
46 Post contains images Aloges : My passport says "Europäische Union Bundesrepublik Deutschland"which means "European Union, Federal Republic of Germany" So it's European first, Germ
47 Post contains images Andreas : Quote:Anti eu and anti euro - yes but not necessarily anti german no but unnecessarily so, quite obviously! Quote: how many times have you been to the
48 Post contains images Arsenal@LHR : My passport say's European Union United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland It's a British passport, i am a holder of a British passport, ma
49 Aloges : Huh? When did this start to be about understanding or not understanding something? I get what you mean, perfectly, and all I meant to do was expressin
50 Post contains images Andreas : Arsenal, no need to get all fired up, we are not talking about football here ! And as far as concerned, you are German!! then European. Very well, and
51 Post contains images Arsenal@LHR : People who usually bang on about how unimportant nationality is, are usually the federalists who are more interested in a Euro superstate than the ind
52 Post contains images Paulc : where exactly did I say the UK was superior to germany ?? - it is not my fault that you feel inferior I did not condem germany for their stance agains
53 Post contains images Andreas : Well I don't know about Aloges, but I suspect that is not correct either. Being anti-nationalistic does not automatically mean pro-megalomaniac-bureau
54 Racko : I don't really know if it's funny or just sad to see how this discussion developed. I'll keep quiet about the last points as the discussion has come t
55 Post contains images Arsenal@LHR : If you really want to know about Corruption, i'll tell you. In a recent study by a German anti-corruption group, Transparency International, Britain w
56 Sebolino : My passport does say european union but in very small letters compared to United Kingdom - english first, british 2nd, european never I don't know if
57 Arsenal@LHR : I don't know if I should laugh. The anti-European sentiment in the UK is astounding *What* "anti-European" sentiment? You sound like some of the ameri
58 Post contains images Sebolino : If you don't calm down Arsenal, I will be accused to have pushed you out of the rules.
59 GKirk : The majority of people in the UK (Last poll I think was 85%) want to keep the pound , about 10% wanted the Euro, and 5% were unsure. Keep the Pound!
60 Sebolino : The majority of people in the UK (Last poll I think was 85%) want to keep the pound Yes, but do they know why they want to keep the pound ?
61 GKirk : Part of tradittion and that we want to keep control of our own economy. Thank you very much.
62 Sebolino : we want to keep control of our own economy Everybody wants that. It's why European want to keep control on their own economy that they created the Eur
63 GKirk : EU is NOT a country, its a Union. Countries should control their OWN economies.
64 Sebolino : EU is an ECONOMIC and political union. Europe should control its own economy.
65 David_itl : So tell me Sebolino...this "one size fits all" approach is doing wonders for the Irish, German and Portuguese economies is it? David
66 Travelin man : A better question is "has there been any business case made for adopting the Euro?" Anyone??
67 Andreas : David I've said this several times and I'll gladly repeat it: Don't overestimate interest rate policy. Of course it helps a little bit to have basic i
68 Sebolino : So tell me David_itl, when a region in UK is poorer than another, when it faces some economic problems, unemployement, whatever, this region should cr
69 Sebolino : By the way, we forget that easily, but the Euro was mainly created to have a stable economy between members, like we have between regions in a single
70 Aloges : "People who usually bang on about how unimportant nationality is, are usually the federalists who are more interested in a Euro superstate than the in
71 FDXmech : If Europe ever becomes the U.S. of E. How many generations do you feel it would take for, let's say, the average German to be European and not German.
72 Aloges : It would take several generations, pretty much like it took generations for Prussiand to feel completely German. However, people must not be forced to
73 Donder10 : That's not an argument. Countries in the ECU still control their own economies, the only thing they don't control anymore is their immediate monetary
74 Sebolino : It would take several generations, pretty much like it took generations for Prussiand to feel completely German That's a very good example. Remember t
75 Arsenal@LHR : By the way, we forget that easily, but the Euro was mainly created to have a stable economy between members, like we have between regions in a single
76 Aloges : "We already have a strong union which has already stolen enough sovereign powers from member states. And how do plan to this 'stronger', more democrat
77 Sebolino : jacques chiraq who would also be facing criminal charges were he not president of france. Sorry to disappoint you, but that's false. Chirac wouldn't f
78 Post contains images Arsenal@LHR : Don't forget that the member states joined the EU voluntarily, so the EU has not stolen a thing from them. I think that choice of words is highly inap
79 Aloges : I'm getting the message pretty much all the time, but I think I shouldn't say on here what message I get. To put it mildly, both of us are thinking th
80 Banco : And there I think you've hit the nail on the head Aloges. Quite frequently I read the response of each side to the other, and it's quite clear that ne
81 Andreas : Oh PaulC, if you could hear yourself whining....: where exactly did I say the UK was superior to germany ?? just reread what you posted, but I'm afrai
82 Aloges : Very good post, Banco. I figure that what you're saying means that Britain has always been best off on its own, and that the British see no need to ch
83 Arsenal@LHR : And finally you admit you are a federalist Aloges Banco, Amen to that my son!
84 Racko : Sorry for a dumb question, but what does "federalist" exactly mean? Wasn't there some discussions because the English word federalism has a different
85 Donder10 : Even in English it is not exact.Centralisation is the better word to use,IMO.
86 Racko : That's the problem, in German "Föderalismus" is the exact opposite, it means decentralisation...
87 Arsenal@LHR : A clearer definition would be: A centralised government with one constitution, one legal sytem, one flag, one anthem, total authoritarian control. Thi
88 Aloges : "total authoritarian control." I used to love that dictionary website. What I mean when I say "federalism" is supporting a union of states, leaving th
89 Arsenal@LHR : but without their own international relations. Ah but, this is where it becomes completely unacceptable, something which the British population and Br
90 777236ER : It's pretty worrying that someone who doesn't know who Bob Dylan is is telling people what the British people want.
91 Arsenal@LHR : Bob Dylan (whoever he is) and the EU = No relation.
92 777236ER : Bob Dylan (whoever he is) and the EU = No relation. Yeah I won't agree, you're getting pretty worked up here and I'm scared to be honest. Just don't t
93 Banco : No, it isn't 777236Er, but it is true that the concept of a federal Europe is anaethema to the vast majority of the British people. And herein lies th
94 Arsenal@LHR : Yeah I won't agree, you're getting pretty worked up here and I'm scared to be honest. Just don't think that you know everything about Britain. What yo
95 Post contains images Slz396 : Does Britain still hold a seat on the UN Security counsel then? I thought the UK 'ambassador' was merely a 3rd class actor who just sat there to make
96 Paulc : The uk said 'no' and will continue to say no until such times as we feel we are getting a fair deal in europe. Aloges, we will have to disagree on the
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