Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Man Takes Law Into His Own Hands......  
User currently offlineNWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2704 times:

http://www.local6.com/news/2272794/detail.html

Basically a business owner gets robbed, he gets into his Hummer and chases after the robbers, and runs over their car, two of the 4 guys are critically injured.

A decision to file charges has not been made, do you think he should face charges? I think most definitely not, I think he should be given an award instead.




-NWA742

75 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8724 posts, RR: 43
Reply 1, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2689 times:

That's called lynch law, and if one of the critically injured dies, it's homicide. Chasing them, even beating them while holding them till the police arrive would be fine, but rolling over their car with a heavy vehicle, (at least) not caring about the possibility of killing them is a criminal act.


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2677 times:

I think most definitely not, I think he should be given an award instead.

Your country was based on the principle that anyone accused of a crime should have a fair trial with a jury. One person cannot be judge, jury and executioner. If they were, you'd have anarchy.

To seriously advocate attempted murder for someone who's robbed a shop, without any sort of trial, seems ludicrous.


User currently offlineNWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2669 times:

attempted murder

How do you know it was attempted murder? Don't you think it's possible that the owner just wanted them stopped and caught?

How else would he have stopped them? From the picture it was dark, so he probably couldn't see any useful info on the getaway vehicle, and they did hold him at gunpoint throughout the entire ordeal. The robbers could've just driven into any neighborhood or left town and disappeared...........home free if it had not been for the actions of this man.

And remember, being robbed or anything like that can impair your judgement, I've experienced this personally.




-NWA742


User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 4, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2668 times:

This reminds me of the Tony Martin case here in the UK. The general info is that a man breaks into Tony Martins house, and basically Tony Martin called out to the Burglar to leave, he warned the burglar that he had a gun and despite both warnings, the burglar continued to come at him in the house, so Tony Martin shot the man, and is now serving a life sentence for it. It created outrage in the UK as the suggestion is that even in your own home, you cannot protect yourself. In addition to this, just this week, the judge cleared the burglar to sue Tony Martin for damages....

Pathetic really

Jeremy



User currently offlineHomer71 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2245 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2666 times:

You'll have to look at intent. Was he trying to stop them, or was he maliciously trying to hurt them?


"On spaceship earth there are no passengers...only crew."
User currently offlineBobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2664 times:

To seriously advocate attempted murder for someone who's robbed a shop, without any sort of trial, seems ludicrous.

I have to agree.

Plus, for every person who really is aggrieved and feels that "an eye for an eye" is the best response, there's another three or four who merely think they're aggrieved. I'd rather we don't encourage those people to firebomb abortion clinics, break the windows of shops that shortchanged them, or beat up their partners.

Given a choice between due process and mob justice, which would you prefer?



Cunning linguist
User currently offlineNWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 2660 times:

Was he trying to stop them, or was he maliciously trying to hurt them?

I agree, that's the main question here.

Out of the circumstances of the situation, I doubt he'll be charged with attempted murder, because he didn't really have another way to stop them.




-NWA742


User currently offlineBobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 2656 times:

Intent...

Well, it seems he drove over their vehicle rather than just blocking it (which can't be too hard with a hummer).

Therefore (unless he's a really bad driver  Smile), it's likely that he at least wanted to injure, rather than just apprehend.

Would be interesting to see more details.
I'm disappointed that 84% voted No.



Cunning linguist
User currently offlineHomer71 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2245 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 2654 times:

Of course, if the injured robbers manage to survive this, they can turn around and sue the store owner for pain and lost time at work (robbery)...


"On spaceship earth there are no passengers...only crew."
User currently offlineNWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 2649 times:

Well, it seems he drove over their vehicle rather than just blocking it

How would he block it when he was chasing it?

Remember...........this guy's driving a Hummer, not an H2, but a bigger heavier H1.........they're not the quickest or most maneuverable things on the road.

I think he was lucky to even be able to catch up to the guys.



-NWA742


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8724 posts, RR: 43
Reply 11, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 2648 times:

Homer71,

if some judge let that suit happen, would it be possible for him to be called a "liberal"? (Sorry for taking this a little off-topic, but I'm really curious about the meaning of that word, to some.)



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineNWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 2639 times:

if some judge let that suit happen, would it be possible for him to be called a "liberal"?

Yes.



-NWA742


User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5037 posts, RR: 44
Reply 13, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 2630 times:

What this business owner did was very irresponsible and foolish. Sure, he caught them, but what if, in his wild chase, he, or the burglars, would have caused other accidents, possibly injuring or even killing innocent people? It was a dangerous and foolish thing to do.

User currently offlineHomer71 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2245 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 2628 times:

Well, I said it half-joking, but, to answer your question...no.

Call me naive, but I don't think anyone with any political integrity (oxymoron, I know) would support a suit like that.

[Edited 2003-06-19 20:17:46]


"On spaceship earth there are no passengers...only crew."
User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 15, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 2624 times:

I have to agree with 777236 and others, the shop owner was stupid for doing what he did. One thing is if he had bumped them from behind, got on his cell phone and called the police and kept up with them, or whatever. But driving over their vehicle? Trust me, I don't mind too much that they got hurt in this case, but we can't just give anybody free will in taking matters into their own hands, especially in a country when a lot of people carry guns! It would set a very dangerous precedent if it were allowed.


"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (11 years 4 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2615 times:

Stopping the robbers is one thing. Stopping them by driving over their car is another, especially when two of them end up critically hurt. Whatever his intent was a JURY (not one person!) has to decide if he wanted to hurt them or if he was just plain stupid to think driving over a car with a Humvee wouldn't hurt anyone.

User currently offlineRyanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (11 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2574 times:

If someone tried to burgle me, I don't care about the law, I would hit him with a baseball bat, put him in the boot of my car and dump him in a river. I am fed up of all these laws protecting criminals, and you cannot rely on the police - they don't give a damn. No burglar is getting any of my sh*t without a fight.

I had a scenario 2 months ago in Acton High Street, London where an Irish guy tried to mug me for my Breitling watch. Well BAM, SMACK he had an imprint of my fist in his nose, claret all over the pavement and I'll bet a really bad headache the next morning. That will make him think twice next time. If they've got a knife, even better, I'll pick up a chair, table, I don't give a f*ck I will cave that bastard's head in. I'm fed up of these doogooder laws here in the UK. I will make anyone pay who tries to rob from me.



I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (11 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2572 times:

If someone tried to burgle me, I don't care about the law, I would hit him with a baseball bat, put him in the boot of my car and dump him in a river

Then you'd be tried for murder. Rightly so.

No burglar is getting any of my sh*t without a fight.

Because a burglar is after your shit that entitles you to kill him?

I had a scenario 2 months ago in Acton High Street, London where an Irish guy tried to mug me for my Breitling watch. Well BAM, SMACK he had an imprint of my fist in his nose, claret all over the pavement and I'll bet a really bad headache the next morning

You didn't kill him?

I don't give a f*ck I will cave that bastard's head in. I'm fed up of these doogooder laws here in the UK.

Right to a fair trial = "doogooder" [sic] law?


User currently offlineEmiratesA345 From Canada, joined Jun 2003, 2123 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (11 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2568 times:

Well one thing is for sure. They will never again attempt something like this again. Sure, I also believe the law needs to be followed and there are proper ways of dealing with robberies. Clearly not everyone gives a sh!t.

They learned their lesson.

EmiratesA345  Smile/happy/getting dizzy



You and I were meant to fly, Air Canada!
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (11 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2566 times:

They learned their lesson.

If someone does 35 mph in a 30 zone, and you seriously injure them, they will probably learn their lesson.

There's right-wing law and order, then there's just insanity.


User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 21, posted (11 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2558 times:

Ryan, you say that until you get somebody who will cave your head it. Are you invincible or something? Quite honestly, I'm happy you beat the crap out of the guy who tried to burgle you, but anything beyond that is dumb.

You are also looking at the laws in the wrong way. They aren't supposed to protect the criminals, but they are supposed to protect law abiding citizens. If the law didn't matter, anybody could just take it out on you for whatever they wanted, because hey, the law doesn't apply!



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8724 posts, RR: 43
Reply 22, posted (11 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2548 times:

"Man Takes Law Into His Own Hands......"

To put it simply, that's not where it belongs. Period.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineRyanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (11 years 4 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2508 times:

Captaingomes - normally I am extremely calm and collected (I haven't EVER had a street brawl or gotten into a fight where I wasn't protecting myself from an aggressor). I am pretty adept at martial arts (5 years ago I was regional kickboxing champion) but if it is a matter of self defence I don't care if there are ten, twenty, one hundred men, I will take them on on my own. I don't care if I get beaten - sure I may lose against ten guys but I'm taking as many of them down first as I can. Living in London, you need to be able to take care of yourself. I would never pre-empt a fight, but if somebody attacks me then I am not going to sit back and take it - I will kill that guy if I have to and I'm serious. Once he pulls a knife out on me that's it - I am going to town on that guy's face. I would never EVER hand over my wallet to a mugger, regardless of what weapon he had - no way, because next time it could be an old lady he goes for. I will batter that guy regardless of the cost to myself.


I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (11 years 4 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2501 times:

Key point here being.

If you have to shoot a burgler, and he tries to crawl out of the house. Drag him back in.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
25 Post contains images Homer71 : Good point, anything you do to an unwanted visitor in your home is nice and legal
26 L-188 : There is a big stink going on up here right now because a pastor shot two intruders inside a stairwell in his church.
27 Aloges : A pastor? Shooting someone?!? What did they do to drive him that crazy?
28 L-188 : They broke into the church to steal stuff. It was o bright early in the morning, The pastor went over with his .44 and challenged them. His problem is
29 Post contains images Aloges : I guess I'll never understand the use of violence and guns some Americans make and advocate. I just don't see the sense of it, and when even pastors s
30 L-188 : All I know is, that I try and limit my shooting to Caribou, Deer, Moose, Bear, Goose, Duck, Squirrel, Halibut, Fox, Wolf, Ptamigan, Grouse. And severa
31 Cfalk : First of all, a Hummer being a heavy vehicle in which it is just about impossible to overtake and cut someone off to stop him, (and not to mention tha
32 Captaingomes : Charles, I personally don't care about the pain and suffering these particular thieves are going through. The big issue here is people taking matters
33 NWA742 : Did this guy go too far? Absolutely. You don't run over somebody's car because they tried to steal something from you. That seems to just be your opin
34 NWA742 : Also, to all those who say this is attempted murder, think again. Like Charles said, If this man was realing trying to kill all of these robbers, why
35 Post contains images EGGD : lmao, you want to stop someone from running away so you drive over their car? I don't think so
36 Post contains images NWA742 : lmao, you want to stop someone from running away so you drive over their car? I don't think so Did you even read the article EGGD? Picture this, you'r
37 777236ER : I think the store owner used the only means available to him to stop the thieves from getting away Now we've moved on from self-defence to justifying
38 EGGD : Picture this, you're driving a Hummer, chasing after a car that is much faster and more maneuverable than you are. Ok, so how did he 'catch up with th
39 Post contains images NWA742 : Now you're just speculating for crying out loud. And after calling this "attempted murder", you're not speculating as well? Usually how police solve c
40 EGGD : Well if he managed to catch up with them and then drive over them, i'm sure he could've got in front of the car, looks from the picture like the car w
41 777236ER : Usually how police solve crimes is speculating different things that could have happened, gathering evidence, and so on.......... Oh, the police now?
42 Post contains images NWA742 : Oh, the police now? So we're not talking about people taking the law into their own hands? I wasn't changing the subject, just pointing that out. Come
43 777236ER : And no, all I said was that in THIS situation the guy was justified in running after the criminals and stopping them by the only available means possi
44 Post contains images NWA742 : You jusfity it here, while the law doesn't. Charges have not been filed against the man, so how can you say that right now? All depends on the situati
45 GD727 : Good for the business owner, he had every right to apprehend the suspects. I'm sure the guy didn't mean to nearly kill them, but he did what he had to
46 Alpha 1 : I think he should be charged with vehicular assult, and if one of them dies, or both, vehicular homocide, wreckless operation, and whatever else he ca
47 Captaingomes : NWA742, you seem to know exactly how the situation went, by claiming chances of something are zero, and that since it was dark etc the shop owner coul
48 Post contains images NWA742 : NWA742, you seem to know exactly how the situation went, by claiming chances of something are zero, and that since it was dark etc the shop owner coul
49 Captaingomes : I never once mentioned "attempted murder!!!" I did say at the very least, he should be charged with reckless driving. But you are the one who said the
50 Cfalk : In the end, if the shop owner who was victomized played his cards right, the burlgers would be charged and hopefully jailed, More likely, the burglers
51 Post contains images Captaingomes : They should sentence the shop owner to driving a New Beetle Convertible with flowers in the vase by the steering wheel! That should ensure he doesn't
52 Captaingomes : Charles, that's fine, but by doing it how he did, he shot himself in the foot, now not only did he cause more financial damage to himself, he opened u
53 NWA742 : But you are the one who said there's no way he could avoid running them over. C'mon, let's be real. No, I said there was no other way he could have ST
54 777236ER : Whatever the technicalities, the law works by saying you can't take it into your own hands. You can't decide the punishment for these people outside o
55 NWA742 : Whatever the technicalities, the law works by saying you can't take it into your own hands. That's not entirely true, the law itself states that you h
56 777236ER : That's not entirely true, the law itself states that you have a right to defend yourself, even if thay means fatally injuring a person on your propert
57 Captaingomes : It's not up to him to stop them. Your illustration with the cop is completely different. Read my situation above. If I had taken it into my own hands
58 FSPilot747 : Now this shop owner wasn't as smart as me, and instead of getting matters taken care of, he's potentially in serious trouble. Captaingomes, he didn't
59 Captaingomes : FSPilot, if you read again, it's not the parents that would pay for something like this, it's insurance. It doesn't bother me that he chased them, it
60 FSPilot747 : You have a point with the insurance, but I really can't blame the guy for doing what he did. This'll be an interesting story to follow. FSP
61 NWA742 : Did you even read my next sentence? The guy WASN'T defending himself! What are you talking about? You said: Whatever the technicalities, the law works
62 777236ER : What are you talking about? Defending yourself is not taking the law into your own hands, it's merely defending yourself. Chasing after them is taking
63 L-188 : hasing after them is taking the law into your own hands. It's doing the job of the police. Funny thing is, The police can't be held libel for not doin
64 777236ER : Funny thing is, The police can't be held libel for not doing their jobs. They aren't there to protect you. They only there after the fact. He didn't n
65 Cptkrell : Dear Group; Wow! Yet ANOTHER reason to drive a Hummer or giant SUV. Seriously, for you folks not entirely familiar with US laws, be aware that laws ar
66 Lstc : Well one thing is for sure. They will never again attempt something like this again. Sure, I also believe the law needs to be followed and there are p
67 L-188 : Basicly what this whole case breaks down two, is that the legal system does not like civilians moving in on their turf.
68 777236ER : Basicly what this whole case breaks down two, is that the legal system does not like civilians moving in on their turf. Breaks down two? And yeah, you
69 Jean Leloup : I'm sure these guys deserved what they got, but that's not the point. But I think there are three major reasons this guy should be in trouble: 1) Clea
70 Captaingomes : Jean, I couldn't have said it better. That's why at the very minumum, he should get a reckless driving conviction. If he does, I hope he gets his lice
71 NWA742 : Defending yourself is not taking the law into your own hands, it's merely defending yourself. Chasing after them is taking the law into your own hands
72 Cptkrell : NWA742 replied to a previous post, in partial, "......anyway, yes, defending yourself is the same as taking the law into your own hands......". I woul
73 777236ER : Are you saying that it would be innapropriate to say that this person broke the law before being sentenced in prison? That's stupid However stupid it
74 Post contains images LY744 : Aside from the elaborate legal and moral issues, the next biggest question would be could he have done it with a Hummer H2? They look kinda tame to me
75 Cptkrell : Dear LY744: The Hummer H2 is a direct, albeit very heavy duty, derivative of the short wheelbase GMT800 platform (read: Chevrolet Tahoe/GMC Yukon), an
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Man Holds Head In His Hands... Literally. posted Thu Jul 6 2006 10:37:53 by Diesel1
Man Hits His Own Car Then Sues Himself. posted Thu Mar 16 2006 21:48:21 by FXramper
Falwell Opening His Own Law School posted Thu Aug 19 2004 07:39:52 by Diamond
Man Convicted Of Circumcising His Daughter posted Thu Nov 2 2006 05:11:16 by Beefstew25
Man Tows Car With His Eyelids posted Thu Sep 28 2006 22:46:53 by 9V
Man Gets Arrested For His Choice Of Music posted Wed May 3 2006 02:15:06 by BenThePlaneHen
Deadbeat Dad Fakes His Own Death posted Fri Jan 20 2006 01:32:44 by Jetjack74
The Man Who Lost Half His Head posted Thu Jan 12 2006 20:29:25 by 9VSPO
Should Bush Veto His Own Energy Bill? posted Sat Aug 6 2005 23:34:31 by KC135R
Blind Man Has Sex With His Guide Dog! posted Tue Jul 19 2005 19:02:34 by 727LOVER