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Italian EU Presidency Starts Today...  
User currently offlineTurin_airport From Italy, joined Oct 2001, 278 posts, RR: 2
Posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1553 times:

From today and for the next six months, Italy will be in charge leading the European Union. Our Prime Minister, Silvio Berlusconi, will be the leader of Italian presidency.
That's what happened today during his first speech as EU president:

Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has caused uproar in the European Parliament by appearing to compare a German MEP to a Nazi concentration camp guard.

This is the link to the article:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3037386.stm

and this is a quick profile of Berlusconi by BBC:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3034600.stm

Dear European citizens, from now on (at least for six months) Berlusconi won't be just an Italian problem...

Ciao.

T_a



55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 1, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1541 times:

Given the fact how much most of you folks wonder how the hell he became president, he shouldn't be a problem for too long. At least, I hope his media power won't be sufficient to get him re-elected.

By the way, this is the cover of this week's "Der Spiegel":




Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 2, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1536 times:

Yes Turin, that is quite apparent, and it looks like he can and will actually trigger some major setbacks in the process of bringing Europe closer together.

Actually he recommended Michael Mueller, vice chairman of the SPD fraction in the German parliament to apply for the job of playing such a villain in a movie production...that was his answer to Mueller who had dared to critisize Berlusconi's law manipulations that made him immune from Italian law.

This guy is a total nightmare, he goes way beyond the usual level of stupidity and greed of politicians worldwide!!!

Aloges: I wouldn't be too sure about that, don't underestimate his nearly full-scale control of Italian TV, and if the opposition comes up with some cretin nobody knows....I guess we might have to deal with this criminal a lot longer than most of us would appreciate!

[Edited 2003-07-02 14:54:13]


I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineBobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1533 times:

Now all the Bush fans on this forum can reply in kind to the endless Bush-bashing posts by whiny european liberals?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Berlusconi is, IMHO, far worse. Europe might need a determined leader right now, but it certainly doesn't need somebody like this.

A little background:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3034600.stm



Cunning linguist
User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1521 times:

Berlusconi is a shame for the great country Italy, and for the next 6 month also a shame for Europe.

User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1514 times:

Berlusconi is a shame for the great country Italy, and for the next 6 month also a shame for Europe

I agree, I just heard in the radio (WDR 2) that he called a German EU representative a "Nazi who would fit perfect in a movie about a concentration camp". What an idiot!

Patrick


User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 6, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1504 times:

Correction to my post above: He meant EU representative Schulz, not Mr. Mueller who had critisized him in an interview, too!!

...now wait till Berlusconi reads this interview and let's see what niceties he has in mind for him...



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineVirgin744 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 919 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1497 times:

Yeah....And no sooner do they get in the Eurropean expansion minister says Turkey is not a democratic country, not technically part of Europe and basically in no uncertain words....Not welcome!

Well, it looks like a fine term for the Italians!

virgin744


User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1482 times:

Italian politics have always been a class of their own...

User currently offlineDaV From Italy, joined Jun 2001, 669 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1464 times:

wouldn't be too sure about that, don't underestimate his nearly full-scale control of Italian TV, and if the opposition comes up with some cretin nobody knows....

You know Italian politic better than some (actually the percentage that voted that idiot and it's sadly not that small) of mine fellow-countrymen!!  Smile
At least there's someone new to laugh at together with Bush...
What a shame...

DaV



Two monologues do not make a dialogue
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 10, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1448 times:

Well, what can I say? First days, first scandal! That man needs to buckle up and learn to shut up.


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineFloris From Netherlands, joined Jun 2003, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1440 times:

Funny how everybody only talks about Mr. Berlusconi's comments and not about the comment of Mr. Shultz, who started the discussion, by calling Mr. Berlusconi a mafiosi. He just got what he asked for in my opinion.

User currently offlineBobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1435 times:

I don't think mafiosi is too harsh, given Berlusconi's fondness for bribing judges, manipulating the media, and enacting legislation that gives himself immunity from imminent court cases...



Cunning linguist
User currently offlineJcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 38
Reply 13, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1435 times:

Totally agree, Floris. Of course, Berlusconi tends to get grilled in the European media because he tends to be right-wing, and so any slightly inflammatory comment that Berlusconi might make is widely critcized and written about. I happen to think that Berlusconi is doing a great job as the President of Council Members. Italians were fed up with the lack of economic growth, and Berlusconi has done wonders in that respect. Not only that but he has balanced the EU and the US as allies without really giving any one side the cold shoulder.


America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineBobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1428 times:

Of course, Berlusconi tends to get grilled in the European media because he tends to be right-wing

It may surprise you to learn that politics (in the world outside the USA, at least) doesn't all boil down to right vs. left.

I went to the effort of looking up a few details, because yes/no/yes/no/yes/no arguments just don't get us anywhere. Feel free to correct me if anything isn't accurate; but I think this is enough to convince most people that Berlusconi is not a fit leader.

--------------------------------
1. Berlusconi's first big business venture was a housing development in Milan. There was great suspicion over his financing (it came from Swiss companies that appeared to be Berlusconi-owned, which would have been illegal). The Italian finance police decided not to look any further; shortly afterwards, the chief investigator (who also allegedly had mafia ties) became a lawyer for Berlusconi, and subsequently a Forza Italia politican.

2. Mafiosi claimed that Berlusconi was distantly connected to killing of 2 anti-Mafia magistrates in 1992. Berlusconi, as ever, claimed this was a left-wing conspiracy to discredit him; the judge finally (after 14 months) dismissed a murder trial for lack of evidence but said:
"The links discovered between companies controlled by the Fininvest Group and individuals connected to Cosa Nostra constitute objective facts that render the reconstructions offered by several state's witnesses not entirely implausible or strange"

2. Berlusconi also hired Mangano, who was certainly in the mob, and dabbled in drug trafficking when not managing the stables. Mafiosi often dropped by, ostensibly for a chat with Mangano, when Berlusconi was on the premises.

3. AIUI he was previously convicted on three charges (bribery, illegal party financing, false accounting) but all three were overturned on appeal, due to the statute of limitations.

4. Bettino Craxi (former prime minister) effectively awarded his friend a monopoly on private television. This coincided with Berlusconi-run companies transferring $10m into Craxi's offshore bank accounts.

5. Berlusconi was charged with bribing a judge for a favourable outcome in a battle over control of a publishing group in 1991. Eventually he got out through the statute of limitations, although Previti and six other associates were convicted.

6. There were 2 further, separate investigations in 1996 into Mafia links; both were dropped for lack of evidence, despite repeated statements to police by Bernardo Provenzano's aide.

7. When Dell'Utri was tried for Mafia links (and specifically, laundering Mafia money through a Berlusconi business), Berlusconi claimed his right to avoid self-incriminating testimony, and consequently gave no evidence. Dell'Utri got a 2 year prison sentence.

8. Still nobody actually knows where Fininvest got all its money from, or how it was shuffled around, and Berlusconi has repeatedly refused to give details.

9. In 1986 he allegedly bribed judges to prevent a food company being taken over by a rival. Previti was accused too. Berlusconi blames it all on Prodi, and says that Craxi begged him to make dubious bids; he supposedly did so "for the good of Italy" rather than for the good of his own bank account. In this trial, Berlusconi exploited another handy loophole of Italian law that enabled him to make a single testimony without cross-examination.

Berlusconi still says all that is a left-wing conspiracy, but who could honestly say that people like Di Pietro are left-wing partisans?

10. He tried to get his trial for bribing judges moved to another court away from Milan; coincidentally using legislation that his party pushed through last November (forcing a change of court at a late date makes it much easier to hit the statute of limitations because all the evidence must be reheard). Thankfully, the Court of Cassation didn't accept this particular attempt.

11. The justice minister then repeatedly threatened to take action against magistrates/judges pursuing ill-defined "left-wing vendettas", IE those having the temerity to challeng Berlusconi's dodgy dealings.

12. Conveniently, Berlusconi-owned media channels have been repeatedly emphasising that civil servants have no right to investigate elected officials.

13. Strangely enough, Berlusconi's party recently rushed through more legislation, which seemed tailor-made to grant him (and Previti) immunity from their latest court case. Unfortunately, it wasn't passed quickly enough; Previti was convicted (despite another attempt at stalling the trial with a court change thanks to last november's legislation). However, Berlusconi is now immune.

14. In the last two years alone, 87 separate investigations into Berlusconi's business activities have been made by "Jacobin leftwing magistrates".
--------------------------------

If you're going to toe Berlusconi's line of "It's all a left-wing conspiracy", it would be a good idea for you to at least try to offer some evidence to back it up.

Funny how everybody only talks about Mr. Berlusconi's comments and not about the comment of Mr. Shultz, who started the discussion, by calling Mr. Berlusconi a mafiosi. He just got what he asked for in my opinion.
Floris, are the above facts enough to justify the "mafiosi" call? Yes or no?

Edit: I must apologise for monopolising the thread with posts like this. A large part of my job is, err, ending arguments. It eventually becomes a habit. Sorry  Wink/being sarcastic


[Edited 2003-07-03 03:22:53]


Cunning linguist
User currently offlineBobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1411 times:

Some more old news:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,494412,00.html

(sorry, I'm not normally a Guardian reader! It's just a bit difficult finding the right English-language news reports, and of course coverage is somewhat better in the UK than in the USA)



Cunning linguist
User currently offlineFloris From Netherlands, joined Jun 2003, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1405 times:

Bobrayner, although interesting, your analyses is completely beside the point. I am not discussing Berlusconi's past, or if he is capable of running a country. I might even agree with you that he is not.

I was just commenting on the fact that when a left wing politician insults him, and he insults back, the only thing that makes the news is his response and not the remark that triggered the response. This is typical for the extremely left wing European media. (And for the extremely left wing Euro parliament.)

It amazes me how people on the far right are always branded as Nazi's or extremists, where people on the far left can get away with almost anything. It is also amazing that in most European countries political parties on the far right are always declared illegal, where political parties on the far left are accepted. Take my country, The Netherlands. Last year, a right wing politician was shot dead by a left wing extremist. The shooter got an 18-year sentence, which means that he will be out on the streets again in 2014. (No, that is not fuzzy math, that is the way the system works unfortunately.) Can you image what would have happened if Nazi's had killed a left wing politician? It would have been headline news world wide!!

So I agree with Jcs17: it does not surprise me at all that everybody is coming down on Berlusconi, despite the fact that the German threw the first major insult.

By the way, the funny thing is: during the whole 20th century, more people were killed world wide due to left wing terrorism or communism than that were killed due to right wing terrorism or Nazism. My point is: both are equally disgusting yet the European media continuously make a difference.


User currently offlinePaulc From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1395 times:

So much for european unity - as a Brit, anything that causes discord within the eu is welcomed  Smile - it just goes to show what the members really think of each other.

The next 6 months are going to be a rough ride for the eu.



English First, British Second, european Never!
User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 18, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1394 times:

Quote Floris:
I was just commenting on the fact that when a left wing politician insults him, and he insults back, the only thing that makes the news is his response and not the remark that triggered the response. This is typical for the extremely left wing European media. (And for the extremely left wing Euro parliament.)

extremely left-wing Euro parliament?? Do you have any idea what exactly you are talking about?

Maybe, just maybe, in the distant future or so, it might occur to you that getting informed BEFORE posting utter nonsense like this does prove worthwhile...it usually keeps you from making a fool out of yourself just as jsc17 regularly does in his irresistable way of reducing the whole world in right-wing heroes and left-wing a$$holes.

Well done Floris, you found yourself a real friend!

and btw: I can assure you that the German people do NOT feel insulted by the so-called joke that little "testa di cazzo" was trying to crack.

Vaffanculo, Signore Berlusconi!!

Could any of our Italian members be so kind as to tell me if I spelled correctly, ma Italian is not really good...Thank you Big grin!



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 19, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1374 times:

Hi Andreas, good to hear from you again.  Big grin

It seems to me to be rather amusing all of this, since I can't think of a more politically disastrous thing to call a German politician than that which Berlusconi did. However, I think that Floris has a point here. If name calling is going to be reduced to national stereotypes, then calling Berlusconi a mafiosi is as stereotypical as you can get, and he pretty much responded in kind. Let's be honest here, in the pantheon (subtle joke there) of childish name calling, all Italians are mafiosi, and all Germans are Nazis. You would have thought that Berlusconi wouldn't have responded in kind, but sadly he did.

What does get me about it is the handwringing that inevitably goes on when something like this happens, that a grievous insult to the German/Italian/delete as appropriate people has occurred and that apologies are required in triplicate, when in truth most people react with raised eyebrows, think to themselves "what a prat" and move on. Of course, for numerous reasons, Berlusconi is unpopular across the European political classes, and so something like this is a perfect opportunity to over-react and therefore score some points.

See it in context. Are you really personally offended by this? If not, just stand by and watch the backlash by those who want to use the gaffe for their own ends.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 20, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1371 times:

Banco old chap! Good morning to England!!

Did you get over the shock to see Bawling Becky in immaculate Real white? Big grin

Now back to the topic:

Well if you read German newspapers and listen to commentators, nothing really bad happened. What we see here is a little diplomatic pushing and shoving, nothing serious really! Therefore it's the yellowpress that goes berserk, they did that when the Sun had Klinsmann on its frontpage wearing a Wehrmacht helmet during EC 1996 (who won that one....hmmm...ah yes Germany!!!), and when Bild goes ballistic, you know it's not that bad really!!

Offended by that little man...come on, I couldn't care less, on the other hand I don't find the whole ballyhoo that follows THAT much entertaining, I've seen it too often.

Personally I would love to see more politicians who give a crap about political correctness and call their opponents an asshole if they think he behaves like one. Just imagine Bush and Schroeder, locked into a little room in Evian, screaming at each other, calling each other names I wouldn't dare to post here...after 10 minutes both would be rolling on the floor laughing their a$$es off...and all would be ok again. Instead look at the incredible mess diplomatic protocol has caused!!

As for Floris: I did answer to his ridiculous branding of the Euro parliament, I'm just tired of this useless rightwing-leftwing name calling, that seems to be so incredibly popular in the USA, as for the rest of his post, well see above, we are not so far apart from each other!



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineTurin_airport From Italy, joined Oct 2001, 278 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1369 times:

Yes Andreas, you spelled quite right. The only think is that "signore" in front of a surname is usually written "Signor", without the "e".

Jcs17 and Floris, let me explain what's going on in Italy these days and you will understand that it's not a matter of left and right, but, simply, of democracy.

Berlusconi is not a politician, he is a businessman and, by far, the richest man in Italy.
His history began in the late 70s when he established the first private Italian TV network, being able to do this thanks to the lack of laws that could regulate that business, and to his friendship whit some of the most powerful politicians of those time (one for all, Bettino Craxy). His network grew up during all the 80s, and his 3 TV channels began as popular as the 3 State TV channels, giving to him half of the entire TV business in Italy. Despite this abnormal concentration of power, thanks to his politician friends, for 15 years no law were made by the Parliament to set up rules to manage the situation. Only in 1990 a law was made that let Berlusconi to keep for himself all his 3 channels.
It seems that everything was good for him at that time, but all changed 2 years later, when the greatest scandal of Italian history, the so called "Tangentopoli", (Bribesville), exploded in Milan. For the first time judges started an enquiry about the "bribes policy" between politicians an entrepreneurs. The old parties that used to rule the country for almost 40 years were completely destroyed by this enquiry, and Berlusconi friends too.
Now, without any political cover, Berlusconi feared that some kind of new law could take away one of his channel, and, being involved in Tangetopoli as well, that the some judge could put him in jail.
What he did was to build a completely new party (Forza Italia), filled with his employees, his lawyers, and some old politician.
Thanks to the incredible power he had (3 TV channels, several newspapers and magazines, an endless amount of money) he won the elections in 1993 together with the ex fascist party and the LegaNord party, xenofobe and racist; his first presidency ended 10 months later because the LegaNord left the coalition.
In 2001 he won again (after 5 years of a center-left government), using his media to make unbelievable promises he knew he could not satisfy.
During these 2 years he made 4 laws to help himself to escape the judgment by the judges that were inquiring on his fishy affairs (laws made by deputies that are his lawyers, too, at the same time!), and occupied the Italian State TV, throwing out the journalist that criticize him in the past (the result is that is almost impossible to have any kind of information not controlled by him).
I could add many other thing (and if somebody want, I'll do) but I think that this can gives you an idea of the situation.

I repeat, this is not about right and left, we are talking about a man that is trying to destroy the democratic rules of my country, and I'm sure that none of you could bear to have a president like him, in your country.

T_a


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 22, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1365 times:

It's Becks, not Becky, and everyone thinks it'll be good for him. Anyway, I couldn't care less.

As for newspaper reaction, yes, I'm aware of Bild, and I'm not surprised that they are the ones to scream blue murder about the remarks. Interestingly, though when the Mirror (not the Sun this time) did the whole "For you the Championship is over, Fritz" thing in '96, the harshest criticism came from here rather than Germany. In the end they had to back down and apologise in the face of a furious response from their own readers who rang in complaining that this was a football tournament for Christ's sake, and the front page was utterly inappropriate. The thing about that is that the Mirror is quite a political paper, and they misjudged their own readership. Had the Sun done it, it probably wouldn't have had such a reaction.

But all tabloids love to get up a righteous anger about these things, so I'm not remotely surprised that the same is happening here. What I do think is that it is true that that the initial insult to Berlusconi has not really been mentioned, and while his response was um, shall we say unfortunate, there has been little coverage of the provocation, which was equally childish.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7957 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1364 times:

Floris:

Funny how everybody only talks about Mr. Berlusconi's comments and not about the comment of Mr. Shultz, who started the discussion, by calling Mr. Berlusconi a mafiosi.

Could you please provide a link? As far as I know Schulz did not call Berlusconi a mafiosi.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 24, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1359 times:

Afaik Mr. Schulz did attack another member of the Italian government, Umberto Bossi, for his great idea to use artillery to fend off boats filled with refugees!!! And he talked about a the new law that grants immunity to Berlusconi.

I do think the whole affair is totally useless but I find it very annoying that this man looses his composure so fast, and is not able to counterattack using intelligent rhethorics!


btw I just heard Mr. Berlusconi will personally call Chancellor Schroeder. Don't these guys have important things to do????



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
25 Post contains images Andreas : Banco, if I look at the guy's hairdo, I find Becky much more appropriate. Ok it was the mirror, and I remember the whole affair quite well, indeed it
26 Post contains images Banco : Curious, Andreas. I can't see any reference to him being called a mafiosi, I just accepted the word of whoever it was that said that was the provocati
27 Andreas : Banco, I just read the press review on Spiegel online, and Mr. Berlusconi does really get a bad press, no matter what newspaper. The only thing I foun
28 Post contains images Turin_airport : As far as I know Schulz didn't call Berlusconi "mafioso", but made some provocative questions about Berlusconi problems with the Italian justice. Mayb
29 Post contains images Udo : Jcs17, Probably you should first try to collect some information on Mr. Berlusconi before defending him. That guy is right now introducing a law that
30 DaV : I happen to think that Berlusconi is doing a great job as the President of Council Members. Italians were fed up with the lack of economic growth, and
31 Andreas : Finally here it is, a source that brings us the statements of Mr. Schulz, unfortunately in German and only excerpts, but a reliable source nonetheless
32 Post contains links Stratofish : "Psychiatrists of the world unite and cure, please!!!!" Before that: Italian voters unite and drive this man out of office ASAP, please!!! Another nic
33 Post contains images Bobrayner : A quick translation of the above article... (sorry, my German is even worse than my English ) --------------- Schulz's questioning of Berlusconi: The
34 Post contains links and images Bobrayner : It amazes me how people on the far right are always branded as Nazi's or extremists, where people on the far left can get away with almost anything. I
35 Andreas : WOW!!! If I look at the reactions in other EU countries, I come to think that we here in Germany do have the lowest level of caring about the whole th
36 Floris : "getting informed BEFORE posting utter nonsense like this does prove worthwhile... it usually keeps you from making a fool out of yourself just as jsc
37 Post contains images Bobrayner : Yes. Enough with the metadebate already Funny how everybody only talks about Mr. Berlusconi's comments and not about the comment of Mr. Shultz, who st
38 Bobrayner : Another Berlusconi quote... "We must be aware of the superiority of our civilisation, a system that has guaranteed well-being, respect for human right
39 Floris : Bobrayner, again I fail to see what that has to do with the current discussion. By the way, too bad he took back his comment on Islam, because he was
40 Floris : By the way, to prevent any misunderstanding: YES, I AGREE: Berlusconi should not be head of the EU, he shouldn't even be Italian prime minister. He la
41 Andreas : Oh Floris...again, read before falling into a rage: I'm talking about your assessment of the European parliament ONLY!!!! Does that reach you somehow?
42 Post contains images NoUFO : Berlusconi later called it an "ironic joke". Laughable, he should have known that a German wouldn't get an "ironic joke." (On second thoughts: The who
43 Post contains images Bobrayner : Don't mention the war!
44 Post contains links Turin_airport : If Berlusconi is really such a joker, what's next? Hey, the man is a professional: he started his career as a singer on boats and even now he's an imp
45 Racko : Berlusconi has called the German chancellor Gerhard Schröder and has expressed his regret about the choice of this expression and comparison. It seem
46 Floris : Andreas, please read your own post again and tell me who is "falling in a rage". Please man, get a live. It is not healthy to get so upset if people d
47 CrewChief32 : As a sidenote, what is wrong with Umberto Bossi`s idea of using artillery to keep boats filled with "refugees" off the coast????? Most of them are cri
48 DaV : CC32, he doesn't intend to harm the criminals, but poor people who paid 5000$/€ or more to take a fatiscent boat from Iraq, Bangladesh or Pakistan a
49 Bobrayner : As a sidenote, what is wrong with Umberto Bossi`s idea of using artillery to keep boats filled with "refugees" off the coast????? Because it's general
50 Post contains links Schoenorama : A little something to keep this discussing going... "Berlusconi denies apologising for Nazi jibe" http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3044866.stm Thanks
51 DaV : Yes, mentioned today also on Corriere della Sera and La Repubblica... what a moron... DaV
52 F.pier : I am Italian and I have to confess that in 1994 I voted for Berlusconi. Then, I realized what sort of person was him and I never voted for him anymore
53 Andreas : What the hell is going here?????????? This guy and his cronies must be totally crazy now: After his ridiculous statement in front of the EU parliament
54 Post contains links Banco : The first rule of holes, is when in one stop digging. Berlusconi apparently doesn't know this rule. A British MEP writes regularly in the Daily Telegr
55 Post contains images Andreas : Not bad! Recalling the reactions in German press last week, it seems that Schroeder and, even more so, Fischer did have a clear understanding of how s
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