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Belgian Woman Strip Searched By US Immigration  
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3215 times:

Noelle Lhoist, a 48 year old Belgian tourist, was detained for 15 hours, handcuffed, strip searched and deported by US Immigration officers because she was traveling on a valid passport that was not machine readable.

Ms. Lhoist was physically separated from her 3 children aged 13, 17 and 18 and led away in handcuffs in front of them when she arrived at Los Angeles on June 22. She was then imprisoned in a cell for 5 hours before authorities notified the children about the reasons for her arrest. She was subsequently deported to Belgium without the children after 15 hours of interrogation.

The US has instituted new rules for holders of Belgian passports from May 15 that requires that they be machine-readable in order to enter the United States on the Visa Waiver Program. The original deadline for this was October 1 when it goes into affect for all other countries, but Belgium was singled out for earlier action in retribution for a Belgian court admitting but subsequently dismissing charges against US Army General Tommy Franks.

The US State Department defends the actions taken against Ms. Lhoist by saying that they continue to have concerns about how passports are issued in Belgium. Ms. Lhoist was subsequently issued a US Visa by the embassy in Brussels and returned to Los Angeles to rejoin her children after 12 days.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-belgian5jul05,1,4068950.story

86 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8617 posts, RR: 43
Reply 1, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3199 times:

"The original deadline for this was October 1 when it goes into affect for all other countries, but Belgium was singled out for earlier action in retribution for a Belgian court admitting but subsequently dismissing charges against US Army General Tommy Franks."

What does one have to do with each other, except a great way of showing off whom "Amurrahca" doesn't like anymore? If there's nothing more to the story, this is one more thing that could easily make people more opposed to the US.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3187 times:

The US has instituted new rules for holders of Belgian passports from May 15 that requires that they be machine-readable in order to enter the United States on the Visa Waiver Program.

When I am traveling to the USA (or to any other country in this world), I make sure that my passport will get accepted.

Patrick


User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3171 times:

Well said Patrick.
About time immigration officials got tougher (and not just in the US) about who they let in and who gets turned back.
Far too many scum get into countries on false papers that are made to look old and worn so the differences in facial features won't arouse suspicion (people change over time don't they? and if you've been through a rough perion (shown by a worn passport) it's all the more likely).



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8617 posts, RR: 43
Reply 4, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3156 times:

Jeroen, it was about a passport that couldn't be read by a machine. How would you like it when some guy said "I don't like you plastic passport." and sent you to a cell after being handcuffed in front of your children? Would you think "Good thing they don't let scum like me in."?


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineJAL777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3137 times:

Aloges... it was an old passport. US law states that you cannot have an old passport upon entering the US if you are Belgian. If you don't like the law, then don't come.

The "strip-search" was uncalled for, but I bet there's more to this story then what was told in this article.


User currently offlineBobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3122 times:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/07/05/state1836EDT0058.DTL

LOS ANGELES (AP) -- A Belgian woman traveling with her family arrived at Los Angeles International Airport last month for a six-week vacation in Southern California. Instead, she was held 15 hours, handcuffed, strip searched, fingerprinted and sent back to Brussels.
Her alleged crime was violating a new rule for travel to the United States.

"I'm not used to crying, but my tears were just coming and coming," said Noelle Lhoist, 49. "I wasn't allowed to stand, use the phone or speak. I couldn't write anything because they wouldn't give me a pen."

Under homeland security laws passed after Sept.11, foreign visitors must have newer, machine-readable passports that are encoded with digital information and cannot be easily counterfeited.

The rule goes into effect Oct. 1 for 26 countries but kicked in May 15 for Belgians because of concerns by Atty. Gen. John Ashcroft that their passports could be faked, said Stuart Patt, spokesman for the State Department's Bureau of Consular Affairs in Washington.

That was news to Lhoist, whose passport was issued in 2000 and was not machine-readable. Officials at Swiss International Air Lines, formerly known as Swissair, had accepted her travel documents in Zurich without hesitation for the flight to Los Angeles, she said.

Swiss airline officials at LAX said other visitors have been denied entry to the United States since the rule was enacted but couldn't say how many.

After spending $700 for a new ticket and obtaining a different visa, Lhoist returned to Los Angeles and joined her companion and her three children for a vacation in San Diego.

She said the harrowing experience hadn't soured her opinion of the United States.

"I love Americans and the way they think and their way of doing things." she said. "This trip has just been a bad experience."


Now, rules may well be rules, and refusing entry is not so unreasonable; it's a shame that she didn't know a 3-year-old passport wasn't good enough.

But stripsearching? Detaining her for 15 hours in conditions like this?
"I wasn't allowed to stand, use the phone or speak. I couldn't write anything because they wouldn't give me a pen."

Don't you think that's just a little bit drastic? What kind of uproar would you get in the media if this happened to a US citizen coming to an Old European country for a family holiday, who failed to bring the right piece of paper?



Cunning linguist
User currently offlineJAL777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3119 times:

The whole fiasco was uncalled for, but we don't know the whole story. I've worked at airports in customs areas before and you wouldn't believe how downright violent some people will get when pulled aside for questioning or denied entry. Remeber, we only heard one side of the story here. After working customer service for many years, I don't believe much of it.

We once had a gentleman (?) arriving from Jamaica who was set aside for questioning. I stayed in the customs office becuase he was our last passenger. Long story short, when he was told he would have to be deported back to Jamaica, he got so violent that the officer had no choice but to mace and arrest him. Therefore, when I read stories like this, I take them with a grain of salt... I haven't heard the other side of the story yet.


User currently offlineRojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2431 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3115 times:

JAL777 said:
"Aloges... it was an old passport. US law states that you cannot have an old passport upon entering the US if you are Belgian. If you don't like the law, then don't come"
----------

How do you know it was an old passport?? Passports that are not machine readable don't have to be old. When you get a passport from an embassy of your country because you live far away from it most of them are not machine readable. The technology to make them is expensive and most of the embassy's don't justify the expense for machine readable passports because they get very few applications...

The US Law doesn't state that you can't have an old passport upon entering the US if you are Belgian, it states that your passport has to be machine readable in order to use the Visa Waiver Program to enter the US and if not, you have to get a machine readable visa from a US Embassy of Consulate. But the deadline was October 1st for all VWP countries and the responsible here was the airline that aloud the Belgian national to travel on a non machine readable passport, assuming that the INS (I don't remember their new name) did send a new communication with the new deadline for Belgian citizens.

What I will like to know is if the airline she flew had this new communication and if they did actually cover the expenses from deportation, the fines from the INS and apologize to the lady for letting her fly to the US without the proper documents.
Just my two cents...


User currently offlineRojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2431 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3106 times:

Bobrayner:

Thanks for the new link, far more detailed...


User currently offlineJAL777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3102 times:

Documents is not the responsibility of the airline... that's your responsibility.

User currently offlineJcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 40
Reply 11, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3103 times:

Cry me a river. Stuff like this supposedly happens all the time in EU countries (including Britain). They do things like this to prevent illegal entry and keep contraband and terrorists out of the country. The woman's passport was not up to date, therefore they had a reason to be suspicious.


America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineRojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2431 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3099 times:

JAL777

It is the responsibility of the airline to "verify" that you are traveling with the proper documents, see it for yourself:

* non-compliance with entry requirements result in fines
varying between USD 2,000 and USD 3,000 per passenger
and either deportation or indefinite delay for passenger
at point of entry (detention costs at carrier's expense);

------------------
National BELGIUM (BE)
Destination U.S.A. (US)
ALSO CHECK DESTINATION INFORMATION BELOW

U.S.A. (US)

Passport required (must be valid at time of entry; passenger
may be authorized to stay up to 6 months beyond the expiry date
of the passport; for validity see: For details, click here - item 2).

Visa not required if travelling under the U.S. Visa Waiver
Permanent Program and following conditions are met
(EFFECTIVE May 15, 2003 a machine-readable passport must be
presented):

Passenger:
- travels for holiday or business purposes only; and
- will stay up to 90 days or less (see note below); and
- arrives on a carrier that has signed agreement I-775
with the U.S. Immigration (see: For details, click here for
a full list); and
- holds a signed Form I-94W (Visa Waiver arrival/departure
form issued either by a carrier having signed the agreement
I-775 or by a travel agency); a separate form must be
filled in for each child included in parents' passport; and
- holds onward/return ticket (or electronic ticket record or
return passages) with a final destination to a country other
than Canada, Mexico or countries/islands situated in or
bordering the Caribbean sea, unless passenger holds proof of
residence in such country/islands in which case onward/return
ticket to that country accepted. Ticket validity is
considered 1 year regardless of fare type; and
- is a non-immigrant; and
- waives the right to protest any action for deportation.

Deportation will follow if Immigration Officer determines that
passenger is inadmissible.
Passenger can make side trips to Canada, Mexico or Caribbean
countries/islands provided first entering the U.S.A. on a
carrier participating in the V.W.P.P. and provided all other
conditions of the V.W.P.P. are met.
Total stay in the U.S.A. not to exceed 90 days. No additional
time is given (extension) based on the departure to contiguous
territory. Passenger is admitted for up to a 90-day period and
a specific date of departure is given on the Form I-94.

* If coming directly from Guam or Virgin Isl: pre-inspection by
the USA Immigration and Naturalization Services (INS) will
have taken place prior to embarkation, when passengers are
required to provide proof of their legal right to enter
U.S.A.
If coming directly from Puerto Rico: pre-inspection may take
place by INS prior to embarkation, when passengers are
required to provide their documents and proof of their legal
right to enter U.S.A.;
* if not holding tickets and documents required for return/
onward destination entry may be refused and deportation
may follow. This depends on the Immigration Authorities;
* non-compliance with entry requirements result in fines
varying between USD 2,000 and USD 3,000 per passenger
and either deportation or indefinite delay for passenger
at point of entry (detention costs at carrier's expense);
* fines for incomplete/inaccurate Form I-94, I-94T or I-94W
are USD 1,000.- per passenger;
* for valid visas in an expired passport, see For details, click here
- Item 10;
* minors: for specific information see: For details, click here -
Item 11 and For details, click here - Items 2, 3 and 4.




User currently offlineFDXmech From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3251 posts, RR: 35
Reply 13, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3080 times:

>>>Don't you think that's just a little bit drastic? What kind of uproar would you get in the media if this happened to a US citizen coming to an Old European country for a family holiday, who failed to bring the right piece of paper?<<<

Since 9/11, there have been publicized cases of American little old ladies being strip searched as well. That's is of little consolation to this women but she's not alone.



You're only as good as your last departure.
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3075 times:

Cry me a river. Stuff like this supposedly happens all the time in EU countries (including Britain).

Gee, Jcs, isn't the U.S. supposed to be better than everyone else? You don't have a problem against this women being strip-searched, and held for 15 HOURS? What kind of sadist are you, in the name of "national security"? If this had been your redneck mom in another country, you'd be crying bloody murder.

The woman's passport was not up to date, therefore they had a reason to be suspicious.

So naturally, it's OK to impose KGB-like tactic in holding her for hours and stripping her of her clothes and dignity, right? You're really out there, Jcs.

Since 9/11, there have been publicized cases of American little old ladies being strip searched as well.

When I saw your name FDXmech, I KNEW you'd excuse it by using 9/11 as a crutch. EVERYTHING in your scared, blinded, reactionary mind is justified by 9/11. You're really a sorry figure, my friend.


User currently offlineFDXmech From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3251 posts, RR: 35
Reply 15, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3069 times:

Alpha, please put on your thinking cap.

For those slightly more objective, my response meant that it wasn't directed at this Belgian women because of her nationality (I hope), but since 9/11 you hear about such occurances more and more to other Americans as well.



You're only as good as your last departure.
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3066 times:

... but since 9/11 you hear about such occurances more and more to other Americans as well.

I haven't heard of any. Show me the stories. And do you justify EVERYHTING based on 9/11? Man, you ARE scared.


User currently offlineFDXmech From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3251 posts, RR: 35
Reply 17, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3066 times:

Also, I read my original post and no where did I excuse this action.

Alpha, relax dude, have a nice long cold one.



You're only as good as your last departure.
User currently offlineCptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3219 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3056 times:

The Belgian lady probably waffled when asked questions by officials...Jack


all best; jack
User currently offlineBuckfifty From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1316 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3032 times:

Tougher security is one thing, Americans flexing political muscle is another. One of the reasons why I think this administration is even worse than the last one. Not in recent memory, since the Reagan era, do I remember seeing such overt political power plays from the American government. 9/11 is one thing, but it seems that the Bush administration is squeezing it for all it's worth.

If you are so inclined to believe that Belgian passports just so happens to be much more easily counterfeited than most of the other passports out there, c'est la vie.


User currently offlineCharleslp From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 336 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3024 times:

"Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder"

'Nuff said.


User currently offlineBobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3018 times:

Of 9/11...

Forging a Belgian passport is no more easy or difficult than forging most other passports, by the look of it. (Disclaimer: I am not a forger).

So, presumably, fraudulently applying for a Belgian passport is the method that we're most worried about. I can assure you that it would require the patience of a saint. Any would-be terrorist would die of boredom long before completing all the required forms and formalities, I suspect.  Smile

The VWP boils down to concerns about illegal immigrants, and absconsion rates. If you cite the risk of terrorism as a reason to treat somebody like this for not having a VWP-eligible passport like the rest of their family, then why do certain other countries (in which it is rather easier to fraudulently obtain a passport) stay in the VWP?



Cunning linguist
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3008 times:

Can you imagine if this happened to an American woman in, say, France?

The usual posse of right wing nitwits would be frothing at the mouth as they choke on their brie and stella artois.

"When I am traveling to the USA (or to any other country in this world), I make sure that my passport will get accepted.

Patrick"

I'm sure you have no clue of what that entails. And neither do your supporters on this site. What do you do? Take your passport to the Ministry of Passport Acceptance at the EU? What a load of BS. I sometimes wonder if some of the folks on here have half a brain.

The truth is that when you get a VALID passport from the passport office in your country (a country with which the United States has perfectly good relationships with) you assume that there is a reciprocity and an agreement of acceptance.


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8617 posts, RR: 43
Reply 23, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2951 times:

JAL777 said: "If you don't like the law, then don't come."

If I had plans to visit your country, I'd be reconsidering it now since I don't want to risk being treated like a terrorist for bringing a passport that Ashcroft doesn't like. And if that same man thinks that revenue from tourism and other travel is a burden, I'll certainly not want to drive him crazy by spending my money in his country.

Furthermore, I hope you know that things like these don't make people like the US more. Her passport was valid, she was on a vacation with her family (that was let in and could identify the own mother), she was from the country where NATO is based, but her only fault was being from a country that has judges that didn't dump charges against Tommy Franks. If that's bad enough to award her such treatment, and also me, from October 1st, I'm sure less people will want to travel to the US.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29705 posts, RR: 59
Reply 24, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2946 times:

The don't strip search without cause or for kicks.

We only have half the story here.

Like JAL777 said in his earlier post. It is amazing how angry some people can get.

Not say that she was, but just something to consider.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
25 Alpha 1 : The don't strip search without cause or for kicks. We only have half the story here. Amazing, L-188, as anti-government as you are-a common trait in A
26 L-188 : Alpha 1 It is not that I trust the government. It is just I figure strip searching is a nasty job in most cases, and a fed probably would prefer not t
27 Srbmod : Looks like LAX is fast becoming the new "Deportland". In a way, it looks like Belgium is being singled out amongst European nations by the US. If the
28 Flyboy36y : What the hell is wrong wirth this country? What is wrong with America??? I was also "detained" by INS for 15 minutes (and then US Customs for 45). The
29 Pacificjourney : Good for you Flyboy36y ! One of these arseholes with a uniform once asked me, "How are you supporting yourself in Japan ?". Answer, "None of your fuck
30 JAL777 : One of these arseholes with a uniform once asked me, "How are you supporting yourself in Japan ?". That's a very common question and has been asked of
31 Pacificjourney : The only immigration service which has the right to ask what I do in Japan is Japan's. US immigration may quite rightly ask me about my stay in the US
32 Artsyman : The problem with threads like this is that this sort of thing while totally out of order happens like once out of the millions and millions of passeng
33 JAL777 : The only immigration service which has the right to ask what I do in Japan is Japan's. Wrong. Immigration services have a right to ask what you do or
34 Bobrayner : The only immigration service which has the right to ask what I do in Japan is Japan's. US immigration may quite rightly ask me about my stay in the US
35 Delta-flyer : .... this administration is even worse than the last one. That may be true, but how would you know that from an employee of the Customs and Imigration
36 Post contains images Teva : In the reply 6, I have seen this very interesting sentence: "The rule goes into effect Oct. 1 for 26 countries but kicked in May 15 for Belgians becau
37 Pacificjourney : If you guys want to give some power-crazed idiot with three weeks training and a sad uniform a whole lot of personal infornation which they are NOT en
38 N951U : What the hell is wrong wirth this country? What is wrong with America??? I was also "detained" by INS for 15 minutes (and then US Customs for 45). Th
39 Buckfifty : That may be true, but how would you know that from an employee of the Customs and Imigration? He may have been employed there for 25 years! From the w
40 CHRISBA777ER : whilst i agree that this case is a little heavy and stupid, (on facts reported), im glad there is such tight security - id rather have this than some
41 Flyboy36y : Jason, You assume too much. My other bags were never opened. While I'm not saying I should not have had the alcohol, I honestly did not know I could n
42 N79969 : If it turns out this incident was the product of pure ineptitude or wrongdoing, then I hope those responsible are punished. I don't understand all of
43 Flyboy36y : N79969, I don't think it is INS buisness why I bought tickets to JFK via MIA any more tha it is ANY other gov't agencys buisness if I was to go to MIA
44 N79969 : Flyboy36y, I disagree. INS is the country's first line of defense. They are federal law enforcement agents and work in conjunction with other agencies
45 B747-437B : Just because a person is a US citizen does not automatically mean that individual could not be a threat to this country. US citizens have absolute rig
46 N79969 : I did not say they are free to detain US citizens ad infinitum. Asking questions does not equal detention. Not even during a traffic stop. [Edited 200
47 B747-437B : Asking questions does not equal detention. Not even during a traffic stop. Not in itself, but asking questions when it is not clear that the target of
48 Alpha 1 : Asking questions does not equal detention. Not even during a traffic stop. 15 Hours equals detention, I would imagine.
49 Post contains images Bobrayner : N79969, Question: Does every member of the EU use identical procedures and standards for issuing passports? Or do they vary country-by-country? There
50 N79969 : -437B, That is probably close to correct (there are many nuances in this area of the law) but I don't see the point you are trying to make. They asked
51 Teva : Bobrayner, I agree with you that you may have some differences in the way passports are delivered. However, the document itself is common to all the E
52 Manni : Are all US passports machine readable? If not the EU should retaliate in a similar way and impose strict regulations concerning passport documentation
53 Post contains images Alpha 1 : Manni, in this case, this isn't George Bush's fault. It's the fault of some oversealous INS officials who think they have the right to d whatever the
54 B747-437B : I don't think Ashcroft in this case, nor Bush, put in the new rules that people should be treated like that. Actually, these policies are new provisio
55 Alpha 1 : Sean, even with that provision of being held indefinitely-that being another fear tactic brought to you by Ashcroft-common sense should rule WHEN some
56 Bobrayner : However, the document itself is common to all the EU countries Broadly, yes. But there's some scope for variation, even within each country. Example 1
57 N79969 : I would like to know what exactly occured. I recall a few months ago there was a thread about a man being arrested for simply wearing an anti-war t-sh
58 Artsyman : Australian Immigration Officer: Have you been convicted of a felony? British Visitor: Is that still a requirement? ****************** Fantastic !@!
59 Post contains images Alpha 1 : N79669, that was funny stuff. I needed the laugh. Thanks!
60 Udo : Probably her face looked like OBL's??? Wow, did the US immigration take over the former GDR methods? But only one of many reports. Congratulations, da
61 Post contains images OO-AOG : "Land of Free". Yeah, sure . We, Belgians, citizens of the third world, are not welcomed anymore. I have an old passport (not computer readable), Belg
62 Post contains images L-188 : Actually the INS doesn't exist. They changed their name when they where rolled into the Department of Homeland Security. Don't remember what the new n
63 B747-437B : Don't remember what the new name is, off the top of my head. Bureau of Citizenship Services.
64 NJTurnpike : It's now the BCIS - Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services. (www.immigration.gov or www.bcis.gov)
65 N79969 : Replies 60 and 61 are the type of over-the-top whining I am talking about. What occurred was an aberration of some kind and we do not know all of the
66 EWRvirgin : The US Law doesn't state that you can't have an old passport upon entering the US if you are Belgian, it states that your passport has to be machine r
67 Manni : Alpha1, I wasn't giving a reply to this paricular case involving the Belgian lady in LAX. I should have made myself more clear. I was responding to th
68 MD-90 : What's up with this? Anyone else notice the ads for passports to the right of this thread?
69 Udo : Reply 65 obviously tries to indicate something which was not expressed in reply 60. 'European look' or 'less European look' is way off topic from what
70 OO-AOG : N79969 (reply65) Such ridiculous remarks do not add to the discussion of what went wrong here Maybe my post is ridiculous to your eyes N79969, but I a
71 B747forlife : SRBMOD - Homeland Security is threatening not only our freedoms here in the US, but also the rights of those of other nations to travel here. As far a
72 Post contains links Marcus : As a Mexican you no longer get a US visa stamped on your passport......you get a separate card called a "laser visa"........when travelling to the US
73 N79969 : OO-AOG, No, our immigration policy is not "KGB" style...it is not a fact. It is simply your over-exaggerated opinion. That your summer plans are incon
74 Post contains images L-188 : You noticed that too MD-90? I wonder if Johan but in some new intellegence for the advertisement. If he did, it seems to be working
75 Flight152 : Belgium consulate in Geneva can't issue a new one before 3 months and the US Bern embassy can't give me a visa before September ... meaning that I can
76 Post contains images B747skipper : As a crewmember having constantly dealt with international travel in many parts of the world, I have to admit that my opinion of (1) British Customs,
77 FSPilot747 : One of the best damn posts I've read on here yet, B747skipper. Where is the line drawn between "checking passengers" and "having fun screwing with for
78 Udo : It's right traveling to the US is a privilege. But it's also a privilege of every single tourist to decide where to go. And if US immigration barriers
79 B747skipper : Sadly enough, in the good old days, I spoke to many foreign tourists who did travel to the USA - the 1960s and 1970s... All were not only impressed by
80 Udo : There's a lot of left, the people are still nice and friendly, the country is still great. But you have to pass all the barriers before that which obv
81 OO-AOG : N79969 Perhaps I misinterpreted your remarks, but you seem to imply that Belgians (people from the heart of civilied Europe) should not be subject to
82 N79969 : I think the bottom line is that US immigration messes up once in a while. There are aberrations in any large program. My reply is "big deal." This is
83 Alpha 1 : My reply is "big deal." Easy to say when you weren't handcuffed; easy to say when you weren't strip-searched and stripped of all dignity; easy to say
84 N79969 : Alpha 1, Are you always in search of an argument? I don't think you said anything different than I did. If you read last my last reply and several of
85 Alpha 1 : Yes, you said it should be investigated-I saw that. But to say it's not a "big deal" is not taking it as seriously as it should be. It's a very big de
86 OO-AOG : If the Belgians need to reschedule their Arizona vacations from the summer to fall, I say big deal. (Actually Phoenix is far nicer in the fall anyway)
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