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The Expos - Baseball Club Anyone?  
User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Posted (11 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1088 times:

I love baseball, the sport. I often go to the park, in front of my home, to watch the young kids play. What I really appreciate is the level of concentration these 12 years-old kids have to show. That's why I'd like to see my son play the game, hoping that the required concentration will also find its way to school. Well, maybe I'm just dreaming, but it couldn't hurt...

I hate baseball, the industry. The Montréal Expos, especially since 1978, were always a "decent" club. But Montréal's fans, disgusted by the way baseball is run, have stopped supporting the club. They don't believe, rightfully so IMHO, that Montréal has a fair chance to win anything and it's always going to be the BIG clubs that are going to win. Why can't baseball be run like the NFL, where clubs like Green Bay or Tampa have decent shots at winning?

So the Expos are going to leave Montréal. Apparently Washington, Portland and North Virginia (around Norfolk I guess, but don't quote me on that), have filled in the rank to get this very decent club (playing for .527 to this day. In the NL central division, we'd be tied for first place). Now the NBL says that they are considering locating the Expos in San Juan, Puerto Rico.

Baseball, the industry, is sick.


Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAirworthy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1084 times:

Yeah Baseball is hurting badly in the commercial market.

But Commisioner Bud Selig is really trying to make it better. With interleague play, more revenue sharing, and better marketing baseball is making a comeback with the public.

I like baseball the game, because anyone can play it. You don't have to be 7' tall and 300 lbs to be a great player. You can be just a regular person and still make the Hall of Fame.


User currently onlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6552 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (11 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1077 times:

I say move the Expos to Portland. It's a beautiful area and they deserve to have 2 pro sports teams. Moving the team to D.C would be odd since the Orioles are really not that far away from the D.C metro.

Portland Expos certainly sounds better than San Juan Expos as well.


Steve in New Orleans


User currently offlineRNOcommctr From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 827 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (11 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1074 times:

I think Portland wouldn't be a real strong baseball market. Personally, I would love to see Mexico City get a team.


I'm sorry, ma'am, I don't work for the airline.
User currently offlineJcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 4, posted (11 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1070 times:

Moving the team to D.C would be odd since the Orioles are really not that far away from the D.C metro.

Less than 20% of the attendance for Orioles games draws from the Washington D.C. area. Right now my cousin is serving as a legal advisor for a group that is seeking to bring the Expos or an expansion team to the Washington area. He says that there is a pretty good chance that the area will get a team within five years.

Portland would be a pretty weak baseball market. If the Expos do not move to Northern Virginia, I would like them to consider going to San Juan, although I suspect revenues there wouldnt be too great.



America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineVonRichtofen From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 4627 posts, RR: 36
Reply 5, posted (11 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1064 times:

Well the name "Expos" won't really work for Portland, unless they've had an Expo there before.


Word
User currently offlineZrb2 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 896 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1059 times:

There are so many articles and studies out there that prove the Wash DC area deserves the team and will support it. The high income area of Northern Virginia means Arlington/Alexandria which is just across the river from DC (Not Norfolk area).
The Ravens and Redskins thrive in their own markets, a DC baseball team would also thrive and would not ruin the Orioles. Their drop in attendance in recent years is due to poor club. If they're good again, they will still sellout regardless of a Washington team.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29795 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1057 times:

Well would baseball have been better off if they had picked out the owner of the Texas Rangers to become commissioner instead of Selig?


It is reported that he was interesting in the job.




OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1055 times:

Well would baseball have been better off if they had picked out the owner of the Texas Rangers to become commissioner instead of Selig?

For baseball, I don't know. But the world would probably be a safer place to live.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1054 times:

Red Selig is NOT trying to make the game better. He is fucking it up. He has taken pro sports BEST all-star game and turned it into the NFL's Pro Bowl. A complete joke.

Baseball the industry is not sick, but rather certain owners/management. I understand that its hard for all teams to compete against the deep pockets of the Yankees, Braves, Dodgers, Red Sox and Mets (who for 120 million bought themselves last place) etc, but when people start to say that baseball as a whole has ruined things like the Expos, I take exception to that. You cannot just blame the high salary teams and such for killing your fan base, or being able to out spend your team and such. Look at the Oakland A's. Not exactly a bastion of constant fan support, they are a small market team and always have one of the lowest payroll's in the majors. Thing is, they have a management staff in place that KNOWS how to run a baseball team. GM Billy Beane is a genius. He knows how to run the team, draft players and devolope them in the minors. Look at the Twins, same thing. The Royals this year. Tampa Bay is an absolute joke. A group of monkeys could run that team better. Having money helps, but it is not the only thing that you need to be successful in baseball.


User currently offlineAC320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1048 times:

All I'm sure of is that it looks like relocation is off again for at least another year. If anyone reads Jim Caple's articles on ESPN, keeping the Expos where they are is looking like the better option, with KROC's observation of people who know how to run a sports franchise.

With them having a good shot at the wild card, should they win it, the results would be interesting to say the least.


User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1043 times:

The Expos have had one of the best minor league systems in the game in the last decade but they can't afford to resign their home grown talent as soon as they touch free agency or even arbitration.The A's are starting to have the same problem which is a shame.As you say,they are the best run team in the game.

User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1038 times:

I think Donder10 really hit the right button here. Think of all the players Montréal was not able to keep, and you'll get yourself a championship team (Moise Alou, Pedro Martinez, Larry Walker, Marquis Grissom, etc). And the Expos will certainly not be able to keep Vladimir Guerrero, Jose Vidro, Orlando Cabrera. How can the fans bound to star players, since the team cannot afford to keep them once they've reached "stardom"?

I agree that the baseball all-star game is the best that I know of. But overall, the NFL seems to be managed in a fashion that allows small market teams to compete on a leveled playing field. Which is not the case with baseball and that's why I think it's sick.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1033 times:

Like I said, don't give me anything about not being able to keep players. While it is true, like with Oakland, when they lose a player due to free agency, they have another top prospect waiting in the wings. If Montreal's farm system was indeed as deep as some of you say it is, they would be even moer competitive than they are now. On top of that, Montreal has great and exciting players and still get no fan support. Vlad Grrrrr has been around how long now?

User currently offlineAC320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1029 times:

The farm system isn't really that deep, it has just produced quite a few big names over the years, and a whole lot of nobody's.

And fan support is growing, slowly and steadily. Up about 20% so far over last year which saw the highest increase over all major league teams.


User currently offlineBuckfifty From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1316 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1025 times:

The farm system of producing players is a good one, if you find the right talent. The talent matures, trade them to a contender with a big budget, and you just may get to restock.

However, that all falls apart if the farm system dries up for a few years. The Expos had that problem in the latter part of the last decade, until Vlad came along. And in the end, there are only so many Billy Beane available in this world.

It's sad, but when the strike happened (back in 95, I think), that was the worst thing that could have happened at the most inopportune time. People in Montreal loved baseball, but after the strike, and the consequent loss of the Expos' best chance at the world series in over 20 years, people just got disillusioned by the whole thing.


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1020 times:

The problems that the Expos have had can be traced back to prior owners (and including MLB). The ownership wanted a new stadium, paid for with public money. Since the Expos current stadium is still being paid for (Montreal got themselves into a debt problem with the 1976 Olympics), the city and the provincial gov't was less than willing to fund it. The main reason was because the team was becoming nothing more than a developmental team for the rest of baseball. When the Expos' star players reached the end of their first contract, the team didn't resign them (claiming they couldn't afford to) or traded them away prior to the end of their contract. Even with Molson trying to help the Expos in getting a new park, the local gov't has refused to pay a penny into it. Having the League own the team hasn't helped matters too much either. Making the Expos play "home" games down in San Juan may be a good in the way of publicity, but still makes them a gypsy team in effect. They will land in the Washington D.C./Northern VA area. Unfortunately, the Orioles' owner will want a payment from the team and/or the league for "financial losses the Orioles will suffer as a result of a team in D.C.". The Expos will be the Washington Senators mk.3. They'll spend a few seasons playing @ RFK until the new stadium is built. One sad thing about baseball in Montreal is that last season, when the Expos were playing well, there were more people at a Canadiens game than at an Expos game.

User currently offlineAC320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1016 times:

Actually the new Expos stadium plan for Montreal had support at both the city and provincial levels. The land was secured, season ticket pledges and fan donations were being accepted, and the team was in a position to receive $100 million in government financing. however, Loria came in and abandoned the project right before it could have received the go-ahead.

Portland and CD want commitments from MLB before they make major expenditures, MLB wants commitments from the cities before commiting them a team. In the end you have one big standoff, and the team not going anywhere.

PS- Molson has not been involved in any stadium plans. You must be thinking of Labatt, which pledged $50 million to the construction effort in exchange for naming rights.


User currently offlineSeb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11576 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1013 times:

I have been against moving the Expos to Portland since day one. I think I stated in another thread: Who goes to a Beavers game? The city council has plans on the table to build a state-of-the-art stadium in the warehouse district, fairly close to the Rose Garden Arena. But, no one seems interested in paying those prices to see big league ball. I don't even know many people from here that make the 2 hour drive to Seattle. Why throw away all that money on a stadium when we have no money for schools.

Besides, the Blazers need to get their players into rehab first, then go after the Sabres, IMO!

GO CANUCKS!!



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1011 times:

The Sabres? Back off ya friggin' Canuck Fan. The Sabres aren't going anywhere damnit! Tom Galisano (of Crapcehster) now owns the team, and is fan oriented. Go after someone else's team Portland.

As for Portland baseball. I have been against P-Town getting a team as well. IMO it just wouldn't work. I figure if the Expos do end up somewhere, Northern VA would probably be the best, but Pinko Pete will fight that every step of the way. And ultimately I would like the Elbows to stay where they are, IF they can get fan support. They have no reason to spend money, when they are not getting a solid fan commitment as well. Oh, and at least with MLB at the helm, they have actually traded FOR talent, as opposed to getting rid of it the last 2 years.

Oh, and Jeffery Loria has no business being a Major League owner of any team.


User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1009 times:

To go further on AC320 comments.

The provincial government had accepted to give the Expos $8 millions/year for 15 years to pay the interests on the capital needed to build the new stadium.

The federal government had accepted to give a piece of land it owns in downtown Montréal, worth many millions, where the new stadium was supposed to be built.

Still, Jeffrey Loria, with the support of MLB, said it was not enough government support. These guys are probably just a bunch of diehard socialists I guess...



Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
User currently offlineAC320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 996 times:

Socialists or merely trying to add fuel to the lawsuit against them Qb001. I think they get their day in court in October against Bronfman and the former shareholders.

As you said the money was there, $100 million from governments, $50 million in naming rights to Labatt Park, and $50 million from the presale and rights to seats and sky boxes. Loria destroyed that and the broadcasting/sponsorships, and left a whole lot of fodder for the pending arbitration and later lawsuit coming up soon.


User currently offlineDoug_or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3402 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 6 days ago) and read 990 times:

As a fellow Portlander, I'm with Seb. Let 'em go to DC. or San Juan. or wherever. I don't want to pay to support Vera Katz's pyramid scheme. Backwhen I liked Baseball I saw the original Beavs a couple times, and it was fun. But it was also cheap. The Blazers are hemmoraging money. If there were another Pro team they'd both be losing more.


When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29795 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 6 days ago) and read 989 times:

Well the first problem the Expos have is the name.

A team name should strike fear into the opponents and Exponents doesn't do that. It just isn't scary.

There are some hockey teams with very scary names, They include examples, such as the Vancouver Canuks, The Montreal Canadians, The Toroto Maple Leafs.

Now those are names that will strike fear into opponents.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 986 times:

Yeah, exactly.

What about the St.Louis Cardinals or the Baltimore Orioles or the Boston Red Sox? Have you ever been attacked by a Red Sox? I was, and I must admit I've never been so scared in my whole life...



Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
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