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What's With All The EU Vs. US B*tching?  
User currently offlineUal747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2667 times:

Seems like over the past few days, everyone has been on their period. I don't mean to take sides here, but the majority of the bitchiness has stemmed from the EU side. I haven't seen this many anti-US posts in a long time. The civil aviation forum is full of it, as well as this forum. Somehow, some way, every thread ends up with people from Europe yelling at Americans about how their country is flawed this way, or that. Take a browse through the forums, it's a true fact.

I guess my question is, why all the hate? Is it European culture to always be so negative towards people and have such negative things to say to them? I'd venture a guess to say that the majority of griping comes from the Europeans, with the American constantly having to defend himself. I find it interesting that the griping on the American side is ten times less, really! Take a look at some of the threads.

Is Europe really that perfect? Or are they just blinded by their own arrogance? Is America actually THAT BAD? I find that normal people really just don't give a rat's ass about half the stuff that is argued on this forum. Do some of us just need to get a life?

UAL747

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2616 times:
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Do some of us just need to get a life?

You said it there, we all see to think we have the biggest dicks. My tactic is to simply ignore, we all have a degree of inferiority complex. Fact is, there are some things i like about America, there are some things i hate, at the same time there are some things i like abouth European countries and some things i hate. It's all a matter of personal opinion, and some of us seem to take every bit of criticism way too seriously. We also take politics way too seriously sometimes, it seems to be the be all and end all on life on earth. It's all a load of BS anyway, someone else's opinion is not always fact, it's just an opinion.
We need to relax more and learn to absorb criticism more than we currently do.




In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineJcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 2, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2599 times:

To answer your question, Europe is far from perfect...and so is the US. Although, I find that an American's attitude about improving the nation is usually far different from someone from Europe. An American tends to look at their nation itself and its own individual problems, and point their finger at American policies. Unfortunately, Europeans do the same thing...point the finger at America for their internal problems, for whatever reason---inferiority complex (although I dont think very many people are like this), insecurity, failure to admit wrongs...whatever it may be. America gets fingered for every problem.

Another thing I have noticed is that people say I dont hate America, I just hate that "cowboy", GW Bush. I hate to say it, but we live an a country of free elections...and through the electoral college, Bush was elected. And make no mistake a.net member, Bush is still a popular president despite the majority of liberal American members on this board. I mean how many times do we really tear in to Chirac or Schroeder? Many Europeans have a difficult time dealing with a someone whose world views differ from theirs, and therefore they (most of the time) will hate any conservative president. They disliked Bush I, hated Reagan, and now abhore good ol' W. Through the eliteist European press and the upper strata of European society the Euros have been conned into thinking that they are superior to America. Nobody is superior to anyone, both societies have their positives and negatives.

I mean, did anyone else catch that quote from a Belgian user that went something along the lines of, "I know I'm right, and I know GW Bush is wrong." That pretty much sums up many European's world view, very little understanding of American policy, and therefore many Europeans stereotype the American people as "wrong."

[Edited 2003-08-10 19:01:41]


America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineJcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 3, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2587 times:

Another thing, it seems that for every European user who has their qualms with American policy but still recognizes the strengths of America and the quality of the American people, there are about four others who believe that the American people are "ignorant, stupid" and believe the US should be subservient to European policy.


America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineUal747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2574 times:

Although I don't like Bush whatsoever, I agree with most of what you said JCS.

UAL747


User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2566 times:

and believe the US should be subservient to European policy.

Actually I feel the totally opposite: it's like we are subservient to American policy.

How I see it...

9/11: a lot of respect came from Europe to the circumstances in America on this cruel day. I never saw everyone coming together, and looking at the TV, with a face filled of unbelief.

When I first heard it (several hours after it happened), I did not believe it. It really took a lot of time.

Bush started his war on terrorism, and I understood his decision. Cleaning the WTC area and forget everything was something he could not do. So he went into Afghanistan (I did not hear people calling bush a wardog in that time, so calling us all pacifists is untrue).

But than... bush started to give us, Europeans, a feeling like "we are world's superpower, and you, little Europe, will do whatever the big empire wants (even supported by the guy from reply 2 and 3)".

This all ended in the famous Iraq war, where a lot of countries agreed on the war against terror, but not with the war in Iraq. We got to hear: 'you are either with us or against us'. France was opposed to the war, this resulted in hatress from the Americans. Also hatress from the side of the Europeans when we heard that, if we opposed to the war or not, the war would go on anyway, even with the false presentation of Powell. Powell even told to Belgium: 'It becomes time that Belgium shuts up'. Do you expect us to agree with this (no wonder that more than 90% of the Belgians is against the war in Iraq).

The bush diplomatics has upset so many people, that several of them (not including me) are generalizing bush to the American people these days. Of course it doesn't help if you have to read over here that some people clearly agree with bush, who wants to punish us, Europeans, for being anti this war. An example is removing the military base from FRA, because Germany was against the war. Do you understand that we see this as arrogance?

Something that several bush lovers should have to do, is think like this: 'if I would be European, and bush would talk about Europe in such an arrogant tone, would I like it?'

I think I know the answer...

Americans are hating Airbus these days, I still have to talk with the first European hating Boeing. If I read replies like 'I hate Airbus', 'Every Airbus order is fraudulent',..., isn't it normal that we are asking us questions about the attitude of some people? Do you think that I don't drink coca cola anymore because I dislike bush? No, but the French wine sold in America + tourism to French dropped, because France his anti-war stance.

Regards
Frederic (anti-bush, anti the Iraq war, not anti-America)


User currently offlineJaspike From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2008, 1 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2548 times:

Well done Ual747, you might just have created another topic on the same subject.

Josh


User currently offlineDoorsToManual From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2559 times:

One suggestion is that perhaps the American members of this forum underestimate the extent to which Europeans are informed of politics, not just in their own back yard, but on the global stage.

The "problem" might partly be due to the fact that many Europeans are passionately against the Bush doctrine, when applied to the world of foreign affairs. This is totally different from criticising "Americans", but inevitably this hatred of the current US administration's foreign policy doctrine spills over into general (but not genuine) dislike for anything American.

Some make more efforts than others to stress that they are simply against Bush, not the people.

Europe has a strong tradition of political, but also general dissent. Accepting authority unquestioningly, simply because it is "authority" is seen as highly naive, if not dangerous.

Patriotism, US-style, does not really exist in Europe - people don't really see the point. That's why you'll find the European press - and its people - much more critical than is perhaps the case in the US...

Just an idea. I ain't European, so I might well be wrong on this...


User currently offlineTeva From France, joined Jan 2001, 1873 posts, RR: 16
Reply 8, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2537 times:

Just a few questions for one single reply?
Which country has helped the USA to be indepandant?
Which country has never been at war with the USA?
From which country was the first head of a state visiting NewYork after Sep11?

Being friend doesn't mean agree on everything the other says, nor be a vassal. The day some people realize this, they will discover that relationship between the USA and the country above are good
Teva



Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
User currently offlineUal747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2537 times:

Sabena....

Who says they hate airbus? I seriously doubt any significant amount of Americans on this board have actually stated such things.


User currently offlineSchoenorama From Spain, joined Apr 2001, 2440 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2542 times:

I think 'DoorsToManual' has summed it up very good indeed!

I should emphasize that at least my 'anti US Government' posts are just that; anti US Government! Unfortunately, far too many people take this personally.
Also, equaling one's anti-Bush threads to hating all Americans just goes too far.

Another, not less important thing is that people should realise that as Europeans (or other non-US nationals) are not able to ellect US presidents, his decisions do affect their lifes personally (Kyoto, Iraq).

I'm affraid that, as long as the US maintains to be the sole superpower in the world, and as long as this administration completely ignores the rest of the World, this kind of criticism will continue.



Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2523 times:

Josh, with all respect, I don't see Europeans demanding U.S. subserviance to European policy. What I do see is the world asking the U.S. to be less unilateral, and more open to diplomacy in the post-war climate. Even you can't say that the Bush Administration gave diplomacy a fair shake before the war, because it was just pushed aside in the rush for war.

The U.S. will never be subserviant to European policy, and everyone on here knows that, but with this "punish France, Germany and Belgium" attitude that you and so many who support this neocon madness in Washington, you sure seem to think that Europe should damn well tow the American line, or face punishment of our choosing. Now, who is asking subserviance of whom, son?


User currently offlineKevi747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1058 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2499 times:

I agree with DoorstoManual as well. Europeans have a much broader worldview than Americans.

When I'm laying over in Europe the news channels are so much more comprehensive and they include important political and economic stories from around the world.

American journalism sucks. In the US its all fluff pieces about what consumer product could kill you, "investigative" pieces about small time crooks who con people, or entertainment news about what J. Lo and Ben are up to. It's such a joke. Of course, there are some reputable exceptions. But many more Americans watch local "action" news than The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer.



"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert
User currently offlineTeva From France, joined Jan 2001, 1873 posts, RR: 16
Reply 13, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2498 times:

Read this copy paste of another thread:
"Username: B757300
From United States, joined Dec 2000, 2541 posts, RR: 51
Reply: 2
Posted Sun Aug 10 2003 22:06:35 UTC+1 and read 24 times:

Wow, that's just a typical summer day in Texas.

"I think its George W. Bush's fault. [Laugh out loud] "

Within the next 5 replies, someone will blame Bush for this. After that, the thread will turn to Kyoto, and then people from certain countries commenting on how backwards the U.S. is.

RE: Temps In London Hit 100 For The First Time Ever!
Username: NKP S2
From United States, joined Dec 1999, 1061 posts, RR: 44
Reply: 3
Posted Sun Aug 10 2003 22:15:58 UTC+1 and read 16 times:

B757300: "Within the next 5 replies, someone will blame Bush for this. After that, the thread will turn to Kyoto, and then people from certain countries commenting on how backwards the U.S. is"

I was musing the same thing as I read/scrolled...and I second the bet you'll be correct in your prediction...except you left out the part about Ronald Reagan being responsible for the proliferation of A.I.D.S. or whatever."


This topic is about hot summer in Europe. There is nothing against the USA in the discussion, but 2 people make those comments. I will take them as jokes. But don't be surprised if some people find them very arrogant.
And I am quite sure they will start to get those reactions.
Teva



Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
User currently offlineUal747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2443 times:

Teva, the comment was made in jest. However, there is some truth to the fact that some Americans here, including myself, think that quite a few Europeans on here are always foaming at the mouth for a chance to knock the USA. You know it's true. I don't care if you disagree, but hell, you guys don't ever give up and just reckognize there are differences. It's your opinion or else.

UAL747


User currently offlineEGGD From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 12443 posts, RR: 35
Reply 15, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2437 times:

I agree there is alot of bitching,

I don't agree that its mostly Europeans that are doing it, I think its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.

Unfortunetely I've found that people tend to argue on internet message boards EVERYWHERE about every fucking thing. It really annoys me that people can't get along and just have fun rather than always getting at each others throats.

I think if we had the same conversations in person we wouldn't be at each others throats, but because we can't see face to face we don't know how a person is acting when he is saying something, so if you see words on your screen you may react differently to if it was spoken by someone..

Don't ask me why, seems most people seem to think that anything written is a malicious and direct attack on them...


User currently offlineCancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2433 times:

there are americans that hate europe. myself and a french freind of mine were run off the road in prescott, az buy a dumb redneck who simply did not like the bumper sticker on my freinds car. even once the police arrived he did not refrain from saying every stupid thing he could about how europe is crap and the us is grand. i don't think he realize what he was saying, because he had an irish flag in his window. as long as there are idiots like that out there, there will be friction between europe and the us.

i think that europe should stay out of american affairs and the vice versa. that will be the best solution.



"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
User currently offlineEGGD From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 12443 posts, RR: 35
Reply 17, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2445 times:

Maybe he thoughts Ireland was part of the US?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

User currently offlineCharleslp From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 336 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2421 times:

I was hoping I didn't have to do this, but y'all leave me no choice:

http://engforum.pravda.ru/forumdisplay.php3?s=&forumid=4

If you think the anti-Americanism is bad here (there's not much of it), wait until you read some of the threads at the link. But, then again, that IS a Russian-based website.


User currently offlineEGGD From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 12443 posts, RR: 35
Reply 19, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2417 times:

btw Ual747 - You obviously don't understand it but you are being anti-European in your original post. You are saying that Europeans are attacking Americans and Americans are having to defend themselves, but you are doing exactly the same.

Most people only see things they don't like, there are just as many Americans doing the same, you just don't notice it because you agree with them.

Just give it a rest, I think we all need to look from both sides of the pond rather than through our own rose-tinted glasses.


User currently offlineUal747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2411 times:

Rose tinted glasses my ass. I'm an international studies major. I think I can see from both sides of the ocean better than the average American or European.

User currently offlineDFWLandingPath From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2422 times:

Teva: You wrote that:
"Just a few questions for one single reply?
Which country has helped the USA to be indepandant?
Which country has never been at war with the USA?"

I really don't think that you can consider these fair or even relevant questions. Yes France helped the US gain its independence, but it was gained from England and yet we don't hate them. You state that France has never been at war with the US, and while true.... I pose to you the questions of 'Who libirated the French from the Nazis?' and 'What country provided France with $2.7 Billion between April 3, 1948 and June 30, 1952 in order to rebuild the country, also known as the Marshall Plan?'

I don't mean for this reply to be inflammatory, but I just thought that I would present the other side. I would also like to say that I personally love France, spent all of June there, and can't wait to go back. I say this to rule out any personal bias.

Cheers,
DFWLandingPath


User currently offlineCharleslp From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 336 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2420 times:

Okay, since we're all on the topic of Europeans and Americans, I have a few questions:

1. Were there any Europeans who wanted the US to lose the War in Iraq?

2. Does anyone care if "French Fries" are called "Freedom Fries?"

3. Does anyone care if Americans boycott French goods or the French boycott American goods?

4. Are Americans who visit Europe looked at as "morons" or as an inferior ethnic group?

5. Does anybody trust the USA (excluding the Bush Administration) anymore?

6. Is the Bush Administration being too overbearing on the rest of the world?

7. If there was ever a war between the USA and China (hypothetical question) which side would the EU choose?


User currently offlineEmiratesA345 From Canada, joined Jun 2003, 2123 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2396 times:

"but we live an a country of free elections..."

What a crock. We all know that the Florida votes were flawed. Gore would have been president, there wouldn't have been all this mess with Iraq, and everything would have been just as good as when Clinton was in office.

EmiratesA345  Smile/happy/getting dizzy



You and I were meant to fly, Air Canada!
User currently offlineUal747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (11 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2395 times:

"Get your head out of your ass"

Typical response to someone of a differing opinion.


25 Boeing4ever : What a crock. We all know that the Florida votes were flawed. Gore would have been president, there wouldn't have been all this mess with Iraq, and ev
26 Post contains images DoorsToManual : Okay, since we're all on the topic of Europeans and Americans, I have a few questions: 1. Were there any Europeans who wanted the US to lose the War i
27 Rabenschlag : it is hard to tell who is worse in bitching. i think it would take a great effort to come to valid data, e.g. analyzing posts in forums or articles in
28 Post contains images DoorsToManual : Hey, don't "diss" the NY Post! I read it with the same frame of mind that I use when reading The Daily "let's boycott Greek produce" Mail here in Brit
29 EGGD : Typical response to someone of a differing opinion. What the hell? I wrote a perfectly sensible response, which you just blew off without a thought wi
30 Andreas : Hey hey hey, that was a joke I guess, nothing more or less. And if not, this moron didn't have sex for at least 2 months, his wife didn't let him have
31 Donder10 : But than... bush started to give us, Europeans, a feeling like "we are world's superpower, and you, little Europe, will do whatever the big empire wan
32 Post contains images Keesje : I hate the constant Euro Bashing I see all over the site, it´s unjust. hmm I guess W Bush and his necons cannot be held responsible for an enormous r
33 Charleslp : I guess the USA and the EU have a love/hate relationship.
34 Post contains images Leezyjet : "What a crock. We all know that the Florida votes were flawed. Gore would have been president, there wouldn't have been all this mess with Iraq, and e
35 Post contains links Eric505 : Isn't "Stupid White Men" by that idiot Michael Moore? http://www.mathrec.org/schaefer/commentary/fl-2000.html For better or worse, Bush won.
36 Boeing4ever : Suggest you read the book "Stupid White Men" my friend, I've just started to read it and it details all the ways in which the election was rigged by B
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