Ual747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2095 times:
Seems like over the past few days, everyone has been on their period. I don't mean to take sides here, but the majority of the bitchiness has stemmed from the EU side. I haven't seen this many anti-US posts in a long time. The civil aviation forum is full of it, as well as this forum. Somehow, some way, every thread ends up with people from Europe yelling at Americans about how their country is flawed this way, or that. Take a browse through the forums, it's a true fact.
I guess my question is, why all the hate? Is it European culture to always be so negative towards people and have such negative things to say to them? I'd venture a guess to say that the majority of griping comes from the Europeans, with the American constantly having to defend himself. I find it interesting that the griping on the American side is ten times less, really! Take a look at some of the threads.
Is Europe really that perfect? Or are they just blinded by their own arrogance? Is America actually THAT BAD? I find that normal people really just don't give a rat's ass about half the stuff that is argued on this forum. Do some of us just need to get a life?
Arsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7791 posts, RR: 23 Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2044 times:
Do some of us just need to get a life?
You said it there, we all see to think we have the biggest dicks. My tactic is to simply ignore, we all have a degree of inferiority complex. Fact is, there are some things i like about America, there are some things i hate, at the same time there are some things i like abouth European countries and some things i hate. It's all a matter of personal opinion, and some of us seem to take every bit of criticism way too seriously. We also take politics way too seriously sometimes, it seems to be the be all and end all on life on earth. It's all a load of BS anyway, someone else's opinion is not always fact, it's just an opinion.
We need to relax more and learn to absorb criticism more than we currently do.
Jcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 43 Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2027 times:
To answer your question, Europe is far from perfect...and so is the US. Although, I find that an American's attitude about improving the nation is usually far different from someone from Europe. An American tends to look at their nation itself and its own individual problems, and point their finger at American policies. Unfortunately, Europeans do the same thing...point the finger at America for their internal problems, for whatever reason---inferiority complex (although I dont think very many people are like this), insecurity, failure to admit wrongs...whatever it may be. America gets fingered for every problem.
Another thing I have noticed is that people say I dont hate America, I just hate that "cowboy", GW Bush. I hate to say it, but we live an a country of free elections...and through the electoral college, Bush was elected. And make no mistake a.net member, Bush is still a popular president despite the majority of liberal American members on this board. I mean how many times do we really tear in to Chirac or Schroeder? Many Europeans have a difficult time dealing with a someone whose world views differ from theirs, and therefore they (most of the time) will hate any conservative president. They disliked Bush I, hated Reagan, and now abhore good ol' W. Through the eliteist European press and the upper strata of European society the Euros have been conned into thinking that they are superior to America. Nobody is superior to anyone, both societies have their positives and negatives.
I mean, did anyone else catch that quote from a Belgian user that went something along the lines of, "I know I'm right, and I know GW Bush is wrong." That pretty much sums up many European's world view, very little understanding of American policy, and therefore many Europeans stereotype the American people as "wrong."
Jcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 43 Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2015 times:
Another thing, it seems that for every European user who has their qualms with American policy but still recognizes the strengths of America and the quality of the American people, there are about four others who believe that the American people are "ignorant, stupid" and believe the US should be subservient to European policy.
Sabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1994 times:
and believe the US should be subservient to European policy.
Actually I feel the totally opposite: it's like we are subservient to American policy.
How I see it...
9/11: a lot of respect came from Europe to the circumstances in America on this cruel day. I never saw everyone coming together, and looking at the TV, with a face filled of unbelief.
When I first heard it (several hours after it happened), I did not believe it. It really took a lot of time.
Bush started his war on terrorism, and I understood his decision. Cleaning the WTC area and forget everything was something he could not do. So he went into Afghanistan (I did not hear people calling bush a wardog in that time, so calling us all pacifists is untrue).
But than... bush started to give us, Europeans, a feeling like "we are world's superpower, and you, little Europe, will do whatever the big empire wants (even supported by the guy from reply 2 and 3)".
This all ended in the famous Iraq war, where a lot of countries agreed on the war against terror, but not with the war in Iraq. We got to hear: 'you are either with us or against us'. France was opposed to the war, this resulted in hatress from the Americans. Also hatress from the side of the Europeans when we heard that, if we opposed to the war or not, the war would go on anyway, even with the false presentation of Powell. Powell even told to Belgium: 'It becomes time that Belgium shuts up'. Do you expect us to agree with this (no wonder that more than 90% of the Belgians is against the war in Iraq).
The bush diplomatics has upset so many people, that several of them (not including me) are generalizing bush to the American people these days. Of course it doesn't help if you have to read over here that some people clearly agree with bush, who wants to punish us, Europeans, for being anti this war. An example is removing the military base from FRA, because Germany was against the war. Do you understand that we see this as arrogance?
Something that several bush lovers should have to do, is think like this: 'if I would be European, and bush would talk about Europe in such an arrogant tone, would I like it?'
I think I know the answer...
Americans are hating Airbus these days, I still have to talk with the first European hating Boeing. If I read replies like 'I hate Airbus', 'Every Airbus order is fraudulent',..., isn't it normal that we are asking us questions about the attitude of some people? Do you think that I don't drink coca cola anymore because I dislike bush? No, but the French wine sold in America + tourism to French dropped, because France his anti-war stance.
Frederic (anti-bush, anti the Iraq war, not anti-America)
DoorsToManual From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1987 times:
One suggestion is that perhaps the American members of this forum underestimate the extent to which Europeans are informed of politics, not just in their own back yard, but on the global stage.
The "problem" might partly be due to the fact that many Europeans are passionately against the Bush doctrine, when applied to the world of foreign affairs. This is totally different from criticising "Americans", but inevitably this hatred of the current US administration's foreign policy doctrine spills over into general (but not genuine) dislike for anything American.
Some make more efforts than others to stress that they are simply against Bush, not the people.
Europe has a strong tradition of political, but also general dissent. Accepting authority unquestioningly, simply because it is "authority" is seen as highly naive, if not dangerous.
Patriotism, US-style, does not really exist in Europe - people don't really see the point. That's why you'll find the European press - and its people - much more critical than is perhaps the case in the US...
Just an idea. I ain't European, so I might well be wrong on this...
Teva From France, joined Jan 2001, 1868 posts, RR: 17 Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1965 times:
Just a few questions for one single reply?
Which country has helped the USA to be indepandant?
Which country has never been at war with the USA?
From which country was the first head of a state visiting NewYork after Sep11?
Being friend doesn't mean agree on everything the other says, nor be a vassal. The day some people realize this, they will discover that relationship between the USA and the country above are good
Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
Schoenorama From Spain, joined Apr 2001, 2440 posts, RR: 28 Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1970 times:
I think 'DoorsToManual' has summed it up very good indeed!
I should emphasize that at least my 'anti US Government' posts are just that; anti US Government! Unfortunately, far too many people take this personally.
Also, equaling one's anti-Bush threads to hating all Americans just goes too far.
Another, not less important thing is that people should realise that as Europeans (or other non-US nationals) are not able to ellect US presidents, his decisions do affect their lifes personally (Kyoto, Iraq).
I'm affraid that, as long as the US maintains to be the sole superpower in the world, and as long as this administration completely ignores the rest of the World, this kind of criticism will continue.
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
Alpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1951 times:
Josh, with all respect, I don't see Europeans demanding U.S. subserviance to European policy. What I do see is the world asking the U.S. to be less unilateral, and more open to diplomacy in the post-war climate. Even you can't say that the Bush Administration gave diplomacy a fair shake before the war, because it was just pushed aside in the rush for war.
The U.S. will never be subserviant to European policy, and everyone on here knows that, but with this "punish France, Germany and Belgium" attitude that you and so many who support this neocon madness in Washington, you sure seem to think that Europe should damn well tow the American line, or face punishment of our choosing. Now, who is asking subserviance of whom, son?
Kevi747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1056 posts, RR: 13 Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1927 times:
I agree with DoorstoManual as well. Europeans have a much broader worldview than Americans.
When I'm laying over in Europe the news channels are so much more comprehensive and they include important political and economic stories from around the world.
American journalism sucks. In the US its all fluff pieces about what consumer product could kill you, "investigative" pieces about small time crooks who con people, or entertainment news about what J. Lo and Ben are up to. It's such a joke. Of course, there are some reputable exceptions. But many more Americans watch local "action" news than The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer.
"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert
Teva From France, joined Jan 2001, 1868 posts, RR: 17 Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1926 times:
Read this copy paste of another thread:
From United States, joined Dec 2000, 2541 posts, RR: 51
Posted Sun Aug 10 2003 22:06:35 UTC+1 and read 24 times:
Wow, that's just a typical summer day in Texas.
"I think its George W. Bush's fault. [Laugh out loud] "
Within the next 5 replies, someone will blame Bush for this. After that, the thread will turn to Kyoto, and then people from certain countries commenting on how backwards the U.S. is.
RE: Temps In London Hit 100 For The First Time Ever!
Username: NKP S2
From United States, joined Dec 1999, 1061 posts, RR: 44
Posted Sun Aug 10 2003 22:15:58 UTC+1 and read 16 times:
B757300: "Within the next 5 replies, someone will blame Bush for this. After that, the thread will turn to Kyoto, and then people from certain countries commenting on how backwards the U.S. is"
I was musing the same thing as I read/scrolled...and I second the bet you'll be correct in your prediction...except you left out the part about Ronald Reagan being responsible for the proliferation of A.I.D.S. or whatever."
This topic is about hot summer in Europe. There is nothing against the USA in the discussion, but 2 people make those comments. I will take them as jokes. But don't be surprised if some people find them very arrogant.
And I am quite sure they will start to get those reactions.
Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
Ual747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1871 times:
Teva, the comment was made in jest. However, there is some truth to the fact that some Americans here, including myself, think that quite a few Europeans on here are always foaming at the mouth for a chance to knock the USA. You know it's true. I don't care if you disagree, but hell, you guys don't ever give up and just reckognize there are differences. It's your opinion or else.
EGGD From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 12426 posts, RR: 40 Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1865 times:
I agree there is alot of bitching,
I don't agree that its mostly Europeans that are doing it, I think its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.
Unfortunetely I've found that people tend to argue on internet message boards EVERYWHERE about every fucking thing. It really annoys me that people can't get along and just have fun rather than always getting at each others throats.
I think if we had the same conversations in person we wouldn't be at each others throats, but because we can't see face to face we don't know how a person is acting when he is saying something, so if you see words on your screen you may react differently to if it was spoken by someone..
Don't ask me why, seems most people seem to think that anything written is a malicious and direct attack on them...
Cancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 13 Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1861 times:
there are americans that hate europe. myself and a french freind of mine were run off the road in prescott, az buy a dumb redneck who simply did not like the bumper sticker on my freinds car. even once the police arrived he did not refrain from saying every stupid thing he could about how europe is crap and the us is grand. i don't think he realize what he was saying, because he had an irish flag in his window. as long as there are idiots like that out there, there will be friction between europe and the us.
i think that europe should stay out of american affairs and the vice versa. that will be the best solution.
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
EGGD From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 12426 posts, RR: 40 Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1845 times:
btw Ual747 - You obviously don't understand it but you are being anti-European in your original post. You are saying that Europeans are attacking Americans and Americans are having to defend themselves, but you are doing exactly the same.
Most people only see things they don't like, there are just as many Americans doing the same, you just don't notice it because you agree with them.
Just give it a rest, I think we all need to look from both sides of the pond rather than through our own rose-tinted glasses.
DFWLandingPath From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 211 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1850 times:
Teva: You wrote that:
"Just a few questions for one single reply?
Which country has helped the USA to be indepandant?
Which country has never been at war with the USA?"
I really don't think that you can consider these fair or even relevant questions. Yes France helped the US gain its independence, but it was gained from England and yet we don't hate them. You state that France has never been at war with the US, and while true.... I pose to you the questions of 'Who libirated the French from the Nazis?' and 'What country provided France with $2.7 Billion between April 3, 1948 and June 30, 1952 in order to rebuild the country, also known as the Marshall Plan?'
I don't mean for this reply to be inflammatory, but I just thought that I would present the other side. I would also like to say that I personally love France, spent all of June there, and can't wait to go back. I say this to rule out any personal bias.
EmiratesA345 From Canada, joined Jun 2003, 2120 posts, RR: 10 Reply 23, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1824 times:
"but we live an a country of free elections..."
What a crock. We all know that the Florida votes were flawed. Gore would have been president, there wouldn't have been all this mess with Iraq, and everything would have been just as good as when Clinton was in office.