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According To ELF: What Is To Much Car/engine?  
User currently offlineNorth County From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 712 posts, RR: 1
Posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1584 times:

Since I can't walk in on one of their public meetings, I would like to how much car/engine is to much by their standards?

[Edited 2003-08-26 18:24:23]

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8726 posts, RR: 43
Reply 1, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1560 times:

Their attacks were aimed at SUVs, that should answer your question. I don't think they are against large cars per se, only against those cars bought by people who own them to drive around town by themselves, and to impress others.

http://www.earthliberationfront.com/news/2003/082203.shtml



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineMaxPowers From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 475 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1555 times:

how the hell can somebody tell if at home they have jet skis and snow mobiles?

That's why my family has an SUV...cause we need to tow stuff. However when I'm not towing stuff, I bet people assume I use my SUV as a mall/soccer practice shuttle...lame.



User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29805 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1551 times:

I just wonder if they realize how many toxins where released by those uncontrolled fires they set.


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29805 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1547 times:

Good lord,

Have you all looked at that website that Algoes put up.

They have instructions on building timers and setting fires on them, how to detecte government informants and how to avoid prosecution.


Somebody explain to me how these guys are not equatable to al-quida. I hope the feds clean up on them.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39920 posts, RR: 75
Reply 5, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1540 times:

MaxPowers:
An easy way to tell if they have one of those car based SUVs that can only tow groceries.

As much as I am willing to support a movement to rid our streets of these ugly things, I seriously doubt these peoples knowledge of vehicles. At a peace rally I spoke with this group that had a list of SUVs to target.
They listed all the good ones that serves a purpose such as; the Ford Excursion and GMC Suburban. They couldn't understand that those are most likely to be used to tow heavy equipment.
The problem is with the useless car based ones that still impair other drivers vision and can still tip. The worse are; Lexus EX300, Pontiac Aztec & Mercedes M class.
They thoughgt because they were smaller they were better.
Not true.
The smaller ones can't serve the purpose of a larger one and still has limitations that cars don't.

The last time to government impossed strick gas standards, we got the K-car and the Vega.  Sad



Bring back the Concorde
User currently onlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 6017 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1537 times:

Regarding the SUV's, I'll use this oportunity to add a Simpsons quote:

Marge Simpson: Ooh, what a nice SUV, what's the mileage?
Rainier Wolfcastle: 1 on Freeway, 0 in town

 Big thumbs up


User currently offlineDahawaiian From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1528 times:

Why aren't they charring Ferrari's, Porsche's or Lambo's? Those cars have atrocious gas mileage compared to many large SUV's. A few weeks ago I saw a Ferrari 575M inside the local Ferrari/Lambo/Audi dealership. The window sticker said something like 14 hwy/8 city, and that is just about as bad as it gets. You would probably get half of that during periods of spirited driving. Granted SUV's are more prevalent than exotic cars, however they still aren't the only fuel-inefficient cars on the roadways.
SUV's are the scapegoats for fuel-efficiency nazi's to pick on. Wouldn't the ELF be more upset about these vehicles that serve no purpose other than to go fast and corner well? This is America dammit, and if anything, the automakers should be forced to design SUV/engine combos that result in better mileage. In the United States, the advancement of a cause is taken better when violence is not used. It is easier to use your hands than it is to use your brain. The ELF is completely misguided, and they will achieve nothing because they have sealed their fate as domestic terrorists.


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8726 posts, RR: 43
Reply 8, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1528 times:

"Somebody explain to me how these guys are not equatable to al-quida. I hope the feds clean up on them."

The distinction is that they don't mean to kill humans, at least it seems like that to me. And I'm not going to read all that "how to build and place a bomb" bs on their website to find out.

They want to express opinions which many people, including me, share, in a way that must not be tolerated by anyone. I understand, though, the apparent reasons why they resort to their kind of actions. They don't see any other possibility of constraining companies and people that don't give a thing about the environment*, and given the current US administration and congress, it's not hard to get their point. But again, what the ELF does is terrorism, albeit not comparable to al-Qaeda.

* Just an example: The CO2 emission of a
BMW X5 4.4i (8 cylinders, 4.4l 286 hp) averages 335 g/km, whereas a
BMW 545i (8 cylinders, 4.4l, 333 hp) averages 264 g/km.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8726 posts, RR: 43
Reply 9, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1526 times:

Dahawaiian,

"Granted SUV's are more prevalent than exotic cars, however they still aren't the only fuel-inefficient cars on the roadways."

Which is the exact point. Just compare the sheer numbers of SUVs over the world to the numbers of Ferraris, Lamborghinis and Porsches. A million SUVs that's twice as "fuel-efficient" as a thousand sports cars causes a lot more pollution than the sports cars.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineRalgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1521 times:

Most of the Suburbans and Excursions I see day to day are not towing anything and are filled with a grand total of one person who is driving to or from work or the store or some place similar. The ones that are filled with people or towing something large are extremely rare.


09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
User currently offlineJcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 11, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1520 times:

only against those cars bought by people who own them to drive around town by themselves, and to impress others.

I forgot, Aloges should have ultimate control as to what cars people can buy...  Yeah sure



America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineRalgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1516 times:

If I got a sports car, I'd use it for what it was intended. There's a police driving track at Corvallis Airport, and I'd be out there bombing around all night.  Big thumbs up


09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39920 posts, RR: 75
Reply 13, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1510 times:

Dahawaiian:
Why aren't they charring Ferrari's, Porsche's or Lambo's?

Those cars are cool!  Smokin cool
They don't impair vison of other drivers. What's more annoying?
Following a SUV or a Ferrari?
You can see over a Ferrari. It's much safer than an SUV.

If I was a balding rich guy with a little d!ck, I'd go for the Ferrari instead of a Hummer.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineSeb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11737 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1507 times:

Believe it or not, there are some areas where SUVs are used for their origional purpose. Go to Montana, Wyoming, Colorado or other rural areas and you will see Suburbans and Explorers actually going OFF ROAD to someone's home!

The SUVs that get on my nerves are the 'soccer mom' types: Escalades, Navigators, Lexus EX300 et al. that have only one or two people in them and heaven forbid if they should get dirty!

GO CANUCKS!!



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39920 posts, RR: 75
Reply 15, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1496 times:

Seb146:
Believe it or not, there are some areas where SUVs are used for their origional purpose. Go to Montana, Wyoming, Colorado or other rural areas and you will see Suburbans and Explorers actually going OFF ROAD to someone's home!

The SUVs that get on my nerves are the 'soccer mom' types: Escalades, Navigators, Lexus EX300 et al. that have only one or two people in them and heaven forbid if they should get dirty!


My point exactly!




Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineNorth County From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 712 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1496 times:


Still no answer to the question.

About some SUVs - most people who tow - tow an RV or boat on the weekends or on vacation.

So they tow maybe 5-10% of the time.

If gas and pollution is the problem then according to ELF we should all be driving 3 and 4 cylinders cars.

Now if you say that is not what ELF is getting at then I have to ask you this:

Be careful when you allow any group (in this case a terrorist one) to dictate what you can buy, drive or own, today it is the SUV, tomorrow it will be V-6s and V-8s, and next year it could be any combustion engines.



User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8726 posts, RR: 43
Reply 17, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1497 times:

I guess that hardly any ELF members would want to burn those SUVs that Seb146 mentioned.



"I forgot, Aloges should have ultimate control as to what cars people can buy..."

Someone's getting annoyed? Welll... anyway, it's a sweet idea.  Laugh out loud Diesels for everyone!



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39920 posts, RR: 75
Reply 18, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1482 times:

Aloges:
Diesels for everyone!

I agree 50%!

Diesels should be the only engine for trucks/SUVs and small economy cars. Notice how all heavy duty commercial vehicles are diesel.
Diesel is the best for trucks and that's they are used from heavy insustrial use.
Gas is good for sports cars and some luxury cars. I wish my Lincoln had a diesel engine. Mercedes and Volvo makes a good diesel powered sedan.
The best fuel efficiency is the VW TDI engines.
Those others made by Honda will become a mechanical nightmare in the future to it's owners.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8726 posts, RR: 43
Reply 19, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1477 times:

And now look at me who had almost written "TDIs for everyone"...  Smile The bad thing about them is that unlike Peugeot and Citroën, they still don't have any filters.

As for sports cars, Diesel engines are of course no good option for them. And the occasional Viper or Murciélago doesn't have enough of its friends around to do any major harm, plus it's an actual piece of engineering, plus nobody claims that it's "practical" or "necessary".



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1477 times:

If I was a balding rich guy with a little d!ck, I'd go for the Ferrari instead of a Hummer.

Are you saying you're not rich? Big grin



"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39920 posts, RR: 75
Reply 21, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1474 times:

JetService:
Good one JetService, Good one! !  Laugh out loud



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineCptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1463 times:

I personally don't give a shit what ELF (or anybody else, for that matter) thinks is too much of anything. I'll drive, fly, live in, etc. anything I want as long as I can afford it without stealing. And, that includes heating my swimming pool while some of these dimbulb do-gooders freeze while sitting in trees to protect the owls.

Well, I like raptors, so maybe thyat was a bit strong, but my point is nobody has a right to dictate what another should enjoy. I like to use the analogy of Barbara Streisand preaching energy conservation to a concert audience while her chauffer keeps her twenty foot limousine idling for four hours to keep the air conditioning running. I say screw her and anyone else that tells me what I should be doing with my earned income...Jack



all best; jack
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39920 posts, RR: 75
Reply 23, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 1460 times:

Hey Jack, don't rag on Barbara.
Have you heard her album 'Guilty'?
She has an amazing voice!  Smile



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8726 posts, RR: 43
Reply 24, posted (11 years 2 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 1456 times:

"my point is nobody has a right to dictate what another should enjoy."

Absolutely, unless he's a democratically elected politician. And in that case, his dictatorial powers should still be very few.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
25 Cptkrell : Yes, Superfly, she has ALWAYS had a fabulous voice...it's her preaching that I rag on (are we spelling her name right? Barbara? Barbra?). BTW, did you
26 Racko : Aloges, the oh-so-great PSA Diesels don't match the Euro-4 emission standard, the oh-so-bad German Diesels do. And their filters cause higher fuel con
27 L-188 : Babs is not quite the environmentalists she thinks she is. Apparently she fells that her....er.....scat, doesn't stink. She is suing a beach erosion m
28 Boeing4ever : Diesels should be the only engine for trucks/SUVs and small economy cars. Notice how all heavy duty commercial vehicles are diesel. Diesel is the best
29 Post contains links Aloges : Racko, interesting fact, I didn't know that. Taking a look here, I read that the PSA Diesels do comply with the regulation on particles, but not on NO
30 Post contains images Superfly : Boeing4ever: Diesel exhaust may not be pleasing to the eye but as Aloges pointed out, it's not as bad as gas engines for trucks. That's why diesels ar
31 Srbmod : One thing about the ELF, there are no known members, no general staff, just a website that tells people how to do things on behaft of the ELF. They re
32 Aloges : Srbmod, I don't think they're exposing themselves like that. First rule for terrorists: keep a low profile.
33 Srbmod : Only the first two sentences in my last post should be taken seriously; the rest of it was just my weekly barb directed at "Homeland Security".
34 Post contains images Aloges : Seems like I did miss that... But anyway, how dare you joke about the DoHS?!?
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