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SUV In Germany: End Of A Neverending Story?  
User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1836 times:

Oh no, another thread on SUV?? Not quite, here's a little story from Germany that could deflate the popularity of SUVs in Germany considerably, if there ever was one:

(link for those who can read German: http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/0,1518,264636,00.html)

In short:
In Germany you pay taxes on your car just because it is registered, if you don't drive around, ok, your prob, you still pay. Now, SUVs can be registered in Germany as small trucks...this leads to considerable lower taxes on the car than if registered as a regular car.

So basically you pay taxes as if you're driving a truck, but as the SUV does have no speed limit linked to its weight, as trucks in Germany ususally do (80km/h or approx. 50 miles/h), you can drive around like crazy with all the well-known and already-discussed-to-death consequences.

Now the supreme court of Bavaria decided in the case of a man who got stopped by police because he was driving 160km/h (ca. 100 miles/h), but tried to defend himself that he doesn't consider his SUV a truck...and he lost! The judges verdict was clear, the SUV is a truck and should be treated like one.

Consequence: SUV could get a speed limit on non-speed-limit German autobahns of 80 km/h or 50 miles/h, which would take out all the fun of driving one of these horsepower-rich machines!!

I have to say: Chapeau, Mssrs. Judges, a good idea and a logical one, too.


I know it's only VfB but I like it!
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1830 times:

I'm just amazed at how SUVs have become popular in Europe. 10 years ago, there were very few on the road - a few Jeep Cherokees, Range Rovers and the like. Now they are everywhere, especially since European manufacturers have gotten into the act. BMW, Mercedes, Opel, Porche and others now make them and of course the Japanese and American models are all here. Even pickup trucks are appearing in fairly large numbers.

For all of Europe's bitching in the past about American wastefulness, I think it is clear now that such wastefulness (in terms of getting a car bigger and more powerful than you really need) is a function of economic prosperity. People simply have the money to spend and don't mind spending it on something fun and prestigeous. Increasing the taxation on these beasts will knock out the bottom of the market (those people who could barely afford an SUV before), but will not dissuade the more comfortable folks - in fact, the exclusivity might become its own motivation.

And you cannot blame the manufacturers for this trend - they simply build what the customers want.

Charles


User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 2, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1827 times:

I don't blame manufacturers, but I admit: It makes me nervous when SUV owners pay less taxes than the average guy driving a smaller/lighter car that does not damage the streets/environment etc. as much as an SUV.
And for clarifying this, I thank the judges.

And if they really start treating SUV as trucks in the road as far as speed limit is concerned, the fun will be gone. And yes, the idea of a 2.5 ton vehicle running at over 100 miles/h on the autobahn makes me somewhat nervous, too.



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29795 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1822 times:

Many of the grandfathers of the modern SUV, such as the Range Rover, and the G-Wagon came from Europe.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7951 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks ago) and read 1792 times:

That's right, L-188 and many of the modern SUV still come frome Europe. Manufacturers here claim, their cars would burn less fuel than their American counterparts but that's all stupid and embarassing talk.
Anyway, no one here blamed Americans for being the only nation ruining the environment - just in case you got the wrong idea ...

Having said that, the automobile, todays biggest polluter, is a European/German invention. The Bible is wrong here: " ... und sie fuhren fort" ".... and they drove a Ford." Haha, must have been a Daimler instead!

NoUFO



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4856 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1777 times:

Uhm, the judge decided that a Mercedes Sprinter is not a car but rather a little truck. Now a Sprinter is hardly a SUV. Though, I'm in favor of having a general speed limit for transporters like the Sprinter, them doing 160-170 makes me nervous. Btw, I don't really see too many SUVs on the streets here. Sure, the Touareg is quite popular, so is the X5, but compared with the number of sedans they are as rate as sports cars.

User currently offlineSkystar From Australia, joined Jan 2000, 1363 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1768 times:

"People simply have the money to spend and don't mind spending it on something fun and prestigeous."

Err, given that 98% of SUV owners don't even take the vehicles offroad, what's more fun about an SUV over a conventional car, given that their dynamics are poorer.

One problem in Australia is that 4WD vehicles over a certain ground clearance pay lower tariffs at 5%, instead of 15% for other cars - there is no justification for this.


User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 7, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1753 times:

Racko: Correct but please note that many SUV (of the few that exist here, that is), are registered as light trucks in terms of tax law, and said verdict of the Bavarian Supreme Court can trigger a change either in tax law or in other laws that regulate the handling of a SUV. Either high taxes or low speed limit, it's as easy as that!...and the latter solution would really spoil the fun for SUV owners!!


I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16857 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1749 times:

Are the X5s sold in Europe built at the BMW plant in South Carolina that makes the X5s for the US market, it would be nice to actualy export a BMW for a change Big grin

In the US SUVs get breaks on emissions and other items such as taxes registration etc because they were intended for "commercial" use, the Government relaxed the rules on SUVs to encourage small business owners to purchase the vehicles. However the vehicles caught on like crazy, however I think the popularity of the SUV has more to do with :

Safety factor (it's safer to be in an SUV in a crash, except SUV roll overs).

And status, they are big and expensive.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineSonic From Lithuania, joined Jan 2000, 1670 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1746 times:

In Lithuania SUVs are more expensive than normal cars because of higher insurance taxes and also in most cases bigger fuel burning. Speed limit is the same as to other cars (Highways - 130 km/h, Mainroads - 110 km/h, Roads - 90 km/h, City limits - 60 km/h (lowered to 50 now))

User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7951 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1739 times:

Andreas, I think from now on, people will register their SUV as regular cars and pay higher taxes. This will "only" end misuse of tax law rather than keeping people from buying SUV.

Now for something completely different: Could you please all join me in proclaiming that a Kilzer Landy 90 Convertible is no SUV and, while you are at it, stress that it's actually a unusual and nice and environmentally friendly (8l/100 km or so) car? Thank you.




I'd like a different color and no winch, though ...



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 11, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1729 times:

That's why I put a question mark behind the topic!

8l or so per 100km? What does that "or so" mean...8l per 10km or 8l per 100km when the car is towed off...or did you just forget the 2 in front of the 8? Does that read V8 on the front right side?
While I'm at it, no it's not a SUV, it's clearly a Gelaendewagen, everybody can see that, no? Oh and it's definitely a car with UNUSUALly high consumption and a nice blue colour and environment-friendly...as long as it is parked!

btw: Did you ever try a Tartufo with cherry liquor at caffe e gelate? WOW!!!



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7951 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1718 times:

Ah yes, this little question mark ...
No, 8l to 9l per 100 km as long as it is no V8 but rather a Ford 5 cylinder diesel engine, which is slightly underpowered. So what? The invention of planes and high speed trains lies a while back, and I'm not looking forward to cruising a Landy up and down our Autobahn Republic. And seriously, the Landy 90, with its body partially made of aluminum, doesn't burn more fuel than the average car.

Two friends from Freiburg stayed for a week, and at Potsdamer Platz I tried to push them upstairs to have a seat at Cafe e Gelato, but as uneducated as they sometimes can be, they refused to let the Lord speak to them.
Tartufo with cherry liquor, you said? Sounds unfamiliar ... do they pour that liquor over the tartufo or did you have a glass of liquor with your tartufo? Big grin



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 13, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1660 times:

Ok, modern Diesel technology, then I take it back.
I've driven an A6 2.5 TDI Quattro recently and I pushed it to the limit, around 1000km during a weekend, aircon going fullblast with nearly 40 Celsius outside, CD-Hifi going fullblast... and still, consumption was around 10 liters, now that is absolutely great, btw that engine would be "voll krass korrekt" in your little blue car.


The Tartufo was literally drowned in cherry liquor...you'll find it in the menu on the page opposite the world-famous Copa Esclusiva!!
I never "drink" liquor, that's for little kids who don't like the taste of alcohol Big grin

As for your friends: Heathens are everywhere... next time, use violence, in the end they'll kiss your feet for converting them to the one real paradise!!



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8702 posts, RR: 43
Reply 14, posted (10 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1634 times:

"I've driven an A6 2.5 TDI Quattro recently"

And you're such an arse!

































And I'm entirely jealous!  Big thumbs up Anyway, shouldn't complain... a Passat with 130 hp TDI is also very nice.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
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