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Bush's Policy Closing Clinics In Africa  
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1309 times:

Ah, yes, another "victory" for Conservatives in the U.S., although sounds like people in Africa are the losers.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030924/ts_nm/health_gag_dc_7

Study: U.S. Abortion Policy Closes African Clinics
Wed Sep 24, 4:19 PM ET Add Top Stories - Reuters to My Yahoo!


By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Correspondent

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Bush (news - web sites)'s anti-abortion policy has forced family planning clinics in poor countries to close, leaving some communities without any healthcare, according to a report issued Wednesday.

Even faith-based clinics that promote abstinence -- in line with White House policy -- have had to close, according to organizers.

Under the policy, known as the Mexico City rule by supporters and the Global Gag rule by opponents, foreign family planning agencies cannot receive U.S. funds if they provide abortion services or lobby to make or keep abortion legal in their own country.

A survey of Ethiopia, Kenya, Romania and Zambia by Population Action International and the Planned Parenthood (news - web sites) Federation of America showed the rule had forced clinics to close and left many men and women without access to contraceptives that could prevent both unwanted pregnancies and AIDS (news - web sites).

"You cannot separate HIV (news - web sites)/AIDS, reproductive health and abortion," said Hillary Fyfe, who heads the Family Life Movement of Zambia, a faith-based group working with adolescents on sex education.

While her group does not promote abortion or even condom use, it does talk about the possibility, and that was enough to lose U.S. funding, Fyfe said. Three clinics in Lusaka closed this year.

"We taught natural family planning and abstinence until marriage," Fyfe said in an interview. Now her group will be unable to holds its workshops unless they can find alternative funding, Fyfe said.

The same is happening in several countries, according to the report.

"Health services have been scaled back and closings of reproductive health clinics have left some communities with no healthcare provider," the group wrote in a statement.


HURTING AIDS EFFORTS

The policy has also hurt AIDS prevention efforts, said the group, which published the findings on the Internet at www.globalgagrule.org.

As one of his first acts in office in 2001, Bush reinstated the rule that former President Bill Clinton (news - web sites), a Democrat, had lifted. The rule was originally imposed in 1984 by President Ronald Reagan (news - web sites) at a Mexico City conference.

Last month Bush ordered the State Department to strengthen the rule by withholding U.S. family planning help from overseas groups that promote or perform abortions with their own money.

Five family planning clinics run by nongovernmental organizations have closed in Kenya because they refused the restrictions and lost funding from the U.S. Agency for International development, the report said.

"As a result, they are prevented from participating in a large-scale integrated health care program funder by the U.S. Agency for International Development, which curtails the effectiveness and reach of the program," the report reads.

In Kenya's Mathare Valley, a family planning clinic closed, leaving 300,000 people with no healthcare services. "And there is no other family planning or reproductive health clinic nearby," the report said.

In Romania, women may be more likely to get abortions, not fewer, because the rule has meant more women cannot get any information on contraceptives that can prevent unwanted pregnancies, the report said.

"This is the real face of Bush's compassionate conservatism -- a war on the world's most vulnerable women and children, who bear the brunt of Bush's obsession with appeasing his domestic political base," Planned Parenthood's Gloria Feldt said in a statement.

But White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan said the policy only affected family planning clinics, not general health clinics.

"The president had just unveiled a $15 billion program to address the biggest healthcare crisis facing Africa, which is AIDS," she said in a telephone interview. "Any organization that wants to participate in delivering healthcare services relating to AIDS can do so."
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Yes, you can join, just as so we can shove our "values" down your throat in the process. So compassionate.

26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyVirgin744 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1313 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1295 times:

I just think its rediculous that from now on every president that comes into office will change this policy based on his/her belief. All of these clinics now have to pay attention American politics I suppose.


Sometimes I go about in pity for myself and all the while a great wind carries me across the sky.
User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 23
Reply 2, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1292 times:

Why should my tax dollars be shipped over to Africa in order to kill unborn children? Maybe if people would stop getting pregnant over and over we wouldn't even have to hear about this. Besides, sending billions every year to Africa is nothing more than political pandering to various interest groups.


"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 3, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1282 times:

I fully agree with B757300.

It's high time for Africans to solve African problems.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1273 times:

Why should my tax dollars be shipped over to Africa in order to kill unborn children?

I guess letting others suffer from AID and other diseases, because they can't find an open clinic anymore is OK, simply to keep your "values" on abortion, B757300? What is the greater evil-abortions in an over-populated area, of denying basic healthcare to thousands upon thousdands of people because of the intrastringence of people like you?

And gee, Yyz717, amazing you agree with B757300. Stop the presses. You two certinly have no compassion in your souls, that's for sure. So let thousands of Africans die, you're conscience-what little you have is clear. You're both pathetic.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 5, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1263 times:

You two certinly have no compassion in your souls, that's for sure.

Actually, we are showing concern Alpha. Africa needs to stand on its own feet and cannot until the ruinous foreign aid stops. It's called tough love.

B757300 and I are merely showing a difference of opinion to you. Why do you immediately take the low road and start with the insults on our character?  Insane

How does the following contribute to this thread:
You're both pathetic.

Let's discuss this as adults. NO insults.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1254 times:

Insults? I thought I was telling the truth? You guys just assume let all those people die, now that these clinics are closed? "Pathetic" wasn't meant as an insult, Yyz717, it was meant as a description to how utterly unfeeling, uncaring and unhuman you both are.

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1255 times:

it was meant as a description to how utterly unfeeling, uncaring and unhuman you both are.

 Insane There you go again. Why the personal insults and attacks? Why can't you discuss the issue, instead of hurling stuff like this?

Maybe, I think there would be fewer deaths over the long term if Africa had to stand on its own feet now.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlinePacificjourney From New Zealand, joined Jul 2001, 2727 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1233 times:

Yet again the outraged tax payers weigh in with their well thought out arguements.

Of course it would be interesting to know just how much taxes students such as B757300 pay or have ever payed and how much taxes they have consumed opr consume right now (subsidised education anyone ?).

Apparently some peoples problems deserve attention and others can just die quietly please.



" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1235 times:

Granting all the abortions African women can physically stand will not help the AIDS crisis. Getting them and the men to stop fu&%ing everyone they meet will be much more constructive. Abortion is a side issue.

Charles


User currently offlineMxCtrlr From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2485 posts, RR: 36
Reply 10, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1223 times:

Alpha1,

In your glee to bash Bush with anything you can find, you seem to have neglected a VERY important part of this whole mess.

As stated above by B757300 and others, why the hell are US Taxpayer dollars going to fund any clinics in Africa when we have children living in this country that go to bed hungry every night, cannot afford to go to a doctor, etc? If our own house was in order (and I'm certain you'll twist this arguement so that you can once again blast Bush for all of the ills in the world), THEN I could see us reaching out to other countries, but it isn't and we shouldn't be sending ANY money overseas - Whether the President was Clinton, Bush or anybody else! (Of course, if this was Clinton, THEN it would be prefectly OK with you).

I am glad for you Alpha1, that you apparently are well-off enough that you do not have to worry about this but there are hundreds of thousands of your own countrymen and women who are not so well off. Think they give a damn if a clinic in Africa loses its funding? Think they would rather see that funding spent here? On fellow Americans? First? They certainly would. Pray to whatever being you believe in that you never find yourself in that kind of predicament. It is a difficult choice to have to choose which child gets to go to the doctor this month because that's all your company insurance, and what's left of your paycheck, will allow. It's made even more difficult when your own government will not help you out but sends millions of dollars overseas to help out Africa, Isreal and every other third-world country that needs it (which, by most accounts, only a fraction of those funds actually make it to their intended target).

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K.  Smokin cool



DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
User currently offlineBobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1211 times:

I'm not going to criticise this. Whatever the evils of conditional aid, it's much better than no aid at all.

However, if you really think that funding is generous, compare your foreign humanitarian aid (as a % of GDP) to the aid given by other affluent countries.



Cunning linguist
User currently offlineMxCtrlr From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2485 posts, RR: 36
Reply 12, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1186 times:

However, if you really think that funding is generous, compare your foreign humanitarian aid (as a % of GDP) to the aid given by other affluent countries.

And how many of those "other affluent countries" have socialized medicine and programs to properly care for their own people? Probably the majority of them but not the good old USA! Here we are left to deal with it on our own (as Medicare/Medicaid pay for almost nothing but routine check-ups). Try getting treatment for a catastrophic illness such as cancer from Medicare/Medicaid! Good Luck!

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K.  Smokin cool



DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
User currently offlineBen From Switzerland, joined Aug 1999, 1391 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1175 times:

It's high time for Africans to solve African problems.

..and we will keep plundering their natural resources, propping up dictators 'sympathetic' to our cause, and shafting them with our western-world farm subsidies.

Cool.


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13044 posts, RR: 78
Reply 14, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1154 times:

Yeah go ahead, help create more failed states, which in the past have been havens for terrorists, for a variety of reasons.
What goes around comes around.


User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3333 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1145 times:

Why should my tax dollars be shipped over to Africa in order to kill unborn children? Maybe if people would stop getting pregnant over and over we wouldn't even have to hear about this. Besides, sending billions every year to Africa is nothing more than political pandering to various interest groups.

Most of the nations is Africa do not have the resources to educate the people about birth control, may it be because of war, bad leadership, exploitation etc. If we could assist them in reaching a suitable level of education and development. I am pretty sure that the population growth will decrease rapidly. Ironically what Bush is asking for Iraq is much more than is needed to actually feed and educate people in Africa to a suitable level so this population expansion can be controlled.




Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1145 times:

and we will keep plundering their natural resources

Any natural resources from Africa are purchased. What Africa does with the proceeds is up to them. Nigeria has "lost" an estimated $100B in oil revenue due to corruption; Zambia has lost $B's due in copper revenue due to corruption.

Ultimately, Africa much solve its own problems.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1096 times:

Are the people who say that we (the developed countries) should take a more direct role in solving Africa's problems the same people who complain about doing exactly that in Iraq?

Just wondering...

Charles


User currently offlineMbmbos From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1088 times:

"Getting them and the men to stop fu&%ing everyone they meet will be much more constructive."

So now you're telling us that African men and women are sexually promiscuous? Care to back that up?

That's an outrageously offensive remark, CFalk!


User currently offlineJAL777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1084 times:

The African promiscuity arguement is a myth and has no basis.

User currently offlineCptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3219 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1075 times:

When "we" (the U.S.) sends money to other nations for help, you are damn right it should be conditional. This is the same endless crap; the U.S. is getting bitched at because it's helping other nations. Not good enough! Just send the money without conditions or qualifications! Are you friggin' serious?

Try this sophomoric analogy (it might even help some people on this forum to think); go to your bank for money on a new car, and use half the money to go out drinking and the other half to buy a used clunker. Present THAT clunker title to your money-man in good faith and see the reaction.

I know this sounds very simplistic, and I personally would opt out of foreign aid to a large degree (like I said, we try to help but just get bitched at all the time), but irrespective of the misguided opinions about "impiralist" adventures, the US is a very compassionate collection of peoples who are largely in support of helping others. And yes, disagree with terms and conditions if you will , but that's the way it is and that's the way it should be...Jack



all best; jack
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13044 posts, RR: 78
Reply 22, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1062 times:

Aid is one thing, distorting to fit the seemingly puritan nature of some domestic US politics is quite another.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1050 times:

Aid is one thing, distorting to fit the seemingly puritan nature of some domestic US politics is quite another.

Ummm...no, it's not. The US has the absolute right to put conditions on its aid, as Cptkrell mentioned.

Very few things in life are free, although 3rd world aid seems to be one of them. Well, it needs to change. Africa has been a sinkhole for Western aid for far too long. Let them sink or swim (like the rest of us have to).










Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineJA54123 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 137 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1040 times:

If they want our money then they have to follow our rules, it's that simple. Plus if we want to control disease, then we need to find a cure not just tell people to not screw, cause that won't happen. Also, as far as birth control I have a friend that her company has a new technique that consists of radioactive pellets inserted into the Fallopian tubes that cause them to scar shut and prevent pregnancy from then on, and it isn't reversible and it can be done as an office procedure by nurse practitioners. Now that would be a solution instead of the abortions that cost much more and are unnecessary and irresponsible in most cases.


You wouldn't understand, it's a Texas Thang!
25 Cptkrell : Yikes! Even I must say, JA54123, that permanent sterilization would never be considered. Furthermore, it would prevent the spread of AIDS only to new
26 Airplanetire : I remember reading an article a few months ago pretty much saying the same thing and it deeply bothers me. School sex education programs that teach ab
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