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Rummy Wants "New Agency"  
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 1318 times:

But God, this guy needs some help.

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20031022050909990002&_mpc=news%2e4

Rumsfeld Suggests New Agency for 'War of Ideas'



Getty Images
Donald Rumsfeld

WASHINGTON (Oct. 24) - Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said in an interview published on Friday that the United States needs to sell its message more effectively and that a new agency would help fight a "war of ideas" against international terrorism.

"We are in a war of ideas, as well as a global war on terror. And the ideas are important and they need to be marshaled, and they need to be communicated in ways that are persuasive to the listeners," Rumsfeld said in a wide-ranging interview with The Washington Times.

"The overwhelming majority of the people of all religions don't believe in terrorism. They don't believe in running around killing innocent men, women and children. And we need more people standing up and saying that in the world, not just us," Rumsfeld was quoted as saying.

The Washington Times said Rumsfeld suggested a "21st-century information agency in the government" to help in the international battle of ideas and to limit the teaching of terrorism and extremism.

Commenting on a recent memo sent to his senior staff and disclosed by USA Today, Rumsfeld said the memo was intended to "inject a sense of urgency" into top military leadership.

Rumsfeld was cited as saying that his goal was to inspire troops and defense officials to consider what is lacking. He said he hopes they will start asking "Are there things we aren't doing that we might be doing?"

Rumsfeld also told the newspaper that he is under no pressure from the White House to fire a senior Pentagon official over controversial remarks about Islam.

Army Lt. Gen. William Boykin, an evangelical Christian, has painted the U.S. war on terrorism as a showdown with "Satan," saying Islamic radicals wanted to destroy America "because we're a Christian nation."

President Bush has distanced himself from Boykin's remarks saying the general "didn't reflect my opinion." Boykin is deputy undersecretary of defense for intelligence and war-fighting support.

At Boykin's request, the Defense Department's inspector general's office is examining the propriety of speeches he gave at churches and prayer breakfasts while in uniform.

Asked what would be necessary to justify any disciplinary action against Boykin, Rumsfeld told The Washington Times: "There's all kinds of rules and regulations and requirements. People will look at them and they'll discuss those and then one will compare his circumstance and those rules and regulations."
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Maybe we could call it the Ministry of Propoganda, eh Rummy?


30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 1288 times:

Maybe we could call it the Ministry of Propoganda, eh Rummy?

Have you ever heard of Public Relations, both in the corporate world and in government? Of course the more cynical will call that propaganda as well. I think what Rumsfeld is talking about is simply marshalling all the government spokesmen and PR guys and getting them to meet together on a regualr basis for "choir practice". i.e. agreeing on what to say and how to say it.

Charles


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 1258 times:

Have you ever heard of Public Relations, both in the corporate world and in government?

We have Press Secretaries to do that, Charles, all over the Federal Government. We don't need another bureaucracy just to put out propaganda, seems to me, especially the kind Rummy wants put out.


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week ago) and read 1239 times:

We have Press Secretaries to do that, Charles, all over the Federal Government.

That's the point, Alpha. You have all these people talking to the press in a completely disorganized manner. In a private corporation, this would be (and always has been) completely unacceptable. Why should it be different for government?

If there was only a single source available to the press, we would more likely know who leaked that CIA agent's name.

I'm not necessarily agreeing with the proposal - you're right in one sense, that this would create a new self-perpetuating bureaucracy. But the concept does have a certain merit.

Charles


User currently offlinePacificjourney From New Zealand, joined Jul 2001, 2734 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1224 times:

The boss could be known as 'The Sultan of Spin'.


" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1226 times:

Some of our resident ANET freaks could certainly be gainfully employed in Rummy's Ministry of Propaganda. After all posts by members like KROC, 757300 etc are just a like they are coming from Herr Goebbels himself! Rumsfeld would be very proud indeed!

-Roy


User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 6, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1223 times:

While I am not a Rummy fan, there is a very strong element of truth within it.

He is correct that it would go a long way to stop terrorism and other problems if more people of influence were more vocal against it. I'll give you an example:

The majority of muslims that speak out against the extra security screening at airports blame the US, and Blame good 'ole George for their sufference, but never do they go back to source and blame the 19 men that caused the reason for the security.

The US government may react badly in some instances with things like the TSA, but the truth is, there were reactionary measures to a brutal attack. Who is to blame for this extra security ?

Bush ? I think not, Atta...most likely


User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1207 times:

I don't think Rumsfeld really gives enough info to declare if this is PR or propaganda. It almost sounds like he's thinking out loud rather than actually proposing something. Maybe he should've called it a 'committee' rather than an 'agency'. But Charles is right about the corporate world and I'm kind of surprised there isn't already a mechanism like this in the government.


"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8171 posts, RR: 54
Reply 8, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1188 times:

This just shows how out of touch Rummy et al are with reality. Those 19 guys didn't fly planes into buildings and lose their own lives in the process cos the US isn't sold properly as a product overseas. It's cos of US bases in Saudi, propping up corrupt and oppressive regimes (Egypt, Saudi again, Pakistan), and of course encouraging Israel to possess WMDs while starving Iraq and Iran for identical pursuits; and of course encouraging Israel to occupy the West Bank and Gaza. Change these and he won't need a Ministry Of Propaganda. Don't address them and a Ministry Of Propaganda won't make a blind bit of difference, the terrorists will keep attacking and keep multiplying. It's not complicated.


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineCancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (11 years 1 month 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1164 times:

wow rummsfeld! simply genious! great way to waste more taxpayer money!  Pissed  Pissed  Pissed


"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1149 times:

This is doubleplusgood news.

User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1145 times:

You're getting your undies in a bind over nothing. I still think it was more of an off-the-cuff observation that will not amount to anything. Just relax until the remote possibility that it actually gets implemented happens. R-E-L-A-X.


"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineAirplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1141 times:

Rummy is showing just how ignorant he is by associating terrorism with religion. Is he implying that persons who subscribe to Christianity aren't capable of terrorism? How about atheists?

I would suggest that ANYONE of ANY religion would lash out in ways that could be described as "terrorism" if they were as desperate as some groups feel these days. The Palestinians in Israel are a good example.


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1140 times:

I agree JetService, but one thing you can't go doing, when you work for the President of the United States, is to freelance remarks in front of reporters. That makes the President's job, already hard enough, doubly hard when idiots like Rumsfeld can't keep his mouth shut. Such statements, if they're to be made, should come from President Bush, if at all, not a subordinate.

Unfortunately, Rummy seems to have diarrhea of the mouth far to often.


User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1133 times:

I really can't argue with that Alpha 1. Thinking outloud isn't usually prudent at that level. Ironically, it almost makes his point more valid.


"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlinePetertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3389 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1132 times:

Hasn't FOX been doing enough to sell the governments views? Big grin


Attamottamotta!
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1135 times:

I have to disagree with you, JetService, about making it more valid. What I find ironic is that this Republican Administration, that has already create two new bureaucracies in the last two years-Homeland Security and the TSA, now has someone championing the cause of creating yet another layer of bureaucracy.

Isn't that what Republicans always claim that Dems want to do-increase the size of the government? And here we have the GOP overseeing a huge expansion of bureaucracy and Federal authority over our lives. THAT'S what is deliciously ironic.  Smile


User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1124 times:

Yes, there is a degree of irony there; that's for sure. But after the attacks, all bets were off. I'm not saying everything's perfect, but they kind of have an excuse.


"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1123 times:

Maybe they were just looking for the excuse, JetService.  Smile

User currently offlineCaptainStabbin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (11 years 1 month 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1106 times:

Rummy is showing just how ignorant he is by associating terrorism with religion. Is he implying that persons who subscribe to Christianity aren't capable of terrorism? How about atheists?

I would suggest that ANYONE of ANY religion would lash out in ways that could be described as "terrorism" if they were as desperate as some groups feel these days. The Palestinians in Israel are a good example.


Nice to see you have your old name back.

The Palestinian/Israeli example you give is absolutely poor and slows little knowledge of the situation and terrorism in general. I can't think of one terrorist event that happened there that was not religiously motivated. Hamas, the Fatah Movement and just about every other Palestinian terrorist group are all Islamic based and are outstanding examples religious terrorism.

It's also interesting that Palestinian and most Arab Christians in general have absolutely no problem with Israel or Jews. If they have beefs with anyone, it’s the Muslims.

Hamas et all's goal is not to set up a Palestinian homeland, but to drive out the Jews and set up their own Islamic religious state between Jordan and Egypt. They make no attempt to hide this. The media and most “activists” just fail to latch on or are just too ignorant.

Today, most terrorism is religiously or ideologically rooted and has little to do with "desperation". You never hear about desperate and poor people of the favelas in Brazil or the slums of Chinese cities strapping themselves with bombs to blow up innocent people in crowded markets. They’re no less desperate that those Palestinians or Arabs.


User currently offlineAirplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (11 years 1 month 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1086 times:

The Palestinian/Israeli example you give is absolutely poor and slows little knowledge of the situation and terrorism in general. I can't think of one terrorist event that happened there that was not religiously motivated.

I disagree. When people act out, they tend to act out in a way that reflects thier culture. If religion plays a large part in their culture, then it will play a big part in their response to desperation.

If you play soccer with your church group does that define religiously motivated sports? I didn't think so.

As far as the poor people of the favelas, if you don't think they respond to desperation in quite violent ways, I suggest you inform yourself.

It's also interesting that Palestinian and most Arab Christians in general have absolutely no problem with Israel or Jews. If they have beefs with anyone, it’s the Muslims.

Great generalization....not very constructive or accurate. You're implying that Christians aren't as prone to terrorism as Muslims. You should visit Northern Ireland sometime....


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40035 posts, RR: 74
Reply 21, posted (11 years 1 month 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1077 times:

Sounds more like 'big government' to me.  Confused


Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8341 posts, RR: 23
Reply 22, posted (11 years 1 month 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1072 times:

wow rummsfeld! simply genious! great way to waste more taxpayer money!

Why do you care? You aren't losing a cent!



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8508 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (11 years 1 month 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1062 times:

The LAST thing we need is another government agency to waste taxpayers money.

Obviously, Alpha 1, the GOP is NOT living up to what should be a fiscally conservative administration. Sometmes there's hardly a difference between the Demipulicans and the Repocrats.


User currently offlineCaptainStabbin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (11 years 1 month 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1053 times:

Airplay, the next time you respond, I ask that you read what I wrote more carefully. If you’re incapable of this, don’t bother to reply. You have a tendency to put words into people’s mouths. Not once did I make a “generalization” that only Muslims are capable of religious terrorism. The Northern Ireland (ever been there?) example you give proves this. I merely pointed out an interesting fact that Christian Arabs have no qualms with Jews or Israel. I don’t see how you could have thought otherwise from what I wrote. Also, are they not part of Arab or Palestinian culture?

Speaking of “generalizations”, careful with the accusations you throw at others.

As for favelas, my girlfriend is from Brazil (again, have you ever been there?). I know damn well how violent it is there (and again, please point out where I said otherwise), but it is not terrorism. You “generalized” that desperation causes terrorism. Well, favelas in Sao Paulo are full of very desperate and destitute people, but they do not commit terrorism. Drug-related murders? Sure! Sampa has over 11,000 of them each year, but it is not terrorism.

I still believe that the vast majority of terrorism today is ideologically or religiously (a form of ideology) driven. It doesn’t matter what part of the world it is, there is some form of ideology driving these groups – from the communists in Latin America to the Islamic radicals in Southeast Asia, Northern Africa and the Middle-East to the Catholics in Northern Ireland (since “politically correct” ilk like you, Airplay, must be “all-inclusive”).





[Edited 2003-10-28 00:16:10]

25 Airplay : Airplay, the next time you respond, I ask that you read what I wrote more carefully. Good advise. Perhaps if you heeded your own words you might not h
26 CaptainStabbin : Yet more self-aggrandizing, hypocritical and paranoid ramble. You really think you’re worthy of being “zeroed in” on? C’mon, what makes you th
27 Alpha 1 : It seems more and more like Rummy could be on his way out. He's done nothing but to infuriate and to rub people the wrong way since day 1, and now he'
28 Airplay : CaptainStabbin, Try to get a different hobby. This flamebaiting thing is getting old...
29 N863DA : 777236ER said it best; doubleplusgood. Maybe we could call it the Ministry of Truth, and then shorten it, to Minitru, for short? This will prevent pot
30 Captainstabbin : And look who's talking about flaimbait?You wrote the book! If you have a problem with the way I respond to you, you are more than welcome to discuss i
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